British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

[simon43]

Unfortunately IMHO, none of the strong actions needed to eradicate this type of terrorism menace from the UK will ever see the light of day. 

 

The terrorism is now home-grown, brought to our shores with the first wave of Muslim immigrants some 50 years ago, when I was a child growing up in the city of Leicester.

 

Had strong action and rules been taken at that stage to ensure complete integration of these immigrants into our society, (and compliance with the accepted 'way of life' in the UK), then IMHO, the UK (and other European countries) would not be in the state that they are now re terrorism carried out by Muslims.

 

Instead, we allowed the Muslim community to isolate themselves from us; we allowed them to implement hugely-discriminatory practices against women and (worst of all), we allowed Political Correctness to become our 'white flag' to the threat of Muslim terrorism.

 

The Muslim community has NEVER integrated with the existing population, and has never made any attempt to do so.  

 

And so, time and time again, we now see bombs and murders on the streets of the UK, carried out by Muslims who were born in the UK.

 

What to do?  It doesn't matter what we think - the politicians of all parties will NEVER implement any solution that could actually eliminate or seriously reduce the threat of Muslim terrorism in the UK - it's a totally lost cause.

[Basil B]

9 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Mmm didnt the Catholic church try to do that as well in the middle ages.

and two wrongs do not make a right...

 

I did not give my consent to be baptised, and would not had I been old enough to say no.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, thaihome said:

Funny, but I have personally attended two weddings of Christian men marrying muslim women, both taking place in the Father's home with his blessings.  Your intial error doesn't help the credibility of the remainder of your post. 

 

It seems to me that the most vehemently anti-muslims here tend have the least experience with muslims. Their experience seems to consist of mostly watching you-tube videos by demogues intent on whipping up hatred for their personal gain.

 

TH 

Would 4 years in Saudi working with Saudis, and even a trip to Wahhabi land ( the way they treated guest workers there was outrageous ) qualify me to have an opinion?

I could never agree to be ruled by sharia in a western country, though I had to put up with it in their country ( my choice to stay ).

 

The 2 Muslim fathers must be either apostates or in name only Muslims. Only Christian women are allowed to marry Muslim men in Saudi, and the children MUST be brought up as Muslims.

On arrival in Saudi I was told never to go near a Saudi woman as their husband/ father could then legally kill me, and I was assaulted for merely being in an elevator with Saudi women ( they and their husbands came in after me ).

Edited May 24, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[goldenbrwn1]

The New York Times have apparently released more info , including an image of the crime scene that includes the detonator! The British authorities are going to be even more pi##ed with the US with yet more leaks. https://nyti.ms/2qWDpJZ

Edited May 24, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[sandrabbit]

The father of Salman Abedi, the suicide bomber who killed 22 people in Manchester, has claimed that his son is innocent.

Speaking at his home in Tripoli, Ramadan Abedi said: ‘I was really shocked when I saw the news, I still don’t believe it.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/manchester-bombers-father-says-son-innocent-143512091.html

 

 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Would 4 years in Saudi working with Saudis, and even a trip to Wahhabi land ( the way they treated guest workers there was outrageous ) qualify me to have an opinion?

I could never agree to be ruled by sharia in a western country, though I had to put up with it in their country ( my choice to stay ).

 

The 2 Muslim fathers must be either apostates or in name only Muslims. Only Christian women are allowed to marry Muslim men in Saudi, and the children MUST be brought up as Muslims.

On arrival in Saudi I was told never to go near a Saudi woman as their husband/ father could then legally kill me, and I was assaulted for merely being in an elevator with Saudi women ( they and their husbands came in after me ).

Off Topic. However, again you are one of the people talking about a very conservative version of Islam /Sharia Law.  I personally know many Thai Muslim families in Pattaya over the past twenty years, some of whom have inter married with Buddhists with minimal issues. Most of the Thai Muslims I know attend a mosque at least once a week on a Friday,. they do not view themselves as Muslim in name only. As Thaihome has pointed out there are a number of posters who talk about Muslims as though they are all the same in their religious and cultural practices which is absolute nonsense. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by simple1

[lovelomsak]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Off Topic. However, again you are one of the people talking about a very conservative version of Islam /Sharia Law.  I personally know many Thai Muslim families in Pattaya over the past twenty years, some of whom have inter married with Buddhists with minimal issues. Most of the Thai Muslims I know attend a mosque at least once a week on a Friday,. they do not view themselves as Muslim in name only. As Thaihome has pointed out there are a number of posters who talk about Muslims as though they are all the same in their religious and cultural practices which is absolute nonsense. 

Gee That is not rocket science to know people of one faith practice and participate within differently.Of course the way the practice their beliefs is individual. But as in all theologies the core belief is the same and I feel this is what thaibeachlover is talking about. It is the core of their belief that creats the issues they have brought to the world..

To keep denying this is avoiding the problem and trying to get around the real issues.or distract.

  I grew in a area that had a large mormon population. Mormons do not drink alcohol but many did and still believed they were mormons they just wanted acceptance by the rest of the community even if it meant going against church rules. 

 So yes people within a religion break the rules but are still lead by their beliefs.

Edited May 25, 2017 by lovelomsak

[yogi100]

22 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Have you ever been to Manchester?

 

Yes although I don't know what's that got to do with it.

 

Were you at the Arena when this atrocity took place. I wasn't either but I could see the people who were on the TV news channel and they were all young white people. I don't think I could make out a single Muslim but they're not great ones for concerts and music are they.

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Yes although I don't know what's that got to do with it.
 
Were you at the Arena when this atrocity took place. I wasn't either but I could see the people who were on the TV news channel and they were all young white people. I don't think I could make out a single Muslim but they're not great ones for concerts and music are they.

I can't seem to find your post on which my comment about you ever going to Manchester was made. But no, I wasn't at the Arena, thankfully.

[yogi100]

9 hours ago, simon43 said:

Unfortunately IMHO, none of the strong actions needed to eradicate this type of terrorism menace from the UK will ever see the light of day. 

 

The terrorism is now home-grown, brought to our shores with the first wave of Muslim immigrants some 50 years ago, when I was a child growing up in the city of Leicester.

 

Had strong action and rules been taken at that stage to ensure complete integration of these immigrants into our society, (and compliance with the accepted 'way of life' in the UK), then IMHO, the UK (and other European countries) would not be in the state that they are now re terrorism carried out by Muslims.

 

Instead, we allowed the Muslim community to isolate themselves from us; we allowed them to implement hugely-discriminatory practices against women and (worst of all), we allowed Political Correctness to become our 'white flag' to the threat of Muslim terrorism.

 

The Muslim community has NEVER integrated with the existing population, and has never made any attempt to do so.  

 

And so, time and time again, we now see bombs and murders on the streets of the UK, carried out by Muslims who were born in the UK.

 

What to do?  It doesn't matter what we think - the politicians of all parties will NEVER implement any solution that could actually eliminate or seriously reduce the threat of Muslim terrorism in the UK - it's a totally lost cause.

In the past I've mocked people who say they can see a civil war eventually breaking out in Britain. I'm not so sure about it now because things are gradually but steadily going from bad to worse.

 

It does not look good for our future generations. A new Islamic Empire is slowly developing that will dwarf the Ottoman Empire.

[lovelomsak]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

I can't seem to find your post on which my comment about you ever going to Manchester was made. But no, I wasn't at the Arena, thankfully.

Look up post 353 you will find it.

[yogi100]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I can't seem to find your post on which my comment about you ever going to Manchester was made. But no, I wasn't at the Arena, thankfully.

 

It was my reply to your post about "the countless Muslim doctors, nurses, first responders, police officers and other professionals currently engaged in dealing with this atrocity."

 

[cmsally]

When it comes to these issues, the Europeans need to forget their tradition of apologetic defence. In the case of Muslims it almost feels as though they (the authorities) are transposing their argument onto this problem in an attempt to explain it away. To many people it seems as though those in authority are creating the apologetic defense and in doing so are on the perpetrators' side instead of the victims'.

The existence of an apologetic tradition both in the classical tradition and as a normal word practiced in modern society have allowed this situation to get way out of hand. The British are usually way too apologetic anyway and this a weak spot.

The situation of a Pan Nationalist group getting the upper hand in society should never have happened, lets see the Brits trying to aplogise themselves out of this one!

[yogi100]

1 minute ago, cmsally said:

When it comes to these issues, the Europeans need to forget their tradition of apologetic defence. In the case of Muslims it almost feels as though they (the authorities) are transposing their argument onto this problem in an attempt to explain it away. To many people it seems as though those in authority are creating the apologetic defense and in doing so are on the perpetrators' side instead of the victims'.

The existence of an apologetic tradition both in the classical tradition and as a normal word practiced in modern society have allowed this situation to get way out of hand. The British are usually way too apologetic anyway and this a weak spot.

The situation of a Pan Nationalist group getting the upper hand in society should never have happened, lets see the Brits trying to aplogise themselves out of this one!

 

What's a 'Pan Nationalist group'?

[simple1]

31 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Gee That is not rocket science to know people of one faith practice and participate within differently.Of course the way the practice their beliefs is individual. But as in all theologies the core belief is the same and I feel this is what thaibeachlover is talking about. It is the core of their belief that creats the issues they have brought to the world..

To keep denying this is avoiding the problem and trying to get around the real issues.or distract.

  I grew in a area that had a large mormon population. Mormons do not drink alcohol but many did and still believed they were mormons they just wanted acceptance by the rest of the community even if it meant going against church rules. 

 So yes people within a religion break the rules but are still lead by their beliefs.

It would make a pleasant change for certain posters not to keep making massive generalisations & focus on those groups with their Salafi jihadist ideology, committing these terrible crimes

[cmsally]

2 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

What's a 'Pan Nationalist group'?

It is a group that adheres more strongly to ties that are outside political national borders.In the case of Islam there are many who push for unity of religion over and above loyalty to the State.

Terrorism such as that in Manchester is essentially actions of a Pan nationalistic terrorist.

Their objectives and actions are not state bound or driven by a group within the state border.

[yogi100]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

It is a group that adheres more strongly to ties that are outside political national borders.In the case of Islam there are many who push for unity of religion over and above loyalty to the State.

Terrorism such as that in Manchester is essentially actions of a Pan nationalistic terrorist.

Their objectives and actions are not state bound or driven by a group within the state border.

 

Well it's well and truly been allowed to happen in large parts of the UK now with their own politicians gaining influence and power in mainstream politics.

 

The mayor of London is a Muslim of Pakistani heritage.

In the East London borough of Tower Hamlets 34 of the 52 local councillors are Bangladeshi Muslims. Their ex mayor, Luftur Rahman is awaiting trial for electoral fraud.

 

It seems that certain Muslims are often quite keen to embrace democracy after all.

 

It looks like one of your Pan Nationalist groups has already got its feet well and truly under the table in large parts of our capital city.

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

It would make a pleasant change for certain posters not to keep making massive generalisations & focus on those groups with their Salafi jihadist ideology, committing these terrible crimes

I am not sure if you have been following the discussion between yogi100 and brewsterbugen. 

But Brewsterbudgen claimed in post 277 if you read it. That many muslim doctors etc were helping at the arena. Yogi100 respended he watched the news and videos and saw none. So he called brewsterbudgen on his falsehood and speculation. Brewsterbudgen came back with post 353 which means nothing.

 I feel you are going after the wrong guy here if you wish to abhere to your post 344. .Brewsterbudgen was making generalizations without any proof just his imagination.. so talk to him not yogi100.

Edited May 25, 2017 by lovelomsak

[simple1]

Theresa May to raise concerns of investigation leaks in US media

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/24/theresa-may-to-tackle-donald-trump-over-manchester-bombing-evidence

Edited May 25, 2017 by simple1

[Grouse]

The UK PREVENT program seems to be a good move. It encourages Muslims to report any signs of radicalisation to the authorities. Widely hated by Muslim communities, it is getting increased funding.

 

I still favour punishing the communities for harbouring or even encouraging  such creatures. Maybe we should demolish the local mosque used by such types. It would certainly give the Imams pause and the community would have to pay for a new mosque. Foreign funding for religious groups should be banned forthwith.

[simple1]

20 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

I am not sure if you have been following the discussion between yogi100 and brewsterbugen. 

But Brewsterbudgen claimed in post 277 if you read it. That many muslim doctors etc were helping at the arena. Yogi100 respended he watched the news and videos and saw none. So he called brewsterbudgen on his falsehood and speculation. Brewsterbudgen came back with post 353 which means nothing.

 I feel you are going after the wrong guy here if you wish to abhere to your post 344. .Brewsterbudgen was making generalizations without any proof just his imagination.. so talk to him not yogi100.

I made a general comment, nothing to do with your assumptions above. Although it must be said there is a core of posters,  which includes Yogi100, posting / liking  commentary in breach of forum rules.

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Theresa may to raise concerns of investigation leaks in US media

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/24/theresa-may-to-tackle-donald-trump-over-manchester-bombing-evidence

America is spiralling downward rapidly. They appear to have lost their moral compass. GCHQ should cut cooperation until they demonstrate that they can behave responsibly. Anybody leaking crucial information should be jailed for life. 

[cmsally]

The University of Salford (where it seems the bomber attended), voted against PREVENT.

[chrisinth]

12 hours ago, Watchful said:

Yesterday, I saw on the news one of the top police officials (indeed possibly the head of police in Manchester) deliver an address to the media. Like you he seemed far, far more concerned about "hate speech" than the murder of innocent children.

 

How can the people of Manchester take these police officials seriously? Their response to this tragedy is to worry about hate speech? British people need to replace bloody fools like that.

 

IMO, a perfectly reasonable response from the police to be concerned about hate speech. The problem with it is that it is like a virus the speed in which one person's viewpoint infects others in the same frame of mind. Before you know it, actions are taken against the nearest objects of the hatred, innocent or not, and the situation is out of control.

 

Effectively the mob wins the battle but loses the war. Playing into the terrorist's hands.

 

So yes, they should be very concerned with hate speech. It should go without saying what their (police) views are on the murders.

[Prbkk]

53 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

I am not sure if you have been following the discussion between yogi100 and brewsterbugen. 

But Brewsterbudgen claimed in post 277 if you read it. That many muslim doctors etc were helping at the arena. Yogi100 respended he watched the news and videos and saw none. So he called brewsterbudgen on his falsehood and speculation. Brewsterbudgen came back with post 353 which means nothing.

 I feel you are going after the wrong guy here if you wish to abhere to your post 344. .Brewsterbudgen was making generalizations without any proof just his imagination.. so talk to him not yogi100.

That's a bit unfair. Of course many Muslims have condemned the attacks, have worked in the various emergency response teams, continue to work as members of the police force and military. Other than the condemnations it's not widely reported because it's not relevant and in any case it's not what people want to hear right now (understandably).

There is a growing danger of tarring everyone with the same brush rather than the need to focus on the small minority who engage in this lunacy ...or provide succour to those who do. 

The last thing needed is a kristallnacht type witch hunt that would punish the innocent and drive those intent on evil even further under cover.

[brewsterbudgen]

11 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 

It was my reply to your post about "the countless Muslim doctors, nurses, first responders, police officers and other professionals currently engaged in dealing with this atrocity."

 

Thanks. There is a video by one of the Muslim doctors in Manchester which might have been what I was referring to. But either way, any resident of Manchester and the North West in general will be able to confirm that there are countless Muslims who are well integrated and performing valuable roles in society.

 

[Prbkk]

I don't disagree that there needs to be much soul searching in the Muslim community about how to deal with this issue. On the other hand there are various reports that members of the community DID warn authorities about this guy, numerous times. But I agree that they need to be more proactive, just as they were at Finsbury Park in 2005 ( albeit after the horse had bolted and certainly not helped by the bizarre case against them by HSBC).

[dick dasterdly]

I gather the terrorist's father and a brother are in Libya at the moment - and both are linked to extremist organisations?

 

Time to find a way to ensure they cannot return to the UK.

[brewsterbudgen]

I gather the terrorist's father and a brother are in Libya at the moment - and both are linked to extremist organisations?
 
Time to find a way to ensure they cannot return to the UK.

Good to see that they have been arrested by the Libyan authorities. It will be interesting to see what they do with them.

[lovelomsak]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

Good to see that they have been arrested by the Libyan authorities. It will be interesting to see what they do with them.

Where does it say they were arrested?