Working Online for Chinese Company while Living in Thailand.

[DLang]

Just out of interest.

 

You live in Thailand.

You work from your home for a Chinese based company online. There is no Thai connection to the job other than you are doing it from your home in Thailand.

You have your salary transferred into your Thai bank account every month.

 

What visa should you get? 

Should you be paying tax?

 

etc.

[JackThompson]

Let's start with the easy question:

1 hour ago, DLang said:

Should you be paying tax?

Any earned-income which is remitted to Thailand In The Year It Is Earned may be subject to tax depending on how long you are in Thailand during that year.  If you use money earned in previous years, no tax is due.  But...

1 hour ago, DLang said:

You have your salary transferred into your Thai bank account every month.

... then you may owe tax on that income.

 

1 hour ago, DLang said:

What visa should you get? 

You won't get one related to working for any company but a Thai company (or subsidiary operating in Thailand) which must be accompanied by a work-permit.  You cannot get a work-permit for working for a company operating in another country.   So, your visa-options are the same as someone who is retired.  If over 50, you could get a visa based on retirement.  If under 50, Tourist, Volunteer, ED, etc.

 

Note that it is illegal, per the letter of the law, to "work in Thailand" - as the law was written before "online work" existed.  This is not being prosecuted, currently - but that could change, so I would not talk about it, if you decide to do this.

[DLang]

There's no issues.

 

I'm just wondering what the story is. 

 

So it is classed as work in Thailand and those doing it can be prosecuted for doing so, but cannot be granted a WP and Working Visa based on it..... which thus makes it an illegal activity? 

 

Btw, I'm not asking you Jack, as I don't believe you really know. 

 

Open ended questions. 

 

[FritsSikkink]

15 minutes ago, DLang said:

There's no issues.

 

I'm just wondering what the story is. 

 

So it is classed as work in Thailand and those doing it can be prosecuted for doing so, but cannot be granted a WP and Working Visa based on it..... which thus makes it an illegal activity? 

 

Btw, I'm not asking you Jack, as I don't believe you really know. 

 

Open ended questions. 

 

Jack is 100% right

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, DLang said:

There's no issues.

 

I'm just wondering what the story is. 

 

So it is classed as work in Thailand and those doing it can be prosecuted for doing so, but cannot be granted a WP and Working Visa based on it..... which thus makes it an illegal activity? 

 

Btw, I'm not asking you Jack, as I don't believe you really know. 

 

Open ended questions. 

 

It is a fact that working as a "digital nomad" without a work permit is not allowed by the letter of the law, although getting a work permit as a digital nomad is impossible. I think the lack of logic that disturbs you is a reason why the activity is currently tolerated by immigration.

 

Since it is a "tolerated" activity, but not one envisaged in the law, there is no visa category suitable for digital nomads to use.

[elviajero]

Immigration do not seem to have a problem with 'tourists' keeping up with their work whilst holidaying in Thailand.

 

If you are living in Thailand you should have a non-immigrant visa. 

 

Any work requires permission, which would, in your case, be a work permit. But to get a work permit you need to be employed by a company legally operating in Thailand.

 

Working short term as a tourist is almost certainly not going to be prosecuted. Living in the country with a non-immigrant visa/extension of stay, and working without permission, could easily be prosecuted.

 

[balo]

If you live here as a digital nomad you can work from home, no problems , plenty of us do that . but you can't transfer a "salary"  into a Thai bank account.  

It must be completely separate and you need to pay taxes in your home country , not Thailand.  

So that basicallly means you can live here as a tourist/retired person and get your income from abroad. 

 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, balo said:

If you live here as a digital nomad you can work from home, no problems , plenty of us do that . but you can't transfer a "salary"  into a Thai bank account.  

It must be completely separate and you need to pay taxes in your home country , not Thailand.  

So that basicallly means you can live here as a tourist/retired person and get your income from abroad. 

You become 'resident for tax' if living in Thailand for more that 6 months. It doesn't matter where you get paid or pay tax, you can still have a tax liability in Thailand.

 

"If you live here as as digital nomad". Isn't that an oxymoron!

[balo]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You become 'resident for tax' if living in Thailand for more that 6 months

That's the normal response from people who are trying to find a way to stop it .  As we already talked about in many threads already , it can't be stopped.  

 

I live here on a 1 year visa , based on retirement since I am over the age of 50,

When I turn on my laptop at home I can communicate with the world in many ways , via Skype, emails , facebook etc. My company is not in Thailand and I can maintain my business in my home country .  Thailand will never be my home country but I still live here.  

I am not breaking any laws here and contributing to the economy . I have even talked to immigration officials about it and there is not a problem .

