Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes, the choice of Socialists everywhere.

I am a socialist. I also like eccentrics.

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm for Boris.

Was it not he and the other blithering idiot Grove who headed Vote Leave??? that got the UK into this mess...

 

Also did he not also say we can stay in the Single Market???

Quote

Boris Johnson: UK will 'still have access to single market’ despite Brexit

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-eu-referendum-single-market-brexit-a7104846.html

[binjalin]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You apparently have not understood anything I wrote.

 

all the health professionals I know have to have one both on the medical side and on the management side

Don't know m/any ward nurses then?

 

BTW, despite having to have a degree in management, many ward managers I had were incompetent at best and useless at worst. Like we used to say, nurses that can't nurse become managers.

 

Have a nice day .

 

Silly post I was a senior NHS manager most of my career and ALL nurse managers had a nursing degree with the highest having a management degree as well. Get that CHIP off your shoulder.

[brewsterbudgen]

What's next...
 
Even I Teresa manages a deal with the UDP, her position is untenable, it is clear that many Tory MP's do not agree with her and what is worse she will not listen to them.
 
This parliament is short lived, it will not survive many months so many Tory MP's are wondering how the hell they will get re-elected on thing for sure is May's stance on a hard brexit will not help them.
 
This is likely to lead to her being given an Ultimatum "jump before you are pushed", and we will see the Tories looking for a new leader within days.
 
And an election before the end of the year.
 
 
 

And most likely a Labour majority government.

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly my point. You are at the least implying that parents that didn't go to uni are uneducated and incapable of bringing up educated children.

You seem to assume that I don't know any uni educated people to be able to make an informed opinion.

 

For a look at uni educated people, just go to U Tube to see how uni students behave badly.

Some that are interviewed on Spring Break don't even know who the vice president is.

We are going to get the cane for being off topic

 

I meant nothing derogatory; it was merely an observation that when at least one parent is a graduate, any offspring tend to follow. It's good!

 

Are you American? You use the term Spring break. The US system is a little different. It used to be hugely different

 

So many Uniphobes are such killjoys! I don't resent youth having fun!!!

Edited June 11, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, binjalin said:

People who don't have a decent degree always denigrate those who worked hard and have one. You cannot get anywhere in the health care sector, forces or police etc. unless you have a degree which shows commitment and focus.

 

Inside the NHS in UK those who wish to undertake study are usually encouraged to do so and all the health professionals I know have to have one both on the medical side and on the management side (I took my higher degree in the NHS). 

 

The Thai government are right, for once, to insist on a degree as it does many things beside show focus it encourages students to study and do the same. It's not about the subject always it's about the time and understanding of research methodologies etc.

And, crucially, the interaction with other bright people on a broad range of subjects!

[AlexRich]

29 minutes ago, Basil B said:

What's next...

 

Even I Teresa manages a deal with the UDP, her position is untenable, it is clear that many Tory MP's do not agree with her and what is worse she will not listen to them.

 

This parliament is short lived, it will not survive many months so many Tory MP's are wondering how the hell they will get re-elected on thing for sure is May's stance on a hard brexit will not help them.

 

This is likely to lead to her being given an Ultimatum "jump before you are pushed", and we will see the Tories looking for a new leader within days.

 

And an election before the end of the year.

 

 

 

I'm not so sure that the Tories will be rushing to replace May, the risk of another election is a Corbyn Government ... not what the hard Brexiteers were hoping for. The hard Brexit days are gone, May knows she can no longer set the agenda. What I disliked about May was that she sold her soul to the right wing press to be Prime Minister. They destroyed her competitors in return for a promise of a no compromise hard Brexit. That's now dead. If she wants to survive she has to pursue a Brexit deal that has support of a broad UK population ... and once that is gone she is finished. 

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, I just finished a book last night.

My beef with uni isn't with uni per se- I WANT a dr with a degree. My beef is that jobs that should never have been made a degree required occupation, like nursing, have been made so for all the wrong reasons. That puts it out of contention for people that would have made excellent nurses, but can't afford to take 3 or 4 years off from earning an income.

