Refused a life in the UK test

[malct]

My wife was booked for her first life in the UK test in Carlisle at 1pm this afternoon , She arrived at 12:30 allowing plenty of time, At 12:35 she was taken into a room to check her documents, She had her Resident card, Bank statement and a driving licence.

During checking of the documents, The Guy asked her what was the card that she was showing proof of her ID, She replied, Its my indefinite leave to remain, He said can you answer again, She gave the same answer and then asked again, My wife thought he was wanting her name, So she gave her name,  she also said it was her Resident Permit, At that point he told her she was unable to take the test because she was unable to declare the name of the ID present. ( He told her that she had to say it was a Biometric  card)

 

You can imagine, My wife was gutted, I complaint to the manager with no joy and this was 15 minutes before the test was due to begin at 1pm. I did complain that its still 15 minutes to go before her test, But the guy would not listen and he told me to book another test. ( I have a written stamped statement from the test center) 

 

Even though my wife was saying the the card is indefinite leave to remain , Do you think we have the right to complain or to accept the decision.

 

It states the following in the rules

 

If you do not bring this evidence you will not be able to take the test and will not get a refund. The person taking the test will have to answer questions about information on their identity documents, address, and reasons for taking the test, without referring to the documents. If you cannot do this correctly you will not be able to take the test and will not get a refund.

Edited June 16, 2017 by malct

[NanLaew]

I recall  a post last year where a lady was refused the test because she could not state her UK addresses's postal code.

 

Little Hitlers eh?

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

I recall  a post last year where a lady was refused the test because she could not state her UK addresses's postal code.

 

Little Hitlers eh?

 

Is it any worse than being asked for endless pointless photocopies of documents by Thai immigration? Or photos of you and your wife in front of your house with the family dog in tow and signed statements from your neighbours certifying that you live together?

 

I think these people are unimaginative jobsworths all over the world. That said, an applicant not knowing where they live would make me suspicious too.

 

This UK procedure, unlike any Thai equivalent, seems to be extremely well documented with many websites explaining in huge detail what will be asked. And I doubt that the rules there change on a whim or depending on which way the wind is blowing as they do here.

[malct]

The Guy was a total jobs worth, He went for his manager who backed up his Supervisor.

 

Tried to put the following points across

1. It states on the biometric card that its a indefinite leave to remain , Its also a resident permit, But they wanted her to say the word biometric 

 

2. The test time was at 1pm with a instruction to turn up at 12:45, My wife was refused the test at 12:36 which i informed the guy and the manager but they didnt want to know, Even if my wife had walked out the day and walked back in again at 12:45 they still would not allow the test.

 

As you can tell, I am a upset by this, The guy asked my wife 3 or 4 times, The guy has stated it was a multiple  on a written that i asked him to write, But how many is  multiple?

 

Looked on the net regards refusals for the test, Most are regarding middle names missing, But nothing regards what happened with my wife.

 

The only reason why she is sitting the life in the UK is for citizenship which we are hoping to achieve this year, But to be totally honest, Is it worth it apart from getting a UK Passport 

[AlexRich]

It all sounds pretty appalling. It sounded a bit like the Deep South of the US, where they used every excuse in the book to deny black people their legal right to vote ... and I think they still do.

 

i would suggest that you and your wife persevere and don't be put off by people that are simply trying to wear you into submission.

[malct]

Just reread my last post, not sure what happened, but it suppose to say As you can tell, I am a upset by this, The guy asked my wife 3 or 4 times what the card was, The guy has stated on a letter that I asked him to write that he had asked my wife multiple times, But how many is  multiple?

 

On another note, the biometric/resident card has my wife's photo on, her driving license has her photo on and it was clear that the bank statement had her name and address, so I don't know why they need to ask questions on ID documents

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Is it any worse than being asked for endless pointless photocopies of documents by Thai immigration? Or photos of you and your wife in front of your house with the family dog in tow and signed statements from your neighbours certifying that you live together?

 

I think these people are unimaginative jobsworths all over the world. That said, an applicant not knowing where they live would make me suspicious too.

 

This UK procedure, unlike any Thai equivalent, seems to be extremely well documented with many websites explaining in huge detail what will be asked. And I doubt that the rules there change on a whim or depending on which way the wind is blowing as they do here.

Agree that unimaginative jobsworths are a universal, but when a Thai IO sends one running back to the bank to get a new bank letter, make an ATM transaction to confirm the funds didn't disappear overnight or draw a map to your house because the google maps printout is unacceptable, it is an annoyance and a relative inconvenience. Unlike the 'Life in the UK" test applicant, you aren't trying to get full residency and/or citizenship either, just trying to secure another relatively trouble-free year in your chosen paradise. Please spare us the 90-day reporting diatribe.

 

Apart from forking out the non-refundable fifty quid (plus 13 quid for the official '"Dummies Guide..." book), when an applicant for the much more onerous "Life in the UK" test has already shown that they are pursuing this earnestly by submitting to the test, already has multiple documents including photo ID to prove who she is and is refused to sit the test because she either didn't specifically use the word 'biometric' in her response or in the other case, couldn't state her postal code, I fail to see where either can be used as evidence of being unable to satisfy basic ID criteria. That is all that the jobsworth accepting the application has to do before permitting the applicant to do the test; no trick questions are required and I don't think this 'trap' is indicated in the officially sanctioned book referenced above, or on the many unofficial guides on the internet.

 

If a Thai IO started asking every extension applicant "What is this?" while holding up their previous extension stamps and the applicant replied, "It's my old marriage visa extension" and was thus summarily denied applying for the new extension because he mis-identified the primary document and given 24-hours to get out, we would all be spitting the dummy before cluttering up the airport check-in to go home and get a new visa.

[Tanoshi]

14 hours ago, malct said:

The Guy asked her what was the card that she was showing proof of her ID, She replied, Its my indefinite leave to remain, He said can you answer again, She gave the same answer and then asked again, My wife thought he was wanting her name, So she gave her name,  she also said it was her Resident Permit, At that point he told her she was unable to take the test because she was unable to declare the name of the ID present.

 

Even if your wife stated 'Resident Permit', as you also printed it, is factually wrong.

 

It is a Residence Permit (not Resident) which I think would have been acceptable as that is what's clearly printed on the card, although Biometric Residence permit would be a full and complete answer to his question.

[malct]

I will appeal against it and try for a refund, never read if anyone has been successful in getting a refund, but will let you know, in the meantime, I will have to book another test for 5 weeks time since Carlisle only holds tests 1 day in every 5 weeks.

 

[bobrussell]

My wife has been living over here on and off for well over a decade. She still has no clue what our postcode is nor our home telephone number. She gets me to write letters on her behalf!!

Lazy? Absolutely but she is who she says she is and has lived where she lives for that time. She has little clue about the postcode of our house in Bangkok nor actually the address where we plan to build a house later! Seems to be a perfectly standard thing for many Thais. Not a priority in life!

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, malct said:

I will appeal against it and try for a refund, never read if anyone has been successful in getting a refund, but will let you know, in the meantime, I will have to book another test for 5 weeks time since Carlisle only holds tests 1 day in every 5 weeks.

 

You can complain at [email protected]  

 

For a refund/complaint download: Lifeinuktest_refundform_master_2.doc 

 

According to their website you cannot request a refund for the following reasons.

You can ask for a refund if the test centre cancels the test.

You can’t ask for a refund for any other reason, for example if you brought the wrong ID, you were ill, you were late or you didn’t bring the right documents.

 

Technically she didn't bring the wrong documents and the centre cancelled it because she couldn't name the document to their satisfaction. At the end of the day it wasn't an English speaking and listening exam.

Good luck.

[7by7]

20 hours ago, malct said:

If you do not bring this evidence you will not be able to take the test and will not get a refund. The person taking the test will have to answer questions about information on their identity documents, address, and reasons for taking the test, without referring to the documents. If you cannot do this correctly you will not be able to take the test and will not get a refund.

The reason for asking these questions is to prevent personation; i.e. someone else taking the test on the applicant's behalf, possibly using fraudulent identity documents.

 

But if the only reason your wife was not allowed to take the test was because she called her BRP her ILR, then that does seem like pedantic jobsworthyness in the extreme.

 

12 hours ago, malct said:

The guy has stated on a letter that I asked him to write that he had asked my wife multiple times, But how many is  multiple?

 

More than once.

 

1 hour ago, malct said:

I will have to book another test for 5 weeks time since Carlisle only holds tests 1 day in every 5 weeks.

I can understand your anger and frustration, and hope that your complaint results in a refund of the fee, at least.

 

But the LitUK test for ILR was introduced in April 2007, so if she didn't take it for her ILR she must have waited at least 10 years before deciding to apply for British citizenship; so another 5 weeks isn't that long.

 

If she applied for and obtained her ILR after 2nd April 2007, she would have needed to have passed the test for that; in which case she can use the same pass for her citizenship application.

 

16 hours ago, malct said:

The only reason why she is sitting the life in the UK is for citizenship which we are hoping to achieve this year, But to be totally honest, Is it worth it apart from getting a UK Passport

Her choice. The main benefits are:

 

1)  ILR is, as the name suggests, indefinite; citizenship is permanent. If an ILR holder spends a continuous period of 2 years or more out of the UK their ILR will lapse and they will need the appropriate visa to enter the UK again.

 

Furthermore, if Border Force officers at a UK port of entry have reason to believe an ILR holder is not a UK resident but simply using their ILR for frequent and/or regular visits they can cancel the ILR on the spot. Although the person would be allowed entry as a visitor on that occasion, they would need to obtain the appropriate UK visa in future.

