Patong - The Wake

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Sorry to have to disillusion you M, but you are wrong on every count of your post – – that is apart from our "agreement to disagree" which I had forgotten about.

 

I have no vendetta to bring the market down but I have every interest in stating things as I see them and as scores of friends see them and of course many posters here, and IMO this is not a good place to invest and sell property, period.

 

I am bitter about absolutely nothing and am one of the happiest people you will ever likely meet,  and for the record I have lost absolutely nothing on property here, however years ago I was lucky enough to make some money on it, so I do know a little about the property market especially as I have good friends working in it as well.

 

My moral compass does not allow me to profit from other people's misfortune, or to persuade people to invest in property here so that I can do so, but then again maybe that's just me, however I'm happy with that aspect of my life.

 

And as for your comment about taking a more balanced view leading me to a "happier and more successful life", well thank you for the laugh because I have lived a very happy and extremely successful life and hopefully will continue to do so. And none more so than when I achieved huge success when I was able to build an investment fund of $2 billion for an institution, starting from scratch, but then that's another story.

 

My glass is always half full, mainly because I spend something around 300,000 baht per annum on wine alone, so in fact it's hardly ever empty! Thinking about it I could spend three times that amount per annum on wine and still have enough to live on here for the next 30 or 40 years, so I've every reason to be happy and really do not need cheering up.

 

I have experienced working and living in different countries, in different environments, in different industries and achieved major accolades and rewards in every single one of them so a happier and more successful life I don't think I could have lived

 

No need to reply with comments about how I might pass on leads to you to help out my friends, because hopefully the "agreement to disagree" can be reinstated.

 

 

 

Lol!! Your rants are always epic.

 

We are still not seeing the balanced perspective from you, which would be required for true enlightenment/happiness. Oh well,  we must accept that some people are stubbornly set in their ways.

 

It is great that you(and some

of your expat mates) chose to rent in Thailand. You obviously love Thailand and like the places you are renting. Can we assume that those places you (and your mates) rent are not “falling down” and are actually quite comfortable to live in? Your landlord is certainly happy collecting a monthly check from a reliable tenant such as youself.

 

Thanks for sharing more details about your life. However with that, you have painted youself into a bit of a  “moral compass” corner. 

 

You claim to have been an “investment fund manager”. You your main duty would have been to accumulate/buy assets at the lowest price possible and then sell them when you felt they were at/near fully valued, or sell if there was a better alternative to buy. For you to imply that those who do the same are not at the same level of  “moral compass” decency

is the height of moral hypocrisy.

 

BTW, there are thousands of foreigners and TV users who happily buy/sell/own property in Thailand. I hope you would find it within your “moral compass” to respect them and not always try to talk down the market with completely unbalanced negative pronouncements ad nauseam.

 

cheers :)

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mysterion

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[NamKangMan]

8 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

I already mentioned that thais must own at least 51% of thr units. What more do you want to know?

 

I don't need to know any more than what I already know, and that is, foreign ownership, even collectively, owns a 49% share of the land their condo sits on, thus, out voted for the direction of the property, which is akin to having NO rights at all.

 

I have NO problem with people who decide that this is ok for them, but stop misleading readers saying they have full ownership, when, in fact, they don't. 

 

You often see the term "freehold" in advertisements in Thailand.  There is no "freehold" in Thailand, for foreigners, as the definition of freehold is known in the west. 

 

You know this.  Stop misleading readers. 

[Old Croc]

For those who think all Chinese are represented by the Patong tourists, here's the other end of the scale:

http://www.watoday.com.au/good-weekend/this-is-different-richits-crazy-the-chinese-riding-the-spending-boom-20171222-h09g75.html

 

It would be nice if some of this class could be wooed to spend their money in Phuket. Housing prices would skyrocket and shops would have to sell genuine Gucci, etc. 

 

[xylophone]

16 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Lol!! Your rants are always epic.

 

We are still not seeing the balanced perspective from you, which would be required for true enlightenment/happiness. Oh well,  we must accept that some people are stubbornly set in their ways.

