Democrats oppose proposal for united front against ‘Thaksin regime’

[snoop1130]

Democrats oppose proposal for united front against ‘Thaksin regime’

By The Nation

 

 

While there is a necessity to fight against the so-called Thaksin regime, it is not necessary for the Democrat Party, the People’s Democratic Reform Foundation (PDRF) and the junta to join hands in tackling the issue, the Democrats said on Monday.

 

The Democrats were responding to comments made by National Reform Steering Assembly member Wanchai Sornsiri. On Saturday he proposed that the three blocs should join forces to oppose what he called Phue Thai’s politically monopolistic regime.

 

“The Democrats could take care of the Parliament, the PDRF could oversee people-level politics and the National Council for Peace and Order could take guard on national security,” Wanchai said. “If they don’t cooperate with each other in this transition period, they will likely fail.”

 

However, Democrat deputy leader Ongart Klampaiboon said on Monday that each bloc, while sharing some mutual stances, is independent. They may join hands on “some occasions” but should hold firm on their own points of view, he said.

 

 Ongart was referring to last week’s meeting between the Democrats and the PDRF. The latter’s key figures have been Democrat MPs but have distanced themselves from the party since the PDRF-led uprising during 2013 to 2014, which consequently led to the coup.

 

While the meeting was speculated to signal a move to settle some disagreements between the two blocs, Ongart insisted that they remained united because the PDRF’s key figures have belonged to the Democrats from the start.

 

Former Democrat MP Attawit Suwanpakdee added that while he agreed with the idea on joined forces against the Thaksin regime, how the next government would be shaped is another story.

 

 “I would support Democrat leader [Abhisit Vejjajiva] as next prime minister,” Attawit said “But as the [junta-appointed] senate would also be empowered to select a PM, we have to see the political atmosphere by then.”

 

Full Story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30317267

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-6-5

[Reigntax]

Well there you have it. The "democrats", sutheps mob and the junta all in bed to avoid the peoples decision.

 

And they will still lose at the ballot box!

[robblok]

On 6/5/2017 at 6:02 PM, Reigntax said:

Well there you have it. The "democrats", sutheps mob and the junta all in bed to avoid the peoples decision.

 

And they will still lose at the ballot box!

 

Then they fail. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[Raymonddiaz]

9 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

Well there you have it. The "democrats", sutheps mob and the junta all in bed to avoid the peoples decision.

 

And they will still lose at the ballot box!

yes if it is real election. Not a fake democracy with the military controlling everything.

[Reigntax]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Then they fail. 

 

Everything they touch is a failure but all 3 groups are too delusional to realise it. The only necessity of this group of 3 is triage.

[Chris Lawrence]

No one wants to tackle the elephant in the room.

 

So what is the protocol for one of the Thaksin children entering politics or a relative?

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, snoop1130 said:

The Democrats were responding to comments made by National Reform Steering Assembly member Wanchai Sornsiri. On Saturday he proposed that the three blocs should join forces to oppose what he called Phue Thai’s politically monopolistic regime.

Of course if the unholy trinity failed, there will always be a coup as the standby plan. 

[smutcakes]

Should people on the NRSA at least put up a pretense of neautrality?

[Get Real]

Right now I am all for that. Just that I wanna go a little bit further with this. Maybe ban all the citizens from political positions, due to that nobody really can handle a work including being in a power position without taking unlawful advantage of it.

[ddavidovsky]

There will be no democracy in Thailand until such time as the general population becomes politically sophisticated enough to demand it and socially organised enough to maintain it. I estimate another 25-30 years of gradual social evolution.

Of course, a new, highly competent and charismatic leader could appear at any time and speed that up.

[Smarter Than You]

I take it by "Thaksin regime" they mean democratically elected government.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Reigntax said:

Well there you have it. The "democrats", sutheps mob and the junta all in bed to avoid the peoples decision.

 

And they will still lose at the ballot box!

Unfortunately losing it at the ballot box wont make any difference..

 

Abhisit will be installed anyway.

