Do Health and Insurance Concerns Reduce Your Enjoyment of Retirement in Thailand?

[sirineou]

Not only does it reduce my enjoyment of retirement in Thailand , it has  prevent it.

 

A personal medical development has created a preexisting condition that requires  monitor and in ten years additional surgical innervation and would never be covered by insurance in Thailand.

Further more if I retired I would loose the insurance provided by my job and would not be covered by Medicare for an other five years So I need to keep my job.

Mean time monitoring the Obama care / Trump Care issue in the US and see what happens with preexisting conditions. ( it don't look good)

In two years if I can self insuring under what ever medical scheme we settle under is viable,

  on to plan  B.

otherwise it looks like I will have to work until age 65

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by sirineou

[teddog]

17 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I'd suggest learning to use GoFundMe if that's your plan.

 

Last time I checked Thai ambulances can't drop you at one of those great Indian hospitals.  So you'll be 2 hours away from that great cheap care, and one hour away from bleeding out, and in no condition to hop on an airplane.  And be honest, even a 2 hour flight requires a few days of lining up a seat, getting to the airport, and getting settled in to your posh new hospital room.  By that time, even a simple fracture could go gangrenous on ya.

 

Will you change your UserID to "Stumpy"?

 

 

Rubbish,no clue,  but keep up the payments (it makes you happy)  LOL

[impulse]

9 hours ago, teddog said:

Rubbish,no clue,  but keep up the payments (it makes you happy)  LOL

 

So, you're going to be one of these guys...

 

How do you figure your plan would have worked for this guy (who thought he had employer provided insurance, but didn't)?

 

(Notice in the photo that he's on a jet.  With support staff.  That's a $50,000+ invoice).

 

Or look for the current saga of the 68 year old British woman who just lost her son and husband and can't pay.  Or the Canadian woman.  Or The Aussie woman.  Or the guy whose life was recently saved, but they left him hanging on fixing his crippling injuries until he scraped up the dosh.  Or the other scads of people who had to beg funds from their friends and family because they had to be treated before they could travel.

 

My own experience with heart surgery showed me how tricky the logistics are of getting treated as I waited for 2 days in hospital for my insurance company to come back to work on Monday before they'd wheel me in.  Covered 100%, BTW, and not a dime out of my pocket for the insurance, either- since it's employer provided.  (Also, sitting for the 2 days was at my insistence because I wouldn't come out of pocket for the surgery until I was pre-approved by the insurance company.  I've had too many bad experiences when they didn't pre-approve treatment that they could then claim was non-emergency and pay out at a much lower percentage because it's right there in the fine print on page 109.)

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by impulse

[alfieconn]

43 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

So, you're going to be one of these guys...

 

How do you figure your plan would have worked for this guy (who thought he had employer provided insurance, but didn't)?

 

(Notice in the photo that he's on a jet.  With support staff.  That's a $50,000+ invoice).

 

Or look for the current saga of the 68 year old British woman who just lost her son and husband and can't pay.  Or the Canadian woman.  Or The Aussie woman.  Or the guy whose life was recently saved, but they left him hanging on fixing his crippling injuries until he scraped up the dosh.  Or the other scads of people who had to beg funds from their friends and family because they had to be treated before they could travel.

 

My own experience with heart surgery showed me how tricky the logistics are of getting treated as I waited for 2 days in hospital for my insurance company to come back to work on Monday before they'd wheel me in.  Covered 100%, BTW, and not a dime out of my pocket for the insurance, either- since it's employer provided.  (Also, sitting for the 2 days was at my insistence because I wouldn't come out of pocket for the surgery until I was pre-approved by the insurance company.  I've had too many bad experiences when they didn't pre-approve treatment that they could then claim was non-emergency and pay out at a much lower percentage because it's right there in the fine print on page 109.)

 

So are you saying that some Policies don't pay out fully if it is non-emergency ! 

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

So are you saying that some Policies don't pay out fully if it is non-emergency ! 

 

Some policies require pre-approval if it's a non-emergency procedure, or they pay out at less than the normal reimbursement rate.  

 

My guess is that they want to be informed in advance so they can negotiate the best terms with the hospital before the treatment begins.

