China to hit polluters harder in new soil protection law

[webfact]

China to hit polluters harder in new soil protection law

A man points to water and soil which turned red after being contaminated by industrial waste from a closed dye factory, amid heavy rainfall at a mountain in Ruyang county, Henan province September 15, 2014. REUTERS/Stringer/Files

 

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China will fine polluters as much as 2 million yuan ($293,000) for dumping untreated contaminants into the soil, according to a new draft law submitted to the country's parliament, the official China Daily reported on Friday.

 

After years of overmining, unregulated industrial discharges and excess use of pesticide and fertiliser, China has promised to take action to tackle polluted soil, although the environment ministry has warned that clean-up efforts will be slow and costly.

 

As well as spelling out punishments for offenders, the new law will make state funds available to support clean-up projects and establish a nationwide monitoring network, China Daily said.

 

The environment ministry said on Wednesday that China allocated a budget of 14.6 billion yuan ($2.1 billion) to cover soil remediation projects over the past year, but with 3.33 million hectares (8.2 million acres) of contaminated farmland already identified, the total bill could reach as much as 1 trillion yuan.

 

The draft law also allows authorities to establish "priority protection" areas and ban grazing or the growing of certain crops in heavily polluted regions, as well as encourage crop rotation, reforestation and the creation of wetlands, according to the official People's Daily.

 

It will also enable authorities to ban construction projects around schools, hospitals or residential areas in order to mitigate potential pollution risks, the People's Daily said.

 

The standing committee of China's parliament, the National People's Congress, is currently in session and will also deliberate on amendments to water pollution legislation aimed at cracking down on those caught tampering with monitoring data.

 

(Reporting by David Stanway; Editing by Richard Pullin)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-06-23

[Grubster]

Yeah right, they will clean things up when pigs fly.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

Yeah right, they will clean things up when pigs fly.

I've seen the same attitude displayed about the Chinese lowering their CO2 output. Turns out that they're way ahead of schedule on CO2 reduction. And the issue of the soil is even more pressing. They share the air with the rest of the planet. So their pollution gets diluted. But the soil is 100 percent their own problem.

[Grubster]

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I've seen the same attitude displayed about the Chinese lowering their CO2 output. Turns out that they're way ahead of schedule on CO2 reduction. And the issue of the soil is even more pressing. They share the air with the rest of the planet. So their pollution gets diluted. But the soil is 100 percent their own problem.

I don't believe they have lowered CO2 at all, they may have slowed the increase of CO2. I just have a case of the ass for China as they have stolen the jobs from so many westerners, with the help of western politicians and corporations.

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I don't believe they have lowered CO2 at all, they may have slowed the increase of CO2. I just have a case of the ass for China as they have stolen the jobs from so many westerners, with the help of western politicians and corporations.

Well, whatever the truth about stolen jobs, it has nothing to do with the issues at hand.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillbaker/2016/07/20/good-news-from-china-coal-has-peaked-and-emissions-will-begin-falling-after-2020-2022/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillbaker/2016/07/20/good-news-from-china-coal-has-peaked-and-emissions-will-begin-falling-after-2020-2022/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

http://www.wri.org/blog/2017/03/china-making-progress-climate-goals-faster-expected

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china.html

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well, whatever the truth about stolen jobs, it has nothing to do with the issues at hand.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillbaker/2016/07/20/good-news-from-china-coal-has-peaked-and-emissions-will-begin-falling-after-2020-2022/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillbaker/2016/07/20/good-news-from-china-coal-has-peaked-and-emissions-will-begin-falling-after-2020-2022/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

http://www.wri.org/blog/2017/03/china-making-progress-climate-goals-faster-expected

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china.html

Yes China's coal use has peaked and is going down, this has little to do with any change in policy. Just a convenient fact.

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, Grubster said:

this has little to do with any change in policy

It does seem to reflect a change in policy.

China Cancels Over 100 Coal-Fired Power Plants, Reuters reports:

"Putting the power projects on hold is a major step towards the government's effort to produce power from renewable sources such as solar and wind, and wean the country off coal, which accounts for the majority of the nation's power supply. To put it in perspective, some 130 GW of additional solar and wind power will be installed by 2020...."This shows the government is keeping its promise in curbing supplies of coal power,"

https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/01/19/0120218/china-cancels-over-100-coal-fired-power-plants

[Grubster]

22 hours ago, Srikcir said:

It does seem to reflect a change in policy.

China Cancels Over 100 Coal-Fired Power Plants, Reuters reports:

"Putting the power projects on hold is a major step towards the government's effort to produce power from renewable sources such as solar and wind, and wean the country off coal, which accounts for the majority of the nation's power supply. To put it in perspective, some 130 GW of additional solar and wind power will be installed by 2020...."This shows the government is keeping its promise in curbing supplies of coal power,"

https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/01/19/0120218/china-cancels-over-100-coal-fired-power-plants

Maybe in your world, in mine they are taking advantage of very cheap LNG to run their power plants while they are stock pilling millions of cubic meters of coal on the coast of china. Do you know what is going on in this world or are you just listening to some news outlet?

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Maybe in your world, in mine they are taking advantage of very cheap LNG to run their power plants while they are stock pilling millions of cubic meters of coal on the coast of china. Do you know what is going on in this world or are you just listening to some news outlet?

Why would they be stockpiling millions of tons of coal that they have no current need for? Why spend all that money to buy the stuff and then spend more to store it? It makes no sense.

And where's your evidence that China is using cheap LNG? Actually, natural gas is very expensive in China.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2016-10-23/china-s-clean-energy-push-chokes-on-high-gas-prices

Edited June 24, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Why would they be stockpiling millions of tons of coal that they have no current need for? Why spend all that money to buy the stuff and then spend more to store it? It makes no sense.