 

Once granted, British citizenship cannot lapse, no matter how frequently, and how long for, the citizen leaves the UK.

 

2) Once she has British citizenship, she wont have to renew her BRP every 10 years nor notify UKVI of any change in circumstances such as a change of address or if it is lost or stolen.

 

3) A British passport allows visa free entry as a tourist to far more countries than a Thai one does. Including, of course, within the EEA. 

 

We will have to wait and see what the situation for those looking to work, study, retire etc. in other EEA countries will be post Brexit, but I doubt anything will change as far as tourist visits are concerned.

 

4) As a British citizen she will be able to partake fully in life in the UK; including voting.

[Tanoshi]

I always considered the LinUK test a sham anyway.

 

Most British citizens would fail it, yet the UKVI state that to pass the test you will need to be competent in English.

 

Most that I know passed the test by using the online practice test sites, and actually memorising the questions and answers, rather than being able to read and understand them.

 

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I always considered the LinUK test a sham anyway.

 

Most British citizens would fail it,

 Whilst it is probably true that most British born would fail the test without some study before hand, personally I see that as a failing of the British educational system rather than the test.

 

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

yet the UKVI state that to pass the test you will need to be competent in English.

 

Most that I know passed the test by using the online practice test sites, and actually memorising the questions and answers, rather than being able to read and understand them.

 A phenomenal feat of memory, memorising the entire question bank plus the correct answer to each of those questions!

 

But surely to do that, then to recognise the question which appears during the test, and recognise which option is the correct answer; some English reading ability is required?

[malct]

Thank you 7by7 regards "But the LitUK test for ILR was introduced in April 2007, so if she didn't take it for her ILR she must have waited at least 10 years before deciding to apply for British citizenship; so another 5 weeks isn't that long"

 

My wife came under the old rules and we married in august 2011 and she gained her indefinite leave to remain in September 2014, is it correct that my wife can apply for citizenship after 5 years? 

regards gaining citizenship, we are trying to get as much done as soon as we can so we can relax and not worry about anything and start to enjoy life since I am now retired

 

[7by7]

33 minutes ago, malct said:

My wife came under the old rules and we married in august 2011 and she gained her indefinite leave to remain in September 2014, is it correct that my wife can apply for citizenship after 5 years? 

 Five years is the residential qualifying period for standard applicants, but not for spouses and civil partners of a British citizen.

 

For those the basic residential requirements are:

1. have no time limit on their stay in the UK; i.e. hold ILR or the equivalent;
2. have been legally in the UK on the date three years prior to submitting the application and during the intervening three years have spent no more than 270 days in total out of the UK with no more than 90 days in the final year.

So, provided she met the second requirement, your wife could have applied for British citizenship as soon as she had been granted her ILR. If she hadn't been in the UK for three years when she received her ILR, then she could have applied as soon as she had been here for three years.

 

As she applied for her ILR in 2014, she must have passed the LitUK test for that application. In which case there is no need for her to take it again, she can use that pass for her citizenship application as well; provided she still has confirmation of her pass (see question 1.22 on the application form and the bottom of page 13 in the guidance booklet).

 

If she no longer has this document, then she will have to take the test again.

[malct]

Sorry I made a mistake, she got her ilr in September 2013 and came under the rules where you do not need lituk. 

[KittenKong]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Agree that unimaginative jobsworths are a universal, but when a Thai IO sends one running back to the bank to get a new bank letter, make an ATM transaction to confirm the funds didn't disappear overnight or draw a map to your house because the google maps printout is unacceptable, it is an annoyance and a relative inconvenience. Unlike the 'Life in the UK" test applicant, you aren't trying to get full residency and/or citizenship either, just trying to secure another relatively trouble-free year in your chosen paradise.

 

OK, let's compare like with like.

 

Q) How easy is it to get permanent residency here?

 

A) Well nigh impossible.

 

Next comparison.

[Tanoshi]

Because she is the official spouse of a British citizen she can apply as soon as she has ILR and passed the LinUK test.

 

If your wife had taken the LinUK  before or when she was granted ILR in 2014, she could have applied then.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, malct said:

Sorry I made a mistake, she got her ilr in September 2013 and came under the rules where you do not need lituk. 

 As I said earlier; the LitUK requirement of ILR was introduced w.e.f. 2nd April 2007.

 

Although at that time the requirement could also be met by passing an approved ESOL with citizenship course.

 

The test was substantially revised in 2013, and that is when, if memory serves, the ESOL with citizenship alternative was withdrawn.

 

I assume that as your wife applied for ILR before this came into effect, which I believe was 28th October 2013, she used ESOL with citizenship instead of the LitUK test when she applied for her ILR?