 

It is great that you(and some

of your expat mates) chose to rent in Thailand. You obviously love Thailand and like the places you are renting. Can we assume that those places you (and your mates) rent are not “falling down” and are actually quite comfortable to live in? Your landlord is certainly happy collecting a monthly check from a reliable tenant such as youself.

 

Thanks for sharing more details about your life. However with that, you have painted youself into a bit of a  “moral compass” corner. 

 

You claim to have been an “investment fund manager”. You your main duty would have been to accumulate/buy assets at the lowest price possible and then sell them when you felt they were at/near fully valued, or sell if there was a better alternative to buy. For you to imply that those who do the same are not at the same level of  “moral compass” decency

is the height of moral hypocrisy.

 

BTW, there are thousands of foreigners and TV users who happily buy/sell/own property in Thailand. I hope you would find it within your “moral compass” to respect them and not always try to talk down the market with completely unbalanced negative pronouncements ad nauseam.

 

cheers :)

 

 

 

 

Such a shame that you don't fully understand things that are written, however you probably have all the best "qualities" to be in the profession you are in (see the many comments about real estate agents here in Thailand and how they are perceived).

 

And for you to imply that somebody has not found "enlightenment/happiness" when you actually know nothing about them is laughable, no it's bordering on stupidity really, but then.............

 

As for renting, well there is one key element which you fail to see about that, however as you do fail to see it, I won't point it out to you, but with your "state of enlightenment/happiness" it should be obvious.

 

In addition you have a problem understanding things and how they work, because I never said I was "an investment fund manager" (look again). And you obviously don't know how index funds work (because you made another incorrect assumption) otherwise you wouldn't have printed the rubbish you printed about buying and selling (no moral compass involved in that, but then you probably don't understand that aspect of business either) – – so there you go spouting off again when you know nothing about that which you are commenting on, both on the subject and the person, but it's probably in your nature and you can't help it. 

 

Another assumptive comment (yes you do make a lot of assumptions and so far your record is been pretty close to zilch) from you with regards to my supposedly disrespecting people who own property here, because I don't and I have never said I do. My main point in case you have missed it (again) is that the market here IMO is not a good place in which to invest, and I quoted many true examples.

 

Finally........keep on doing the job that you are doing (with all the positive comments it brings!) and in the field in which suits you best and try not to understand or make assumptions about other people or other businesses, because it seems beyond your capabilities, and I'm sure you will be a very happy chappie .

[Toknarok]

39 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

For those who think all Chinese are represented by the Patong tourists, here's the other end of the scale:

http://www.watoday.com.au/good-weekend/this-is-different-richits-crazy-the-chinese-riding-the-spending-boom-20171222-h09g75.html

 

It would be nice if some of this class could be wooed to spend their money in Phuket. Housing prices would skyrocket and shops would have to sell genuine Gucci, etc. 

 

         Indeed yes Oldcroc. The more monied Chinese choose Aussie over Thailand every time. Only New Zealanders number more than the Chinese and that is expected to change.

        Not for them the 'package' 'zero dollar' trips with flag waving tour guides, crowded diesel spewing buses touring filthy beaches etc. They require first class infrastructure and service.

        Sorry this is somewhat off topic about Patong, but I think it reflects what is going on. No shortage of purchasers of FREEHOLD property in Oz (apart from newly completed homes).

                https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/more-

              

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

For those who think all Chinese are represented by the Patong tourists, here's the other end of the scale:

http://www.watoday.com.au/good-weekend/this-is-different-richits-crazy-the-chinese-riding-the-spending-boom-20171222-h09g75.html

 

It would be nice if some of this class could be wooed to spend their money in Phuket. Housing prices would skyrocket and shops would have to sell genuine Gucci, etc. 

 

 

Up on my road in Kata we see plenty of upmarket independent Chinese visitors. The private apartments on day rate are not cheap. Many opt for car hire, the rest all have hired m/bike. The property management company can't get enough apartments.  