Yes the laws are outdated  , so you can always find a way to tell me its illegal . That I need to move on to Cambodia or something like that .  But I'm still here. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DUS]

14 minutes ago, balo said:

I live here on a 1 year visa , based on retirement since I am over the age of 50,

When I turn on my laptop at home I can communicate with the world in many ways , via Skype, emails , facebook etc. My company is not in Thailand and I can maintain my business in my home country .  

 

May I ask where you pay your personal income tax (if any)?

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, balo said:

That's the normal response from people who are trying to find a way to stop it .  As we already talked about in many threads already , it can't be stopped.  

I'm not trying to stop anything. I just gave the OP a FACT. 

 

10 minutes ago, balo said:

I am not breaking any laws here and contributing to the economy . I have even talked to immigration officials about it and there is not a problem .

You are if you are working. Regardless of the opinion of a few immigration officers.

You are if you are not declaring any tax liability. It is s self assessment system, therefore, your responsibility to declare it.

 

12 minutes ago, balo said:

Yes the laws are outdated  , so you can always find a way to tell me its illegal . That I need to move on to Cambodia or something like that .  But I'm still here. 

I agree that they do need updating, but until they are I suggest you refrain from shooting your mouth off or you might shoot yourself in the foot.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

 

2 hours ago, balo said:

I am not breaking any laws here and contributing to the economy . I have even talked to immigration officials about it and there is not a problem .

You are if you are working. Regardless of the opinion of a few immigration officers.

You are if you are not declaring any tax liability. It is s self assessment system, therefore, your responsibility to declare it.

Technically, if working online without a work permit, you are operating outside the law. It is also crystal clear that immigration tolerates it, and has no intention of cracking down on it at the current time. There are co-working spaces all over Thailand where immigration knows where to find online workers. They are left alone.

 

The tax situation differs a bit from most other countries. First, what is normal: you are considered resident in Thailand for tax purposes if you spend more than 180 days a year inside the country. Now what is unusual: while income earned inside Thailand is always taxable, income earned outside Thailand is only taxable if brought into Thailand in the year it is earned. Anyone with a decent level of savings can legally avoid tax by careful segregation of current year income and money transferred to Thailand.  That is without even considering that money is fungible, and it would be mighty difficult to show that a transfer into Thailand included current year income.

[balo]

2 hours ago, DUS said:

May I ask where you pay your personal income tax

In Norway , its my own company  so I have to inform about my income every year.  I work mostly as a freelancer these days so the income is not very high .  

All the money I get from customers  goes into my Norwegian bank account ,  there's no secrets there,  

When I need money in Thailand I make an online transfer from Norway to my Thai bank account.  

You can't stop online or remote work , not In Thailand or anywhere else. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

     

 

[balo]

17 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There are co-working spaces all over Thailand where immigration knows where to find online workers. They are left alone.

Exactly , still going to a public work space with a crowd of people  can be a bit risky , my recommendations for digital nomads in Thailand is to just work from home or inside a coffee shop.  

 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

Technically, if working online without a work permit, you are operating outside the law. It is also crystal clear that immigration tolerates it, and has no intention of cracking down on it at the current time. There are co-working spaces all over Thailand where immigration knows where to find online workers. They are left alone.

No you're not, yes they do to a point, and there is no guarantee of that.

I have never seen a co-working space set up by immigration or the department of labour for foreigners to work in. The fact that they exist (for Thais) doesn't change the law. The fact that 'working tourists' are tolerated is because they are 'tourists'.

 

The tax situation is simple. It is up to the foreigner to asses if they have a tax liability and to submit a tax return if they do. I was simply correcting @balo opinion that income paid outside Thailand isn't taxable when it can be.

[Rc2702]

Truth is with the way ecommerce is catching on and the lack of phone calls needed to do business and the rise of 3rd party fulfillment. You need only a good WiFi connection and a solid work ethic to work from anywhere. Even old codgers could be earning a crust utilising there typing skills to contact companies via email with a view to getting them to become resellers. It's the same tactic employed for many years by traders on alibaba.com.  hundreds of traders punting product for a factory. Most of the traders are at home and never touch a product. 

[tazly]

14 hours ago, DLang said:

There's no issues.

 

I'm just wondering what the story is. 

 

So it is classed as work in Thailand and those doing it can be prosecuted for doing so, but cannot be granted a WP and Working Visa based on it..... which thus makes it an illegal activity? 

 

Btw, I'm not asking you Jack, as I don't believe you really know. 

 

Open ended questions. 

 

You asked a question in a public forum....Jack is a member of the public....therefore you are asking Jack.

 

[wilkis333]

how about being a youtuber?

[Machiavelli]

24 minutes ago, wilkis333 said:

how about being a youtuber?

Doesn't count. Youtuber makes you a star. That comes with lots of benefits here. Check with your local Puyai. 