The media studies thing is because it represents the most pointless degree ever imagined ( along with hip hop etc etc ) and the chance of actually getting a good paying job with it is slight.

Meanwhile, the little princes and princesses don't want to do needed degrees as in science and mathematics, so the future is looking bleak for innovation, in western countries.

I doubt Chinese unis have a shortage of applicants for science and mathematics degrees.

Fair points. Re China, it is the Chinese overseas applicants which can fill up the STEM degree places in the UK unis. A significant number of home students go for the easier path (unlike the overseas students), but all those jobs which used to exist are no longer there for school leavers so they stay on. And wasn't it Thatcher who killed off the apprenticeship system? Plus no social security for the post-16s. The German education system re vocational training was and remains miles ahead (originally designed by Brits after the war). Anyway, if Corbyn did re-introduce free tuition (and in my day it was free tuition and grants) expect to see more soft degrees to cater for the not so smart. I wouldn't get too het up about it. The smart students will work out what to do.

Edited June 11, 2017 by SheungWan

[AlexRich]

26 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Was it not he and the other blithering idiot Grove who headed Vote Leave??? that got the UK into this mess...

 

Also did he not also say we can stay in the Single Market???

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-eu-referendum-single-market-brexit-a7104846.html

Totally agree. Boris makes Donald Trump look like a paragon of integrity. Everywhere that clown goes he leaves behind white elephant projects .... he's a complete mess of a politician.

 

But credit where credit is due ... he can LIE to you in six languages, including Ancient Greek!

[citybiker]

I'm not so sure that the Tories will be rushing to replace May, the risk of another election is a Corbyn Government ... not what the hard Brexiteers were hoping for. The hard Brexit days are gone, May knows she can no longer set the agenda. What I disliked about May was that she sold her soul to the right wing press to be Prime Minister. They destroyed her competitors in return for a promise of a no compromise hard Brexit. That's now dead. If she wants to survive she has to pursue a Brexit deal that has support of a broad UK population ... and once that is gone she is finished. 

May has never mentioned a hard Brexit only her critics and ant-Tory media etc.

I agree the Tories won't be in a hurry to replace May for that very reason, another GE.

With the DUP now in the mix as key players NI is near certain to have a soft border which all parties & the EU wanted so win win.

The rest, we, the electorate will have to wait & see how the negotiations develop, the main thing is Labour aren't able to screw the country up any further with its 20st Century fantasy policies which will burden the U.K. With even more debt.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, citybiker said:

May has never mentioned a hard Brexit only her critics and ant-Tory media etc.

I agree the Tories won't be in a hurry to replace May for that very reason, another GE.

With the DUP now in the mix as key players NI is near certain to have a soft border which all parties & the EU wanted so win win.

The rest, we, the electorate will have to wait & see how the negotiations develop, the main thing is Labour aren't able to screw the country up any further with its 20st Century fantasy policies which will burden the U.K. With even more debt.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't be so worried about sovereign debt. It's not the house keeping.

 

May has committed to getting immigration down even at the expense of the economy. That implies hard Brexit. The Con SS want a crash out. Neither will happen now. Too many people are awake and understanding that the CONs are still the nasty Party!

 

I hope Vince Cable takes over the Lib Dems. He could do a better deal than the DUP in exchange for a sensible Brexit and NOT have the IRA re-arming!!!

 

What was the 20st comment about? Are you trying to guess my weight?

Edited June 11, 2017 by Grouse

[thaibeachlovers]

29 minutes ago, binjalin said:

Silly post I was a senior NHS manager most of my career and ALL nurse managers had a nursing degree with the highest having a management degree as well. Get that CHIP off your shoulder.

Now it's clear where you are coming from . I was an actual worker in the NHS for 10 years.

You are hardly going to agree that a degree is not necessary or that NHS managers are out of touch with the nurses.