 

Sorry - I know this is a Patong topic, But I know it's much the  same in Patong.   

[xylophone]

9 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Up on my road in Kata we see plenty of upmarket independent Chinese visitors. The private apartments on day rate are not cheap. Many opt for car hire, the rest all have hired m/bike. The property management company can't get enough apartments.  

 

Sorry - I know this is a Patong topic, But I know it's much the  same in Patong.   

Yep, have seen the same in the Diamond Cliff Hotel in Patong........upmarket Chinese who seem a world apart from those on lo-so tours, not only in looks/dress sense, but in manners also.

[cloudhopper]

Well I hope they get on with the wake soon because the smell out in the bay is really awful when the breeze is off the shore.

[Mysterion]

17 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I don't need to know any more than what I already know, and that is, foreign ownership, even collectively, owns a 49% share of the land their condo sits on, thus, out voted for the direction of the property, which is akin to having NO rights at all.

 

I have NO problem with people who decide that this is ok for them, but stop misleading readers saying they have full ownership, when, in fact, they don't. 

 

You often see the term "freehold" in advertisements in Thailand.  There is no "freehold" in Thailand, for foreigners, as the definition of freehold is known in the west. 

 

You know this.  Stop misleading readers. 

Lol,  you are obviously a very confused person, to put it mildly.

 

We don't have time to hold your hand to teach you everything in detail. For that, you need to find/hire someone else.

 

However, somebody needs to debunk the misinformation you are spreading on the forum, as there may be some new people on here who actually fall for your falsehoods.

 

As such, for the benefit of others, i will debunk your nonsensical claims.

 

Other than the legally required minimum 51% Thai ownership of the units in the thai foreign freehold condo, the condo structure is essentially the same as “the definition of freehold is known in the west.”

 

“Same as the west”- each unit holder gets a vote for their unit

 

“Same as the west” -Each unit holder owns their unit and proportionate amount of the underlying land.

 

“Same as the west”- If the building was demolished and the land sold, each unit holder would be entitled to a proportionate share of the proceeds.

 

“Same as the west”- If you knew anything about global real estate, then your would also know that the vast majority of freehold condominiums are naturally majority owned and controlled by local citizens in other countries as well. It may not be written into law in the other countries, but local citizens tend to be the majority owners in condo buildings around the world anyway.

 

Now, unless you are suggesting that Thai people are somehow less worthy co-owners than foreigners(and that would highly offensive if you were), you will understand and appreciate that buying foreign freehold condos in thailand is essentially the same “as the definition of freehold is known in the west.”

 

Hope that helps the other members.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Mysterion

[Mysterion]

4 hours ago, Toknarok said:

         Indeed yes Oldcroc. The more monied Chinese choose Aussie over Thailand every time. Only New Zealanders number more than the Chinese and that is expected to change.

        Not for them the 'package' 'zero dollar' trips with flag waving tour guides, crowded diesel spewing buses touring filthy beaches etc. They require first class infrastructure and service.

        Sorry this is somewhat off topic about Patong, but I think it reflects what is going on. No shortage of purchasers of FREEHOLD property in Oz (apart from newly completed homes).

                https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/more-

              

An agent for several off-plan projects in phuket recently told me that their foreign freehold buyers are approx  50% Chinese mainlanders, 25% Russian, and mixed bag for the rest.

[Peterw42]

18 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I don't need to know any more than what I already know, and that is, foreign ownership, even collectively, owns a 49% share of the land their condo sits on, thus, out voted for the direction of the property, which is akin to having NO rights at all.

 

I have NO problem with people who decide that this is ok for them, but stop misleading readers saying they have full ownership, when, in fact, they don't. 

 

You often see the term "freehold" in advertisements in Thailand.  There is no "freehold" in Thailand, for foreigners, as the definition of freehold is known in the west. 

 

You know this.  Stop misleading readers. 

How 49% or 51% or 87% of the owners ,may or may not vote on something has nothing to do with freehold title, all owners have one vote, thats it. The nationality, hair color or choice of shoes of the owners is not relevant and does not diminish freehold title.