 

Edit:  Another reason would be to put a stop to any inappropriate procedures, or inefficient portions that would drive up their costs.  For example, staying in hospital to recover for days and days when they want you out of there as soon as possible.

 

It's really not an unreasonable requirement, as long as you know about it going in.  And I've never had a policy that requires pre-approval of emergency procedures.  But then you can be in an argument about whether it was an emergency or not.  That's what I feared.  My heart surgery needed to be done, but it wasn't necessarily urgent.

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by impulse

[NancyL]

I assist elderly expats who find themselves with medical problems through Lanna Care Net (www.LannaCareNet.org)  in Chiang Mai.  My primary area of responsibility is to respond when an older English-speaking resident expat is admitted to Suan Dok hospital, the large teaching hospital of CM University, and either says they don't have funds to pay the anticipated bill or doesn't appear to have family/friends available to help someone who is confused.

 

The majority of our older clients are admitted into the Orthopedic ward with fractures.  They didn't "plan" to have an accident and many of these accidents didn't involve them driving motorbikes, but often slip and falls at home, on a footpath or being hit by a motorbike.  Everyone, no matter how low their income or high their age, is able to afford personal accident insurance and these policies usually have zero deductible.  Incidentally, Suan Dok hospital will keep a patient in traction, stabilized, but often not perform surgery until half the anticipated cost of the hospital stay is deposited.  

 

It behooves everyone to have a good network of friends and emergency funds in a Thai bank -- a least 200,000 baht.  Even if someone is unconscious, it's possible for a friend or family member to go to a Thai bank with documentation from the hospital about the need to withdraw money for a hospital bill and the hospital will send a representation to the hospital to verify the story and pay the hospital directly for the needed up-front payment.  

 

There have been countless times when I've been frustrated in helping a client because they keep all their funds overseas and either aren't in any shape to make a transfer or can't because they've lost their ATM card, forgotten the PIN number (can happen after an accident),  can't use their computer because it's been damaged, etc.  Think about what would happen to you if you suddenly were in an accident, in a coma, and those around you had to access your funds, and needed information about your insurance, next-of-kin, who can make medical decisions, what medications you take regularly, and even such details as if you have pets that are locked in your condo and need to be fed.  

 

 

[impulse]

12 minutes ago, NancyL said:

The majority of our older clients are admitted into the Orthopedic ward with fractures.

....

Everyone, no matter how low their income or high their age, is able to afford personal accident insurance and these policies usually have zero deductible.

 

Do you have any company recommendations?  And which policies?  Cost estimates (even an order of magnitude- is it $5, $50 or $500 a month?)

 

And is Lanna Care available in all of Thailand, with participating hospitals?

 

Edit:  One last question, do bicycle and pedestrian accidents fall under personal accidents, or are they excluded?  I'd love to get something that covers me on my bicycle and walking down the sidewalk dodging the scooters.

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by impulse

[NancyL]

Lanna Care Net is a group of expats who help other expats.  Take a look at our website  www.LannaCareNet.org   We work closely with the English-speaking Consuls and Consulates, although if a client doesn't wish for us to notify their Consulate about them, we won't.

 

We're in Chiang Mai and assist people in CM and the surrounding area.  We also have a caseworker active in Chiang Rai.

 

Bangkok Insurance offers a personal accident policy at covers up to age 100 for about 8,000 baht/year.  The max payout is 200,000 baht for a broken bone, so it doesn't have a high payout, but there is no deductible.  It would go a long way in paying for a broken hip replacement at a gov't hospital.  Usually that's a bill of less than 250,000 baht.   Yes, it would cover for walking down the sidewalk and getting hit by a motorbike, but not if you're riding on a motorbike.  Yes, it would cover if you're riding on a bicycle.

 

Many other companies offer personal accident policies.

 

Incidentally, most men I assist in the orthopedic ward have osteoporosis and those that can afford to be tested are deficient in vitamin D and B12.  This is especially true if they're on the slim side, live on a diet of cheap Thai street food and drink alcohol regularly.  It's my belief that everyone over 65 should take a good multivitamin daily, something like Centrum Silver.  It's a cheap insurance policy, also.

 

 

[teddog]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

So, you're going to be one of these guys...

 

How do you figure your plan would have worked for this guy (who thought he had employer provided insurance, but didn't)?

 

(Notice in the photo that he's on a jet.  With support staff.  That's a $50,000+ invoice).

