Academics concerned over Chinese exemptions for high-speed rail project

[rooster59]

Academics concerned over Chinese exemptions for high-speed rail project

By Pratch Rujivanarom,
Somluck Srimalee,
Wichit Chaitrong
The Nation

 

 

ACADEMICS and professional bodies are concerned about the government’s accountability for potential damages that may arise after multiple legal exemptions were granted to the Thai-Chinese high-speed railway project under Article 44 of the interim charter.

 

Sumet Ongkittikul, Thailand Development Research Institute research director, who specialises in logistics and infrastructure projects, asked who would be responsible for damages as the public procurement law will be overriden.

 

Since the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO)’s order, which was issued yesterday, allows the government to bypass the normal bidding process, there will be no competition, which makes it difficult to get the best price for Thailand, he said. 

 

He said China does not understand the way Thailand manages large investment projects so it seems to have imposed its own practices here. 

 

Usually, investment projects proposed by the State Railway of Thailand must be screened by the State Enterprise Policy Office and the National Economic and Social Development Board before they are presented to Cabinet for approval.

 

Then, rounds of competitive bidding would be held to decide who will win the project in a process that creates a level playing field and ensures decisions in the best public interest.

 

Sakon Varanyuwatana, dean of the Thammasat University’s Economics Faculty, said that resorting to Article 44 of the interim charter to grant many legal exemptions will seriously affect the checks and balance mechanism on public infrastructure projects.

 

Samart Rachapolasit, a former deputy governor of Bangkok, said resolving legal obstacles alone will not be sufficient to get the Thai-Chinese high-speed railway project off the ground and turn it into an economically worthwhile investment. In his opinion, the extended delay has resulted from the incompetence of leadership at the Transport Ministry and State Railway of Thailand while he suggested that the first phase of construction should cover a total of 252 kilometres from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima, not just 3.5km as planned by the ministry. In addition, Samart said, there must be an integrated railway and urban development plan which includes new towns, industrial estates, universities and a provincial government office along the route.

 

However, deputy premier Somkid Jatusripitak said it is necessary to push forward with the scheme since it will also link Thailand with other Asean countries.

 

“We should not be concerned only about the commercial value of this project as it will link the Thai economy with other countries in Asean and with China, that will create a long-term economic value. We will push forward this project and extend the route to Nong Khai province (to link with Laos),” Somkid said.

 

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said construction work is expected to start in August or September this year for the first phase of the project from Klang Dong station in Nakhon Ratchasima to Muang district in Nakhon Ratchasima with a total distance of 3.5km.

 

Afterwards, the ministry will move to work on the second phase of 11km, the third phase of 100km and fourth phase of 119km, linking Bangkok with Nakhon Ratchasima. 

 

The Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima route will cost more than Bt170 billion.

 

The route will be expanded from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai.

 

He said the ministry also is negotiating with the Architects Council of Thailand and Engineering Council of Thailand on issues concerning Chinese engineers and architects. “They will have to apply to get licences to do business in Thailand, but under Article 44, both professional bodies in Thailand will speed up licences for them as they need to qualify to work here.”

 

Meanwhile, Duangrit Bunnag, the famous architect, said the NCPO order, which granted exemptions to Chinese architects and engineers to work on the project, was in violation of seven international agreements, including the Asean Mutual Recognition Arrangement on Architectural Services, Asean Framework Agreement on Services, General Agreement on Trade and Services, Nation Treatment, Most Favoured Nation and the Principle of Non-Discrimination under the WTO.

 

“Doing architectural work in Thailand is not only regulated by Thai law, but also many international regulations and it is also connected with many Asean agreements and WTO agreements,” Duangrit said.

 

“By using the sweeping powers under Article 44 of the interim charter to allow Chinese architects to work in Thailand without passing the formal procedures on Thai Architect Act, the architects from other countries can use this exemption as well on the Principle of Non-Discrimination and it will mean that everyone can work as architects in Thailand without having the official licence to do so.”

 

He warned that this will cause unfair competition between Thai architects, which still need to follow the formal regulations, but the foreigners can just walk in and take the architect job. Moreover, they do not have to be responsible for mistakes on their works, which could cost lives.

 

Faculty of Architecture Silpakorn University lecturer Chatri Phakitnonthakan also said that another concerning issue was the waiving of the regulations listed on the Article 3 of the order, which allow the project progression to skip many monitoring and control systems for the sake of fast progression.

 

“I am worried that this order will cut off the monitoring and control system to the project, which will not only open the door for corruption, but also we have no assurance that the project will be safe and properly built on standards,” Chatri said.

 

“These legal exemptions will not allow proper inspection of the quality of planning and construction work, even though Chinese architects might be good at their job.”

 

He suggested that Chinese architects should follow Thai rules, which allow foreign architects to work in Thailand on a partnership basis, as many foreign architects had worked on mega-infrastructure projects in Thailand before, such as Suvarnabhumi Airport, which was also designed by foreign architects.