There are blocks in Australia that are very popular with Chinese, they own maybe 80% of the block, its still freehold title. You still get one vote per condo.

 

You do realise that in most ex-pat areas foreigners buy up the 49% allocation then buy a piece of the 51% allocation through company ownership. In Phuket some blocks end up with 90% foreign ownership.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Peterw42

[Mysterion]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Such a shame that you don't fully understand things that are written, however you probably have all the best "qualities" to be in the profession you are in (see the many comments about real estate agents here in Thailand and how they are perceived).

 

And for you to imply that somebody has not found "enlightenment/happiness" when you actually know nothing about them is laughable, no it's bordering on stupidity really, but then.............

 

As for renting, well there is one key element which you fail to see about that, however as you do fail to see it, I won't point it out to you, but with your "state of enlightenment/happiness" it should be obvious.

 

In addition you have a problem understanding things and how they work, because I never said I was "an investment fund manager" (look again). And you obviously don't know how index funds work (because you made another incorrect assumption) otherwise you wouldn't have printed the rubbish you printed about buying and selling (no moral compass involved in that, but then you probably don't understand that aspect of business either) – – so there you go spouting off again when you know nothing about that which you are commenting on, both on the subject and the person, but it's probably in your nature and you can't help it. 

 

Another assumptive comment (yes you do make a lot of assumptions and so far your record is been pretty close to zilch) from you with regards to my supposedly disrespecting people who own property here, because I don't and I have never said I do. My main point in case you have missed it (again) is that the market here IMO is not a good place in which to invest, and I quoted many true examples.

 

Finally........keep on doing the job that you are doing (with all the positive comments it brings!) and in the field in which suits you best and try not to understand or make assumptions about other people or other businesses, because it seems beyond your capabilities, and I'm sure you will be a very happy chappie .

Xylo,

 

Your lengthy rambling and somewhat incoherent response, and attempts to deflect, are now very predictable to all of us, and dont satisfactorily address your toxic diatribe and hypocrisy regarding business and thailand real estate.

 

You are still firmly in that “moral compass” corner that you yourself painted, and you may be oblivious to it, but you remain offensive to all the people(thais and non thais) who happily buy/sell/own property in Thailand. 

 

We are pleased that you have chosen to reside as a tenant in Thailand. You are adding money to the local economy and supporting the local real estate industry, and thats good for all of us here.

 

However, if you(and a few of your expat mates) are truly happy, we wouldnt know it, as your posts are constantly and overwhelminly full of negativity.

 

As an FYI, i am a global investor in many asset classes. I am not a real estate agent, as you ridiculously try to imply.

 

Good day :))

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

5 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Your lengthy rambling and somewhat incoherent response, and attempts to deflect, are now very predictable to all of us, and dont satisfactorily address your toxic diatribe and hypocrisy regarding business and thailand real estate.

 

You are still firmly in that “moral compass” corner that you yourself painted, and you may be oblivious to it, but you remain offensive to all the people(thais and non thais) who happily buy/sell/own property in Thailand. 

 

We are pleased that you have chosen to reside as a tenant in Thailand. You are adding money to the local economy and supporting the local real estate industry, and thats good for all of us here.

 

However, if you(and a few of your expat mates) are truly happy, we wouldnt know it, as your posts are constantly and overwhelminly full of negativity.

 

As an FYI, i am a global investor in many asset classes. I am not a real estate agent, as you ridiculously try to imply.

This post says more about you than it does me, you poor soul (or are you the "we" that you refer to?).

 

If anything is incoherent in my previous post, it's probably because you lack the ability to understand it. And as regards "toxic diatribe", I don't really see why you are getting so upset because I am describing the market as I see it and from the examples I have quoted, and the folks I know, so if you can't understand that then there's no hope.

 

You still don't understand what I posted about the investment business, hence your second paragraph ("moral compass corner etc"), however I will not take the time to try and educate you on this because it will be a thankless task from what I can see, this despite you supposedly being a global investor in other asset classes.

 

I think what is also laughable is the terminology you use, "we are pleased.......!" and "predictable to all of us" and we this and we that. Why on earth did you decide to choose the royal we rather than "I"?

 

And there you go again, becoming the "real estate psychoanalyst" analysing whether I am "truly happy" in this post, and wanting me to find "true enlightenment/happiness", "painting myself into a corner", "not respecting other property owners", "seeing the glass half empty", "being bitter", etc etc, in other posts, so you would forgive me for wondering whether your inane ramblings are really about property here, or about the assumptions you incorrectly make with regards to me.

 

Why don't you stick to just posting on property and not trying to psychoanalyse people or make incorrect assumptions about them, because you have proven woefully inept at that. And you may wish to ask your "alter ego/doppelgänger" if it is all right with him if he is included in the "we" comments?

 

I shall continue to post about the property market as I see it and I shall continue to post about the experiences that friends have, and if you doubt that, you may wish to refer to a previous post where I quoted many examples of investors losing money here, just to refresh your memory.

 

So in summary, I will post about the property market as I see it and quote actual examples, so why don't you do likewise rather than trying to psychoanalyse people and then make incorrect assumptions.......stick to posting about real estate and don't worry your little head about experiences that people have which don't match yours! 

[madmitch]

This thread has gone horribly off-track! 

[LivinginKata]

14 minutes ago, madmitch said:

This thread has gone horribly off-track! 

 

What do you expect after 37 pages ...

[xylophone]

18 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

What do you expect after 37 pages ...

Well I will attempt to get it on track before I am asked to "find true enlightenment and happiness"........

 

The new bar in Nanai 6, which I referred to earlier is owned by a young French guy and his Thai g/f, and as I mentioned, the owners of the bar next door are not enthralled about its presence!!

 

It has had just a few folk in it from what I can see, however I wonder if it is another holiday romance purchase or should I say rent? Time will tell.
 

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

This post says more about you than it does me, you poor soul (or are you the "we" that you refer to?).

 

If anything is incoherent in my previous post, it's probably because you lack the ability to understand it. And as regards "toxic diatribe", I don't really see why you are getting so upset because I am describing the market as I see it and from the examples I have quoted, and the folks I know, so if you can't understand that then there's no hope.

 

You still don't understand what I posted about the investment business, hence your second paragraph ("moral compass corner etc"), however I will not take the time to try and educate you on this because it will be a thankless task from what I can see, this despite you supposedly being a global investor in other asset classes.

 

I think what is also laughable is the terminology you use, "we are pleased.......!" and "predictable to all of us" and we this and we that. Why on earth did you decide to choose the royal we rather than "I"?

 

And there you go again, becoming the "real estate psychoanalyst" analysing whether I am "truly happy" in this post, and wanting me to find "true enlightenment/happiness", "painting myself into a corner", "not respecting other property owners", "seeing the glass half empty", "being bitter", etc etc, in other posts, so you would forgive me for wondering whether your inane ramblings are really about property here, or about the assumptions you incorrectly make with regards to me.

 

Why don't you stick to just posting on property and not trying to psychoanalyse people or make incorrect assumptions about them, because you have proven woefully inept at that. And you may wish to ask your "alter ego/doppelgänger" if it is all right with him if he is included in the "we" comments?

 

I shall continue to post about the property market as I see it and I shall continue to post about the experiences that friends have, and if you doubt that, you may wish to refer to a previous post where I quoted many examples of investors losing money here, just to refresh your memory.

 

So in summary, I will post about the property market as I see it and quote actual examples, so why don't you do likewise rather than trying to psychoanalyse people and then make incorrect assumptions.......stick to posting about real estate and don't worry your little head about experiences that people have which don't match yours! 

Yawn. Still the same rambling and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge your hypocricy and unbalanced offensive attempts to bring down the investments of many thousands of expats and millions of Thais.

 

I suspected we shouldn't hold our breath in hope of a re-think and a more thoughful perspective from you.

 

Please do continue with you extreme unbalanced negativity and blatant hypocrisy, but please also be aware that most, if not all of us, can see through it.

 

With that being said Xylo, we all look forward to your next entertaining “night on the town” review.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Mysterion

[NamKangMan]

7 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Up on my road in Kata we see plenty of upmarket independent Chinese visitors. The private apartments on day rate are not cheap. Many opt for car hire, the rest all have hired m/bike. The property management company can't get enough apartments.  

 

Sorry - I know this is a Patong topic, But I know it's much the  same in Patong.   

 

I have heard, but only seen for myself once, whilst visiting a friend, the leasees of such apartments were then sub-leasing the apartment to larger groups of Chinese. 

[NamKangMan]

6 hours ago, cloudhopper said:

Well I hope they get on with the wake soon because the smell out in the bay is really awful when the breeze is off the shore.

 

Isn't that the smell of "progress?" 

[NamKangMan]

4 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Lol,  you are obviously a very confused person, to put it mildly.

 

We don't have time to hold your hand to teach you everything in detail. For that, you need to find/hire someone else.

 

However, somebody needs to debunk the misinformation you are spreading on the forum, as there may be some new people on here who actually fall for your falsehoods.

 

As such, for the benefit of others, i will debunk your nonsensical claims.

 

Other than the legally required minimum 51% Thai ownership of the units in the thai foreign freehold condo, the condo structure is essentially the same as “the definition of freehold is known in the west.”

 

“Same as the west”- each unit holder gets a vote for their unit

 

“Same as the west” -Each unit holder owns their unit and proportionate amount of the underlying land.

 

“Same as the west”- If the building was demolished and the land sold, each unit holder would be entitled to a proportionate share of the proceeds.

 

“Same as the west”- If you knew anything about global real estate, then your would also know that the vast majority of freehold condominiums are naturally majority owned and controlled by local citizens in other countries as well. It may not be written into law in the other countries, but local citizens tend to be the majority owners in condo buildings around the world anyway.

 

Now, unless you are suggesting that Thai people are somehow less worthy co-owners than foreigners(and that would highly offensive if you were), you will understand and appreciate that buying foreign freehold condos in thailand is essentially the same “as the definition of freehold is known in the west.”

 

Hope that helps the other members.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

I can assure you, I am well aware of global real estate.  I own property on three different continents. 

 

Perhaps you may care to comment on a typical scenario where the Thai developer "sells" the legal 51% to family members.  Where does that leave the the 49% of foreigner owners, in relation to having a voice about the property they are living in?  That is 49% of individuals, basically voting against a 51%  majority share holder. 

 

I will not even mention when the developer exceeds the 49%.  Of course, you will deny this is possible, but then again, so is building bars on the beach here. 

 

I'll give you a quick maths lesson.  49% is LESS than 51%.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that property ownership for foreigners in Thailand is similar to that in the west?????????

 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

How 49% or 51% or 87% of the owners ,may or may not vote on something has nothing to do with freehold title, all owners have one vote, thats it. The nationality, hair color or choice of shoes of the owners is not relevant and does not diminish freehold title.

There are blocks in Australia that are very popular with Chinese, they own maybe 80% of the block, its still freehold title. You still get one vote per condo.

 

You do realise that in most ex-pat areas foreigners buy up the 49% allocation then buy a piece of the 51% allocation through company ownership. In Phuket some blocks end up with 90% foreign ownership.

 

Ahhhh, yes, those Thai companies with Thai "nominees."

 

Care to elaborate on that, for the benefit of readers? 

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Xylo,

 

Your lengthy rambling and somewhat incoherent response, and attempts to deflect, are now very predictable to all of us, and dont satisfactorily address your toxic diatribe and hypocrisy regarding business and thailand real estate.

 

You are still firmly in that “moral compass” corner that you yourself painted, and you may be oblivious to it, but you remain offensive to all the people(thais and non thais) who happily buy/sell/own property in Thailand. 

 

We are pleased that you have chosen to reside as a tenant in Thailand. You are adding money to the local economy and supporting the local real estate industry, and thats good for all of us here.

 

However, if you(and a few of your expat mates) are truly happy, we wouldnt know it, as your posts are constantly and overwhelminly full of negativity.

 

As an FYI, i am a global investor in many asset classes. I am not a real estate agent, as you ridiculously try to imply.

 

Good day :))

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are a global investor, you would know that the capital that would be used to buy a property here is making more money "being put to work" than the cost of renting the EXACT same property. 

 

Thus, buying is not only making a LOSS, but also has significantly more risk attached.

 

So, why bother buying???? 

[NamKangMan]

2 hours ago, madmitch said:

This thread has gone horribly off-track! 

 

Well, yes and no, MM.

 

It's not only commercial property struggling at the moment, but also residential property here. 

 

With so many properties on the market, and no where near the amount of buyers there were in the past, particularly westerners, and, they keep building here, "the wake" has spilled over to the property market.  

 

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

2 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Yawn. Still the same rambling and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge your hypocricy and unbalanced offensive attempts to bring down the investments of many thousands of expats and millions of Thais.

 

I suspected we shouldn't hold our breath in hope of a re-think and a more thoughful perspective from you.

 

Please do continue with you extreme unbalanced negativity and blatant hypocrisy, but please also be aware that most, if not all of us, can see through it.

 

With that being said Xylo, we all look forward to your next entertaining “night on the town” review.

 

"unbalanced offensive attempts to bring down the investments of many thousands of expats" - many of which, currently have their properties for sale here now. 

[LivinginKata]

42 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I have heard, but only seen for myself once, whilst visiting a friend, the leasees of such apartments were then sub-leasing the apartment to larger groups of Chinese. 

 

Still off topic about Kata. Much of this independent rental business is through the internet like Air B&B  or similar. These Chinese are for sure not the coach hoards, much more sophisticated. A big management company are slowly taking 3 year leases on many privately owned apartments in our area. They have been angling for a 3 year lease on our 12 apartments with 18  bedrooms. My wife is hot to deal, I say wait until I'm dead as this is my home for now. Oh dear - might be that's a death wish ...   

 

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

If you are a global investor, you would know that the capital that would be used to buy a property here is making more money "being put to work" than the cost of renting the EXACT same property. 

 

Thus, buying is not only making a LOSS, but also has significantly more risk attached.

 

So, why bother buying???? 

Let me explain how I  think I am not making a loss here. 

 

I had 1,000,000 baht ($40,000) sitting in a bank in Australia giving me a return of 2-3% , 30,000 baht a year ($1200). I think we would both agree that wont pay my rent here, not even a 4th floor walk-up, cold water fan only room. I would need to draw down the 1mb to pay my rent, in 5 years it would be gone. Even if I found (almost impossible) a fantastic return in Australia of 10%, that would barely pay 8,000 a month rent.

 

Two and a half years ago, I used the 1mb to buy a condo, I dont pay rent any more. Identical Condo next door rents for 15,000 a month. In fact, in 2.5 years I have not paid rent close to half the value of the condo, 500,000 baht. In another 2.5 years I will have saved around 1mb in rent. (the purchase price). And I dont pay rent ever again.

 

Thing is, I still have my 1,000,000 baht, or at least an asset worth the same, Its win win.

 

I am confident I could sell for that as 4-5 sales, in the block, last year at that price, and others have the same condo, in the block, advertised for 2mb (the stupid prices that dont sell , that you see on multiple websites).

[LivinginKata]

5 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Lol,  you are obviously a very confused person, to put it mildly.

 

We don't have time to hold your hand to teach you everything in detail. For that, you need to find/hire someone else.

 

However, somebody needs to debunk the misinformation you are spreading on the forum, as there may be some new people on here who actually fall for your falsehoods.

 

As such, for the benefit of others, i will debunk your nonsensical claims.

 

Other than the legally required minimum 51% Thai ownership of the units in the thai foreign freehold condo, the condo structure is essentially the same as “the definition of freehold is known in the west.”

