kannot Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Recently local shop keepers, Mom n Pops have been telling my wife about how much money they are owed by their patrons, its quite staggering, they sell more or less everything, many chemicals to put on the fruit and veg etc bit of food ciggies etc, the 3 local shops between them are owed over 4 million baht with almost NO chance of getting it back according to them. Yesterday in the conversation the one owner said hes just ripped up all the chits owing him money some 400k, the other shop selling a lot of chemicals is owed 3 million in unpaid debts. The local building supplies co. is owed 100+k from a builder we "briefly" used and that was 4 years ago..........still unpaid. They go round all the shops using up credit until no more is given then just move on to another. One of the Wifes Brothers does this all over Thailand just using up given credit and then running off to another province when no more is supplied. Wouldnt mind betting this is a nationwide problem in rural areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odysseus123 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 It is. The local shopkeeper was telling my wife on Friday that I am one of the very few that pay back credit-which in my case never exceeds 500 baht. Furthermore,she states that many of the villagers owe her over 30,000 baht each. Very tough to do business here and having been burnt once (loan to help with the family restaurant) I will never do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Good observation. I wonder how debtors manage to eventually buy anything locally after they have run up debt? As for builders merchants, that happens worldwide. It is a good indicator of the local economy. Are people starting to follow western trends by getting into consumerist debt? Got a nice big telly, new pickup, scooter, etc and can't afford to put food on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 2 hours ago, grollies said: Good observation. I wonder how debtors manage to eventually buy anything locally after they have run up debt? As for builders merchants, that happens worldwide. It is a good indicator of the local economy. Are people starting to follow western trends by getting into consumerist debt? Got a nice big telly, new pickup, scooter, etc and can't afford to put food on the table? they just run away to another province and repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odysseus123 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 8 hours ago, kannot said: they just run away to another province and repeat Curiously enough this subject is most timely. I know an expat whose wife ran one of those small mixed businesses.I heard this afternoon that the wife had raised significant amounts of credit on the shop (without the expats knowledge) and disbursed the funds to the usual crowd of non working family members. They were "crunched" last weekend and have fled to Woop Woop-leaving the expat dazed and bemused. There,but for the grace of god,go I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 10 hours ago, kannot said: Yesterday in the conversation the one owner said hes just ripped up all the chits owing him money some 400k, the other shop selling a lot of chemicals is owed 3 million in unpaid debts. The local building supplies co. is owed 100+k from a builder we "briefly" used and that was 4 years ago..........still unpaid. That may explain why so many prices are so high here: they have a built-in markup to cover bad debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissie Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Couple of years ago, a Mom & Pop shop changed hands in my village. New owner had a clear policy: "No credit, but will sell my stuff a few Baht cheaper". 2 months later, he folded up. = Lack of customers! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissie Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 A very interesting Economic-Concept. NOBODY pays back any debts. Person A borrows from person B. Person A does not pay back person B. Person B borrows from a certain person C the same amount, with no intention to pay back person C, and so on and on and on, eternally...... - Actually governments (by issuing government bonds), have been practicing this for decades. I don't think, that anyone could be found, that actually believes, that govenment debts will ever be paid back. So, what works for governments, why should the same not work for Thai pesants? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 4 hours ago, swissie said: A very interesting Economic-Concept. NOBODY pays back any debts. Person A borrows from person B. Person A does not pay back person B. Person B borrows from a certain person C the same amount, with no intention to pay back person C, and so on and on and on, eternally...... - Actually governments (by issuing government bonds), have been practicing this for decades. I don't think, that anyone could be found, that actually believes, that govenment debts will ever be paid back. So, what works for governments, why should the same not work for Thai pesants? Cheers. but do they pay any interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odysseus123 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Swissie,rather than quote you again-because "kannot" has just done so-what I see is that this is a negative loss where ultimately people are forced to sell land or houses at discount prices whereby the country's wealth ends up being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands,which is certainly happening in Thailand at the moment just as it did in ancient Rome. For such a system to work at all-moneylender-shop owner-defaulting peasants-the economic engine requires lubrication in ever increasing amounts but,alas,there isn't any oil around here and the only profiteers are the moneylenders.This cluster of villages seemed to be thriving when I came here six years ago but they are just wastelands of closed shops and unemployed Isaan Thai at present. Which all contributes to the extreme version of "cargo cultism" that I observe around here.Hordes of people just waiting for something,somehow to drop from the sky.Most Thai here appear to be a bunch of Mr Micawbers but, given their lack of motivation and disdain for education as an engine for change, a pallet of spam and canned pineapple magically descending on them from above seems most unlikely. Edited June 11, 2017 by Odysseus123 clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwct Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Don't be fooled by can you make a loan to>>>>>>>>! It really means can you give my cousin 20,000 baht! Most of the time they never intended to pay you back. Edited June 11, 2017 by tomwct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman20 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 18 hours ago, kannot said: they just run away to another province and repeat more fool the shop keepers giving credit. ive never met so many bad people in one place as pattaya, thai and farangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman20 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, kannot said: but do they pay any interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUTHERNSTAR Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 3 hours ago, kannot said: but do they pay any interest? Yes with money they borrow or steal (taxes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky mike Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Managing debt here is nearly non existent. Keeping up appearances of success is important to most Thais, same as western world. I know of families that ave bought new pick up on the never never over 8 years then refinance again at huge interest. It is like diving into a swimming pool with a couple of concrete blocks around your neck....you can't eat "face ". ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 And boy what an assh***e you are if you ask for the money back. I (we but financed by me) have debtors of THB 4 mio - American, THB 30k -Thai, THB 50k -Thai, Thb350k - Thai and THB 1 k -Thai that I know of. Chances of recovery - NIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said: And boy what an assh***e you are if you ask for the money back. I (we but financed by me) have debtors of THB 4 mio - American, THB 30k -Thai, THB 50k -Thai, Thb350k - Thai and THB 1 k -Thai that I know of. Chances of recovery - NIL. Yes ask for it back = BLACKHEART, him no good etc etc "we financed by me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, kannot said: Yes ask for it back = BLACKHEART, him no good etc etc "we financed by me" Thanks yr response, takes the edge off it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odysseus123 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 minute ago, The Dark Lord said: Thanks yr response, takes the edge off it a bit. Yes-fortunately I am homeward bound where I can rebuild if the big "C"doesn't get me first. I was told that I had the obligatory "black heart" last night but I did point out that I was leaving an entire platoon of healthy NON WORKING Isaan Thai behind to carry on the customary family traditions.I have said goodbye to the notion that any of the loans will ever be repaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Just now, Odysseus123 said: Yes-fortunately I am homeward bound where I can rebuild if the big "C"doesn't get me first. I was told that I had the obligatory "black heart" last night but I did point out that I was leaving an entire platoon of healthy NON WORKING Isaan Thai behind to carry on the customary family traditions.I have said goodbye to the notion that any of the loans will ever be repaid. My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said: My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes . Im close to Hua Hin, Id say a lot of the villages are as you describe here, the difference is I have a half decent Wife who doesnt like this kind of crap also and has little to do with her own family of whom 70% are as you describe also Issan), sitting around waiting for the next handout and even when offered work decline. I have next to nothing to do with the village which Im outside of thankfully by some 4-5oo metres. This way for me things are ok, it started off all nice and lovely but quickly deteriorated after we found out what they were like, want you to help them but dont want to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odysseus123 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said: My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes . Yes-it is an astonishing experience and one that I have not been able to totally process as yet but fundamentally I am tired of being treated as an ATM by the family.Strangely enough I still believe that my wife had/has the best of intentions but what can you do when the entire tribe lives only five minutes away and meets for its som tum extravaganza every day. I have noticed a distinct change around here over the past few years (I dare not wonder why) and actually got the 7/11 treatment this morning whereas in the past I often had a bit of a laugh with every body trying Thinglish on me.It was fun then but it isn't now. Best of luck with your move and may you experience many happy days in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said: Thanks yr response, takes the edge off it a bit. You're in good company. I too loaned 150k to SIL but am getting it back on the drip after insisting the wife request repayments resume as initially agreed. Got the feeling I was expected to let it slide. I foolishly 'lent' stepson 1mB to set up a business. Somewhat of a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 23 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said: My friend, I wish to a speedy and full recovery. I too am considering the homeward bound option. Pissed off at illogical rationality for breaking my balls whilst letting the darlings get away with anything. Pissed off at the lies I am expected to believe, the distrust shown, the lack of respect from peasantry ( shopworkers in 7/11 making disparaging remarks in the belief that the farang does not understand) the whole Issan thing has disillusioned me completely. Am going to give it one final shot by moving South ( Rayong area or HH) and if I do not feel any improvement will return to the cold and the wet and taxes . Do like me and kannot and keep family at least 150 km away. I'm on Chonburi/Chachengsao border. 6km from nearest village. Nice community, some good friends. Off to one of their funerals now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeab1980 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 21 hours ago, Odysseus123 said: Curiously enough this subject is most timely. I know an expat whose wife ran one of those small mixed businesses.I heard this afternoon that the wife had raised significant amounts of credit on the shop (without the expats knowledge) and disbursed the funds to the usual crowd of non working family members. They were "crunched" last weekend and have fled to Woop Woop-leaving the expat dazed and bemused. There,but for the grace of god,go I. Nothing to do with this thread its about locals running up debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeab1980 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) We have a rock solid no credit policy in our shop. Took about a month to get it through to friends and family that no credit meant just that. We were with sister in law and her wife just about to open a hardware side to our buisness. Steel /cement/ sand/aggregate ect ect. Nothing too big. We sat and talked to both of them. The bottom line was they felt uncomfortable not giving credit to there friends so the partnership was ended. We opened on time and have a sound cash only buisness model. We now employ two Thai labourers to deliver the goods. (The sister and her wife lol) Bottom line is stick to the no credit policy in the end it works incidentally three other ma and pa shops in village now have the same policy. Edited June 12, 2017 by jeab1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeab1980 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Some great news in this thread at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 No credit given round here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandsu Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 6 hours ago, The Dark Lord said: And boy what an assh***e you are if you ask for the money back. I (we but financed by me) have debtors of THB 4 mio - American, THB 30k -Thai, THB 50k -Thai, Thb350k - Thai and THB 1 k -Thai that I know of. Chances of recovery - NIL. Never lend money to anyone . Be it farang in your home country or here . My sister in law has done quite well for herself (should be loaded) but the hangeroners have continuously pecked away to borrow money off her without even the slightest hint of paying back ! If Thais really worried about saving face why is it they turn up like it's nothing to every family function even though they owe hundreds of thousands of baht ? Thais will ask for money off anyone we are not the only victims . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2702 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 6 hours ago, grollies said: You're in good company. I too loaned 150k to SIL but am getting it back on the drip after insisting the wife request repayments resume as initially agreed. Got the feeling I was expected to let it slide. I foolishly 'lent' stepson 1mB to set up a business. Somewhat of a mistake. Ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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