 

It won't end well...

[waitforusalso]

The shameless Mark to accept another armchair ride to the PMs chair. & this time the people won't even be allowed to protest against it. Disgusting!

[wakeupplease]

The Magpie and Mr T working together, I would feel sorry for Mr T in that situation.

[yellowboat]

People keep saying the average Thai is not smart enough to elect the right candidate.  Look what they have to work with;  the bungling army and hi so's that call themselves democrats, but seem to benefit from deposing elected governments.  What choices does the average Thai have other than a Shinawarta ? 

[williamgeorgeallen]

this is like a comic show. we have thaksin/reds/majority, the yellows/democrats?/minority and the army. lots of talk about democracy and elections but really just a bunch of coups, mostly backed by the democrats who are of course not democratic at all. system just goes in cycles except this time the army is holding on to power for a longer time and trying to continue to hold power behind the scenes. add a lot of populist policies into the mix and we have quite a show.

[mike324]

3rd graders talking about politics! lol

[Stargeezr]

The Thaksin regime was elected with a lot of money going into a lot of pockets. Everyone knows

that. If anyone of the family gets into the next government, then we will know that more pockets

have been filled again. It does not matter how Thaksin got elected, as it was not a clean election.

  Too bad his supporters do not seem to remember the past with accuracy.

[Denim]

Hard to unite what has already been united since the days of the PAD.

 

What they need to do is ensure that if the election ever comes there is only one choice for party on the ballot paper. The democrats. That is the only way they can win.

[Eric Loh]

Hard for the military, Dem, Suthep and their elites and royalist allies and supported by the wealthy conglomerates and technocrats to relinquish the spoils and power that they stole by keeping democratically elected governments out. They have all the resources and finances to pay of the voters rather than using the messy coup. After all some here still say that most voters are stupid, uneducated and will take cash for votes. 

[YetAnother]

15 hours ago, Get Real said:

due to that nobody really can handle a work including being in a power position without taking unlawful advantage of it

and it seems that is their real goal; never a thought about duty, greater good; it is ALL about abuse,nepotism,cronyism.laying the groundwork for future favors...

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Should people on the NRSA at least put up a pretense of neautrality?

 

That would be a bit like Pheu Thai pretending to be a real political party rather than an wholly owned and paid for Thaksin club.

 

Neither has any interest in real reform or the good of the people. Simply one against the other out for their own interests.

[Smarter Than You]

14 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

There will be no democracy in Thailand until such time as the general population becomes politically sophisticated enough to demand it and socially organised enough to maintain it. I estimate another 25-30 years of gradual social evolution.

Of course, a new, highly competent and charismatic leader could appear at any time and speed that up.

Change, when it comes, will be blindingly quick.

This is the true tragedy of what the elites are putting the country through now.

Instead of an orderly transition into a free, open and democratic society, change will be sudden and violent.

 

The pent up rage of the millions that are being forced to live in fear and poverty will bring about change - no charismatic leader required.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Smarter Than You said:

Change, when it comes, will be blindingly quick.

This is the true tragedy of what the elites are putting the country through now.

Instead of an orderly transition into a free, open and democratic society, change will be sudden and violent.

 

The pent up rage of the millions that are being forced to live in fear and poverty will bring about change - no charismatic leader required.

 

There are no political parties that really represent the people. Just self interested regionally patronages based on old influential family hierarchies.

 

There isn't a robust fair equal to all justice system and no effective checks and balances with real teeth and impartiality.

 

Not one single government, elected or otherwise has shown any real interest in changing that.

 

There is no real deep desire to change. Until that in itself changes, nothing else will.

 

All this talk about some sort of revolution is nonsense. Simply won't happen

[Smarter Than You]

1 hour ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

The Thaksin regime was elected with a lot of money going into a lot of pockets. Everyone knows

that. If anyone of the family gets into the next government, then we will know that more pockets

have been filled again. It does not matter how Thaksin got elected, as it was not a clean election.

