Trash on the road leads to death of German tourist in Samui

[claffey]

Another motorbike accident. Stay off them and rent or buy a car! Condolences to the deceased...

[ben2talk]

1 hour ago, twizzian said:

Can I ask why a full face helmet is more trouble than it's worth? as I'm about to buy another full face one and not sure the reasons not too.

I don't highly rate the safety aspect of the helmets I can afford here - and I don't worry much about protecting against hard knocks.

 

In the afternoon, it can be much hotter and wetter inside a full-face (more sweat) and I find they get pretty stinky after 6 months... they're also bigger and less practical if you want to throw it under your seat, and heavier if you try to carry it on your elbow.

 

Also, with a scooter, I'm mostly doing 0-90 and occasionally FAST cruising at 100-110. It's very rare that I get more than 60km/h on any roads where the traffic isn't all going the same way (like Bangna-Trad).  This is scootering, not motorcycling country.

 

Wearing an open face helmet helps me remember this, and encourages me to ride accordingly. Perhaps experience (1979-2017) has helped me be safer being more aware of my personal risk areas (not so much observation, more about confidence and speed).

 

With my GSX-R I rode faster - even in the city it's very easy to thrust up to 240km/h just going over a bridge - and so I thought more about the consequences... but the truth is that when accidents happened, they ended up being very minor. If they're not minor then the helmet isn't likely to make much difference anyway - but I wouldn't like to be wearing an open-face on a fast bike (anyone here put their head up above the screen travelling between 250-300km/h?)

 

With a GSX-R in the rain, you can keep your speed up 120 and twist your head to blow the water off the visor. This doesn't work on a scooter... 

 

 

 

I find the open face gives me better ability to ride in the rain - the visor is very long, and if I angle it 45 degrees I can get a clear view (not through the plastic) of the road ahead, the front edge of the visor being a good 8" in front. With the full face, it's mostly an option to have it either open or closed... not important if you're not worried about what happens when it rains (most folks just stop... I rarely ever do).

 

Very personal decision - I initially bought this helmet with a view that I could simply add a full-face when I could find one that fits properly.. and I never bothered. Instead, I bought two spare visors for this one (79 baht each). 

[ben2talk]

1 hour ago, claffey said:

Another motorbike accident. Stay off them and rent or buy a car! Condolences to the deceased...

ROFL - there are car accidents too. And taxis crash.

Actually this isn't a 'motorbike' accident... just a shopping bike/scooter, not the same animal. These machines are excellent if treated like shopping bikes.

This guy made a mistake and killed himself. If he does that with a car he'll probably kill you.

[ben2talk]

16 hours ago, Catkiwi said:

Indeed.....why do all stupid Farangs whom, in general, spout off about being from a 1st world country with modern traffic laws revert to behaving like the locals here. Of course you suffer head trauma if you dont wear a helmet. 

 

I hate to disappoint you. I never even scratched a helmet. Helmets offer 'potential' benefits for 'potential' circumstances. They also offer dangers. Wearing Thai helmets is not helpful in most respects, except for sun-protection/visor and police.

 

It's about HOW you ride, not what you wear. I also never wear boots or leather jeans or jackets... 

 

So yes, great to escape traffic laws and ride however I like and have more than enough skill to survive and enjoy it. 

 

This guy obviously didn't, so in his case it's bad news - and focus on the need to proceed with enough caution to get out of trouble. Don't start looking at HIM and generalising about 'people on bikes'.

[Shroud]

very sad, and very tragic. Rest in peace.

[Catkiwi]

2 hours ago, ben2talk said:

I hate to disappoint you. I never even scratched a helmet. Helmets offer 'potential' benefits for 'potential' circumstances. They also offer dangers. Wearing Thai helmets is not helpful in most respects, except for sun-protection/visor and police.

 

It's about HOW you ride, not what you wear. I also never wear boots or leather jeans or jackets... 

 

So yes, great to escape traffic laws and ride however I like and have more than enough skill to survive and enjoy it. 

 

This guy obviously didn't, so in his case it's bad news - and focus on the need to proceed with enough caution to get out of trouble. Don't start looking at HIM and generalising about 'people on bikes'.

Yawn...good luck to surviving if you ever do come off your bike. You are right though, I was generalising and shouldn't have. It would now appear that there is an exclusive club of like minded people that think the human body is tougher than cement. I have witnessed too many broken bodies, Thai & Farang, on the roads here, to be able to agree.

