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State of local business debt


kannot

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Recently local shop keepers, Mom n Pops have been  telling my wife about how  much money they are owed  by their patrons, its quite  staggering, they sell more or less everything, many chemicals to put on the fruit and veg etc bit of food  ciggies etc, the 3  local shops  between them are  owed over 4  million baht with almost NO chance  of getting it back according to them.

Yesterday in the conversation the one owner said hes  just  ripped  up all the chits  owing  him money some 400k, the other shop selling  a lot of chemicals is owed 3  million in unpaid  debts.

The  local building supplies co. is owed 100+k from a  builder we "briefly" used and that was 4  years ago..........still unpaid.

They go round  all the shops using up credit until no more is  given then   just move on to another.

One of the Wifes Brothers does this  all over Thailand  just using up given credit and then running off to another province when no more is  supplied.

Wouldnt mind  betting this is a  nationwide problem in rural areas.

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It is.

 

The local shopkeeper was telling my wife on Friday that I am one of the very few that pay  back credit-which in my case never exceeds 500 baht.

 

Furthermore,she states that many of the villagers owe her over 30,000 baht each.

 

Very tough to do business here and having been burnt once (loan to help with the family restaurant) I will never do it again.

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Good observation. I wonder how debtors manage to eventually buy anything locally after they have run up debt?

 

As for builders merchants, that happens worldwide.

 

It is a good indicator of the local economy. Are people starting to follow western trends by getting into consumerist debt? Got a nice big telly, new pickup, scooter, etc and can't afford to put food on the table?

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2 hours ago, grollies said:

Good observation. I wonder how debtors manage to eventually buy anything locally after they have run up debt?

 

As for builders merchants, that happens worldwide.

 

It is a good indicator of the local economy. Are people starting to follow western trends by getting into consumerist debt? Got a nice big telly, new pickup, scooter, etc and can't afford to put food on the table?

they  just  run  away  to  another  province and repeat

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8 hours ago, kannot said:

they  just  run  away  to  another  province and repeat

Curiously enough this subject is most timely.

 

I know an expat whose wife ran one of those small mixed businesses.I heard this afternoon that the wife had raised significant amounts of credit on the shop (without the expats knowledge) and disbursed the funds to the usual crowd of non working family members.

 

They were "crunched" last weekend and have fled to Woop Woop-leaving the expat dazed and bemused.

 

There,but for the grace of god,go I.

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10 hours ago, kannot said:

Yesterday in the conversation the one owner said hes  just  ripped  up all the chits  owing  him money some 400k, the other shop selling  a lot of chemicals is owed 3  million in unpaid  debts.

The  local building supplies co. is owed 100+k from a  builder we "briefly" used and that was 4  years ago..........still unpaid.

 

That may explain why so many prices are so high here: they have a built-in markup to cover bad debt.

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Couple of years ago, a Mom & Pop shop changed hands in my village. New owner had a clear policy: "No credit, but will sell my stuff a few Baht cheaper". 2 months later, he folded up. = Lack of customers!
Cheers.

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A very interesting Economic-Concept. NOBODY pays back any debts.


Person A borrows from person B. Person A does not pay back person B. Person B borrows from a certain person C the same amount, with no intention to pay back person C, and so on and on and on, eternally......


- Actually governments (by issuing government bonds), have been practicing this for decades.
I don't think, that anyone could be found, that actually believes, that govenment debts will ever be paid back.


So, what works for governments, why should the same not work for Thai pesants?
Cheers.

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4 hours ago, swissie said:

A very interesting Economic-Concept. NOBODY pays back any debts.


Person A borrows from person B. Person A does not pay back person B. Person B borrows from a certain person C the same amount, with no intention to pay back person C, and so on and on and on, eternally......


- Actually governments (by issuing government bonds), have been practicing this for decades.
I don't think, that anyone could be found, that actually believes, that govenment debts will ever be paid back.


So, what works for governments, why should the same not work for Thai pesants?
Cheers.

but do  they  pay any  interest?

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Swissie,rather than quote you again-because "kannot" has just done so-what I see is that this is a negative loss where ultimately people are forced to sell land or houses at discount prices whereby the country's wealth ends up being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands,which is certainly happening in Thailand at the moment just as it did in ancient Rome.

 

For such a system to work at all-moneylender-shop owner-defaulting peasants-the economic engine requires lubrication in ever increasing amounts but,alas,there isn't any oil around here and the only profiteers are the moneylenders.This cluster of villages seemed to be thriving when I came here six years ago but they are just wastelands of closed shops and unemployed Isaan Thai at present.

 

Which all contributes to the extreme version of "cargo cultism" that I observe around here.Hordes of people just waiting for something,somehow to drop from the sky.Most Thai here appear to be a bunch of Mr Micawbers but, given their lack of motivation and disdain for education as an engine for change, a pallet of spam and canned pineapple magically descending on them  from above seems most unlikely.

Edited by Odysseus123
clarity.
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Managing debt here is nearly non existent.  Keeping up appearances of success is important to most Thais, same as western world.  I know of families that ave bought new pick up on the never never over 8 years then refinance again at huge interest.  It is like diving into a swimming pool with a couple of concrete blocks around your neck....you can't eat "face ". ?