 

Or look for the current saga of the 68 year old British woman who just lost her son and husband and can't pay.  Or the Canadian woman.  Or The Aussie woman.  Or the guy whose life was recently saved, but they left him hanging on fixing his crippling injuries until he scraped up the dosh.  Or the other scads of people who had to beg funds from their friends and family because they had to be treated before they could travel.

 

My own experience with heart surgery showed me how tricky the logistics are of getting treated as I waited for 2 days in hospital for my insurance company to come back to work on Monday before they'd wheel me in.  Covered 100%, BTW, and not a dime out of my pocket for the insurance, either- since it's employer provided.  (Also, sitting for the 2 days was at my insistence because I wouldn't come out of pocket for the surgery until I was pre-approved by the insurance company.  I've had too many bad experiences when they didn't pre-approve treatment that they could then claim was non-emergency and pay out at a much lower percentage because it's right there in the fine print on page 109.)

 

 

 

 

4

.Here's a guy quoting specifics that 99+% of farang population will never come across  ..and if they did   INDIA  the saviour   , I'm not going into the ins and outs of your own personal problems, sat there pondering on your health insurance details for two days, awaiting whatever your insurer will /will not let you do.You should be as far away from Thailand as you can with your condition (s)

 

  Me?  no not a dime out of pocket, including (none) health insurance collectables, so a shedful of money saving there, of which I am sure you will join me on a self-congratulatory note

 

  Yes, I am sure when undergoing that heart by-pass, you presented yourself as a non- stretcher case (ie walked in)now at 2 million a throw, compare that with under 70,000 baht a throw (India) in deluxe surroundings, which one to have? LOL   hopefully stretchered in to save me walking. 

 

  anyway I hope I did not keep you awake all last night searching for your figures,but thank anyway  (they are binned)...and if I may say that $150-$180 monthly  insurance premium seems an awful lot of money ,when in good health

Edited June 5, 2017 by teddog

[rog2015]

It seems that having a card to confirm you have Private Insurance would insure you were treated at a Private Hospital but if you don't would having a couple of Credit Cards in your wallet be almost as good to get treatment at a Private Hospital?

[teddog]

Just now, rog2015 said:

It seems that having a card to confirm you have Private Insurance would insure you were treated at a Private Hospital but if you don't would having a couple of Credit Cards in your wallet be almost as good to get treatment at a Private Hospital?

 

Sure would, but both would be emptied at a rate of knots that would make you blink, keep well away from private hospitals, and the likes of BUPA ...the govt. ones are OK

[NancyL]

1 minute ago, rog2015 said:

It seems that having a card to confirm you have Private Insurance would insure you were treated at a Private Hospital but if you don't would having a couple of Credit Cards in your wallet be almost as good to get treatment at a Private Hospital?

Yes, a couple credit cards, along with an ATM card from a Thai bank are always good to have in your wallet.  Along with an emergency card of who to call locally to authorize the hospital to use these cards if you can't speak for yourself.  But, be advised that once those cards are depleted and declined by the bank, you're likely to get turfed out to the closest gov't hospital.  Seen it happen numerous times.

[impulse]

36 minutes ago, teddog said:

.Here's a guy quoting specifics that 99+% of farang population will never come across  ..and if they did   INDIA  the saviour   , I'm not going into the ins and outs of your own personal problems, sat there pondering on your health insurance details for two days, awaiting whatever your insurer will /will not let you do.You should be as far away from Thailand as you can with your condition (s)

 

  Me?  no not a dime out of pocket, including (none) health insurance collectables, so a shedful of money saving there, of which I am sure you will join me on a self-congratulatory note

 

  Yes, I am sure when undergoing that heart by-pass, you presented yourself as a non- stretcher case (ie walked in)now at 2 million a throw, compare that with under 70,000 baht a throw (India) in deluxe surroundings, which one to have? LOL   hopefully stretchered in to save me walking. 

 

  anyway I hope I did not keep you awake all last night searching for your figures,but thank anyway  (they are binned)...and if I may say that $150-$180 monthly  insurance premium seems an awful lot of money ,when in good health

 

The vast majority of any retirement community is going to come across health issues -often expensive ones- whether they retire to Thailand or not.  And it rarely looks like you expect it to look- as if you can predict the day you'll keel over of a stroke or heart attack and hop a flight to India a couple days in advance.