[ben2talk]

5 hours ago, Catkiwi said:

Yawn...good luck to surviving if you ever do come off your bike. You are right though, I was generalising and shouldn't have. It would now appear that there is an exclusive club of like minded people that think the human body is tougher than cement. I have witnessed too many broken bodies, Thai & Farang, on the roads here, to be able to agree.

Most of the accidents we see with bikes are due to insufficient levels of care and attention. Of the numbers involved, helmets might help a very small percentage.

 

I didn't say I never came off the bike. I had a taxi turn right in front of me from the 3rd lane, I hit it at almost 90 degrees - the box-aluminium frame of the bike didn't only crack, it completely broke and separated. I did crack a collar-bone but luckily it wasn't dislodged. My head didn't touch anything - but with that style of bike (this was the end of my CBR400 - the payout from which helped me pick up an older 1992 GSX-R750) I would never have dreamed of going out without a full faced helmet. Fully necessary for any biking over maybe 60km/h if not only to stop the wind blasting your eyes and pulling your hair.

 

I once failed to manage a situation approaching a junction where one car decided to stop in lane 3 of 4 on a green light - no signals, just didn't wanna go to the right hand lane to wait for the turn light. I got boxed in, and the road was very smooth - I hit that (rear corner)braking from 80-90 maybe at about 50 to 60km/h... More of a glancing blow than the taxi, and no physical pain. But the reason for the accident is that I wanted to get home early... unlike the taxi, this scared me more because it wasn't so much a 'freak' accident as something I should have seen coming (as most are).

 

The taxi hurt - I needed traction to relieve pressure on a nerve in my spine for a while afterwards. For 3 months I had strange 'ghost' pain from my left shoulder to the tip of my middle finger - like a hotwire connected to a battery that was going to burn it's way out... but no amount of safety gear or helmet would make any difference to any of my personal accidents. 

 

The most interesting was one in soi38 Ladprao at 7:50am - I passed a line of 3 cars (stationary waiting for the lead car to make a right turn) noting a line of cars approaching them on the opposite side of the road. I was maybe between 40-60 km/h and saw a woman on the right kerb with 2 bags of shopping ready to cross. I started to brake and she started to run. I stopped with my back wheel off the ground, and as it sat down I remember seeing her hand with a bag of oranges grab my mirror, and she basically tripped and fell over my front wheel. I was banned from leaving the country for 2 years waiting for that to go to court - ended up paying about 40,000 on top of the insurance (50,000) and got fined 4000 baht. This is where I got experience of the variation in rules from main roads, highways and soi's (where stationary cars are liable).

 

The fact is that when you crash, you're pretty much 100% vulnerable and reliant on some level of adrenaline fuelled judgement or reaction to evade or somehow improve the situation. There are many reasons for accidents, the main one is misjudging how situations can change and/or escape plans can change when judging your speed.

 

Safety gear can help - but I find that people thinking that way tend to die easier. I attended to 36 funerals in England... more than half were wearing very expensive gear and riding bikes that were in much better condition than mine ever was.

 

The main emotion I ever remember from my more eventful moments could be described as an utter loss of face, humiliation, fear - not really aided much by any ideas of 'mitigating' circumstances (left turn from lane 3 with no signal - crazy). I still let him do that to me (and his passenger - left sitting in a taxi with 5 windows smashed in).

 

Getting caught out by trash on the road surface is ridiculous to me - similarly people who ride into holes in the street... and always anyone who blames anybody except themselves for putting themselves into that situation where a taxi CAN take you out accidentally or otherwise...

[Catkiwi]

35 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

Most of the accidents we see with bikes are due to insufficient levels of care and attention. Of the numbers involved, helmets might help a very small percentage.

 

I didn't say I never came off the bike. I had a taxi turn right in front of me from the 3rd lane, I hit it at almost 90 degrees - the box-aluminium frame of the bike didn't only crack, it completely broke and separated. I did crack a collar-bone but luckily it wasn't dislodged. My head didn't touch anything - but with that style of bike (this was the end of my CBR400 - the payout from which helped me pick up an older 1992 GSX-R750) I would never have dreamed of going out without a full faced helmet. Fully necessary for any biking over maybe 60km/h if not only to stop the wind blasting your eyes and pulling your hair.