I'd love to have a full on debate about managers and the NHS, but this is just going to get deleted, so time to call it a day on this side track.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

And wasn't it Thatcher who killed off the apprenticeship system?

Same in NZ. Probably the single most destructive thing ever done by government.

Now of course the chickens are coming home to roost, as they say.

No wonder that so many dislike politicians and politics.

 

IMO it's what happens when too many politicians are lawyers. No idea of the real world.

Edited June 11, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[Basil B]

18 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Totally agree. Boris makes Donald Trump look like a paragon of integrity. Everywhere that clown goes he leaves behind white elephant projects .... he's a complete mess of a politician.

 

But credit where credit is due ... he can LIE to you in six languages, including Ancient Greek!

Can't even use a zipline without making a pigs ear of it...

[SheungWan]

Sometimes the electorate wants contradictory things and Brexit is no different. It may be the case that the electorate now wants a soft Brexit, but is a soft Brexit possible without free movement of labour within the EU and the UK? It is this which Theresa May recognised and squaring the circle may not be on. So...look for an agreement which allows for a reasonably long transitional period keeping free movement and the option for a future UK government to keep that switch open. That's my 2 cents worth.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Can't even use a zipline without making a pigs ear of it...

Ah, but he's fun.

I hate that everyone takes b***** politics so seriously. Pack of humourless boobs stuffing up my life. Bah humbug.

Life is too short etc.

Go Boris go.

Edited June 11, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[AlexRich]

16 minutes ago, citybiker said:

May has never mentioned a hard Brexit only her critics and ant-Tory media etc.

I agree the Tories won't be in a hurry to replace May for that very reason, another GE.

With the DUP now in the mix as key players NI is near certain to have a soft border which all parties & the EU wanted so win win.

The rest, we, the electorate will have to wait & see how the negotiations develop, the main thing is Labour aren't able to screw the country up any further with its 20st Century fantasy policies which will burden the U.K. With even more debt.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's simply not true. May has explicitly stated that the UK would leave the customs union and the single market, she has also insisted in including foreign students in the immigrant numbers and committed to a number in the tens of thousands. I suspect that is what she agreed with the Daily Mail when they supported her for the leadership and trashed her opponents. What I have just described is the hardest of hard brexits ... not what business wants, not what many Tory MPs want, and by the look of things not what the electorate wants. 

 

Farage made a commnent about May not being a leaver. I don't believe that she was ever for remain as she never appeared to campaign for it. She stayed loyal to Cameron because she thought Leave would lose, she knew he would be resigning before the next election and that it is better to be in the Cabinet when you go for the leadership election. 

 

If May attempts to pursue a hard Brexit she will be gone in weeks. It's all over for that strategy. All political careers end in failure ... as she is now painfully aware.

[Basil B]

36 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I'm not so sure that the Tories will be rushing to replace May, the risk of another election is a Corbyn Government ... not what the hard Brexiteers were hoping for. The hard Brexit days are gone, May knows she can no longer set the agenda. What I disliked about May was that she sold her soul to the right wing press to be Prime Minister. They destroyed her competitors in return for a promise of a no compromise hard Brexit. That's now dead. If she wants to survive she has to pursue a Brexit deal that has support of a broad UK population ... and once that is gone she is finished. 

They have will have no option, the majority is so slim with the DUP it is hardly likely the will win any divisions other than a vote of confidence... and it would be so marginal they will be bringing MP's in ambulances from hospital beds to vote, even death beds if need be.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Basil B

[Basil B]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

That's simply not true. May has explicitly stated that the UK would leave the customs union and the single market

And if The Tories changed their stance on this with a "we would prefer to stay with the customs union and the single market, but this will depend on tough negotiations" I am sure that what the EU wants also.

 

So if May was replaced with a want to stay in the single market leader they could possibly get a slim majority at the next election, but please, please, please not Boris.