 

Bottom line, you're spouting irresponsible advice that has killed some people, bankrupted a lot more, and ends the Thai retirement dreams of hundreds every year when they have to leave the country after spending their funds on hospitals.

 

 

 

 

[teddog]

16 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

The vast majority of any retirement community is going to come across health issues -often expensive ones- whether they retire to Thailand or not.  And it rarely looks like you expect it to look- as if you can predict the day you'll keel over of a stroke or heart attack and hop a flight to India a couple days in advance.

 

Bottom line, you're spouting irresponsible advice that has killed some people, bankrupted a lot more, and ends the Thai retirement dreams of hundreds every year when they have to leave the country after spending their funds on hospitals.

 

 

 

 

 

Must be one hell of an expensive medical insurance plan you have,especially with your health,bankrupted'  'killed a lot more'  you mean by not having the funds for one or either?     India  the way to go

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

It behooves everyone to have a good network of friends and emergency funds in a Thai bank -- a least 200,000 baht.  Even if someone is unconscious, it's possible for a friend or family member to go to a Thai bank with documentation from the hospital about the need to withdraw money for a hospital bill and the hospital will send a representation to the hospital to verify the story and pay the hospital directly for the needed up-front payment.

I'm glad to hear that, NacyL, as especially access to ones Rainy Day account in case of emergency is a serious matter – i.e. what does it help you have "all the money in the World", or just enough savings, if you are in a condition, where you're unable to lay hand on the funds.

 

Personally I'm so lucky, that I can trust – and rather do trust – my Thai girlfriend enough to make the Rainy Days savings shared accounts, so someone can easily act on my behalf, including an ATM for instant access of some level of cash; presuming that in a serious matter where more is needed than set aside, some hospital-documentation will allow access to other funds, not "earmarked" for self-insurance. I'm convinced my home-country bank will assist my few trusted relatives there, with what's available in such a condition upon proper documentation; I have considered making a proper proxy, which I should do. Remember, accidents can happens even to fit and/or younger persons.

 

I often mention Rainy Day account in these threads about health and accident – also because, you may have situations where an insurance don't cover all, or extra funds are needed, or... – but I rarely suggest shared accounts, as it's such a personal matter of trust.

 

However, I've been thinking about what others do, especially those gentlemen enjoying their otium more-or-less alone, and with distant or no relatives at home – the often criticized Immigration Information Sheet, requesting bank account number(s) and names of relatives, are actually useful, if available in emergency situations; just like any data your home-country embassy may file over expats (my Scandinavian country's Foreign Ministry has such a database) – so thanks, that was positive to learn from an experienced source.

Edited June 5, 2017 by khunPer

[al007]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

 

Incidentally, most men I assist in the orthopedic ward have osteoporosis and those that can afford to be tested are deficient in vitamin D and B12.  This is especially true if they're on the slim side, live on a diet of cheap Thai street food and drink alcohol regularly.  It's my belief that everyone over 65 should take a good multivitamin daily, something like Centrum Silver.  It's a cheap insurance policy, also.

 

 

Incidentally very sound advice, I do have a good supply of Centrum but have been forgetting to take them, real stupid, thanks for reminding me

[NancyL]

On 6/5/2017 at 2:18 PM, khunPer said:

I'm glad to hear that, NacyL, as especially access to ones Rainy Day account in case of emergency is a serious matter – i.e. what does it help you have "all the money in the World", or just enough savings, if you are in a condition, where you're unable to lay hand on the funds.

 

Personally I'm so lucky, that I can trust – and rather do trust – my Thai girlfriend enough to make the Rainy Days savings shared accounts, so someone can easily act on my behalf, including an ATM for instant access of some level of cash; presuming that in a serious matter where more is needed than set aside, some hospital-documentation will allow access to other funds, not "earmarked" for self-insurance. I'm convinced my home-country bank will assist my few trusted relatives there, with what's available in such a condition upon proper documentation; I have considered making a proper proxy, which I should do. Remember, accidents can happens even to fit and/or younger persons.

 

I often mention Rainy Day account in these threads about health and accident – also because, you may have situations where an insurance don't cover all, or extra funds are needed, or... – but I rarely suggest shared accounts, as it's such a personal matter of trust.

