Interested in Offshore banking

[manchega]

My bank in home country suggested there is no need to inform home country where I work or if I am coming home.

 

on the same track I am trying to open a bank account in Singapore, but don't want to give any tax number.  I am not us so don't see why they need it, but they all seem to think I should be disclosing.

 

is there any way around this?

 

failing that how do I minimise taxes if I have to provide a thai tax number?

 

Thanks in advance, and no need to school me on financial ignorance, I know I'm ignorant, already, trying to become an educated ignorant

[topt]

I am guessing they have asked for it because they have signed up to CRS - Common Reporting Standard in 2018

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard

 

The question is are you supposed to be taxed by your home country on offshore assets if you live in Thailand? For example UK citizens who are non resident for tax in the UK would not be liable (currently) so would not be an issue to give a UK tax no.

 

Thailand has shown little interest in taxing offshore money (currently) so it should not be an issue to give a Thai TIN if you have one - but that is just my presumption based on the little info you have provided.

[manchega]

hmm, thanks,  I ahve been warned toi have nothing to do with uk in case they decide I am eligble for tax.  Also in case uk decide to follow us in chasing its citizens.

 

Thanks for the link.  Do you mean even with Thai TIN it is unlikely that I would be taxed by Thailand for investments in Singapore?

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Whats your tax rate in the UK vs Thailand choose the lowest and use that tax number. The days of earning mainstream investment income without paying tax is near to an end. As I understand it the new tax cooperation will mean that all countries will share information about nationals earning income in other countries. This sharing of information will not be based on tax numbers but on nationality/passport numbers. 

[topt]

2 hours ago, manchega said:

hmm, thanks, 

.

 

Thanks for the link.  Do you mean even with Thai TIN it is unlikely that I would be taxed by Thailand for investments in Singapore?

My understanding (and seemingly others who have posted in various threads) is that currently  Thai tax law does not tax offshore investments (whether Thai citizen or foreigner) as long as you do not bring into Thailand income earned in that same tax year. IE if you earn interest of 10k in July in an account outside Thailand and remit it to your account in Thailand in October of the same year then theoretically it may be taxable.

 

However unless you are regularly transferring large amounts, or claiming a large tax refund, it is very unlikely to be looked at. Easy to deal with if you can show the account with money on deposit from the previous tax year etc. (Thai tax year is Jan-Dec)

 

2 hours ago, manchega said:

I ahve been warned toi have nothing to do with uk in case they decide I am eligble for tax.  Also in case uk decide to follow us in chasing its citizens.

Forgive me but this sounds a little paranoid or you are evading tax? If not up to you but it can be beneficial depending on your exact circumstances.

When I left the UK I investigated the situation with HMRC and then became officially non resident for tax purposes. I still pay tax on my property rental and some investments but I do not pay on the majority of my income which is based offshore. One poster has mentioned also that he does not claim his personal allowance and as such I think all his income stream from the UK is non taxable - you would need to look through some of the threads to find this.

 

Of course this could change in the future but as a fyi Thailand is not due to sign up to actual implementation of CRS until 2022

 

[topt]

1 minute ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

Whats your tax rate in the UK vs Thailand choose the lowest and use that tax number. The days of earning mainstream investment income without paying tax is near to an end. As I understand it the new tax cooperation will mean that all countries will share information about nationals earning income in other countries. This sharing of information will not be based on tax numbers but on nationality/passport numbers. 

My point is that just because information is shared does not necessarily mean you will be taxed. See examples above.

Too many variables to be definitive.

[ThailandLOS]

6 hours ago, manchega said:

failing that how do I minimise taxes if I have to provide a thai tax number?

You don't have to provide a Thai tax number - the tax number can be connected with e.g. an offshore company, which then becomes the account holder wherever you decide to open the bank account. This account will be totally anonymous.

 

There are companies providing services for setting up this kind of thing - and you don't even need to show up anywhere in person. All can be handled by webcam.

Edited June 17, 2017 by ThailandLOS

[KittenKong]

15 hours ago, topt said:

One poster has mentioned also that he does not claim his personal allowance and as such I think all his income stream from the UK is non taxable

 

The actual concession is that a non-resident's liability to tax on UK dividend and interest income is limited to that deducted at source if that is his only UK income. Anyone who also has other UK income (pensions, rentals) would need to calculate whether he is better off losing the personal allowance or losing that concession.