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And boy what an assh***e you are if you ask for the money back. I (we but financed by me) have debtors of THB 4 mio - American, THB 30k -Thai,  THB 50k -Thai, Thb350k - Thai and THB 1 k -Thai that I know of. 

 

 

Chances of recovery - NIL. 

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5 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

And boy what an assh***e you are if you ask for the money back. I (we but financed by me) have debtors of THB 4 mio - American, THB 30k -Thai,  THB 50k -Thai, Thb350k - Thai and THB 1 k -Thai that I know of. 

 

 

Chances of recovery - NIL. 

Yes  ask for it back = BLACKHEART, him no good etc etc

"we financed by me":cheesy: 

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1 minute ago, The Dark Lord said:

Thanks yr response, takes the edge off it a bit. 

 

;)

Yes-fortunately I am homeward bound where I can rebuild if the big "C"doesn't get me first.

 

I was told that I had the obligatory "black heart" last night but I did point out that I was leaving an entire platoon of healthy NON WORKING Isaan Thai behind to carry on the customary family traditions.I have said goodbye to the notion that any of the loans will ever be repaid.

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Just now, Odysseus123 said:

Yes-fortunately I am homeward bound where I can rebuild if the big "C"doesn't get me first.

 

I was told that I had the obligatory "black heart" last night but I did point out that I was leaving an entire platoon of healthy NON WORKING Isaan Thai behind to carry on the customary family traditions.I have said goodbye to the notion that any of the loans will ever be repaid.

My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has  disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes .

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7 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has  disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes .

Im close to Hua  Hin, Id  say  a  lot of the   villages are as you describe here, the difference  is I have a half  decent Wife who doesnt like this  kind of crap also and has little to do with her own family of  whom 70% are as you describe also Issan), sitting around waiting for the next handout and even when offered work decline.

I  have  next to nothing to do with the  village which Im outside of thankfully by some 4-5oo metres.

This way for me things are ok, it started off all nice and lovely but quickly deteriorated after we found out what they were like, want you to help them but dont want to help you.

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2 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has  disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes .

Yes-it is an astonishing experience and one that I have not been able to totally process as yet but fundamentally I am tired of being treated as an ATM by the family.Strangely enough I still believe that my wife had/has the best of intentions but what can you do when the entire tribe lives only five minutes away and meets for its som tum extravaganza every day.

 

I have noticed a distinct change around here over the past few years (I dare not wonder why) and actually got the 7/11 treatment this morning whereas in the past I often had a bit of a laugh with every body trying Thinglish on me.It was fun then but it isn't now.

 

Best of luck with your move and may you experience many happy days in the future.

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32 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

Thanks yr response, takes the edge off it a bit. 

 

;)

You're in good company. I too loaned 150k to SIL but am getting it back on the drip after insisting the wife request repayments resume as initially agreed.

 

Got the feeling I was expected to let it slide.

 

I foolishly 'lent' stepson 1mB to set up a business. Somewhat of a mistake.

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23 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has  disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes .

Do like me and kannot and keep family at least 150 km away. I'm on Chonburi/Chachengsao border. 6km from nearest village. Nice community, some good friends. Off to one of their funerals now :sad:

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21 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Curiously enough this subject is most timely.

 

I know an expat whose wife ran one of those small mixed businesses.I heard this afternoon that the wife had raised significant amounts of credit on the shop (without the expats knowledge) and disbursed the funds to the usual crowd of non working family members.

 

They were "crunched" last weekend and have fled to Woop Woop-leaving the expat dazed and bemused.

 

There,but for the grace of god,go I.

Nothing to do with this thread its about locals running up debt.

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We have a rock solid no credit policy in our shop. Took about a month to get it through to friends and family that no credit meant just that. We were with sister in law and her wife  just about to open a hardware side to our buisness. Steel /cement/ sand/aggregate ect ect. Nothing too big. We sat and talked to both of them. The bottom line was they felt uncomfortable not giving credit to there friends so the partnership was ended. We opened on time and have a sound cash only buisness model.  We now employ two Thai labourers to deliver the goods. (The sister and her wife lol)

Bottom line is stick to the no credit policy in the end it works incidentally three other ma and pa shops in village now have the same policy.

Edited by jeab1980
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6 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

And boy what an assh***e you are if you ask for the money back. I (we but financed by me) have debtors of THB 4 mio - American, THB 30k -Thai,  THB 50k -Thai, Thb350k - Thai and THB 1 k -Thai that I know of. 

 

 

Chances of recovery - NIL. 

Never lend money to anyone . Be it farang in your home country or here . My sister in law has done quite well for herself (should be loaded) but the hangeroners have continuously pecked away to borrow money off her without even the slightest hint of paying back ! If Thais really worried about saving face why is it they turn up like it's nothing to every family function even though they owe hundreds of thousands of baht ? Thais will ask for money off anyone we are not the only victims . 

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6 hours ago, grollies said:

You're in good company. I too loaned 150k to SIL but am getting it back on the drip after insisting the wife request repayments resume as initially agreed.

 

Got the feeling I was expected to let it slide.

 

I foolishly 'lent' stepson 1mB to set up a business. Somewhat of a mistake.

Ouch

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