Thailand is World’s Deadliest Country for Motorcyclists

[lvr181]

I know that it seems like Thai authority does not or cannot accept assistance from other countries, all too often but I attach a video (from India) which could be suitably edited for Thailand and shown regularly on all Thai TV as a start to changing bad driving habits!

 

Where there is a will there is a way. But I will not hold my breath. 

2017-04-16-Road safety India.mp4

[stanleycoin]

Think the only  answer to the Riding and Driving problems in Thailand.

Is heavy fines,   public shaming,   and good old Public floggings with a very big stick.

If its minors that have transgressed,  beat  both the parents. if you can find them   

 

[lvr181]

25 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

I know that it seems like Thai authority does not or cannot accept assistance from other countries, all too often but I attach a video (from India) which could be suitably edited for Thailand and shown regularly on all Thai TV as a start to changing bad driving habits!

 

Where there is a will there is a way. But I will not hold my breath. 

2017-04-16-Road safety India.mp4

And from China..........

 

An eastern cultural mindset?

chinese drivers1.mp4

[juice777]

I don't drive here or in the UK but in my opinion its the police wrong doing. If all you have to worry about is a small fine for most traffic offences you don't really have to worry about much. The drink driving has got slightly better in my opinion. Now some of the Thai people know this is wrong but still do it. Where as before none of them actually even thought there was anything wrong with it . I even met a Thai girl last year who left her bike at home because she was drinking. A first in about 17 years of coming here. They just need to start fineing them more money and sticking repeat offenders in prison . What we need is Sting operations on the BIB taking bribes on hidden cameras. Stick it on YouTube Thailand will be so shamed maybe the police will stop taking bribes .

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[mrfill]

On 23/05/2017 at 2:19 AM, LannaGuy said:

Thais are irresponsible and selfish on the roads and will just go where they want because they are "Thai".  This is evidenced, clearly, by flashing headlights. Most countries it means 'after you' or 'thank you' or 'you go first'  here it means 'get out the way' or 'I'm not going to stop'. It's a metaphor for Thai thinking. I ride much less than i used to and much slower you have to assume an idiot will turn without indicating at any time.

From the UK Highway Code

110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

111
Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 5/23/2017 at 11:03 AM, Srikcir said:

Countries With the Most and Least Car-Crash Deaths (2014): Thailand #2, UK #180, Switzerland #184

That's in order from most (1) to least (193).

Thailand has 44 deaths per 100k population. both UK and Switzerland have 5 per 100k..

So Thailand has about 9 times more deaths per 100k of population than either UK or Swiss.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

[brling]

On 5/23/2017 at 11:30 AM, Wake Up said:

I find driving a car in Thailand not a lot different from driving in other countries except for the drunk tourists renting motorbikes driving on the wrong side of the road and some Thai motorcycles that drive at night with no lights the wrong way on the road.  

Laughable,  So most of the 26,000 road deaths in Thailand are caused by the drunk farangs ?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

7 hours ago, mrfill said:

From the UK Highway Code

110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

111
Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

 

 

Flashed headlights can also mean "you forgot to put your lights on!" or "watch out there's a speed trap ahead" so it isn't always a clear message, which is why it's in the highway code not to do it or face a fine.

I still do (in the UK) of course.

Any experienced driver also knows the truck driver's lights code, which is straightforward, not open to interpretation.

 

[hobz]

10 hours ago, lvr181 said:

I know that it seems like Thai authority does not or cannot accept assistance from other countries, all too often but I attach a video (from India) which could be suitably edited for Thailand and shown regularly on all Thai TV as a start to changing bad driving habits!

 

Where there is a will there is a way. But I will not hold my breath. 

2017-04-16-Road safety India.mp4

Yeah, also i feel like there's a huge opportunity to raise a ton of money by setting up cameras everywhere and start fining people. Increase the fines as well. 

The fact that they are not increasing the fines tells me that they will never figure this out...

 

Also, i try to be good and contribute to road safety, but it's tricky when you get hit from behind as soon as you stop for pedestrians etc..

[brling]

On 5/23/2017 at 11:30 AM, Wake Up said:

 I enjoy driving in Thailand and would not change a thing especially driving in Issan and Krabi. 

So" you would not change a thing", You sound happy about the 26,000 road deaths a year, the second worst in the word. Well done Thailand.

[SunsetT]

On 23/05/2017 at 1:04 AM, dcnx said:

“If you take motorcycles out of the equation, Thailand’s roads will be as safe as (those in) Switzerland, the United States and Britain,” Dr Liviu Vedrasco

 

B.S. 