 

I once failed to manage a situation approaching a junction where one car decided to stop in lane 3 of 4 on a green light - no signals, just didn't wanna go to the right hand lane to wait for the turn light. I got boxed in, and the road was very smooth - I hit that (rear corner)braking from 80-90 maybe at about 50 to 60km/h... More of a glancing blow than the taxi, and no physical pain. But the reason for the accident is that I wanted to get home early... unlike the taxi, this scared me more because it wasn't so much a 'freak' accident as something I should have seen coming (as most are).

 

The taxi hurt - I needed traction to relieve pressure on a nerve in my spine for a while afterwards. For 3 months I had strange 'ghost' pain from my left shoulder to the tip of my middle finger - like a hotwire connected to a battery that was going to burn it's way out... but no amount of safety gear or helmet would make any difference to any of my personal accidents. 

 

The most interesting was one in soi38 Ladprao at 7:50am - I passed a line of 3 cars (stationary waiting for the lead car to make a right turn) noting a line of cars approaching them on the opposite side of the road. I was maybe between 40-60 km/h and saw a woman on the right kerb with 2 bags of shopping ready to cross. I started to brake and she started to run. I stopped with my back wheel off the ground, and as it sat down I remember seeing her hand with a bag of oranges grab my mirror, and she basically tripped and fell over my front wheel. I was banned from leaving the country for 2 years waiting for that to go to court - ended up paying about 40,000 on top of the insurance (50,000) and got fined 4000 baht. This is where I got experience of the variation in rules from main roads, highways and soi's (where stationary cars are liable).

 

The fact is that when you crash, you're pretty much 100% vulnerable and reliant on some level of adrenaline fuelled judgement or reaction to evade or somehow improve the situation. There are many reasons for accidents, the main one is misjudging how situations can change and/or escape plans can change when judging your speed.

 

Safety gear can help - but I find that people thinking that way tend to die easier. I attended to 36 funerals in England... more than half were wearing very expensive gear and riding bikes that were in much better condition than mine ever was.

 

The main emotion I ever remember from my more eventful moments could be described as an utter loss of face, humiliation, fear - not really aided much by any ideas of 'mitigating' circumstances (left turn from lane 3 with no signal - crazy). I still let him do that to me (and his passenger - left sitting in a taxi with 5 windows smashed in).

 

Getting caught out by trash on the road surface is ridiculous to me - similarly people who ride into holes in the street... and always anyone who blames anybody except themselves for putting themselves into that situation where a taxi CAN take you out accidentally or otherwise...

Wow!

[balo]

4 hours ago, ben2talk said:

Safety gear can help - but I find that people thinking that way tend to die easier

 

Really , so you think a person buying a full face helmet paying 5000 baht for it are not cautious enough on the roads here compared with someone riding without a helmet ?   

 

[YetAnother]

pity anyone should have to die like this; as an avid bicyclist, i see a LOT of roadside trash where it seems pickup trucks with a full bed were unloaded

[ben2talk]

9 hours ago, balo said:

 

Really , so you think a person buying a full face helmet paying 5000 baht for it are not cautious enough on the roads here compared with someone riding without a helmet ?   

 

Interesting you should quote a price. Hands up anyone who has a scooter they use to go to the 7-11 and a 5000 helmet to go with it  and hands up anyone in the real world who feels they would want to wear a Shoei helmet to go to their local 7-11.

 

I'd say that better value for money could be had buying a 400 baht light coloured open face helmet and a 600 baht dayglo jacket.

 

Not saying it's exclusive, but it's just an example here - though the dayglo might be a sign of confidence that you're more interested in helping other drivers to not ignore you because you're confident you're not going to go around bends too fast and hit plastic bags in the road... or do a U-turn without looking properly, or maybe looking but not processing the information properly, or seeing a car and assuming that the driver looking at you can actually see you...

 

Anyways - since my last incident 6 years ago (riding here 11 years) I haven't really come very close to any kind of accident... so perhaps I underestimate the danger of my four excursions (4 times travelling the route from Bangplii to Punawitti) over 5 years... 

 

With 36 UK funerals, I can say that more than 3/4 of those guys were wearing some very nice protective gear - 5000 wouldn't pay even for a visor -  at a time when I could only afford a 30 pound crappy polycarbonate helmet...

