Thailand's Roads

[ericthai]

13 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

Heavy overloaded trucks......

and poor quality material / workmanship.  

[Ulic]

Planned obsolesces. Build a road, a job for months. Repairing the road, job for life.

[Grumpy Duck]

12 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Yes, but Western standards and Aussie specs do not allow for, nor cater for illegal well overloaded 18 ton trucks, carrying sometimes triple weight allowed. As a previous poster mentioned, it is overweight trucks causing the majority of the problem. Hence you may see them moving at night, driving in convoy, because they know their load is illegal. Generally, 9 times out of 10, sugar cane.

Overloaded trucks cause grooves in the asphalt where tires ride. Not potholes. This is also caused by poor surface prep (compaction). Failing to use aggregate substructure poor quality asphalt can be a contribution also. Potholes can be attributed to several errors; leaking gasoline, diesel fuel, or even oil & other lubricants, asphalt is made from oil, and oil will desolve asphalt in time. Removing a portion of asphalt to make utility repairs, or the paving contractor failing to adjust manhole cover elevations. There is also errors in construction, a water leak causing puddles just prior to paving? Prior potholes not being properly repaired when resurfacing. Also utilities leaking water. However, usually potholes develop over years not usually months, with exceptions. 

 

[Grumpy Duck]

12 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Yes, but Western standards and Aussie specs do not allow for, nor cater for illegal well overloaded 18 ton trucks, carrying sometimes triple weight allowed. As a previous poster mentioned, it is overweight trucks causing the majority of the problem. Hence you may see them moving at night, driving in convoy, because they know their load is illegal. Generally, 9 times out of 10, sugar cane.

Overloaded trucks cause grooves in the asphalt where tires ride. Not potholes. This is also caused by poor surface prep (compaction). Failing to use aggregate substructure poor quality asphalt can be a contribution also. Potholes can be attributed to several errors; leaking gasoline, diesel fuel, or even oil & other lubricants, asphalt is made from oil, and oil will desolve asphalt in time. Removing a portion of asphalt to make utility repairs, or the paving contractor failing to adjust manhole cover elevations. There is also errors in construction, a water leak causing puddles just prior to paving? Prior potholes not being properly repaired when resurfacing. Also utilities leaking water. However, usually potholes develop over years not usually months 

 

[Grumpy Duck]

In the past year I watched as a paving contractor repaved a portion of Suttisan Winnitchai Rd. They simply ground down the existing surface, then paved over it using 1lift with a small vibratory roller. They made no repairs of existing potholes. Within a couple of weeks we could see & feel the results, total uneven surface,  many potholes returning right away. It was the worst job I have seen performed ever. I wonder if the contractor was paid or penalized?

 

It is true concrete highways are longer lasting and have fewer potholes. But there are much more costly errors. Improper substructure, a clay or sandy soil base requires different substructures clay tends to expand & contract as moisture comes & goes. When a leaking water line saturates soil under concrete the soil expands, lifting sections of concrete often at expansion joints then when the leaking pipes are abandoned and the soil drys out it will contract this time causing concrete to drop. Often highway departments will simply use asphalt ramps where sections of concrete rise & fall. Truckers complain about concrete roads as they cause trucks to bounce causing damage. Now some states in the US are covering concrete with asphalt, some states are experimenting with grinding up old tires and mixing in asphalt. A green building discovery. 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Grumpy Duck
Elderly

[superal]

10 hours ago, Falcon said:

It's a simple matter really, the roads are paid for by the council funding, the contractors bid for the contract and pay the councilors money to get their bid accepted. This is an ongoing thing with the roads here in Thailand and a great money earner all round every time they 'repair' the road, so, if they were to do a good job and make sure that the roads lasted for a year or two then no one would be getting the recurring money on a monthly basis. Logic really, well, here in Thailand anyway.

Heard that theory before but found it hard to believe but it is plausible . I live near Surin and the route 214 between Surin & Prasat has been worked on / renewed for the last 5 years and has to be the worse road construction I have seen . Sections resemble a ploughed field and newly tarmaced carriageways are resurfaced after a year or so . It seems like an afterthought that they built a central reservation which reduced the lanes either side to a tight width and overtaking is too tight within your own dual carriageway . Then sections of the hard shoulder and inner first lane were crumbling so many of the heavy lorries use the outside lane which is now breaking down .