  Too bad his supporters do not seem to remember the past with accuracy.

The Thaksin governments were elected with the votes of millions of Thais.

Money has not had an influence on the outcome of Thai elections, countless studies have shown this to be fact, everyone knows that (though some continue to peddle lies to serve their own bigotry and prejudices)

 

When an elected government again takes control of Thailand,  be it Shinawatra led or not, one thing is sure - they will be under more scrutiny and be more closely watched by elite appointed bureaucrats than any government in the history of Thailand - it's a certainty that corruption will be at an all time low.

(BTW -do you suppose baht or two has ended up in a khaki pocket or two during the purchasing of the submarines?)

 

Does it matter how the Junta were elected?

There was no election.

Surely no election is worse than an imperfect election?

 

Too bad Junta supporters can not see the reality of today!

[Baerboxer]

23 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Hard for the military, Dem, Suthep and their elites and royalist allies and supported by the wealthy conglomerates and technocrats to relinquish the spoils and power that they stole by keeping democratically elected governments out. They have all the resources and finances to pay of the voters rather than using the messy coup. After all some here still say that most voters are stupid, uneducated and will take cash for votes. 

 

I don't think people here are stupid, not in the least. Education is not the same as intelligence. Many people here have or had limited opportunity to education through no fault of their own; and have not in the past had such easy access to so much information. 

I do think, and have seen, that there is significant peer pressure, including reward and punishment, to encourage people to vote as instructed. The social peer pressure is a powerful element of life, as as hierarchical power structures, in rural areas where you closely interact and rely on your neighbors and also often respect a patronage system. It's much deeper than just handing over some cash, although the "expenses" reimbursement or "thank you tip" is appreciated.

 

The trouble is Eric, as you know, that democratically elected governments also stole large sums of money. Indeed the last one had public plans to raise the bar on that. 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

The Thaksin governments were elected with the votes of millions of Thais.

Money has not had an influence on the outcome of Thai elections, countless studies have shown this to be fact, everyone knows that (though some continue to peddle lies to serve their own bigotry and prejudices)

 

When an elected government again takes control of Thailand,  be it Shinawatra led or not, one thing is sure - they will be under more scrutiny and be more closely watched by elite appointed bureaucrats than any government in the history of Thailand - it's a certainty that corruption will be at an all time low.

(BTW -do you suppose baht or two has ended up in a khaki pocket or two during the purchasing of the submarines?)

 

Does it matter how the Junta were elected?

There was no election.

Surely no election is worse than an imperfect election?

 

Too bad Junta supporters can not see the reality of today!

 

You clearly don't know what goes on in an election. Possible you haven't been here long enough. The votes of rural Thais are orchestrated by the village heads, district heads etc. People are under pressure as the whole village wants to be seen to vote a certain way. People are give cash, are herded to vote, and then expect that when/if that party gets into power their village/area will receive some benefits. One PTP legend even told Phuket that's why they didn't get a promised new convention center - you voted for the wrong side!

Add to that the old power structures, based on feudal patronage hierarchies and social divides and you have the means to coerce and control.

 

All, note All, parties here, have their areas that support them like this. 

 

The "mold" is being broken by an increasingly disenchanted middle class and more worldly young people, both of which have much more access to information now.

 

But out in the boonies, it's same, same.

[Smarter Than You]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I don't think people here are stupid, not in the least. Education is not the same as intelligence. Many people here have or had limited opportunity to education through no fault of their own; and have not in the past had such easy access to so much information. 

I do think, and have seen, that there is significant peer pressure, including reward and punishment, to encourage people to vote as instructed. The social peer pressure is a powerful element of life, as as hierarchical power structures, in rural areas where you closely interact and rely on your neighbors and also often respect a patronage system. It's much deeper than just handing over some cash, although the "expenses" reimbursement or "thank you tip" is appreciated.

 

The trouble is Eric, as you know, that democratically elected governments also stole large sums of money. Indeed the last one had public plans to raise the bar on that. 