 

Given that all bank interest is now paid gross in the UK this largely removes the need for offshore banking as far as I'm concerned. If ever I get to state pension age in one piece then I may need to think again depending on where I am living at that time.

[Naam]

12 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

You don't have to provide a Thai tax number - the tax number can be connected with e.g. an offshore company, which then becomes the account holder wherever you decide to open the bank account. This account will be totally anonymous.

 

There are companies providing services for setting up this kind of thing - and you don't even need to show up anywhere in person. All can be handled by webcam.

this was possible 20 years ago but now it's nothing but a wet dream. no account whether personal or corporate without beneficiary except if the company is publicly quoted and traded.

 

totally anonymous accounts exist only in Hollywood movies. period!

[ThailandLOS]

52 minutes ago, Naam said:

this was possible 20 years ago but now it's nothing but a wet dream. no account whether personal or corporate without beneficiary except if the company is publicly quoted and traded.

 

totally anonymous accounts exist only in Hollywood movies. period!

Well, I did set one up two months ago - so you are flat out wrong.

 

I can explain it in detail to you, but I can not comprehend it for you.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by ThailandLOS

[AJBangkok]

Depending on the bank You don't need an actual tax number you just sign a form that says Thailand is your country of residence for tax purposes but you are not working/retired and you don't have a tax number.  

[Naam]

2 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

Well, I did set one up two months ago - so you are flat out wrong.

I can explain it in detail to you, but I can not comprehend it for you.

 

you may have upset a bargirl by refusing to pay for a lady drink but not a totally anonymous corporate bank account. you Sir, are a braggart who has no idea! 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, AJBangkok said:

Depending on the bank You don't need an actual tax number you just sign a form that says Thailand is your country of residence for tax purposes but you are not working/retired and you don't have a tax number.  

just signing a form won't do. banks require definite proof of residence of the beneficiary, usually a utility bill (electricity, water or phone landline). mobile phone and bills for internet are not acceptable. Hong Kong, Macau, Labuan and Singapore banks even reject the residence certificate issued by the Thai immigration. in Europe most banks are asking for the TIN (Tax Identification Number).

[ThailandLOS]

24 minutes ago, Naam said:

you may have upset a bargirl by refusing to pay for a lady drink but not a totally anonymous corporate bank account. you Sir, are a braggart who has no idea! 

Well, you don't know me (and I would never associate with anyone with your attitude) - so don't know why you even bother carrying on with your self promoting fantasies.

 

Maybe you're just the bully kind of type with too much time on your hands and use it to pick fights. Whatever the case might be, I'm done with you. Good luck with your recovery.

[3421abc]

5 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

Well, you don't know me (and I would never associate with anyone with your attitude) - so don't know why you even bother carrying on with your self promoting fantasies.

 

Maybe you're just the bully kind of type with too much time on your hands and use it to pick fights. Whatever the case might be, I'm done with you. Good luck with your recovery.

Hello ThailandLOS, I sent you a message in regards to the offshore account in Singapore. I would appreciate if you can share some insight into how I could open in Singapore. With the new AML and KYC regulations it is becoming much more difficult.

[ThailandLOS]

Sure thing - PM sent

[theguyfromanotherforum]

23 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

Well, I did set one up two months ago - so you are flat out wrong.

 

I can explain it in detail to you, but I can not comprehend it for you.

 

 

 

Where? In Singapore?

 

Don't make me laugh.

[bangkokairportlink]

I have no tax number anywhere in this world. How can I open a bank account in HK or Singapore ?

 

 

[bangkokairportlink]

10 hours ago, Naam said:

just signing a form won't do. banks require definite proof of residence of the beneficiary, usually a utility bill (electricity, water or phone landline). mobile phone and bills for internet are not acceptable. Hong Kong, Macau, Labuan and Singapore banks even reject the residence certificate issued by the Thai immigration. in Europe most banks are asking for the TIN (Tax Identification Number).

 

In Europe you do not need a tax number if you are from another EU country...

 

 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, bangkokairportlink said:

In Europe you do not need a tax number if you are from another EU country...

you don't need a tax number because every bank in the EU will deduct 30% witholding tax from any income and capital gains if you are an EU resident. if you want to be taxed by your home country's applicable tax scale a TIN is mandatory and residents of low income tax EU countries such as Romania, Bulgaria, Malta, Cyprus, etc. will happily submit one enabling the bank to inform your taxman about each and every financial transaction.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, bangkokairportlink said:

I have no tax number anywhere in this world. How can I open a bank account in HK or Singapore ?

it's late, detailed answer tomorrow.