[robsamui]

16 hours ago, ben2talk said:

Most of the accidents we see with bikes are due to insufficient levels of care and attention. Of the numbers involved, helmets might help a very small percentage.

 

I didn't say I never came off the bike. I had a taxi turn right in front of me from the 3rd lane, I hit it at almost 90 degrees - the box-aluminium frame of the bike didn't only crack, it completely broke and separated. I did crack a collar-bone but luckily it wasn't dislodged. My head didn't touch anything - but with that style of bike (this was the end of my CBR400 - the payout from which helped me pick up an older 1992 GSX-R750) I would never have dreamed of going out without a full faced helmet. Fully necessary for any biking over maybe 60km/h if not only to stop the wind blasting your eyes and pulling your hair.

 

I once failed to manage a situation approaching a junction where one car decided to stop in lane 3 of 4 on a green light - no signals, just didn't wanna go to the right hand lane to wait for the turn light. I got boxed in, and the road was very smooth - I hit that (rear corner)braking from 80-90 maybe at about 50 to 60km/h... More of a glancing blow than the taxi, and no physical pain. But the reason for the accident is that I wanted to get home early... unlike the taxi, this scared me more because it wasn't so much a 'freak' accident as something I should have seen coming (as most are).

 

The taxi hurt - I needed traction to relieve pressure on a nerve in my spine for a while afterwards. For 3 months I had strange 'ghost' pain from my left shoulder to the tip of my middle finger - like a hotwire connected to a battery that was going to burn it's way out... but no amount of safety gear or helmet would make any difference to any of my personal accidents. 

 

The most interesting was one in soi38 Ladprao at 7:50am - I passed a line of 3 cars (stationary waiting for the lead car to make a right turn) noting a line of cars approaching them on the opposite side of the road. I was maybe between 40-60 km/h and saw a woman on the right kerb with 2 bags of shopping ready to cross. I started to brake and she started to run. I stopped with my back wheel off the ground, and as it sat down I remember seeing her hand with a bag of oranges grab my mirror, and she basically tripped and fell over my front wheel. I was banned from leaving the country for 2 years waiting for that to go to court - ended up paying about 40,000 on top of the insurance (50,000) and got fined 4000 baht. This is where I got experience of the variation in rules from main roads, highways and soi's (where stationary cars are liable).

 

The fact is that when you crash, you're pretty much 100% vulnerable and reliant on some level of adrenaline fuelled judgement or reaction to evade or somehow improve the situation. There are many reasons for accidents, the main one is misjudging how situations can change and/or escape plans can change when judging your speed.

 

Safety gear can help - but I find that people thinking that way tend to die easier. I attended to 36 funerals in England... more than half were wearing very expensive gear and riding bikes that were in much better condition than mine ever was.

 

The main emotion I ever remember from my more eventful moments could be described as an utter loss of face, humiliation, fear - not really aided much by any ideas of 'mitigating' circumstances (left turn from lane 3 with no signal - crazy). I still let him do that to me (and his passenger - left sitting in a taxi with 5 windows smashed in).

 

Getting caught out by trash on the road surface is ridiculous to me - similarly people who ride into holes in the street... and always anyone who blames anybody except themselves for putting themselves into that situation where a taxi CAN take you out accidentally or otherwise...

You really DO  need to take the trouble to read posts from people here, other than just the replies to your own post.

 

THERE WAS NO TRASH ON THE ROAD. The original news article was written by a Thai whose English was not good enough to explain the circumstances - as has been pointed out already in an earlier reply.

 

There is an oil slick on this uphill incline, caused by the cooking fats and decomposing liquids from household garbage which settle to the bottom of the government refuse collection truck, then flow out onto the road as the truck starts to go uphill. 

 

Look at the photo here, the contrast has been increased to highlight the extent of the grease slick which is added to, night after night.

 

I hope this moderates your superior tone a little, as in no way is your comment applicable ". . . getting caught out by trash on the road surface is ridiculous".

 

The poor guy was going too fast for this unexpected skid pan, that's all. 

RIP

Edited May 23, 2017 by robsamui

[TheLobster]

Went along here today, in the dry it isn't that bad but in the wet it would be lethal and the bend does get quite sharp which may catch you out if you don't know the road.