 

In which case, she will have to pass the LitUK test in order to apply for naturalisation.

[malct]

Hi 7By7

 

That is correct, She did the ESOL courses and gained the ilr before the new changes.

 

I am just filling in the complaint/refund document and just looking on my wife's Biometric residence permit, nowhere does it say the word Biometric on the front or the back, it only says Residence Permit on the top, then Settlement (Type of Visa) and then Indefinite leave to remain (Remarks)

I find it strange that on these cards, it does not say BRP or Biometric, Unless my wife has the wrong type of card

[7by7]

UK residence cards are biometric and simply say 'Residence Card.'

 

See B. Residence Cards (Biometric Format) from the bottom of page 8 in this Home Office document. 

 

The design is the same for all, and includes the type of leave granted and other remarks, see page 10 and 11 for examples of this.

[samsensam]

 

my sister (well educated professional) married and moved to live in Australia. over a period of time she, and her Australian husband, had to go through a series of individual interviews where the minutia of their lives in the uk prior to marriage and in australia following marriage was investigated. it was way over the top for a clearly legitimate marriage but that's how immigration works and unfortunately you just have to accept it.

[7by7]

Samsensam, not sure what your post has to do with the topic; which is about a candidate for the LitUK test proving their identity!

 

Malct and his wife would have already satisfied UKVI of the genuineness of their relationship; otherwise she would not have been granted her initial visa, let alone ILR!

 

I know F.A. about Australian immigration rules and procedures, but from what I've read here they do seem more onerous than the UK's. The UK abolished what was called the primary purpose rule, which required spouses of British citizens to prove a negative, i.e. the main reason for their marriage was not to obtain British residence,  in the 1990s. Does Australia still have such a rule?

 

37 minutes ago, samsensam said:

it was way over the top for a clearly legitimate marriage

How were the Australian authorities supposed to know that without seeking the evidence?

 

Although, as said, the UK no longer has the primary purpose rule, applicants still have to satisfy UKVI that their relationship is genuine and subsisting at each visa and leave to remain application stage; although this is usually done via documentary evidence rather than an interview.

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by 7by7
Addendum

[theoldgit]

Off topic posts removed.

[Suradit69]

On 6/17/2017 at 0:13 AM, KittenKong said:

And I doubt that the rules there change on a whim or depending on which way the wind is blowing as they do here.

Some farang here cause a great deal of wind to blow about everything in Thailand and so many others seem to continue on without any hassles. As usually happens when something is posted regarding issues outside Thailand, someone immediately has to redirect the issue to some whinge about Thailand.

[helloagain]

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 10:25 PM, NanLaew said:

I recall  a post last year where a lady was refused the test because she could not state her UK addresses's postal code.

 

Little Hitlers eh?

But its the same treatment we get here from thai

[cliveshep]

It has always been my personal opinion that the LitUK test was designed for failure, and the OP's wife's got caught in the "fail a spouse migrant by any means trap" that exists in the UK. Authority will say they followed the rules to the letter and that is how they do it - to the letter. It's probably only a matter of time before they include the punctuation too.

 

I was married to a filipina before, so easy to get ILR then, but now, well-nigh impossible which is why my wife and I sold up and came here to LOS (she is a Thai). If you are retired you are stuffed anyway, unless you have a pension exceeding £18.600 p.a. Hahahaha - as if THAT is likely!

 

The intent is by any means to reduce immigration, except of course by leaving the EU which would or should reduce it and stop all these male fighting-age Islamic migrants flooding in pretending to be children, or persecuted or in danger. Notice, they seldom bring their family's with them. No - it's the spouses who get hammered with all this rubbish, migrants whether legal or otherwise get to stay and get assistance without needing to show income or knowledge of English or pass any tests.

 

 

[KittenKong]

34 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Some farang here cause a great deal of wind to blow about everything in Thailand and so many others seem to continue on without any hassles. As usually happens when something is posted regarding issues outside Thailand, someone immediately has to redirect the issue to some whinge about Thailand.

 

And why not, as this is a Thai forum and the comments are entirely true?

[Get Real]

On 2017-06-16 at 5:25 PM, NanLaew said:

I recall  a post last year where a lady was refused the test because she could not state her UK addresses's postal code.

 

Little Hitlers eh?

 

On 2017-06-17 at 11:31 AM, bobrussell said:

My wife has been living over here on and off for well over a decade. She still has no clue what our postcode is nor our home telephone number. She gets me to write letters on her behalf!!

Lazy? Absolutely but she is who she says she is and has lived where she lives for that time. She has little clue about the postcode of our house in Bangkok nor actually the address where we plan to build a house later! Seems to be a perfectly standard thing for many Thais. Not a priority in life!

 

If you just can´t remember your postal code, then it´s time to rethink. If you do not have any psyschic illness that prevent it.
I see it as a fully right descision to deny such a person the test.