[AJBangkok]

20 hours ago, Naam said:

just signing a form won't do. banks require definite proof of residence of the beneficiary, usually a utility bill (electricity, water or phone landline). mobile phone and bills for internet are not acceptable. Hong Kong, Macau, Labuan and Singapore banks even reject the residence certificate issued by the Thai immigration. in Europe most banks are asking for the TIN (Tax Identification Number).

I should have been more specific. There is an actual form that they have in Singapore which most banks sent out to existing offshore customers last August/September that asks for Tax ID and an a number of other things. When opening an account you do have to provide other KYC documents including proof of address where they accept a utilities bill or in my case my credit card statement from a local Thai bank. For some corporate accounts where I am a benificial owner they ask for proof of address every 3 months.

[Naam]

17 minutes ago, AJBangkok said:

When opening an account you do have to provide other KYC documents including proof of address where they accept a utilities bill or in my case my credit card statement from a local Thai bank.

regulations what is acceptable as proof of residence differ considerably between banks. those with the most rigorous demands are the multinationals with sometimes ridiculous demands. a friend of mine who is banking in Singapore like me for many years switched banks last year and was asked to provide a notarised copy of a utility bill or a notarised copy of the wellknown residence certificate issued by Thai immigration

Quote

For some corporate accounts where I am a benificial owner they ask for proof of address every 3 months.

the service provider of our BVI corporations is asking us for an update once a year but not the banks with whom we conduct business. 

[Naam]

20 hours ago, bangkokairportlink said:

I have no tax number anywhere in this world. How can I open a bank account in HK or Singapore ?

"how to open" requires answers to these questions:

 

purpose?

-to use it as a personal bread-and-butter current account making a fistful of transfers monthly?

-to invest in tradeable currencies?

-to buy/sell investment grade securities?

-to buy/sell unrestricted any securities traded at exchanges and over the counter?

-corporate account doing inet business?

-corporate account for general investment purposes?

-corporate account for estate planning executing at a later stage distribution or allocation of assets?

-initial value of deposit (both cash and securities)?

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by Naam

[bangkokairportlink]

5 hours ago, Naam said:

"how to open" requires answers to these questions:

 

purpose?

-to use it as a personal bread-and-butter current account making a fistful of transfers monthly?

-to invest in tradeable currencies?

-to buy/sell investment grade securities?

-to buy/sell unrestricted any securities traded at exchanges and over the counter?

-corporate account doing inet business?

-corporate account for general investment purposes?

-corporate account for estate planning executing at a later stage distribution or allocation of assets?

-initial value of deposit (both cash and securities)?

 

 

Hello,

 

Account to keep some money that I don't need outside of Thailand and outside of Europe.

 

I want to put this money somewhere and forget it until I need it. Maybe in 10 year,s Maybe never :-)

 

What should I do ?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Naam]

7 hours ago, bangkokairportlink said:

some money

= insufficient data.

[manchega]

On 17/06/2017 at 4:50 PM, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

Whats your tax rate in the UK vs Thailand choose the lowest and use that tax number. The days of earning mainstream investment income without paying tax is near to an end. As I understand it the new tax cooperation will mean that all countries will share information about nationals earning income in other countries. This sharing of information will not be based on tax numbers but on nationality/passport numbers. 

that's a shame, I thought it was just the us targetting its citizens.  Seems the us government do one thing and evryone else thinks its a good idea.  shame since uk made its money in offshore banking business

[manchega]

Naam is correct, every bank I have spoken to want that tax number.  The ones that won't speak to me request that I have more than 250 million us to invest.  They did not speak to me directly either.  I think they have a good dd process in place to vet who and what they will speak to

[bangkokairportlink]

5 hours ago, Naam said:

= insufficient data.

 

Let's start with 100000 USD cash that I want to put somewhere to keep safe. Please.

[Naam]

26 minutes ago, bangkokairportlink said:

Let's start with 100000 USD cash that I want to put somewhere to keep safe. Please.

https://www.ipb.citibank.com.sg/english/forms/english/general/form.htm?&ecid=PSGODIPDBAENSC4&media=94d5d4c8-f652-1497936422&gclid=CjwKEAjw7J3KBRCxv93Q3KSukXQSJADzFzVS7SCnor_dW9zLm8AirtuIyyB32HVDhti3fm0UqCjStBoCo_jw_wcB

 

https://www.dbs.com.sg/index/default.page