Anti-graft body investigating my witnesses, Yingluck tells to court

[snoop1130]

Anti-graft body investigating my witnesses, Yingluck tells to court

By The Nation

 

 

YINGLUCK Shinawatra has claimed that witnesses testifying in her defence in a high-profile criminal case have been subject to a serious of corruption probes.

 

The former premier complained to the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders on Friday that a series of investigations had been launched into her witnesses.

 

She lodged a complaint on a day when her twelfth defendant witness gave evidence.

 

Former agriculture minister Yukol Limlaemthong testified in regard to the ministry’s zoning of rice growing and regulations to enter the scheme put in place during the Yingluck government’s rice mortgage scheme to ensure transparency.

 

Yingluck has been charged with negligence in her oversight of the scheme, which was allegedly plagued with corruption.

 

The former PM presented a complaint that witnesses were subject to fresh probes by a sub-panel of the National Anti-Corruption Commission after they testified before the court. She believed such action was unfair.

 

The court acknowledged her complaint but said it had no authority to order other organisations to stop performing their duty. But it would record this in the case report.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/breakingnews/30318253

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-6-16

[than]

11 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

The former premier complained to the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders on Friday that a series of investigations had been launched into her witnesses.

 

It seems that your "witnesses" are as corrupt as you

[Bluespunk]

Pick better witnesses. 

[candide]

3 minutes ago, than said:

 

It seems that your "witnesses" are as corrupt as you

Well, as she is not accused of corruption, it could be understood that they are not corrupt!

[robblok]

Oh dear poor guys.. corruption probes... now if they are innocent and good nothing will turn up... But if they are not they also lose their credibility in the YL case.. Guess why YL is so worried. 

[halloween]

42 minutes ago, candide said:

Well, as she is not accused of corruption, it could be understood that they are not corrupt!

She wasn't charged with perjury either (and we know why). Should we understand they are probably liars?

[Smarter Than You]

The real tragedy is that after PTP win the next election and assume power again; they won't go after the clowns currently persecuting them.

[YetAnother]

so what ? lives her own world surrounded by paid supporters

[robblok]

17 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

The real tragedy is that after PTP win the next election and assume power again; they won't go after the clowns currently persecuting them.

I hope they do (if there is dirt please use it) the more people going down (PTP included) for corruption the better. 

 

This is unfortunately how justice works here.. in power do as you please and no worries nobody will go after you.. out of power... damm crimes get exposed. That is why they were hanging on to power trying to get re elected fast to cover stuff up. Nobody wants to lose power.. then they lose protection too. Goes for all those who are involved in corruption. 

[JAG]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Oh dear poor guys.. corruption probes... now if they are innocent and good nothing will turn up... But if they are not they also lose their credibility in the YL case.. Guess why YL is so worried. 

Or perhaps the intention is to put pressure on them to ensure that they don't "turn up".?

 

What am I saying, shame on me for casting such unworthy slurs on such an august, politically impartial body.....

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

Or perhaps the intention is to put pressure on them to ensure that they don't "turn up".?

 

What am I saying, shame on me for casting such unworthy slurs on such an august, politically impartial body.....

Now would they would only have to worry if they are corrupt would they not. If they are corrupt are they good witnesses ? 

 

Your explanation is good too.. but again.. if they are not corrupt nothing will turn up will there so no worries. 

[halloween]

30 minutes ago, JAG said:

Or perhaps the intention is to put pressure on them to ensure that they don't "turn up".?

 

What am I saying, shame on me for casting such unworthy slurs on such an august, politically impartial body.....

Not the first time the NACC has been a problem for Yingluk, is it? Not quite as "flexible" as Tarit's DSI.

 

I can only assume the junta reversed her cuts to their funding.

[Cadbury]

Sadly corruption is killing Thailand. The end will not be nice.

[Grubster]

4 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

Sadly corruption is killing Thailand. The end will not be nice.

I'm not sure Thailand is any more corrupt than most western countries

[Cadbury]

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

I'm not sure Thailand is any more corrupt than most western countries

It's up there with the best.

[yellowboat]

11 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

The former PM presented a complaint that witnesses were subject to fresh probes by a sub-panel of the National Anti-Corruption Commission after they testified before the court. She believed such action was unfair.

What she is saying is that fresh probes could be construed as harassment of defense witnesses.  If the timing of these fresh probes coincide with testimony, she could associate them with coercion, intentional or unintentional.  She may have a point.

 

Sadly, the courts and any law enforcement agency are political pawns in Thailand.  There is no love of fairness in Thai government, just the love of self fulfillment. 

[al007]

An observation, I think her persecution is substantially less than Trumps

 

Maybe politician is no longer the career of first choice

 

God bless them both, I like and respect both

[halloween]

2 hours ago, yellowboat said:

What she is saying is that fresh probes could be construed as harassment of defense witnesses.  If the timing of these fresh probes coincide with testimony, she could associate them with coercion, intentional or unintentional.  She may have a point.

 

Sadly, the courts and any law enforcement agency are political pawns in Thailand.  There is no love of fairness in Thai government, just the love of self fulfillment. 

If somebody wants to stand up in court and define their involvement in a policy known to be corrupt, their testimony may well be fresh/additional evidence of their complicity. Failure to act on on such evidence would be negligence (you know, what she is charged with).

Any attempt to refute such evidence would result in perjury charges (you know, what she wasn't charged with, because the definition was temporarily changed)

[Muhendis]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

The former premier complained to the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders on Friday that a series of investigations had been launched into her witnesses.

So what?

[Yann55]

The pot calling the kettle black. Hilarious in a way but, mostly, pathetic.

 

Could things get even more surreal ? the answer is probably yes !