 

However, I've been thinking about what others do, especially those gentlemen enjoying their otium more-or-less alone, and with distant or no relatives at home – the often criticized Immigration Information Sheet, requesting bank account number(s) and names of relatives, are actually useful, if available in emergency situations; just like any data your home-country embassy may file over expats (my Scandinavian country's Foreign Ministry has such a database) – so thanks, that was positive to learn from an experienced source.

"Home country" banks, i.e. ones in U.S., Canada, U.K., Spain, the Netherlands, to mention a few countries where Lanna Care Net caseworkers have tried to help clients are absolutely the worst when it comes to helping out their overseas customers when they become disabled, even with trusted relatives who are regular customers of the same branch bank trying to act on behalf on the disabled person in Chiang Mai.  All sorts of nonsense about "protecting client confidentiality".  Even with a properly executed Power of Attorney, notarized by the person's Embassy/Consulate in Thailand, the home country relative often cannot gain access to the disabled persons bank account.

 

Many banks in the "developed" world have their own special "Power of Attorney" forms that have to be completed in person before you leave your home country.  They won't accept something you execute in Thailand, even their own form.  They can be absolute money suckers when it comes to holding onto the funds for people desperately in need.  By comparison, the Thai banks, esp. Bangkok Bank, are very compassionate when it comes to helping clients who become disabled yet need to access their funds.

[al007]

On 05/06/2017 at 0:29 PM, impulse said:

 

The vast majority of any retirement community is going to come across health issues -often expensive ones- whether they retire to Thailand or not.  And it rarely looks like you expect it to look- as if you can predict the day you'll keel over of a stroke or heart attack and hop a flight to India a couple days in advance.

 

Bottom line, you're spouting irresponsible advice that has killed some people, bankrupted a lot more, and ends the Thai retirement dreams of hundreds every year when they have to leave the country after spending their funds on hospitals.

 

 

 

 

You refer to Teddog spouting irresponsible advice, a little harsh, I know he favours India strongly, and I have experience surgery there and found it excellent at very affordable costs

 

For some India may not be a runner but for others it is very effective and cost saving

 

We all need to keep an open mind on the various options

 

No one is being forced to Follow Teddogs suggestions, and they are only suggestions !  !!   !!!

 

 

[Sheryl]

I think what the poster referred to was not the suggestion to get treatment in India but the idea that the comparatively lower cost of health care in India makes health insurance unncecessary for expats living in Thailand.

 

[impulse]

3 hours ago, al007 said:

You refer to Teddog spouting irresponsible advice, a little harsh, I know he favours India strongly, and I have experience surgery there and found it excellent at very affordable costs

 

For some India may not be a runner but for others it is very effective and cost saving

 

We all need to keep an open mind on the various options

 

No one is being forced to Follow Teddogs suggestions, and they are only suggestions !  !!   !!!

 

As Sheryl indicated, I have nothing against getting treated in India.  In fact, I'm pleased to know it's an option if I retire and no longer have employer insurance at 100%.

 

But I keep reading story after story of people getting into an accident or having a stroke or a heart attack or other situations in Thailand that require very expensive treatment, and preclude the possibility of getting over the India.  There are multiple horror stories of foreigners who are brought to the hospital unconscious and wake up to find themselves already millions of baht in debt before they even have a choice to get transferred to a cheaper hospital in Thailand.  And it may be weeks or months before they're well enough to travel without a very expensive repatriation package.  So India's not an option for them.  Insurance is.  (Edit:  The caveat being that you have to sign up for insurance before you find yourself in the hospital and in desperate financial straits)

 

Unfortunately, a lot of newcomers read the advice here and accept it because it's coming from long time residents.  Everybody loves advice when it looks like it's going to save them a good bit of money.  My goal is to present a counter point to advice from the people who haven't hit the live round yet in their game of Russian Roulette.  In general, I try to do it tactfully, but I have no qualms about getting brutally to the point if that's how the other guy responds.  

 

Your good point about various options goes both ways, and if you read our entire discussion, Teddog doesn't seem to see any way but his own as the only viable option.  I disagreed and the disagreement has escalated.