 

They are maniacs in cars and trucks too, they just don't die as easily.

 

I could sometimes go months without seeing a car accident in the US. I see one or two (cars) per week here, usually late night. 

<deleted>.....As if all motorbike accidents only involve motorbikes!

 

....I wonder how big Dr Vedrasco's brown envelope was.

[LannaGuy]

15 hours ago, mrfill said:

From the UK Highway Code

110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

111
Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

 

 

Thailand =  intimidate other road users is about right

 

and yes you cannot 'assume' but being a Brit and having lived there 50+ years I can assure you it is common practice to flash to say 'after you' and 'thank you' but, obviously, they can't enshrine that in the Highway Code.

[Wake Up]

13 hours ago, brling said:

Laughable,  So most of the 26,000 road deaths in Thailand are caused by the drunk farangs ?

Some TV information is very useful and some is complete BS. Driving is Thailand is not a big deal. I do it all the time and the histrionics about driving in Thailand are laughable. Have you guys ever driven in any other countries?  Most (not all) Thailand driving critics probably don't drive at all. But don't drive I don't care but I hate to see so much driving misinformation spewed over and over and over like a badge of honor. Drive Khon Kaen or Krabi and tell me it is dangerous. If you do then clearly you cannot drive. Drive Bangkok and you get traffic but you go too slow to be dangerous unless you are on a motorbike. Don't let the tv fanatics keep you from driving a car.  They are way overstating the reality of driving in Thailand which is not bad compared to China, Rome, Chicago etc..... 

[MaxYakov]

18 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Some TV information is very useful and some is complete BS. Driving is Thailand is not a big deal. I do it all the time and the histrionics about driving in Thailand are laughable. Have you guys ever driven in any other countries?  Most (not all) Thailand driving critics probably don't drive at all. But don't drive I don't care but I hate to see so much driving misinformation spewed over and over and over like a badge of honor. Drive Khon Kaen or Krabi and tell me it is dangerous. If you do then clearly you cannot drive. Drive Bangkok and you get traffic but you go too slow to be dangerous unless you are on a motorbike. Don't let the tv fanatics keep you from driving a car.  They are way overstating the reality of driving in Thailand which is not bad compared to China, Rome, Chicago etc..... 

Very nice! Now can you plausibly or reasonably explain why the Thailand road death/rate is the second highest in the world? Maybe it's only our imaginations. Something like that? Or is it just that you haven't been one of the victims yet?

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Very nice! Now can you plausibly or reasonably explain why the Thailand road death/rate is the second highest in the world? Maybe it's only our imaginations. Something like that? Or is it just that you haven't been one of the victims yet?

 

He makes a fairly valid point.... The roads death statistics are primarily counting motorcycles. 

Then there are busses, Mini-Vans, pickups (with people in the back). 

 

If you are one of the those who drive a modern car, wear a seatbelt and drive cautiously then you are at far lower risk than the statistics may suggest.

 

Of course, you are still at greater risk than driving in the UK and this still comes down to driver education and road design, however, the extreme stats identifying Thailand as one of the most deadly countries to drive in is slightly misleading for city dwelling car drivers - Driving a Car in Thailand is safer than the statistics would suggest. 

 

I would like to see statistics which specifically identify Private Cars and see this comparison with other countries so we can apply a balanced perspective. 

 

 

 

[MaxYakov]

2 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Some TV information is very useful and some is complete BS. Driving is Thailand is not a big deal. I do it all the time and the histrionics about driving in Thailand are laughable. Have you guys ever driven in any other countries?  Most (not all) Thailand driving critics probably don't drive at all. But don't drive I don't care but I hate to see so much driving misinformation spewed over and over and over like a badge of honor. Drive Khon Kaen or Krabi and tell me it is dangerous. If you do then clearly you cannot drive. Drive Bangkok and you get traffic but you go too slow to be dangerous unless you are on a motorbike. Don't let the tv fanatics keep you from driving a car.  They are wa

 

2 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Very nice! Now can you plausibly or reasonably explain why the Thailand road death/rate is the second highest in the world? Maybe it's only our imaginations. Something like that? Or is it just that you haven't been one of the victims yet?

 

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

He makes a fairly valid point.... The roads death statistics are primarily counting motorcycles. 

Then there are busses, Mini-Vans, pickups (with people in the back). 

 

If you are one of the those who drive a modern car, wear a seatbelt and drive cautiously then you are at far lower risk than the statistics may suggest.

 

Of course, you are still at greater risk than driving in the UK and this still comes down to driver education and road design, however, the extreme stats identifying Thailand as one of the most deadly countries to drive in is slightly misleading for city dwelling car drivers - Driving a Car in Thailand is safer than the statistics would suggest. 

 

I would like to see statistics which specifically identify Private Cars and see this comparison with other countries so we can apply a balanced perspective. 

 

 

 

Yes, he does and perhaps his point is "fairly valid". However, when my life and well being on the line, I prefer to err to the more conservative. We all have to be reminded that this thread is about motorcycles and not other types of motor vehicles. I've driven cars of all types for over 50 years in the USA and Mexico so I have limited experience (except the years upon years of early morning, 80 mph commutes on USA freeways).

 

So anyway, that having been said, I did an absolute minimum of research and came up with this (HERE [link]):

 

 

This seems plausible to me, but it's slightly dated and of unknown reliability. I'll let you do the math on how many cold bodies the 13% 4-wheel cars represents in the pie chart in relation to other countries. With me it's academic because I'm going to be in a rail car or an NCA bus if I'm doing any serious inter-city traveling on Thailand's roads. I'm just no fun at all these days.

 

I decided long ago not to drive any sort of motor vehicle in Thailand. I've seen some pretty deadly infrastructure from inside a van or a bus that did not meet my personal safety standards. Of course, as a USA driver, I've been spoiled.

 

One day, on a van visa run, coming down from Cambodia I was noticing how there was absolutely nothing separating the northbound an southbound lanes except a shallow ditch. No steel guardrails or wide expanse of median between the NB and SB. Nothing but that deadly ditch that could get one launched into oncoming high-speed vehicles. Then there are the exposed power poles and other roadside hazards that do not have deflectors, etc. My van driver was attempting to maintain 120 kph (as usual). I ditched the driver and the van at the next rest stop and hitchhiked the rest of the way into KK.

 

Long story short, even if the 4-wheel vehicle fatality statistics are relatively comparable to other countries, Thailand's road/highway infrastructure is severely lacking in safety features that I've been used to.

[brling]

24 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

 

 

Long story short, even if the 4-wheel vehicle fatality statistics are relatively comparable to other countries, Thailand's road/highway infrastructure is severely lacking in safety features that I've been used to.

 

5,500 deaths / year (15/day)  due to motor bikes, out of a total death toll of 25,000 / year, is not comparable to other countries.

[01322521959]

I ride here. Thais don't learn to ride they just graduate from bicycles to Hondas with no training and then continue to refine their sh%# riding skills.

Sent from my i-mobile_i-STYLE_219 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[01322521959]

Riding a motorcycle in Thailand for the better part of the last 30 years from big choppers to a  scooters, my biggest fear was not be hit from behind by a careless and distracted drivers, which are plenty of them around, other than that, I ride with a mindset of a racing driver, watching and calculating what other road users all around me are doing and to preempt a disaster.... Once I was hit head on while waiting in a red lights  by a out of control pickup and broke my left wrist bone, other than that,  so far so good... 

I'm exactly the same as you. What's he doing? Is that car turning? Is he going to turn left or just forgot to cancel his indicator. Am I doing 40? Slow down I'm doing 60 ...an so on. Thais don't do this, they look 5 feet in front and if it'd clear, no probs.

Sent from my i-mobile_i-STYLE_219 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[lvr181]

Expect the unexpected and ride to live.

[paz]

On 5/24/2017 at 4:03 AM, welovethailand said:

 I only turned the handle bars, he thought he could "zip" us in our on lane. Well, he hit us so hard, he  threw me and my bike about 25 feet to the other side of the road.. 

Said with empathy, and no blame from a fellow biker: you should have looked in the mirror, or back. before even thinking of changing direction. I certainly have made the same mistake as your many times, and just got lucky. In Thailand or elsewhere. Riding a bike is all about self-protection as someone else wrote here.

[richthai]

I recall seeing a breakdown of causes for motorbike fatalities:

1. No helmet / improper

2. Excessive speed

3. Drunk driving

 

From personal observations I would place Running a Red Light near the top as well.

[paz]

Blaming lack of helmets  is an uninformed mantra, typically foreigner car drivers. Of course they save lives but:

 

• 90% of Thai helmets are basically  useless. They are way too small, flimsily fastened, will fly away before impact. They would not pass DoT approval anywhere in the world. In my Western country I use an approved Jet helmet for practicality,  but it does not protect my face. Even a moderate impact would destroy my  eyes, jaw and mouth.
• Not all deaths or permanent injuries are from head impact. A great deal are from spinal injury. In some cases the helmet makes that worse because it give more lever to snapping the neck. That even before considering to internal organs, limbs that can be fatal because of hemorrhages. Basically nothing can be done about that unless you wears protections like a MotoGP driver.