[AlexRich]

38 minutes ago, Basil B said:

And if The Tories changed their stance on this with a "we would prefer to stay with the customs union and the single market, but this will depend on tough negotiations" I am sure that what the EU wants also.

 

So if May was replaced with a want to stay in the single market leader they could possibly get a slim majority at the next election, but please, please, please not Boris.

So it looks like we'll be sending the Conservative and Unionists Negotiating Team. 

 

Let's hope the EU can come up with a handy acronym to describe them?

 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly my point. You are at the least implying that parents that didn't go to uni are uneducated and incapable of bringing up educated children.

You seem to assume that I don't know any uni educated people to be able to make an informed opinion.

 

For a look at uni educated people, just go to U Tube to see how uni students behave badly.

Some that are interviewed on Spring Break don't even know who the vice president is.

We have two arrogant people on these threads, one  think because a person does not have a university education, they should not be given the vote. The other implies that older people, also should not be allowed to vote. What next, take the vote away from those with blue eyes or black skin,where does it end.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 6/10/2017 at 3:10 AM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Yes, and  Labour manifesto was a giveaway vote buyer they knew would bankrupt the UK if (knowing they wouldn't) they got in..

Have a look at the EU reaction. They are more worried than before.

(see above 440)

You are right there. If he had believed he would get in the Labout manifesto would not even have resembled the give away it was. Nothing more than vote buying.

(I would have clicked the like button but it wasn't there?)

Edited June 11, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

So it looks like we'll be sending the Conservative and Unionists Negotiating Team. 

 

Let's hope the EU can come up with a handy acronym to describe them?

 

The Conservative and Unionists Negotiating Team.

Probably something akin to Captain Mainwaring, Sargent Wilson,  Corporal Jones and Privates Jones & Pike... 

 

As for an acronym  ...probably something made up from a string of expletives. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Basil B

[citybiker]

That's simply not true. May has explicitly stated that the UK would leave the customs union and the single market, she has also insisted in including foreign students in the immigrant numbers and committed to a number in the tens of thousands. I suspect that is what she agreed with the Daily Mail when they supported her for the leadership and trashed her opponents. What I have just described is the hardest of hard brexits ... not what business wants, not what many Tory MPs want, and by the look of things not what the electorate wants. 
 
Farage made a commnent about May not being a leaver. I don't believe that she was ever for remain as she never appeared to campaign for it. She stayed loyal to Cameron because she thought Leave would lose, she knew he would be resigning before the next election and that it is better to be in the Cabinet when you go for the leadership election. 
 
If May attempts to pursue a hard Brexit she will be gone in weeks. It's all over for that strategy. All political careers end in failure ... as she is now painfully aware.

Mentioning the Daily Mail alone weakens the support of your post, as lefty snowflakes use the right wing press consistently to ridicule anything towards the Tories. (No accusations, simply pov).

Including all figures within the immigration is being transparent with the electorate despite her Tory colleagues requesting her to separate the data, also there's is no credible evidence of 'any' Government likely to reduce immigration, I couldn't give a fig about May being a remainer as she's now been put in a leaver's position (irrespective what Farage says).

From a personal perspective, Brexit is far bigger strategically than 'any' of the scrotes within HoP, and it's about <deleted> time the political establishment refrain its usual in house point scoring and deal with it for everyone, not just the young......all.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

We have two arrogant people on these threads, one  think because a person does not have a university education, they should not be given the vote. The other implies that older people, also should not be allowed to vote. What next, take the vote away from those with blue eyes or black skin,where does it end.

You don't really do humour do you?

[AlexRich]

21 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Mentioning the Daily Mail alone weakens the support of your post, as lefty snowflakes use the right wing press consistently to ridicule anything towards the Tories. (No accusations, simply pov).

Including all figures within the immigration is being transparent with the electorate despite her Tory colleagues requesting her to separate the data, also there's is no credible evidence of 'any' Government likely to reduce immigration, I couldn't give a fig about May being a remainer as she's now been put in a leaver's position (irrespective what Farage says).