I have no clue why they are doing it but I think maybe you should give it some thought before you go blabbing that they are going to cut back on emissions, I won't give you the websites to check but I can tell you that many people I now work in the coal industry and most of the coal is going to China and being dumped offshore to be used at a later date. You tell me why they are doing this? It costs nothing to store and they do have a need for it and always will, unless of course you believe they are going to switch to clean energy.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I have no clue why they are doing it but I think maybe you should give it some thought before you go blabbing that they are going to cut back on emissions, I won't give you the websites to check but I can tell you that many people I now work in the coal industry and most of the coal is going to China and being dumped offshore to be used at a later date. You tell me why they are doing this? It costs nothing to store and they do have a need for it and always will, unless of course you believe they are going to switch to clean energy.

And I need food for my house. That doesn't mean I buy 1000 cans of tuna at a go.  It's a massive tie-up of cash flow. Why would any company buy so much coal that they won't be using for years?

 In addition, China derives somewhere between 5 and 10 percent of its electricity from natural gas. In 2012 it was 5 percent; by 2020 it's expected to be 10 percent.

69 percent comes from coal.

Your figures don't add up.

[Grubster]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And I need food for my house. That doesn't mean I buy 1000 cans of tuna at a go.  It's a massive tie-up of cash flow. Why would any company buy so much coal that they won't be using for years?

 In addition, China derives somewhere between 5 and 10 percent of its electricity from natural gas. In 2012 it was 5 percent; by 2020 it's expected to be 10 percent.

69 percent comes from coal.

Your figures don't add up.

What the hell are you talking about, why don't you just google China stock pilling coal in the sea off their coast. Where do you think all the coal from Australia is going? China has actually bought and paid for the biggest coal and natural gas deposits in the world. They are actively buying more as we speak, do you think they are doing this to clean the air?

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, Grubster said:

What the hell are you talking about, why don't you just google China stock pilling coal in the sea off their coast. Where do you think all the coal from Australia is going? China has actually bought and paid for the biggest coal and natural gas deposits in the world. They are actively buying more as we speak, do you think they are doing this to clean the air?

Where do i think the coal is going? The latest figure I can find is that  69 percent of the electricity in the world's 2nd largest economy is being generated by burning coal. That's where I think their coal is going.

But if they are buying up huge amounts of coal, that's probably because the government is in bed with Chinese coal mining companies and is trying to keep them afloat. It's a symptom of corruption of the Chinese government but not of the future of electricity generation in China.

Edited June 24, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Where do i think the coal is going? The latest figure I can find is that  69 percent of the electricity in the world's 2nd largest economy is being generated by burning coal. That's where I think their coal is going.

And you don't know anything about how much they are stock pilling? How can you say they are doing so good to clean up the environment?

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

And you don't know anything about how much they are stock pilling? How can you say they are doing so good to clean up the environment?

Evidence. If they are stockpiling coal, that doesn't mean they're burning it. We know that China is dramatically increasing its generation of electricity by wind and solar. And they are also increasing their use of natural gas. They have also cancelled the construction of well over 100 coal fired power plants.

[Grubster]

15 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Evidence. If they are stockpiling coal, that doesn't mean they're burning it. We know that China is dramatically increasing its generation of electricity by wind and solar. And they are also increasing their use of natural gas. They have also cancelled the construction of well over 100 coal fired power plants.

Yes and they are stock pilling coal to stop the polluting countries from getting their hands on it, OK , I get it now.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Yes and they are stock pilling coal to stop the polluting countries from getting their hands on it, OK , I get it now.

No, you clearly don't get what I clearly said. If they are stockpiling coal, it's because of the massive corruption in China. The government is probably bailing out producers who overinvested in production  much as it has bailed out developers of what are now called "ghost cities"

[Grubster]

14 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

No, you clearly don't get what I clearly said. If they are stockpiling coal, it's because of the massive corruption in China. The government is probably bailing out producers who overinvested in production  much as it has bailed out developers of what are now called "ghost cities"

No, the coal is being bought by China not an investor, China has bought most all of Australia's coal, and are actively mining it and storing it in the sea off china, very easy to to use later. Now why would they be spending a Trillion dollars or so to do that. China is the biggest polluter in the world and if you want to stick up for them and the capitalist pigs that sent them all the jobs from the west then so be it, good bye.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Grubster said:

No, the coal is being bought by China not an investor, China has bought most all of Australia's coal, and are actively mining it and storing it in the sea off china, very easy to to use later. Now why would they be spending a Trillion dollars or so to do that. China is the biggest polluter in the world and if you want to stick up for them and the capitalist pigs that sent them all the jobs from the west then so be it, good bye.

Did I say an investor was buying it? I thought I had made it absolutely clear that it would be the government doing the buying: "The government is probably bailing out producers who overinvested in production  much as it has bailed out developers of what are now called "ghost cities"

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Did I say an investor was buying it? I thought I had made it absolutely clear that it would be the government doing the buying: "The government is probably bailing out producers who overinvested in production  much as it has bailed out developers of what are now called "ghost cities"

The Chinese government is buying the coal and has always been buying the coal and they are not bailing anybody out. Their polution levels will only drop if their economy falters or if other methods of power become cheaper, period.

[Scott]

As interesting as the coal debate may be, this topic is about soil protection.   Perhaps we could stay a little closer to the topic?

[ilostmypassword]

11 hours ago, Scott said:

As interesting as the coal debate may be, this topic is about soil protection.   Perhaps we could stay a little closer to the topic?

Well, coal comes from the ground so that kind of makes it soil. And some of us feel so protective of it, that we want to keep it buried.