          I did hear that the councillors wages were low but when election times come they ferry their local people , who work in Bangkok , back up to their villages to vote for them and actually pay them money , such are the potential rewards once in office . Perks of the job rewards exceed the wages  and no tax to pay .     

[superal]

43 minutes ago, Grumpy Duck said:

In the past year I watched as a paving contractor repaved a portion of Suttisan Winnitchai Rd. They simply ground down the existing surface, then paved over it using 1lift with a small vibratory roller. They made no repairs of existing potholes. Within a couple of weeks we could see & feel the results, total uneven surface,  many potholes returning right away. It was the worst job I have seen performed ever. I wonder if the contractor was paid or penalized?

 

It is true concrete highways are longer lasting and have fewer potholes. But there are much more costly errors. Improper substructure, a clay or sandy soil base requires different substructures clay tends to expand & contract as moisture comes & goes. When a leaking water line saturates soil under concrete the soil expands, lifting sections of concrete often at expansion joints then when the leaking pipes are abandoned and the soil drys out it will contract this time causing concrete to drop. Often highway departments will simply use asphalt ramps where sections of concrete rise & fall. Truckers complain about concrete roads as they cause trucks to bounce causing damage. Now some states in the US are covering concrete with asphalt, some states are experimenting with grinding up old tires and mixing in asphalt. A green building discovery. 

You are well informed , ex civil engineer ?

[Grumpy Duck]

5 minutes ago, superal said:

You are well informed , ex civil engineer ?

Nope. I was a member of Int'l Union of Operating Engineers Local 12 from 1978 thru present, now retired.  A fancy way of saying heavy equipment operator.  We fix real life screw up Engineers never see on paper. 555

Edited June 17, 2017 by Grumpy Duck
Oopsie

[bbbbooboo]

hmmmm..... maybe because the roads were never built properly in the first place and the repairs are the same standard.This results in the lethal mixture of dangerous drivers on dangerous roads, giving the carnage we see on a daily basis.

[thailand49]

Agree, all of the above and more.

 

 

[jeab1980]

From the roads to the rice fields to the justice system to the prisons to the laws. Seems everyone with a few exeptions according to the great and good Thai visa posters are corrupt all taking back handers and giving the same. It wouldnt be a nice day in my paradise without one comment on bribery.

I would go out and take pictures of the concrete roads surrounding us many miles of tbe5m not a pot hole in site but i would only be accused of being a "Thai appologist" or someone has paid me not to take pictures of potholes. Im not saying there aren't millions of pot holes around. Just that we have a good three village local goverment amphoe and three wise head men who actually talk to each other and pool resources.

Edited June 18, 2017 by jeab1980

[Farang99]

21 hours ago, superal said:

But you would think that their engineers would be aware of the construction mode and the future failings . Not exactly rocket science to copy western standards or Aussie specs . 

But the more often they have to repair the road, the more money they make QED!

 

[wildewillie89]

15 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

From the roads to the rice fields to the justice system to the prisons to the laws. Seems everyone with a few exeptions according to the great and good Thai visa posters are corrupt all taking back handers and giving the same. It wouldnt be a nice day in my paradise without one comment on bribery.

I would go out and take pictures of the concrete roads surrounding us many miles of tbe5m not a pot hole in site but i would only be accused of being a "Thai appologist" or someone has paid me not to take pictures of potholes. Im not saying there aren't millions of pot holes around. Just that we have a good three village local goverment amphoe and three wise head men who actually talk to each other and pool resources.

Wouldn't it be a small Tessaban with only three villages? As far as I am aware Amphoe has no say in roads or do your 3 wise head men. It is purely a Tessaban matter, and highways are a seperate section all together. 

Yes, I agree that many on here have no idea what they are talking about (including you a lot of the time), but posters on here especially do not quite fully understand corruption vs systems. So they claim corruption for every tiny little thing, which is just silly. 

 

But building roads is one thing that is undoubtedly a corrupt process unfortunately a lot of the time.

[superal]

2 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Wouldn't it be a small Tessaban with only three villages? As far as I am aware Amphoe has no say in roads or do your 3 wise head men. It is purely a Tessaban matter, and highways are a seperate section all together. 

Yes, I agree that many on here have no idea what they are talking about (including you a lot of the time), but posters on here especially do not quite fully understand corruption vs systems. So they claim corruption for every tiny little thing, which is just silly. 

 

But building roads is one thing that is undoubtedly a corrupt process unfortunately a lot of the time.

Ok , so thats the way it works here but correct  me if I am wrong , I seem to remember the Thai PM saying he was going to stop all corruption within national and local government affairs . Seems to be a tall task to me .

[wildewillie89]

31 minutes ago, superal said:

Ok , so thats the way it works here but correct  me if I am wrong , I seem to remember the Thai PM saying he was going to stop all corruption within national and local government affairs . Seems to be a tall task to me .

That is supposedly the idea of the 2 elected politicians from each village, to keep check on the Mayor. But generally what happens, is the Mayor comes from a rich family. I know of one Mayor (who I may or may not work for), that pays the politicians at their monthly meeting. Got the Mrs to ask the father-in-law, who is also a Mayor why he does it. Insurance. In case shit hits the fan later on, he knows they can back him up.

My Tessaban not long ago voted against painting safety lines on the road due to the fact the father-in-law refused to pay them to vote yes lol. He had to threaten them with the Governor coming to meet them to ask them why they are choosing to slow down the development of the community...so they changed their vote the next week. 

I think there will be a push (in some areas at least) regarding local politicians paying for votes under the Army government. Wont take as much to catch people - if there is another election lol. Father-in-law, is also trying to push it through as he doesn't have the money to compete against some of the rich Chinese haha. He took office when the sub-district was nothing due to the last Mayor being so useless (didn't even bother to get running water for the people, when it is under 5km from city centre lol). Since the father has been in office he is now ranked 11 out of the 7,000 plus Mayors due to how far he has  brought it along

However, a rich Chinese lady from Bangkok, whose son is a pilot has just moved back into the area after a career in the big city. And we all know how stupid some Thai can be if you dangle a bit of money in front of them. 

Being ex-army he is lucky, he gets his budgets directly from Bangkok. On the odd occasion the Amphoe will get budgets for little things like digging canals etc, however, they do not communicate with the Tessaban so the boss looks amazing (trying to poach a Governor position). Some pretty fishy things going on in A***** offices. Fair to say the old man isn't liked by a lot of the big people in the region (costing them so much corruption money), but whilst the Army is there, it is benefiting our community at least. Less corruption, and more money purely going into the community (in our particular area obviously, no way am i saying it is benefiting every area in Thailand).

But yes, massive roads (pardon the pun) ahead, cant see anything happening of real value for a long, long time. It is hard to develop in Thai, something as simple as actually paying legal police fines would help. Instead of people handing over 100 baht when stopped, pay the legal fine, half of it will go back into the municipality budget, and will improve things like roads. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by wildewillie89

[thaiguzzi]

14 hours ago, heybuz said:

have you seen the size of the mining equipment on aussie roads, also road trains which are yhe lenght of a football pitch

Yes i have. Horses for courses.

The Australian Federal government will no doubt design these roads for those type of loads in the first place.

Here, the back roads, where the convoys of illegally loaded sugar cane trucks drive, avoiding main highways and big roads to avoid police and tax or hopefully, confiscation of the truck and load,are not designed for a 30 ton truck, let alone 50-60 tons...

[maoro2013]

Shortcuts in construction to work within budget but leave a healthy bit left over for the corruption.

[Maejo Man]

Even the the "new" airport in Bangkok was not immune from poor construction. The main runway started to break up after the first year, and surprise, surprise they found that insufficient concrete had been used. I wonder who pocketed the millions from that little job! 

[jeab1980]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Wouldn't it be a small Tessaban with only three villages? As far as I am aware Amphoe has no say in roads or do your 3 wise head men. It is purely a Tessaban matter, and highways are a seperate section all together. 

Yes, I agree that many on here have no idea what they are talking about (including you a lot of the time), but posters on here especially do not quite fully understand corruption vs systems. So they claim corruption for every tiny little thing, which is just silly. 

 

But building roads is one thing that is undoubtedly a corrupt process unfortunately a lot of the time.

Ah my stalker is back. Im Moving on to issan forum now save you the problem of finding me. Small minds with nothing to do but stalk and leave pathetic messages sums you up me thinks.