From a personal perspective, Brexit is far bigger strategically than 'any' of the scrotes within HoP, and it's about <deleted> time the political establishment refrain its usual in house point scoring and deal with it for everyone, not just the young......all.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

May had a deal with Paul Dacre of the Daily Mail, the right hand man of the owner. Boris gets mugged by Michael Gove (whose wife Sarah Vine is a lead journalist for the Daily Mail) and Leadsom gets slaughtered by the same newspaper. The party faithful would not have given her the vote if these two had remained in contention ... so we get a coronation. And in return the electorate gets a zealot hellbent on the hardest of brexits and to hell with the rest ... the 48%, the youth that didn't vote, business leaders, her own remain supporting MP's.

 

You talk about the House of Parliament working together ... I agree, all the views should have been heard and carefully considered before a brexit strategy was drawn up. That would have been the best way to unite the nation. That did not happen though, did it? You were not calling for that when it looked like May was heading for a landslide ... you couldn't give a fig about what other people wanted then. Now the 'snowflakes' and 'removers' are in the ascendency, and you folk don't like it ... suck it up and respect the "will of the people".

 

 

 

 

[Prbkk]

Creepy George Osborne is telling everyone that she is a " dead woman walking" and barely able to disguise his obvious glee about it. Sure, she miscalculated on some policy issues ( and took some very poor advice) but overall she has done a good job and is entitled to continue on. It would be quite dangerous to change horses now and she has shown she is up to the job.

With a bit of softening over Brexit to come, she can recover from this and be a good and effective PM

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You don't really do humour do you?

The written word!

Sometimes the nuances of the English language can be lost on those not looking for or expecting it.

Sarcasm and irony they tell me Americans don't do.

Cheers.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Prbkk said:

Creepy George Osborne is telling everyone that she is a " dead woman walking" and barely able to disguise his obvious glee about it. Sure, she miscalculated on some policy issues ( and took some very poor advice) but overall she has done a good job and is entitled to continue on. It would be quite dangerous to change horses now and she has shown she is up to the job.

With a bit of softening over Brexit to come, she can recover from this and be a good and effective PM

If May had done as well as you say she would have won by a landslide. What she has shown is that she is not in fact up to the job. All she had to do was present an anodyne non-controversial manifesto, take part in a few TV debates, and let her senior colleagues take part in the campaign. When you have been a control freak all of your political life it is hard to change. Just not good enough ... she'll be gone by the end of the year. We'll either have soft Brexit ... or none at all. If the referendum was today the vote would be to stay in the EU ... we've seen the revenge of the snowflakes and remoaners that May chose to ignore.

[citybiker]

 
May had a deal with Paul Dacre of the Daily Mail, the right hand man of the owner. Boris gets mugged by Michael Gove (whose wife Sarah Vine is a lead journalist for the Daily Mail) and Leadsom gets slaughtered by the same newspaper. The party faithful would not have given her the vote if these two had remained in contention ... so we get a coronation. And in return the electorate gets a zealot hellbent on the hardest of brexits and to hell with the rest ... the 48%, the youth that didn't vote, business leaders, her own remain supporting MP's.
 
You talk about the House of Parliament working together ... I agree, all the views should have been heard and carefully considered before a brexit strategy was drawn up. That would have been the best way to unite the nation. That did not happen though, did it? You were not calling for that when it looked like May was heading for a landslide ... you couldn't give a fig about what other people wanted then. Now the 'snowflakes' and 'removers' are in the ascendency, and you folk don't like it ... suck it up and respect the "will of the people".
 
 
 
 

Unfortunately, probably unintentional however the 2nd part of your post has a flaw to it, there was a debate, airing and exchange in both houses prior to A50 being invoked.

Also in the early days & even now the Brexit strategy 'shouldn't' be publicly shared, in the public domain OR within the HoP. Reason:

Too many Whitehall leaks, EU obtains them from a disgruntled CS or other source and the UK loses momentum & negotiations advantage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk