British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

What puzzles me: we see these apparently normal kids become radicalised in the blink of an eye. One minute going to the football and almost the next minute chanting prayers in the street. How does this happen so fast? What is the trigger? Are there no alarm bells? The Imam mentioned something about getting an evil look from this kid but nothing else out of the ordinary. It's peculiar.

The same can be said for any criminal, how often do you see he media interviewing the neighbors of a serial killer, bank robber, any crime. "He was such a quiet normal neighbor, always said hello etc"

 

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

Ahhh.....one of the "if you ain't with us, you're against us" crowd.

You need to realise that the world isn't black and white and that knee-jerk reactions can have detrimental unintended effects.

Just make a point, he didn't kill 22 innocent men, women and children because he was "British" He killed them because he was a muslim. And we all know that not all muslims are blowing people up, but I think it's safe to say that, without fear of contradiction, that those people who are blowing people up are muslim.

[Prbkk]

5 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Easy to say with obvious racist remarks i belive its called Bradford. You say its been renamed could you tell me when yhis was please. So anything you say i would not belive anyway. But you have a good day ok.

You are quite right. Terrorism provides some low-lifes to act out their racist agenda with little scrutiny. It's terrible that many innocents get caught up in it. We saw it in the US after 9/11 with various nutters attacking, even killing, those of South Asian appearance 

[nontabury]

5 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Easy to say with obvious racist remarks i belive its called Bradford. You say its been renamed could you tell me when yhis was please. So anything you say i would not belive anyway. But you have a good day ok.

Since when did Islam or the followers of Islam become a race?

 There's 's me thinking it's an intolerant and deadly cult,masquerading as a religion.

[jak2002003]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Since when did Islam or the followers of Islam become a race?

 There's 's me thinking it's an intolerant and deadly cult,masquerading as a religion.

When people tell me I am raciest for being against Islam and Muslims... I immediately stop wasting my time talking to them.... they clearly have no intelligence to even be talking about such things... and no understanding. 

 

They need to look up  the meaning of a 'race' of people, and then look up what 'religion' means.. before they even start to talk to others about these matters. 

 

It would be the same as saying.... if someone does not like Christianity.. they are raciest?  If they don't believe or accept fortune tellers.. they are raciest!!!  lol. 

[Dagnabbit]

34 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

What puzzles me: we see these apparently normal kids become radicalised in the blink of an eye. One minute going to the football and almost the next minute chanting prayers in the street. How does this happen so fast? What is the trigger? Are there no alarm bells? The Imam mentioned something about getting an evil look from this kid but nothing else out of the ordinary. It's peculiar.

 

They are raised in segregation.

 

Think about it - you are raised speaking a different language, wearing different clothes, eating different food, living culturally different. All good till you become a young man and the community that segregated you cannot offer you sustenance, other than unemployment benefits.

 

The community that raises these men has nothing for them when they mature, yet they cannot find work in mainstream Britain, they are simply too different. They don't fit in, they think we are kuffir, they don't have the skills.

 

So they are young and angry and they blame the natives for their plight.

[Prbkk]

2 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

They are raised in segregation.

 

Think about it - you are raised speaking a different language, wearing different clothes, eating different food, living culturally different. All good till you become a young man and the community that segregated you cannot offer you sustenance, other than unemployment benefits.

 

The community that raises these men has nothing for them when they mature, yet they cannot find work in mainstream Britain, they are simply too different. They don't fit in, they think we are kuffir, they don't have the skills.

 

So they are young and angry and they blame the natives for their plight.

Yes, I get the 'slow-burn' idea but still puzzled by the final, very big, step, ie from disaffected outcast to mass murderer. It seems to be a snap.

[ddavidovsky]

6 hours ago, CharlieK said:

If this really was the case, Why is most of the violence arab against arab? Is it that they cant take it out on Israel so they kill each other in the name of islam?    

You are confused, as is everyone else in this thread who has no idea what these attacks such as this one in Manchester are all about.

 

It's  a jihadist terrorist attack against the west in general. 9/11 was the mother of all such attacks. The root cause is  damaged pride due to the reason I mentioned. Of course they can't take it out on Israel directly because Israel will retaliate massively against the Palestinians, so they took it out originally on the US (the stated motive for 9/11). Since then, Muslims have been vilified so deeply by the west that they feel like second-class citizens of the world - they now have a monumental chip on their shoulder, and the brutal elements (which evolution produces in every society) are responding by asserting themselves in ham-fisted fashion by seemingly-random terrorist attacks, and even by declaring their own state, which is the ultimate in self-assertion.

 

It's sociology 101. And I repeat, these attacks will continue until the root cause is addressed and some pride is restored to Muslims to redress their grievance. The first step is acknowledge their grievance, which is the endless screaming agony of the Palestine situation. Once some pride is collectively restored, the terrorism problem will melt away.
 

The conflict between Sunnis and Shias is something else and goes back to the early days of Islam. It's not related to jihadist attacks against the west.

[Watchful]

7 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

The conflict between Sunnis and Shias is something else and goes back to the early days of Islam. It's not related to jihadist attacks against the west.

Yes and no.  

 

This conflict clearly shows the violence that is pervasive in Islam. In a modern world with nuclear arms, there is no place for this violent, despicable religion. 

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, Watchful said:

There is a real problem ending these suicide attacks. I mean, it's hard to punish a dead person.

 

There is a solution, however, but it is repugnant. It does work and has been used by the Mafia for eons. The answer is to kill every member without exception of the suicide bomber's family.  In short, you offer them something they fear more than death ... extinction!

 

Think about it, a policy like this changes the game and it tells the terrorists:

 

If you plan on killing our families, be sure to kill your family first. For if you don't, WE WILL and it will be done painfully without an ounce of dignity for your family.

Yes I'm up for that, however I do envisage some problems getting a bill passed in parliament to enforce it though.

Edited May 24, 2017 by vogie

[Kadilo]

When people tell me I am raciest for being against Islam and Muslims... I immediately stop wasting my time talking to them.... they clearly have no intelligence to even be talking about such things... and no understanding. 
 
They need to look up  the meaning of a 'race' of people, and then look up what 'religion' means.. before they even start to talk to others about these matters. 
 
It would be the same as saying.... if someone does not like Christianity.. they are raciest?  If they don't believe or accept fortune tellers.. they are raciest!!!  lol. 

You might get a bit more credibility if you could even spell racist before you start speaking about other people's intelligence etc .


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

The grammar police are frowned upon here, read the content not the spelling. Many members do not have english as a first language on here!

Edited May 24, 2017 by vogie

[swanny321]

  How truly awful!

[metisdead]

More off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[iReason]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

The grammar police are frowned on here, read the content not the spelling. Many members do not have english as a first language on here!

 

Not that hard to look up.

 

Especially if one decides to repeatedly throw around such a strong word as racist.

(Strange, it's the only word misspelled)

 

P.S. In your lecture, it appears you are confused about the difference between spelling and grammar.

Is english your first language?

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Prbkk said:

What puzzles me: we see these apparently normal kids become radicalised in the blink of an eye. One minute going to the football and almost the next minute chanting prayers in the street. How does this happen so fast? What is the trigger? Are there no alarm bells? The Imam mentioned something about getting an evil look from this kid but nothing else out of the ordinary. It's peculiar.

I was wondering about that too.

 

Suicide bombers die in their attack, but surely their friends would have some idea as to why and how these people born in the UK (or Europe) turned into terrorists?

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Not that hard to look up.

 

Especially if one decides to repeatedly throw around such a strong word as racist.

(Strange, it's the only word misspelled)

 

P.S. In your lecture, it appears you are confused about the difference between spelling and grammar.

Is english your first language?

Do you get pleasure from making cheap jibes?

[Scott]

Get back on the topic and stay on it or suspensions WILL be issued.  

[Dagnabbit]

48 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

You are confused, as is everyone else in this thread who has no idea what these attacks such as this one in Manchester are all about.

 

It's  a jihadist terrorist attack against the west in general. 9/11 was the mother of all such attacks. The root cause is  damaged pride due to the reason I mentioned. Of course they can't take it out on Israel directly because Israel will retaliate massively against the Palestinians, so they took it out originally on the US (the stated motive for 9/11). Since then, Muslims have been vilified so deeply by the west that they feel like second-class citizens of the world - they now have a monumental chip on their shoulder, and the brutal elements (which evolution produces in every society) are responding by asserting themselves in ham-fisted fashion by seemingly-random terrorist attacks, and even by declaring their own state, which is the ultimate in self-assertion.

 

It's sociology 101. And I repeat, these attacks will continue until the root cause is addressed and some pride is restored to Muslims to redress their grievance. The first step is acknowledge their grievance, which is the endless screaming agony of the Palestine situation. Once some pride is collectively restored, the terrorism problem will melt away.
 

The conflict between Sunnis and Shias is something else and goes back to the early days of Islam. It's not related to jihadist attacks against the west.

Apologist.

 

Nobody needs to 'restore their pride'. Nobody needs to acknowledge their grievance.

 

Bleeding hearts need to bleed out already./

[ddavidovsky]

22 minutes ago, Watchful said:

Yes and no.  

 

This conflict clearly shows the violence that is pervasive in Islam. In a modern world with nuclear arms, there is no place for this violent, despicable religion. 

You are feeling insecure and so are determined to blame Islam no matter what, so discussion is probably pointless.

 

I just ask you to consider that:

- Violence is pervasive in any culture (including western cultures) that has reasons to assert itself. Examples are commonplace.

- Attacks against the west are only a recent phenomenon (I explained why). For centuries there has been no animosity between Islam and the west. In my own experience Muslims are in general are very friendly and hospitable to foreigners - far more so than vice versa. To assume the cause of the terrorism is Islam itself is a mistake that is making the situation worse.

 

Consider how it would be Palestine was a Christian country and was brutally invaded and taken over by an alien culture and that conflict went on and on, gradually getting worse, causing Christians to feel abused and degraded. Christians the world over would be up in arms against this atrocity, just as aggressively.

 

Solve the root cause and the terrorism will go away. Your simplistic solution is to obliterate Islam, or at least reform it, but be realistic, neither is going to happen - and while they are on the back foot they will only dig themselves deeper in. I offer a more practical solution.

[Watchful]

27 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Consider how it would be Palestine was a Christian country and was brutally invaded and taken over by an alien culture and that conflict went on and on, gradually getting worse, causing Christians to feel abused and degraded. Christians the world over would be up in arms against this atrocity, just as aggressively.

 

 

Isn't this exactly what the Muslims did to the Jews? Isn't it strange how the Muslims ignore that the Jews were in Palestine long, long before them.

 

Fortunately, I have solution to the Muslim Problem! We have been screwing around trying to prevent Iran from getting nuclear arms. Instead, let's give nukes to both the Sunnis and the Shias.  They are so stupid that they'll kill each other off in a few weeks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

14 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Yes I did miss it. It sounds awful and hopefully such attitudes are still a tiny minority of the immigrant population. Surely you can still get a decent curry there? Unfortunately scum exist in all religions and all races. The Britain First/BNP mob are good representatives of the more indigenous "white" scum.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

People can still get good food there, if they are brave enough. These out bursts are sporadic, and yes they are stated by fanatical Islamist. But the problem is, that the not so fanatical Islamist see this on the television. They become worried that the fanatics might just win. So they start to change their attitudes due to fear. And the non violent are parents of kids that might not agree with their parents passiveness. These kids will grow up one day and they will have a choice to make. Be harassed by the fighters of Allah, or join and help the black flag of Islam, fly over 10 Downing street. As the faithful have promised.

 There is an army growing in any country that has these people as 'invited' guests.Our police must hang their heads in shame, with feelings on impotency.

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Finally, for all the defensiveness from apologists for Islam on here. I have yet to see Islamic mass protests against this atrocity or a storm of protest from Muslims on social media. Excuse me if I retain my skepticism

I feel I am right in thinking that many of the Muslim/Islamic leaders are just hypocrites, holding prayers for PR yet they are the ones who could if they want "out" the radical extremists from their community.

 

Muslim men prayed for victims of the attack at a mosque in Manchester.

hypocrites

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

I gather the suicide bomber's parents came to England in '94 to escape Gadaffi?

 

Western forces deposed Gadaffi, and presumably his family were happy that this happened?  So why did the son go to Libya to get involved in terrorist tactics?

 

It doesn't make any sense to me - but I could well be missing something here as there are doubtless other issues involved.

[transam]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I gather the suicide bomber's parents came to England in '94 to escape Gadaffi?

 

Western forces deposed Gadaffi, and presumably his family were happy that this happened?  So why did the son go to Libya to get involved in terrorist tactics?

 

It doesn't make any sense to me - but I could well be missing something here as there are doubtless other issues involved.

Because all individuals think differently, and for sure nobody knows what others are thinking about. My mum thought I was a choir boy but............

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I would think its very hard for doctors,paramedics, and nurses to accept Islam as the religion of tolerance, when they are digging nails and metal out of children's eyes.Or trying to repair ,badly broken bones.Or trying to stop a young concert goer, from bleeding to death.It must be hard for a Christian vicar, or priest to accept that his God is the same God of Islam.Or to try to forgive the POS who deliberately blew himself to bits and took 22(to date) kids with him, whose days has started out with excitement and the concert to come.I cannot imagine how the parents of these dead and damaged children must be feeling.How many of them expected to outlive their kids, or for them to die in such a evil and tragic way.

 

[JHolmesJr]

This is the tipping point.

 

I think life for muzzlims is going to get very hard in the coming weeks and months.

 

targeting young girls is the last straw.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, JHolmesJr said:

This is the tipping point.

 

I think life for muzzlims is going to get very hard in the coming weeks and months.

 

targeting young girls is the last straw.

And you seriously think this will improve the situation - as opposed to resulting in even more radicalised/terrorist moslems?

[nontabury]

4 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

This is the tipping point.

 

I think life for muzzlims is going to get very hard in the coming weeks and months.

 

targeting young girls is the last straw.

They'd already targeted many young girls, in Rotherham and many other towns.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, nontabury said:

They'd already targeted many young girls, in Rotherham and many other towns.

Which is an entirely different matter that should be easily solved by lengthy prison terms to discourage others.  Unless, of course, they were born elsewhere - in which case they should be deported back to their home countries after serving the lengthy prison term.

 

I'm more concerned as to why some moslems, who were born in the UK and grew up in the country, turned into radical terrorists.

 

This particular atrocity is particularly difficult to understand as his parents fled Libya?