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by impulse

[teddog]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

As Sheryl indicated, I have nothing against getting treated in India.  In fact, I'm pleased to know it's an option if I retire and no longer have employer insurance at 100%.

 

But I keep reading story after story of people getting into an accident or having a stroke or a heart attack or other situations in Thailand that require very expensive treatment, and preclude the possibility of getting over the India.  There are multiple horror stories of foreigners who are brought to the hospital unconscious and wake up to find themselves already millions of baht in debt before they even have a choice to get transferred to a cheaper hospital in Thailand.  And it may be weeks or months before they're well enough to travel without a very expensive repatriation package.  So India's not an option for them.  Insurance is.  (Edit:  The caveat being that you have to sign up for insurance before you find yourself in the hospital and in desperate financial straits)

 

Unfortunately, a lot of newcomers read the advice here and accept it because it's coming from long time residents.  Everybody loves advice when it looks like it's going to save them a good bit of money.  My goal is to present a counter point to advice from the people who haven't hit the live round yet in their game of Russian Roulette.  In general, I try to do it tactfully, but I have no qualms about getting brutally to the point if that's how the other guy responds.  

 

Your good point about various options goes both ways, and if you read our entire discussion, Teddog doesn't seem to see any way but his own as the only viable option.  I disagreed and the disagreement has escalated.

 

 

 

Not really, I know what I'm doing, you do not.   Unconsiousness?   stability obtained govt. hospital, if private they do not get paid,   nurse from my fav hospital India arrives with whatever is needed drugs etc and accompanies me (Indigo)  3 seats booked back to India,  all done and dusted in 2 hours  easy and cheaper than cheap

   that $150 heath insurance plan you have,  does it involve medivac?     Obv I do not have one but personally , would be medivacced back to UK for free (if wanted)

Edited June 7, 2017 by teddog

[bazza73]

19 hours ago, NancyL said:

"Home country" banks, i.e. ones in U.S., Canada, U.K., Spain, the Netherlands, to mention a few countries where Lanna Care Net caseworkers have tried to help clients are absolutely the worst when it comes to helping out their overseas customers when they become disabled, even with trusted relatives who are regular customers of the same branch bank trying to act on behalf on the disabled person in Chiang Mai.  All sorts of nonsense about "protecting client confidentiality".  Even with a properly executed Power of Attorney, notarized by the person's Embassy/Consulate in Thailand, the home country relative often cannot gain access to the disabled persons bank account.

 

Many banks in the "developed" world have their own special "Power of Attorney" forms that have to be completed in person before you leave your home country.  They won't accept something you execute in Thailand, even their own form.  They can be absolute money suckers when it comes to holding onto the funds for people desperately in need.  By comparison, the Thai banks, esp. Bangkok Bank, are very compassionate when it comes to helping clients who become disabled yet need to access their funds.

Hi Nancy,

                     A couple of questions on this:

 

1/ Should I be carrying some kind of card that directs any ambulance to Suandoc Hospital in the event of an accident?

 

2/ I have 500,000 baht in an account with an ATM card specifically for medical emergencies. The retirement account with Bangkok Bank is 800,000. Another passbook account with Bangkok Bank fluctuates between 250,000 minimum balance and 1 million baht, used for living expenses. Is this enough?

 

3/ My son in Australia has Power of Attorney in the event of an accident. How long does it take for the overseas bank, in your experience, to release those funds?

 

Unfortunately, I don't think personal accident insurance would work for me, because I drive both scooter and car.

[al007]

1 hour ago, teddog said:

Not really, I know what I'm doing, you do not.   Unconsiousness?   stability obtained govt. hospital, if private they do not get paid,   nurse from my fav hospital India arrives with whatever is needed drugs etc and accompanies me (Indigo)  3 seats booked back to India,  all done and dusted in 2 hours  easy and cheaper than cheap

   that $150 heath insurance plan you have,  does it involve medivac?     Obv I do not have one but personally , would be medivacced back to UK for free (if wanted)

Look Teddogs system works for him, we can all learn from some of it, did not say all of it

 

I am 72 plus, a couple of cancers hopefully in remission, I am uninsurable at any sensible cost

 

My loving wife is under strict instructions to sign NOTHING  WHATSOEVER if I am admitted to hospital unconscious, if I die I die,  and I am very serious;  I do not want a hospital taking money from my wife botching up trying to save me