[wildewillie89]

7 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Ah my stalker is back. Im Moving on to issan forum now save you the problem of finding me. Small minds with nothing to do but stalk and leave pathetic messages sums you up me thinks.

Stalker? How many times have you quoted me? Have I ever called you a stalker? 

You do realise, with the same members each day and the small amount of posts, people will be in continual contact with each other?

I live in Issan so I also look at that forum...shock horror. 

Pathetic messages? You clearly wrote a message. I agreed with aspects of your message even, and i corrected the parts of the message where you showed no knowledge of the country. I would have thought it was, one, positive (agreeing with you), and two, helpful and informative. Just shows you just comment on your irrational hatred of a user (who has proved your set views wrong previously), rather than the actual information that is conveyed. Grow up, we are all adults. Live and learn, rather than acting like a child. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by wildewillie89

[jeab1980]

9 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Stalker? How many times have you quoted me? Have I ever called you a stalker? 

You do realise, with the same members each day and the small amount of posts, people will be in continual contact with each other?

I live in Issan so I also look at that forum...shock horror. 

Pathetic messages? You clearly wrote a message. I agreed with aspects of your message even, and i corrected the parts of the message where you showed no knowledge of the country. I would have thought it was, one, positive (agreeing with you), and two, helpful and informative. Just shows you just comment on your irrational hatred of a user (who has proved your set views wrong previously), rather than the actual information that is conveyed. Grow up, we are all adults. Live and learn, rather than acting like a child. 

Stalker go away

[wildewillie89]

3 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Stalker go away

So not going to reply with a on-topic message regarding the relationship between an Amphoe, head of villages and the building of roads? I am genuinely curious as to what the relationship is, as my understanding is there isn't a relationship....but you seem to be the 'know it all' of the class, so i am happy to be proven wrong. 

Give me some details of this relationship, it may actually move into the direction of some sort of relevance of the thread topic, rather than your school boy name calling :)

Edited June 18, 2017 by wildewillie89

[kannot]

42 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Ah my stalker is back. Im Moving on to issan forum now save you the problem of finding me. Small minds with nothing to do but stalk and leave pathetic messages sums you up me thinks.

Thats  right anyone you disagree with "becomes" a  stalker eh or "spouts bile".............you must feel so superior

[jeab1980]

53 minutes ago, kannot said:

Thats  right anyone you disagree with "becomes" a  stalker eh or "spouts bile".............you must feel so superior

Lol from mr kan not thats a joke  trot on mr dour

[rickb]

I think it's also the fact that no one checks the work of a contractor when he's completed.  If the specs for an asphalt road call for 3 inches of asphalt, nothing precludes the contractor from laying only 1 inch only but getting paid for 3 inches.  Nobody checks the final work upon completion.  They just simply say ok, thanks.  I've watched many resurface jobs  on local roads and it's sad to see the contractor do no proper preparation of the sub-surface and then to lay just one layer of asphalt.  Wam, bam, thank you M'am!

[kannot]

15 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Lol from mr kan not thats a joke  trot on mr dour

What  happened to "Kannot  like Thailand"? got  bored with that one eh?

Edited June 18, 2017 by kannot

[jeab1980]

I will leave you with one or two thoughts. 

1. If a person i respect informed me that certain tasks including road maintenance comes under local tessabann control i would belive him over certain posters on here full stop.

2. I really fail to see why certain posters continualy pour scorn on every post anybody bothers to put on here. This forum would be better named Thai vicious forum.

A slight spelling mistake brings out the grammer police. God forbid you go against certain posters opinnions you then are a victim of forum mates post all condeming you. Then suddenly you (me) are the one who is opinionated.  Then you are followed from thread to thread. No matter what you (me) post they all disagree. There are so many barrack room/arm chair lawyers on here its hard to see the wood through the tree's. 

If you post a question beacuse you dont know the answer or you wouldnt put on here inthe first place. You are usually accused of being a Troll or stupid or not knowing the diffrence between!!!! Er yes that why you post duhhhhh.

So i will depart TV and only return when i need advise and then i will pm the real experts. Not you arm chair lawyers/keyboard warriors/the ive been here 20 yr warriors or the  (and the worst ones by far)  im always right warriors. Eh wille wonker and kan not

Edited June 18, 2017 by jeab1980

[kannot]

12 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

I will leave you with one or two thoughts. 