Being on a bike, with a motor or not, is inherently dangerous. Either accept that and drive defensively, or renounce its advantages and related lifestyle. And let others do make their decisions as well.

 

[MaxYakov]

1 hour ago, richthai said:

I recall seeing a breakdown of causes for motorbike fatalities:

1. No helmet / improper

2. Excessive speed

3. Drunk driving

 

From personal observations I would place Running a Red Light near the top as well.

This (reactive KE) is on top:  Kinetic Energy = MV**2

 

Basic (what-used-to-be-high-school) physics is not (should not be) rocket science.

 

Someone told me about a motorbike operator that was strangled by his helmet strap following being rear-ended by a taxi (a security guard would not allow the someone to release the strap). The motorbike pillion rider was killed instantly.

[masuk]

On 5/23/2017 at 8:29 AM, fruitman said:

Well what a surprise!

 

And how many more countries are there on earth where one can see a motobike driving against traffic every 20 seconds???

 

Thanks RTP, you guys can be proud....

...or on  the footpaths, or drive at night with 50% of bikes having no rear light, and after 9pm, 90% don't use a helmet but hang it on the handlebars.

[joeyg]

On 5/23/2017 at 6:29 AM, ezzra said:

Riding a motorcycle in Thailand for the better part of the last 30 years from big choppers to a  scooters, my biggest fear was not be hit from behind by a careless and distracted drivers, which are plenty of them around, other than that, I ride with a mindset of a racing driver, watching and calculating what other road users all around me are doing and to preempt a disaster.... Once I was hit head on while waiting in a red lights  by a out of control pickup and broke my left wrist bone, other than that,  so far so good... 

Excellent!!!

[bheard]

Just looking at the picture it seems that at least one rider did not have their helmet fastened, I lost a good friend in Pattaya a few years back because of the fact that he didn't have his helmet fastened, wearing an unfastened helmet might save you a 500 baht fine but it will not save your life, if the helmet laws were to be "policed" for everyone the stats might come down a bit.

Seems a lot of people think that wearing a helmet is like having a personal safety capsule.
Sure it is essential to wear a helmet, but only in certain circumstances is it gonna save your life.
The primary problem for Thais on motorcycles is not having any concept of road sense or a sense of self preservation.
Not wearing helmets is a secondary issue.

[hawker9000]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 4:31 AM, paz said:

Blaming lack of helmets  is an uninformed mantra, typically foreigner car drivers. Of course they save lives but:

 

• 90% of Thai helmets are basically  useless. They are way too small, flimsily fastened, will fly away before impact. They would not pass DoT approval anywhere in the world. In my Western country I use an approved Jet helmet for practicality,  but it does not protect my face. Even a moderate impact would destroy my  eyes, jaw and mouth.
• Not all deaths or permanent injuries are from head impact. A great deal are from spinal injury. In some cases the helmet makes that worse because it give more lever to snapping the neck. That even before considering to internal organs, limbs that can be fatal because of hemorrhages. Basically nothing can be done about that unless you wears protections like a MotoGP driver.

Being on a bike, with a motor or not, is inherently dangerous. Either accept that and drive defensively, or renounce its advantages and related lifestyle. And let others do make their decisions as well.

 

I accept that in Thailand being on a bike is inherently dangerous (foreigners and their vacation rentals certainly don't make it any less so), helmets or no.  But before dismissing the mandate for helmets as mere "mantra", I'd like to see reliably reported that percentage of motorbike/motorcycle deaths which would have not occurred had a proper helmet been properly worn.  (Where you come by believable stats in Thailand I couldn't say...)

 

[Grumpy Duck]

16 hours ago, bheard said:

 

Seems a lot of people think that wearing a helmet is like having a personal safety capsule.
Sure it is essential to wear a helmet, but only in certain circumstances is it gonna save your life.
The primary problem for Thais on motorcycles is not having any concept of road sense or a sense of self preservation.
Not wearing helmets is a secondary issue.

 

Helmet, also known as brain bucket. 

[paz]

15 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

 But before dismissing the mandate for helmets as mere "mantra",

Please don't get me wrong. I'm the first to advocate use of an helmet all the time, but it has to be a real helmet, not a joke.

With the term "mantra" I was referring to something that is repeated all the time by people with no understanding of the typical causes of death or permanent disability in motorbike accident. In most cases is the accident that kills a biker, not the lack of helmet. Chest trauma, spinal breakage, embolism caused by multiple fractures unfortunately are not prevented by the use of an helmet.