 

Any assets I have are now held by my wife not me, just as a bit of free insurance, and many will not understand this comment

 

If it were a stroke and I recover a bit maybe back to uk, many scenarios follow the Teddog route, worst case scenario is you are dead, it is going to happen eventually regardless of even unlimited medical cover

 

If we all followed the consensus opinion that insurance is best which it maybe, many many would be returning to their home countries

 

Then living their dying days in the cold with the NHS, no smiling faces, meals on wheels, no one to hug at nights

 

I very consciously take my chances, I retired 25 yrs ago without what some say was not enough money but have travelled the world, ten yrs in my 65ft yacht, and I am still here, and also done a couple of very expensive divorces and had no insurance there

 

My advice comes with a health warning, it is not for the weak of heart

 

There is no doubt about it some people just are not worldly enough to live here , even Bazza73 bless him if he has to be asking the questions he is; is not comfortable, and that is not good, and maybe should NOT be here

 

The bible says three score years and ten, well I am ahead of that

Edited June 7, 2017 by al007

[music065]

Interestingly, medical costs seem to be the one wild card that can turn this place from low cost of living to expensive in the blink of an eye. 

 

What do most expats here that are 75+ generally do when they no longer can get insurance or the premiums just become astronomical?  Try to handle medical costs with their own funds? Return to their home country? Or...? Perhaps the answer is different for everyone. I'd be interested to know people's plans, I'm trying to figure out the best plan and it's challenging. 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by music065

[NancyL]

14 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Hi Nancy,

                     A couple of questions on this:

 

1/ Should I be carrying some kind of card that directs any ambulance to Suandoc Hospital in the event of an accident?

 

2/ I have 500,000 baht in an account with an ATM card specifically for medical emergencies. The retirement account with Bangkok Bank is 800,000. Another passbook account with Bangkok Bank fluctuates between 250,000 minimum balance and 1 million baht, used for living expenses. Is this enough?

 

3/ My son in Australia has Power of Attorney in the event of an accident. How long does it take for the overseas bank, in your experience, to release those funds?

 

Unfortunately, I don't think personal accident insurance would work for me, because I drive both scooter and car.

1.  Yes, you definitely should carry a card that directs an ambulance crew to take you to Maharaj Nakorn Chiang Mai Hospital, in both Thai and English and also use the common name "Suan Dok Hospital" and "CMU University Hospital".  It's known by several names.  My husband found a friend incapacitated on the floor of her condo due to a stroke and nearly directed the building staff call an ambulance for the wrong hospital because he didn't understand the multitude of names for this hospital.  That's why the card should be both in English and Thai and with all the many names for this hospital because you never know who will be making the decision about where you will be sent.

 

2.  The funds you have are enough for a hospital to begin treatment for one medical emergency.  I've seen medical situations where the total bill is 3 - 4 million baht, in Suan Dok hospital.  Most bills there are 200,000 - 300,000 baht for cardiac events and a little less for orthopedic events, but they can get much higher.  Remember, you will probably have more than one medical event in your life, so you should be prepared to replenish your funds in Thailand several times during the course of your life.  The amount of money you have could quickly disappear at someplace like Bangkok Hospital or CM Ram, where ICU charges can be as high as 100,000 baht/day for a complex case.

 

3.  You son should contact the bank in Australia, show them the POA and ask if it is sufficient for him to be able to withdraw from your account.  The bank may have additional requirements.

 

4.  You should talk with your insurance agent to be sure your medical expenses are covered if you have an accident in your car or motorcycle.  Not just liability for someone else's medical expenses or repair of vehicles, but your own medical expenses.  They can obtain such a policy.

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

18 hours ago, teddog said:

Not really, I know what I'm doing, you do not.   Unconsiousness?   stability obtained govt. hospital, if private they do not get paid,   nurse from my fav hospital India arrives with whatever is needed drugs etc and accompanies me (Indigo)  3 seats booked back to India,  all done and dusted in 2 hours  easy and cheaper than cheap

   that $150 heath insurance plan you have,  does it involve medivac?     Obv I do not have one but personally , would be medivacced back to UK for free (if wanted)

 

In the scenario you describe, what you overlook is:

 

1 - the hospitals will not discharge you/allow the transfer iof the bill is unpaid

 

2- even after stabilization you may be in such condition as to require much more than a nurse in accompaniment to safely fly.  You may be on a ventilator, or in traction, for example - major medical equipment, removal of a whole row of deats in the aircraft, all in all not going to cost less than $40,000

 

3 - you may not  be conscious and able to make any of these arrangements

[teddog]

 The 'plane might blow up, the earth might fall in,all the 'mights,it will never happen, and if it does   I am not taking out health insurance at the rate it will cost,  the option to get kidnapped from hospital if it gets traumatic sounds ok at the end of the day I have backup,medivac         Regular testing (in India) heart, lungs, cancer scans, up the ass etc. if anything amiss is spotted  then options are available

[al007]

7 minutes ago, teddog said:

 The 'plane might blow up, the earth might fall in,all the 'mights,it will never happen, and if it does   I am not taking out health insurance at the rate it will cost,  the option to get kidnapped from hospital if it gets traumatic sounds ok at the end of the day I have backup,medivac         Regular testing (in India) heart, lungs, cancer scans, up the ass etc. if anything amiss is spotted  then options are available

 

Obviously some strong views, at the various levels

 

Sheryl and Nancy have very sound views and opinions, in the ideal world (which unfortunately does not exist) Follow their advice and you are unlikely to wind up in trouble, only catch is maybe you do not have enough money to go this route

 

Then at say 77 yrs insurance company changes the rules, you have given them all your money over the years, and they dump you

 

My self and Teddog are at the other extreme, but both of us talk from our own experiences, and have faced medical problems

 

I would guess some 60% of expats here in retirement, in reality and in an emergency should not be here and cannot buy their way out

 

Medical cover to have or not have is only part of the costs of living here

 

Personally I need around 120,000 per month to live here, and still can not afford medical cover

 

More important am I going to run out of money in retirement, I do not know, I self manage my own pension fund, and have averaged over 22% PA return for the last ten years, and stay fully invested, with little in cash, another dangerous strategy for some people, and to do this I have to take risks

 

There are many many expats living here on less than than 30,000, PCM and of course they should not in reality be here, they have no reserves, BUT they are happier here than at home in the UK

 

If they are breaking no laws let them stay, or is it going to be suggested everyone is regulated even in their retirement

 

We need to remember living is terminal

 

I personally believe that euthanasia should be legal

 

I love our dogs but if they get too ill they will be put down in a humane manner

 

Live and Let Live and most important Keep Smiling and taking your vitamin pills

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

In the scenario you describe, what you overlook is:

 

1 - the hospitals will not discharge you/allow the transfer iof the bill is unpaid

 

2- even after stabilization you may be in such condition as to require much more than a nurse in accompaniment to safely fly.  You may be on a ventilator, or in traction, for example - major medical equipment, removal of a whole row of deats in the aircraft, all in all not going to cost less than $40,000

 

3 - you may not  be conscious and able to make any of these arrangements

 

I've seen all this and more several times a year just in little ole Chiang Mai. 

 

I've got to say, the clients who are some of the worst, are some of the ones who thing they've "got it all figured out".  That somehow they're going to beat the system, perhaps by going to India or back to OZ if they get sick, or maybe stringing together back-to-back travel insurance policies, or thinking they're covered under the Thai gov't 30 baht health insurance simply because they're married to a Thai lady.  And of course, there are the guys who really do have some money, but have kept such tight control of it, that no one knows how to access it to pay for their care when they become incapable of using their computer.

 

 

[teddog]

Just now, NancyL said:

 

I've seen all this and more several times a year just in little ole Chiang Mai. 

 

I've got to say, the clients who are some of the worst, are some of the ones who thing they've "got it all figured out".  That somehow they're going to beat the system, perhaps by going to India or back to OZ if they get sick, or maybe stringing together back-to-back travel insurance policies, or thinking they're covered under the Thai gov't 30 baht health insurance simply because they're married to a Thai lady.  

 

 

 

Me? I'm not bothered not of an age to bother, unconscious they want to keep me in a hospital until bill paid,  they will get sick of me before I get sick of them unconscious ?you (or me) knows nothing about anything..on ventilator/traction..so what  times nearly up, bloody insurance, it's just a racket anyway, can pull the rug up at any time  and they do