[ben2talk]

You really DO  need to take the trouble to read posts from people here, other than just the replies to your own post.
 
THERE WAS NO TRASH ON THE ROAD. The original news article was written by a Thai whose English was not good enough to explain the circumstances - as has been pointed out already in an earlier reply.
 
There is an oil slick on this uphill incline, caused by the cooking fats and decomposing liquids from household garbage which settle to the bottom of the government refuse collection truck, then flow out onto the road as the truck starts to go uphill. 
 
Look at the photo here, the contrast has been increased to highlight the extent of the grease slick which is added to, night after night.
 
I hope this moderates your superior tone a little, as in no way is your comment applicable ". . . getting caught out by trash on the road surface is ridiculous".
 
The poor guy was going too fast for this unexpected skid pan, that's all. 

RIP

Right, I never saw that, this app isn't too great for catching up

[ben2talk]

You really DO  need to take the trouble to read posts from people here, other than just the replies to your own post.
 
THERE WAS NO TRASH ON THE ROAD. The original news article was written by a Thai whose English was not good enough to explain the circumstances - as has been pointed out already in an earlier reply.
 
There is an oil slick on this uphill incline, caused by the cooking fats and decomposing liquids from household garbage which settle to the bottom of the government refuse collection truck, then flow out onto the road as the truck starts to go uphill. 
 
Look at the photo here, the contrast has been increased to highlight the extent of the grease slick which is added to, night after night.
 
I hope this moderates your superior tone a little, as in no way is your comment applicable ". . . getting caught out by trash on the road surface is ridiculous".
 
The poor guy was going too fast for this unexpected skid pan, that's all. 

RIP

Right, no experience or training? Observe the road and adapt accordingly?

This road can't be more oily than Ramkhamheang, or many other diesel soaked patches waiting for a spot of rain...

I've gone straight across corners before, slowly with both feet down and tyres sliding.

Not all roads are familiar. As the other biker said, he was going pretty quick...

Isn't this what Thai s get criticised for? Too much speed?

[TheLobster]

9 hours ago, ben2talk said:

Right, no experience or training? Observe the road and adapt accordingly?

This road can't be more oily than Ramkhamheang, or many other diesel soaked patches waiting for a spot of rain...

I've gone straight across corners before, slowly with both feet down and tyres sliding.

Not all roads are familiar. As the other biker said, he was going pretty quick...

Isn't this what Thai s get criticised for? Too much speed?

Anyone else had enough of Ben talk?

 

RIP the poor guy that died.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

Conservative speed, defensive driving, watch out for dogs, avoid driving at night, no alcohol and a reasonable helmet is the only way to drive. Thai roads are considered the 2nd most dangerous in the world.

[TheLobster]

I noticed that there is a warning sign 'slippery road' there now. Don't know when it was put up.

 

Nearly hit someone the other night, I overtook someone who was riding about 20kph on a motorbike in the middle of the lane. Up ahead the road looked clear but as I overtook up ahead I saw an indicator flash. The idiot driving without a headlight the other way knew the bulb had gone or whatever, but was still riding around without a headlight at night. Suicide merchant. The last time I changed a headlight bulb it was 30THB with a tip.

[wgdanson]

On 5/21/2017 at 0:55 PM, meatboy said:

never and do you want to know why,in over 30yrs.i have never ridden a BIKE,and my car has only 4,300 on the clock,that is after 5yrs.of use.

How is your donkey?

[TheLobster]

On ‎21‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 6:55 AM, meatboy said:

never and do you want to know why,in over 30yrs.i have never ridden a BIKE,and my car has only 4,300 on the clock,that is after 5yrs.of use.

 

15 hours ago, wgdanson said:

How is your donkey?

Two irrelevant posts on an important subject IMO. Don't post if you have nothing to contribute ........... <deleted>

[billd766]

10 hours ago, TheLobster said:

 

Two irrelevant posts on an important subject IMO. Don't post if you have nothing to contribute ........... <deleted>

 

Thank you very much for your interesting post.

 

You do fo course realise that this is an open forum where people can post what they wish provided that they stay with the rules.

 

I am sure that the moderators have noticed your zeal and that if a moderators post comes along they may even contact you.

 

Up until that point you can always do as many people do, which is to ignore that particular post or, if you feel that strongly about, it you can yourself complain to the moderators and let them deal with it as they wish.