 

“Same as the west”- each unit holder gets a vote for their unit

 

“Same as the west” -Each unit holder owns their unit and proportionate amount of the underlying land.

 

“Same as the west”- If the building was demolished and the land sold, each unit holder would be entitled to a proportionate share of the proceeds.

 

“Same as the west”- If you knew anything about global real estate, then your would also know that the vast majority of freehold condominiums are naturally majority owned and controlled by local citizens in other countries as well. It may not be written into law in the other countries, but local citizens tend to be the majority owners in condo buildings around the world anyway.

 

Now, unless you are suggesting that Thai people are somehow less worthy co-owners than foreigners(and that would highly offensive if you were), you will understand and appreciate that buying foreign freehold condos in thailand is essentially the same “as the definition of freehold is known in the west.”

 

Hope that helps the other members.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

You are falling into NKM's typically trap. He is famous for engaging members into a useless argument that is never ending and circular.  I might make one response to him and then just ignore his circular responses.

 

I recommend other forum member do the same. 

[NamKangMan]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Let me explain how I  think I am not making a loss here. 

 

I had 1,000,000 baht ($40,000) sitting in a bank in Australia giving me a return of 2-3% , 30,000 baht a year ($1200). I think we would both agree that wont pay my rent here, not even a 4th floor walk-up, cold water fan only room. I would need to draw down the 1mb to pay my rent, in 5 years it would be gone. Even if I found (almost impossible) a fantastic return in Australia of 10%, that would barely pay 8,000 a month rent.

 

Two and a half years ago, I used the 1mb to buy a condo, I dont pay rent any more. Identical Condo next door rents for 15,000 a month. In fact, in 2.5 years I have not paid rent close to half the value of the condo, 500,000 baht. In another 2.5 years I will have saved around 1mb in rent. (the purchase price). And I dont pay rent ever again.

 

Thing is, I still have my 1,000,000 baht, or at least an asset worth the same, Its win win.

 

I am confident I could sell for that as 4-5 sales, in the block, last year at that price, and others have the same condo, in the block, advertised for 2mb (the stupid prices that dont sell , that you see on multiple websites).

 

Fair play Pete.

 

However, allow me to explain my stance.

 

Firstly, I would never live in 1 million baht condo, as I am currently not.  I would accept that the lower end condo's, at those prices, would "make" more in rent savings, than the money being put to work.

 

That said, it must be noted, that "2-3%" is a poor return.  I am currently getting significantly higher returns across my portfolio, and not with aggressive risk. 

 

Your post did not touch on poor construction methods and materials, ongoing fees and taxes, repairs and maintenance, lack of flexibility to move,  lack of town planning laws,  questionable foreign ownership of property laws, rapidly changing demographic of Phuket etc etc.  In general, these are the things money can not buy here.

 

Your confidence in being able to double your money on the sale, within 12 months, is interesting.  Are you suggesting similar condo's have doubled in value, in 12 months?  I would find that hard to believe. 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Fair play Pete.

 

However, allow me to explain my stance.

 

Firstly, I would never live in 1 million baht condo, as I am currently not.  I would accept that the lower end condo's, at those prices, would "make" more in rent savings, than the money being put to work.

 

That said, it must be noted, that "2-3%" is a poor return.  I am currently getting significantly higher returns across my portfolio, and not with aggressive risk. 

 

Your post did not touch on poor construction methods and materials, ongoing fees and taxes, repairs and maintenance, lack of flexibility to move,  lack of town planning laws,  questionable foreign ownership of property laws, rapidly changing demographic of Phuket etc etc.  In general, these are the things money can not buy here.

 

Your confidence in being able to double your money on the sale, within 12 months, is interesting.  Are you suggesting similar condo's have doubled in value, in 12 months?  I would find that hard to believe. 

I wasnt saying I could sell for 2mb, just that some idiots do advertise that price, for the same condos that sell for 1mb, I would be confident I could get back my purchase price of 1mb. People wanting 2mb makes it easier.