 

Chatri also urged the Architects Council of Thailand and Association of Siamese Architects (ASA) to state their stance on the issue, with ASA executives already expressing serious concern.

 

Agricultural Land Reform Office (ALRO) secretary-general Sompong Inthong said there is also a plan to issue another NCPO order to allow the use of ALRO land for high speed train construction.

 

“We’re discussing whether to amend the law or issue the NCPO order by using the power of Article 44 to solve this problem, but it is quite definite that there will be new NCPO order to unlock this problem,” Sompong said.

 

“We understand that there will be many farmers who will be affect by the high speed train project, but they will be properly compensated for their loss of land.”

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30318291

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-06-17

[NCC1701A]

Bangkok to Korat? You will be able to visit your girlfriend's family in style.

 

And get to see where all the money is being spent.

 

If they start the second leg down to Pattaya, we can call this train the Bargirl special.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by NCC1701A

[clockman]

Look, anybody who is anybody. Is Sino Thai.!

[natway09]

They should be concerned .. The Boss is determined to spend all this money to ensure his relationship with China.

Have a look at SRT's progress over the last 40 years. Still no double track in lots of places.

That's where the money should be going & a decent freight train to Lam Chabang to get 2,000 bloody trucks off the road

[Lupatria]

Other exemptions are probably minor modifications in the safety sector during construction and operation.

[MadMac]

5 minutes ago, Lupatria said:

Other exemptions are probably minor modifications in the safety sector during construction and operation.

 

No problem with the security. They will forget one mile somewhere again, so nobody is going to use it :D

[Jonmarleesco]

Not a million years ago, the Thais thought the Chinese inferior (what's changed? They still think the same, and they still haven't realised that no one else sees the Thais in the same light they see themselves). But they're happy to spend billions of baht of taxpayers' money on Chinese submarines, Chinese armoured carriers, Chinese railway engineering and rolling stock, Chinese et al.

[YetAnother]

Here We Go Again

XYZ country does not understand us

we do it our own way (however bad that may be)

[chainarong]

Fiddling at the edges , the academic's are of course right , however the ever talented section 44 covers everything and seems to over rule common-sense  and public law, the first stage is a beauty,  3km , the old girl should cover that trip in minus 10 mins, bearing in mind that the cost in China to lay 1 km is around 20 million US dollars , that's if we are all on the same page and not confusing high speed with standard gage.................................................

[wavemanwww]

Sounds like Rush Rush Rush plus add Chinese means cost cutting = Death , Death Death  Enjoy the new rail under Article 44.

 

PS Red Bull heir found yet? LMAO

[MadMac]

Probably a Sudan solution, the Chinese gave them the high speed train but not the track, so it cruises with 60kmh through the desert 

[seajae]

this reminds me of the simpsons episode where they build the fast train and Homer is the driver, sounds very much like they are going to do the same thing here. Really have to wonder what the rush is, could it be someone wants the money paid out before a new govt steps in........

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

China does not understand the way Thailand manages large investment projects so it seems to have imposed its own practices here

I think it's more like:

"China understands the way Thailand manages large investment projects so China has imposed their own practices here."

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

resorting to Article 44 of the interim charter to grant many legal exemptions will seriously affect the checks and balance mechanism on public infrastructure projects

Use of absolute power by the NCPO is completely consistent with all previous Thai military coup-led governments. There is no check & balances on their governance and they have immunity for their actions. So why do these academics, architects and engineers act so surprised at the consequences? If they want a different result they need to politicize their concerns. But I'd guess they do know the consequences of that form of expression.

[just.a.thought]

The traditional public bidding method seems to be the one that creates the largest number of brown envelopes.....

 

[Dave67]

"Thai Chinese High Speed railway" The word carnage spring to mind

[Thechook]

Probably a smart idea to let the Chinese do it.  Thai engineers aren't the brightest.

[samsensam]

3 hours ago, Dave67 said:

"Thai Chinese High Speed railway" The word carnage spring to mind

 

have you visited China? have you travelled on the trains in China? China has an extensive, up to date railway network with a good safety record, and a lot of experience in railway design and construction.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

have you visited China? have you travelled on the trains in China? China has an extensive, up to date railway network with a good safety record, and a lot of experience in railway design and construction.

I agree. China only pirates the best known technology for high speed rail - the Japanese.

http://fortune.com/2013/04/15/did-china-steal-japans-high-speed-train/

 

[hotchilli]

Thailand will get into bed with any country willing to spend money on infrastructure or investment

China has long since been one of it's best allies.

[Dave67]

7 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

have you visited China? have you travelled on the trains in China? China has an extensive, up to date railway network with a good safety record, and a lot of experience in railway design and construction.

I worked on it buddy as a consultant for High speed rail for 2 years , thats how I know the quality is poor as well as the safety record. I worked Wuhan - Guanzhou 800k and X'ian -Zhengzhou 650k

Edited June 18, 2017 by Dave67

[Dave67]

8 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

have you visited China? have you travelled on the trains in China? China has an extensive, up to date railway network with a good safety record, and a lot of experience in railway design and construction.

They use German High speed design Rheeda2000, Zublin and Boogle plate also German croossings BWG and VAE. If not German Design then a hybrid of the German design

Edited June 18, 2017 by Dave67

[maewang99]

academics are "concerned" but hardly ever.... from my attestation of 15 years in the North where I have only ever seen 3 folks reading a book ... and only 1 non fiction.... 

on a ****choo choo train**** [or anywhere else].....

academics?

of what? choo choo trains?

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by maewang99

[Na Lee]

"We move forwards under artikel 44." Yeah sure because the brown envelopes are already handed out.

Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bluesofa]

What's the plan this week - is it still going to be standard gauge (1m43)?

 

I remember (last year, last month, last week..) some bright spark suggested building it as narrow gauge (1m0) as it would be cheaper. It was probably the same someone who had no idea it needs to be standard gauge to interconnect internationally.

Never knew if that was a serious suggestion. Probably have to wait until it's completed to find out for sure, but I doubt I'll ever live to be a hundred-and-fifty...

 

[halloween]

20 hours ago, natway09 said:

They should be concerned .. The Boss is determined to spend all this money to ensure his relationship with China.

Have a look at SRT's progress over the last 40 years. Still no double track in lots of places.

That's where the money should be going & a decent freight train to Lam Chabang to get 2,000 bloody trucks off the road

 

BANGKOK, 5 May 2017 (NNY) - The Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC) commitee is pushing for a study on the construction of a double track railway to connect three main ports in Thailand. 

Minister of Industry Uttama Savanayana said the committee had urged the State Railway of Thailand, the Port Authority of Thailand and the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand (I-EA-T) to develop a master plan of the double track railway project. The railway, which will connect Laem Chabang, Sattahip and Map Ta Phut ports, is expected to enhance the logistic system of the EEC. 

Try to keep up.

[halloween]

27 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

What's the plan this week - is it still going to be standard gauge (1m43)?

 

I remember (last year, last month, last week..) some bright spark suggested building it as narrow gauge (1m0) as it would be cheaper. It was probably the same someone who had no idea it needs to be standard gauge to interconnect internationally.

Never knew if that was a serious suggestion. Probably have to wait until it's completed to find out for sure, but I doubt I'll ever live to be a hundred-and-fifty...

 

Possibly that somebody has a better knowledge than you. Malaysia and most of Myanmar's system is metre gauge. However, as this will be a Chinese built railway designed to connect to the Chinese system, there is no doubt it will be standard gauge.

[bluesofa]

59 minutes ago, halloween said:

Possibly that somebody has a better knowledge than you. Malaysia and most of Myanmar's system is metre gauge. However, as this will be a Chinese built railway designed to connect to the Chinese system, there is no doubt it will be standard gauge.

You're quite right, I stand (well sit) corrected.

The aim of this dream, from what I understand,  is to get mainly goods freight from China to the port at Laem Chabang, or is it Maptaput?

 

Obviously for Laos that will also mean standard gauge from the Thai the to the Chinese borders, rather than the five-ish kilometres  of narrow gauge they have going nowhere at the moment.

 

I thought there was a longer term plan to be able to get down towards Singapore? Looking in Wiki I see there is only a small percentage of standard gauge in Malaysia at the moment, but I can't see where exactly that is.

Perhaps that idea was even higher altitude pie-in-the-sky than the Thai plan?

 

Thanks for your post on the subject.

 

[halloween]

14 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

You're quite right, I stand (well sit) corrected.

The aim of this dream, from what I understand,  is to get mainly goods freight from China to the port at Laem Chabang, or is it Maptaput?

 

Obviously for Laos that will also mean standard gauge from the Thai the to the Chinese borders, rather than the five-ish kilometres  of narrow gauge they have going nowhere at the moment.

 

I thought there was a longer term plan to be able to get down towards Singapore? Looking in Wiki I see there is only a small percentage of standard gauge in Malaysia at the moment, but I can't see where exactly that is.

Perhaps that idea was even higher altitude pie-in-the-sky than the Thai plan?

 

Thanks for your post on the subject.

 

Have ridden the Malaysian ETS, 140+ km/h on metre gauge. Much nicer/faster than anything in Thailand (damned with faint praise?? no, really very nice).

 

 

[YetAnother]

military dictatorships dont care much about what academics think; this place has been cowed and it has surrendered long ago

[Dave67]

59 minutes ago, halloween said:

Have ridden the Malaysian ETS, 140+ km/h on metre gauge. Much nicer/faster than anything in Thailand (damned with faint praise?? no, really very nice).

 

 

Worked on that upgrade as well 6 years . 250k From Ipoh to Pedang Basar