Thai Authorities Will Not Cooperate .....

[aaaaaa]

Thailand's struggle to regain its credibility

Kavi Chongkittavorn

December 25, 2006

... there have been allegations of misuse of funds contributed by EU citizens to help tsunami victims. Seven envoys from Nordic countries plus the US, UK and France have submitted a joint demarche to the Foreign Ministry and Royal Thai Police calling for an investigation into the allegations. Never before have so many envoys got together and presented a joint complaint such as this....

... after two years, these countries wanted to see Thai officials held responsible for their actions. Many people, especially officials, got rich, but very few people have taken responsibility and been accountable for their work. Now these embassies are demanding tangible results, as they have to be accountable to their citizens. They want proper closure, something which the Thai government cannot understand or show any sensitivity towards....

.... What has suffered most damage is the creditability of the Royal Thai Police. These envoys have jointly asked the Thai government to set up an independent auditor to properly document how the relief money was spent. The US government is willing to pay for the expense. Of course, this is a big problem because the Thai authorities will not cooperate as it involves many senior officials and agencies.

It is interesting to see the developement and outcome of this. Will US and other envoys persist in their request?

more interestingly - will Thai government make a big step to expose their corrupted officials?

any bets?

or simply discount it to famous formula TIT ?

Edited December 25, 2006 by aaaaaa

[jasreeve17]

Thailand's struggle to regain its credibility

Kavi Chongkittavorn

December 25, 2006

... there have been allegations of misuse of funds contributed by EU citizens to help tsunami victims. Seven envoys from Nordic countries plus the US, UK and France have submitted a joint demarche to the Foreign Ministry and Royal Thai Police calling for an investigation into the allegations. Never before have so many envoys got together and presented a joint complaint such as this....

... after two years, these countries wanted to see Thai officials held responsible for their actions. Many people, especially officials, got rich, but very few people have taken responsibility and been accountable for their work. Now these embassies are demanding tangible results, as they have to be accountable to their citizens. They want proper closure, something which the Thai government cannot understand or show any sensitivity towards....

.... What has suffered most damage is the creditability of the Royal Thai Police. These envoys have jointly asked the Thai government to set up an independent auditor to properly document how the relief money was spent. The US government is willing to pay for the expense. Of course, this is a big problem because the Thai authorities will not cooperate as it involves many senior officials and agencies.

It is interesting to see the developement and outcome of this. Will US and other envoys persist in their request?

more interestingly - will Thai government make a big step to expose their corrupted officials?

any bets?

or simply discount it to famous formula TIT ?

I'll take your bet (on any odds) that nobody will be found accountable other than "burmese migrant workers".

[LaoPo]

Anybody could have predicted this Headline when the first donations started pouring in.

Stealing donations from a disaster fund.

Can they get any lower?

...and the lesson is.... Don't help, since the money just gets stolen.

I disagree. The donating countries should control the money themselves with the help of local people from organizations like the Red Cross a.o.

LP

[Aussietraveller]

It is sad to hear of this, but it should come as no surprise to anyone.

It was totally forseeable.

There are several reports floating about that keep mentioning the local law enforcement officials will look into it.

I am sure that will help.

It is not only Thailand that is being asked where the money has gone though.

Indonesia has a similar system of governance by Government officials. They are being asked the same questions i believe, with a similar response.

The can send an letter out with the results of the investigation.

It will read: Mai Pen Rai.....

[MiG16]

I agree with LaoPo that not helping is not really the solution. well ofcourse it is up to individuals whether they decide to or not. but my point is, the money from foreign donors CAN be managed well given the right framework and strict guidelines.

the other challenge would be ofcourse maintaining the administrative costs to a minimal.

there are some organisations who take that seriously and manage the funds properly.

[aaaaaa]

It is not only Thailand that is being asked where the money has gone though.

Indonesia has a similar system of governance by Government officials. They are being asked the same questions i believe, with a similar response.

THAT is very true!

and I think Thailand or Indonesia are neither the biggest money-squandereres:

Katrina fraud likely to balloon past $1B

By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer

Mon Dec 25, 5:17 PM ET

WASHINGTON - The tally for Hurricane Katrina waste could top $2 billion next year because half of the lucrative government contracts valued at $500,000 or greater for cleanup work are being awarded without little competition.

Federal investigators have already determined the Bush administration squandered $1 billion on fraudulent disaster aid to individuals after the 2005 storm. Now they are shifting their attention to the multimillion dollar contracts to politically connected firms that critics have long said are a prime area for abuse.

In January, investigators will release the first of several audits examining more than $12 billion in Katrina contracts. The charges range from political favoritism to limited opportunities for small and minority-owned firms, which initially got only 1.5 percent of the total work.

"Based on their track record, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw another billion more in waste," said Clark Kent Ervin, the Homeland Security Department's inspector general from 2003-2004. "I don't think sufficient progress has been made."

..............