[DLang]

So the general armchair consensus is..... that it is illegal and breaks immigration and labour laws.... and it cannot be done legally (with a Work Permit issued) because it doesn't involve a Thai company..... and a blind eye is turned because there is no legal way to do and and no real way to regulate or punish it. 

[IMA_FARANG]

Online work in Thailand that is done in Thailand is technically considered "work in Thailand" because it is performed here.

So you need a "work Permit" to work on-line from Thailand.

However, as was said previously, the law was never written to consider on-line work and therefore is unclear/uncertain.

But there is no visa that legally applies for that circumstance.

Many people do work on-line but just quietly...... you take your chances that you don't get caught.

 

 

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, DLang said:

a blind eye is turned (to online work) because there is no legal way to do and and no real way to regulate or punish it. 

And quite possibly because a portion of incomes earned by such persons are transferred into Thailand and therefore are, essentially, "free money" pouring into the Thai economy, given the foreigners contributing receive no handouts/benefits from the Thai government.

[balo]

A famous Norwegian author , Jon Nesbo came to Thailand a few years ago and wrote a book while living here for a few months. He published his book in Norway and got world famous.

You could call him a digital nomad if you like. The point is if your business is outside of Thailand that's also where your money is. And if you want to bring that money into Thailand later nobody cares .

 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, balo said:

The point is if your business is outside of Thailand that's also where your money is. And if you want to bring that money into Thailand later nobody cares .

Utter nonsense. Go the the Revenue Department, tell them you've lived here longer than 6 months, and that you are transferring earned income from abroad. They will care and will want full disclosure to ascertain if you've a tax liability, and if you have a liability they will take the money from you.

 

Just because digital nomads (and others) can work anywhere doesn't mean they can work anywhere, or that they are exempt from a countries immigration, labour or tax laws.

 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html
Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

[balo]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

and that you are transferring earned income from abroad.

And utter nonsense .  

 

I transfer money from my private account to Thailand , only small money like anyone else.  

 

But if you prefer I can use my foreign credit card., and pay my bills in Norway , Thailand DOES NOT CARE about that . You should try to use your brain . 

 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

49 minutes ago, balo said:

And utter nonsense .  

 

I transfer money from my private account to Thailand , only small money like anyone else.  

 

But if you prefer I can use my foreign credit card., and pay my bills in Norway , Thailand DOES NOT CARE about that . You should try to use your brain .

I have no interest in what you do with your money. I am only interested in correcting all the misinformation you are giving to others. But to continue your education, it doesn't matter what route the money takes to get here, it's the source of the money, tax year earned and tax year transferred to Thailand.

 

If you don't understand the laws of the country you are living in its best to keep your ignorance to yourself.

 

People need facts so they make make informed decisions. Your misinformation helps no one.

[balo]

13 minutes ago, elviajero said:

it doesn't matter what route the money takes to get here, it's the source of the money, tax year earned and tax year transferred to Thailand.

 

I think you are not with me.  I pay my tax in my home country , not Thailand!  That's the difference, you understand now ?  All my transactions are outside of Thailand.

 

Are you telling me that I am not allowed to spend my money in Thailand?  Then million of foreigners will have big problems every year . 

 

 

 

[Rc2702]

15 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I have no interest in what you do with your money. I am only interested in correcting all the misinformation you are giving to others. But to continue your education, it doesn't matter what route the money takes to get here, it's the source of the money, tax year earned and tax year transferred to Thailand.

 

If you don't understand the laws of the country you are living in its best to keep your ignorance to yourself.

 

People need facts so they make make informed decisions. Your misinformation helps no one.

If that's all true how come no one's getting eyed up when they have clearly been in thailand on a tourist visa for 42 months in a row with a handful of days outside LOS. Surely if the 6 month inside thailand law was one they wished to uphold they would act?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Rc2702 said:

If that's all true how come no one's getting eyed up when they have clearly been in thailand on a tourist visa for 42 months in a row with a handful of days outside LOS. Surely if the 6 month inside thailand law was one they wished to uphold they would act?

Maybe they have savings in excess of 1 years living expenses here - I do.  Many people cheat on their taxes in many countries.  Sometimes they get away with it for awhile, before getting caught.  You know what the law is now (see my 1st post and others) - what you do is up to you. 

[Rc2702]

18 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Maybe they have savings in excess of 1 years living expenses here - I do.  Many people cheat on their taxes in many countries.  Sometimes they get away with it for awhile, before getting caught.  You know what the law is now (see my 1st post and others) - what you do is up to you. 

That's not answering the question at all and what's tax cheats got to do with it.

 

Point is if Thailand was serious about recieving taxes from people residing within thailand for 180 days+ in a calenfar year they would go after the people.  It is not happening so that law is being overlooked and the chap barking on about digital nomads are a curse is onto a loser. The only issue I cannot understand is why being a person who can holiday and work simultaneously is a bad thing for anyone other than people that do not know how?