1. If a person i respect informed me that certain tasks including road maintenance comes under local tessabann control i would belive him over certain posters on here full stop.

2. I really fail to see why certain posters continualy pour scorn on every post anybody bothers to put on here. This forum would be better named Thai vicious forum.

A slight spelling mistake brings out the grammer police. God forbid you go against certain posters opinnions you then are a victim of forum mates post all condeming you. Then suddenly you (me) are the one who is opinionated.  Then you are followed from thread to thread. No matter what you (me) post they all disagree. There are so many barrack eoom/arm chair lawyers on here its had to see the wood through the tree's. 

If you post a question beacuse you dont know the answer or you wouldnt pot in the first place. You are usually accused of being a Troll or stupid or not knowing the diffrence between!!!! Er yes that why you post duhhhhh.

So i will depart TV and only return when i need advise and then i will pm the real experts. Not you arm chair lawyers/keyboard warriors/the ive been here 20 yr warriors or the  (and the worst ones by far)  im always right warriors. Eh wille wonker and kan not

 Your last "slight  spelling mistake" was almost illegible to read, there were  so many letters  wrong it was extremely  difficult to comprehend what you were saying. 

You need to grow  up although at 60 thats unlikely I guess (Wille Wonker unnecessary), most criticism of Thailand  is warranted and I dont mind another viewpoint if it provides decent  "evidence" and this is where our first falling out  occurred with the "Ghost story" and Mrs  Jeab

As usual you will "depart"

Well...........some good  news then

Experts.....that  will be the ones "you" agree with.

Ive had my  mind changed on many subjects here from posters like Guesthouse and Naam as they provided good and clear explanations with evidence.

Edited June 18, 2017 by kannot

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

I will leave you with one or two thoughts. 

1. If a person i respect informed me that certain tasks including road maintenance comes under local tessabann control i would belive him over certain posters on here full stop.

2. I really fail to see why certain posters continualy pour scorn on every post anybody bothers to put on here. This forum would be better named Thai vicious forum.

A slight spelling mistake brings out the grammer police. God forbid you go against certain posters opinnions you then are a victim of forum mates post all condeming you. Then suddenly you (me) are the one who is opinionated.  Then you are followed from thread to thread. No matter what you (me) post they all disagree. There are so many barrack room/arm chair lawyers on here its hard to see the wood through the tree's. 

If you post a question beacuse you dont know the answer or you wouldnt put on here inthe first place. You are usually accused of being a Troll or stupid or not knowing the diffrence between!!!! Er yes that why you post duhhhhh.

So i will depart TV and only return when i need advise and then i will pm the real experts. Not you arm chair lawyers/keyboard warriors/the ive been here 20 yr warriors or the  (and the worst ones by far)  im always right warriors. Eh wille wonker and kan not

So you do not respect a person whose father in law is the Mayor...my Director at my work place is the blood brother of the boss of the Amphoe. The overall boss of my workplace is another Mayor. Various uncles are heads of villages and politicians. Tell me what you do respect when it comes to finding out information (as evidently from your post, you have absolutely no idea). Do you just not find out anything, and that is why you go around making false claims about the country? 

I have been here for just under a couple of years, not 20 years. Bit of a reflection on how much all these 20 year people have found out in their time lol. Keyboard warrior? You can come to my city if you like, i will introduce to the relevant Mayors, and they can explain the road system :). And I am happily proved wrong, I had my eyes opened up just the other day in another thread on a social matter. I, like most, just need some reasonable discussion. 

Opinions can remain opinions, however, when someone posts a bunch of crap that is not at all factually correct as the countries systems do not run like that, then yes...you will be corrected (as all members should who post misleading information).
 

Edited June 18, 2017 by wildewillie89

[bontang]

On ‎17‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 10:40 AM, phuketrichard said:

Heavy overloaded trucks......

Yeah you can blame the heavy overloaded Trucks but not the real issue, 

Foundation,

Start with the proper materials & compaction @ 95%,  if the Crews don't get the proper road base Material  to compact no way will the roads last, then comes along the Grader operator Premixing & the Compactor Roller that should follow up the grader vibrating & compacting the road base materials don't happen due to the guy on the roller is asleep under a tree or hiding underneath bridge,   Mate long story 

welcome to the unknown Paradise