Earlier this month, the Government Accountability Office said its initial estimate of $1 billion in disaster aid waste was "likely understated," citing continuing problems in which FEMA doled out tens of millions of dollars in fraudulent housing assistance.

so, if the leading nation on the globe does this and to such extent to its own people - then what to expect from such 3rd world country (which certainly it remains) as Thailand? I think whatever Thai officials has managed to steal - is a drop in the sea, comparing to those huge numbers!

yeah, I do not justify neither Thai thieves nor American - just making a point that you are right saying:

.... it is not only Thailand.....

[aqua4]

It is not only Thailand that is being asked where the money has gone though.

Indonesia has a similar system of governance by Government officials. They are being asked the same questions i believe, with a similar response.

THAT is very true!

and I think Thailand or Indonesia are neither the biggest money-squandereres:

I think the point is that this was money given to foreign governments that made its way elsewhere. Where is the question. Into the pockets of corrupt officials or into the pockets of terrorist organizations.

If we changed the question a bit. Would you be angry if your wife squanders your money or if your neighbor squanders your money? You would be angry at both, but with whom would you be more angry?

Next time if help is needed, those very people who you tell to bugger off, you might need their help again.

Edited December 27, 2006 by aqua4

[junkofdavid2]

It's so easy for the government to respond to the demand.

They just have to "blame it" on the former govt and Thaksin. Period. Case closed.

... and then walk away smiling

Edited December 27, 2006 by junkofdavid2

[kayo]

It will be put off and delayed and eventually forgotten about...

What happens if the envoys come over to LOS?

our humble hosts will take them for a night out. Corrupt the diplomats a bit.

Everybody leaves happy and all questions remain unanswered

[aaaaaa]

It is not only Thailand that is being asked where the money has gone though.

Indonesia has a similar system of governance by Government officials. They are being asked the same questions i believe, with a similar response.

THAT is very true!

and I think Thailand or Indonesia are neither the biggest money-squandereres:

I think the point is that this was money given to foreign governments that made its way elsewhere. Where is the question. Into the pockets of corrupt officials or into the pockets of terrorist organizations.

If we changed the question a bit. Would you be angry if your wife squanders your money or if your neighbor squanders your money? You would be angry at both, but with whom would you be more angry?

Next time if help is needed, those very people who you tell to bugger off, you might need their help again.

I agree with you! I've merely commented on and given fresh reference about the single point made by Aussietraveller - that Thailand is not the only country ....

Edited December 27, 2006 by aaaaaa

[Plus]

I believe the official line is that those countries relied on rumors instead of asking Thai government for information. That means that now Europeans have to prove that the money was squandered. Thus the original plea to have independent audit is absurd and not worth answering as there's no proof that anything went wrong.

The police already formed their own commitee, and reported to the PM. Now they only need to approve the budget for investigation, I supppose.

[chuchok]

Anybody could have predicted this Headline when the first donations started pouring in.

Stealing donations from a disaster fund.

Can they get any lower?

...and the lesson is.... Don't help, since the money just gets stolen.

I disagree. The donating countries should control the money themselves with the help of local people from organizations like the Red Cross a.o.

LP

So they should control the DNA process? Did You bother to read the letter?

[Kaojai]

It is interesting to see the developement and outcome of this. Will US and other envoys persist in their request?

more interestingly - will Thai government make a big step to expose their corrupted officials?

any bets?

or simply discount it to famous formula TIT ?

To say that the original quote was taken out of context would be an understatement. The assumption of guilt and even the assumption of what was being discussed were, in typical Thai Visa message board style...all mindless rant and no concern with reality.

How about one of the leading paragraphs in the same article. This sure sounds like something to get worked up about.

Pretoria surprised the Thai government when it decided to withdraw from the international flower festival in Chiang Mai right after the coup. The Thai government expected the South Africans to be more sensitive towards the situation in Thailand than Western countries. Following a strong reaction from the Thai Embassy, Pretoria has become more friendly.

Anybody could have predicted this Headline...

It would probably help your argument, not to mention your predictions, if your knew to what the headline was referring.

[aaaaaa]

Kaojai,

let me also point you back to original article. among those 6 + 2 envoys who's filed the request for investigation there was no any mentioning of Pretoria - was it? Pretoria is mentioned in regard to some Flower Festival only, which is hardly, only perhaps very remotely, related to the main issue of money squandering after tsunami. and accordingly, Pretoria's changing their mind afte pressure from Thai side doesn't change anything about displeasure of those 6 + 2 envoys. it neither means that IF Pretoria has changed its attitude - all those others decided to withdraw their complain and investigation request.

I didn't take out of context anything else than related to the subject of this thread, which is same as the title of that article: that Thai autorities will not cooperate.

the reason I did it, because I'm not interested in Flower Festival in Chiang Mai or something alike as well as Pretoria's participation in it. my interest was and still is - IS the author of this article, Thai person himself, right or wrong in his conclusion about behavior of Thai government in response to those foreign envoys....

if there were any assumtpions - they were not mine but author's of that article, placed into the title of that article. I've only quoted it.