[Yann55]

12 hours ago, Grubster said:

I'm not sure Thailand is any more corrupt than most western countries

Thanks for saying that Grubster. I'm sure that this simple truth is as obvious to you as it is to me and to a few people, but for some odd reason, one keeps reading posts on this Forum which claim or imply that corruption is somehow worse here, when in reality it's just different in form.

 

In the West, of course if you hand a 100 dollar note to the cop that stops you for speeding or to a customs officer who catches you for importing too much booze, you're in for big trouble. In that sense, yes, corruption is worse here, because it happens also on these 'small' levels'. The way to stop that is well known, but not implemented, for financial, social and cultural reasons.

 

But if you go just one step up the corruption ladder, you quickly realize it's pretty much the same all over the planet. Businesses give money (or advantages) to the cops in order to get 'protection', politicians award public contracts to the companies that pay back, judges get money under the table, people with power, fame and money act is if they're above the law, etc etc.

 

And these are just examples of totally illegal corruption, but there are innumerable forms of legal  corruption to which, unfortunately, we have somehow grown accustomed to. Who would dare to pretend that elections nowadays aren't totally rigged by money and the endless manipulations it allows ? That the people who are in charge don't favour their business friends in every possible way ? That justice is the same for everyone, no matter if you're rich or poor ? Famous or unknown ? Is there anyone in the West who naively believe that rich people pay the taxes that they should be paying ?

 

The thing is, corruption is an effect, not a cause. Corruption grows when moral values and good public spirit decrease. When caring for oneself at the expense of everyone around is promoted as a normal 'winner' attitude. When 'respect for the law' becomes an pithless expression because laws themselves are seen as protecting a class rather than the whole population.

 

Is acting at this level, ie on the causes  of corruption, even possible ? How do you set about re-injecting hope, respect, love, empathy, honesty and selflessness in a society that sees these values as nothing but words ? The moments in history when these values prevailed are ridiculously short compared to milleniums of sheer barbarism. They are the exception, not the rule.

 

And we're not headed towards a more civilized society. We are turning our backs on one.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Yann55

[Smarter Than You]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

I hope they do (if there is dirt please use it) the more people going down (PTP included) for corruption the better. 

 

This is unfortunately how justice works here.. in power do as you please and no worries nobody will go after you.. out of power... damm crimes get exposed. That is why they were hanging on to power trying to get re elected fast to cover stuff up. Nobody wants to lose power.. then they lose protection too. Goes for all those who are involved in corruption. 

How to keep a check on those in power then??

Tough riddle this one, not sure if we can crack it.

The rest of the world uses elections, do you think they might be on to something there?

Maybe Thailand should give it a go eh?

Couldn't be worse than an unending cycle of coups could it?

 

[Smarter Than You]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

Now would they would only have to worry if they are corrupt would they not. If they are corrupt are they good witnesses ? 

 

Your explanation is good too.. but again.. if they are not corrupt nothing will turn up will there so no worries. 

"If they are not corrupt nothing will turn up".

Your faith in the Thai police and judicial system is entirely unwarranted.

 

BTW - How about the Red Bull kid,  he is clearly guilty, should he be worried about imminent imprisonment or is the system a joke?

[Moti24]

"Yingluck has been charged with negligence in her oversight of the scheme, which was allegedly plagued with corruption."

 

So, how is this scheme any different to other schemes!  Perhaps the envelope got lost in the post.

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

"Yingluck has been charged with negligence in her oversight of the scheme, which was allegedly plagued with corruption."

 

So, how is this scheme any different to other schemes!  Perhaps the envelope got lost in the post.

How about the level of corruption involved up to and including ministers, and the sheer amount of money wasted?

 

BTW the "little Johnny did it too" defence doesn't work.

[williamgeorgeallen]

13 hours ago, Grubster said:

I'm not sure Thailand is any more corrupt than most western countries

thailands corruption is to the point of being comical. try to live in thailand owing a business. the lawyers seem to have no morals or ethics so there is no accountability. people just do what ever they think they can buy their way out of. 

who ever is on ying lucks team will be hassled and most people in thailand with money are guilty of corruption to some level. you should see the way my accountant does my taxes. basically anyone with money is guilty of fraud.

[seajae]

maybe if she wasnt associated with so many corrupt people it wouldnt happen, like they say, when you lay with fleas.......

[Smarter Than You]

13 minutes ago, halloween said:

How about the level of corruption involved up to and including ministers, and the sheer amount of money wasted?

 

BTW the "little Johnny did it too" defence doesn't work.

 

http://thediplomat.com/2015/10/new-rice-scheme-reveals-thailand-juntas-dearth-of-ideas/

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

 

http://thediplomat.com/2015/10/new-rice-scheme-reveals-thailand-juntas-dearth-of-ideas/

Is it really necessary to try to drag every thread off topic with your strawman arguments?

 

BTW the author seems to have very little idea of what goes on in Thailand.  His "very same idea, or one very near to it " doesn't include over-payment for rice, doesn't include the government taking possession, paying for storage, or handing out dodgy commission to cronies to act as agents.

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

If somebody wants to stand up in court and define their involvement in a policy known to be corrupt, their testimony may well be fresh/additional evidence of their complicity. Failure to act on on such evidence would be negligence (you know, what she is charged with).

Any attempt to refute such evidence would result in perjury charges (you know, what she wasn't charged with, because the definition was temporarily changed)

Your comments that start with "you know" are beyond my comprehension.  She is charged with negligence, not corruption.  Those testifying on her behalf are facing fresh probes during that testimony, thus strengthening sentiment for her and making the government look even more coercive and heavy handed as usual.  They could have waited until the trial was over.  The greatest weapon law enforcement has is time.  Now the government looks unfair.  Most Thais have reconciled themselves to these sorts of things happening.