 

 

Would the lack of access to education have anything to do with the long history of Thai elites ripping off the masses for their own benefit through unelected governments that disproportionately lavish government expenditures on the upper classes of Bangkok?

 

You say "democratically elected governments stole large sums of money".

There is a lot less truth in this statement than you imagine there to be - Junta propaganda is rarely based on fact.

 

That aside, military governments are more corrupt than civilian ones.

There are zero checks and balances on the Junta.

Is money being stolen as we speak?

Of course.

How much?

Who knows - there are no checks and balances on the Junta.

 

You think elections are bad because of peer pressure.

What are your views on no elections?

Are they better or worse than imperfect elections?

 

You think democratic governments steal money.

Do unchecked, unelected Juntas steal money?

If they do, is that good or bad?

If they do, how to stop it?

 

 

 

 

[Smarter Than You]

23 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You clearly don't know what goes on in an election. Possible you haven't been here long enough. The votes of rural Thais are orchestrated by the village heads, district heads etc. People are under pressure as the whole village wants to be seen to vote a certain way. People are give cash, are herded to vote, and then expect that when/if that party gets into power their village/area will receive some benefits. One PTP legend even told Phuket that's why they didn't get a promised new convention center - you voted for the wrong side!

Add to that the old power structures, based on feudal patronage hierarchies and social divides and you have the means to coerce and control.

 

All, note All, parties here, have their areas that support them like this. 

 

The "mold" is being broken by an increasingly disenchanted middle class and more worldly young people, both of which have much more access to information now.

 

But out in the boonies, it's same, same.

How long  is long enough?

11 years do the trick for you?

 

Out in the "boonies" the people are buffalo, in Bangkok the people are sophisticated?

Nice.

 

People can vote for whomever they want for whatever reason they want - that is democracy.

Whichever party gets the most seats in the lower house forms government - that is democracy.

 

Tell me this, PTP have been muzzled for 3 years.

The entire apparatus of government has been actively and openly doing all they can do damage the PTP brand for three years - unchallenged.

The judicial system has been hauling Reds through the courts and convicting them at the same rate it has been acquiting and absolving Yellows of any wrongdoing

A new rigged constitution has been thrust upon the nation through a rigged referendum, a constitution that's sole aim is to keep PTP out of power

Yet, PTP are still expected to win at least 220 of the 500 lower house seats in the next election.

PTP stand a good chance of getting to 251 seats on their own, which renders the 250 fully appointed military Senators null and void when it comes to selecting the PM.

Why is that?

 

Have you ever considered taking a minute to look at the other side?

Do PTP win election after election through bribery and coercion or do they win election after election because the alternatives are so, so bad?

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Smarter Than You
.

[Baerboxer]

19 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Would the lack of access to education have anything to do with the long history of Thai elites ripping off the masses for their own benefit through unelected governments that disproportionately lavish government expenditures on the upper classes of Bangkok?

 

You say "democratically elected governments stole large sums of money".

There is a lot less truth in this statement than you imagine there to be - Junta propaganda is rarely based on fact.

 

That aside, military governments are more corrupt than civilian ones.

There are zero checks and balances on the Junta.

Is money being stolen as we speak?

Of course.

How much?

Who knows - there are no checks and balances on the Junta.

 

You think elections are bad because of peer pressure.

What are your views on no elections?

Are they better or worse than imperfect elections?

 

You think democratic governments steal money.

Do unchecked, unelected Juntas steal money?

If they do, is that good or bad?

If they do, how to stop it?

 

 

 

 

 

The lack of education has to do with successive government, including the Shin owned ones who were in power for most of this century, doing bugger all to rely reform education. Instead they simply allowed the corrupt system based on money changing hands to flourish. They also rotated ministers so often to give turns at the trough rather than actually doing anything. So please, let's not pretend the elected governments, especially Shin owned, are as honest as the day is long. 

 

If you stop your lobbying for the Shins, and read my posts then you'll see I say all governments, elected or otherwise. But let's not pretend any government this century has behaved any differently.