Govt vows to protect public’s interests in high-speed rail project

[rooster59]

Govt vows to protect public’s interests in high-speed rail project

Thammarat Thadaphrom

 

BANGKOK, 24th June 2017 (NNT) – The Ministry of Transport has reasserted it will protect the best interests of the Thai public in advancing the much-anticipated high-speed train project. 

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said today the details of the construction of the Thailand-China railway project from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima have been carefully deliberated by responsible committees and have been discussed in 18 meetings between Thailand and China over the past two years. 

The minister said the high-speed rail project is meant to enhance the nation’s transport capacity and the logistics sector, giving a strong assurance that the country’s interests are the government’s top priority. 

Under the agreement, China is obligated to transfer knowledge and technology to Thai workers while the construction process will be supervised by the Thai side. Since the agreement was reached, 250 Thai engineers have already been sent to China for training. 

 

 

-- nnt 2017-06-24

[starky]

Yes the country's interests are the government's top priority. Good to know. I'll sleep better now. Should be awesome Chinese engineers supervised by Thais... What could possibly go wrong? 

Edited June 24, 2017 by starky

[Ricardo]

IMO the best way to protect Thai interests, regarding the Chinese medium-speed freight-line to Laos & southern-China, would be to get the Chinese to pay for it, since it's their economy which will benefit the most ?

 

Thailand should only pay the marginal-cost of the extra rolling-stock & track-work & stations, which might be necessary to run a few medium-speed domestic passenger-services, but a cynic might say that that would mean smaller brown-envelopes.

 

China should be very happy, to see Thailand pay (as currently proposed) for this section of their new export-route, as it relieves them of the economic-risk involved.

[Smarter Than You]

Using Section 44 to "protect public's interests"

 

Let us remind the anti-democrats, so driven by (crocodile) tears over “corruption,” that you do get exactly what you whistled for.

 

… Of the total nine laws that will be sidestepped, seven were promulgated to ensure transparency and fairness in state procurement and two others involve the employment of foreigners in the project.

 

… The invocation of Section 44 prompts some people to compare the [General] Prayut[h Chan-ocha] project to the one proposed by the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

 

Like it or not, it’s obvious the project proposed under the Yingluck government, which encompassed the same 256-kilometre route, seemed far better in terms of efficiency and transparency.

 

The Yingluck version, as handled by former transport minister Chadchart Sittipunt, would have cost 140 billion baht, against [G]en Prayut’s 179 billion. Under the Yingluck administration, the rail track was included in a mega-infrastructure development package and proposed to parliament for consideration….

 

The difference between the train project of this government and that of Yingluck’s is that the previous administration’s project was open to all legal examination mechanisms and underwent international bidding, which would provide the country with the best offer.

 

You get what you whistle for: a military dictatorship that is opaque, repressive and corrupt.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Smarter Than You

[candide]

Well, I think we all know what interests will be protected.....

[coulson]

Last week 100 Thai Engineers were pegged for the job yet this week 250 are sent for training?

 

I suspect the budget has also been underestimated to the tune of a similar ratio, and ultimately a huge dependence will be placed on China's good will to ensure this project sees the finish line.

 

 

[Godang]

Prayuth needs this done quickly so he can use the train to whisk him from his home to his place of work? Also his pension fund needs topping up that is why the project is costing 39bn more than the Yingluck proposal. 

[hansnl]

31 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Using Section 44 to "protect public's interests"

 

Let us remind the anti-democrats, so driven by (crocodile) tears over “corruption,” that you do get exactly what you whistled for.

 

… Of the total nine laws that will be sidestepped, seven were promulgated to ensure transparency and fairness in state procurement and two others involve the employment of foreigners in the project.

 

… The invocation of Section 44 prompts some people to compare the [General] Prayut[h Chan-ocha] project to the one proposed by the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

 

Like it or not, it’s obvious the project proposed under the Yingluck government, which encompassed the same 256-kilometre route, seemed far better in terms of efficiency and transparency.

 

The Yingluck version, as handled by former transport minister Chadchart Sittipunt, would have cost 140 billion baht, against [G]en Prayut’s 179 billion. Under the Yingluck administration, the rail track was included in a mega-infrastructure development package and proposed to parliament for consideration….

 

The difference between the train project of this government and that of Yingluck’s is that the previous administration’s project was open to all legal examination mechanisms and underwent international bidding, which would provide the country with the best offer.

 

You get what you whistle for: a military dictatorship that is opaque, repressive and corrupt.

Ahhhhhh.

You mean the Shinawatra government was nothing if the kind?

[Emster23]

If they truly cared about the public interest, they wouldn't build it.

[Eric Loh]

Once they use 44 and signed on the dotted line to start the project without public consultation, care become care-less for public interest. 

 

[Jonmarleesco]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The Ministry of Transport has reasserted it will protect the best interests of the Thai public in advancing the much-anticipated high-speed train project. 

Second only to the Chinese.

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Govt vows to protect public’s interests in high-speed rail project

And if we fail .... cry, cry again.

Because that's the only degree of accountability with the Prayut government.

[Smarter Than You]

4 hours ago, hansnl said:

Ahhhhhh.

You mean the Shinawatra government was nothing if the kind?

How about a comment on the use of Section 44 to eliminate transparency or perhaps on why there were no international bids or how about an explanation for the extra 39 billion baht???

 

Oh, no, no, no ... Thaksin is the devil.

[halloween]

5 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Using Section 44 to "protect public's interests"

 

Let us remind the anti-democrats, so driven by (crocodile) tears over “corruption,” that you do get exactly what you whistled for.

 

… Of the total nine laws that will be sidestepped, seven were promulgated to ensure transparency and fairness in state procurement and two others involve the employment of foreigners in the project.

 

… The invocation of Section 44 prompts some people to compare the [General] Prayut[h Chan-ocha] project to the one proposed by the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

 

Like it or not, it’s obvious the project proposed under the Yingluck government, which encompassed the same 256-kilometre route, seemed far better in terms of efficiency and transparency.

 

The Yingluck version, as handled by former transport minister Chadchart Sittipunt, would have cost 140 billion baht, against [G]en Prayut’s 179 billion. Under the Yingluck administration, the rail track was included in a mega-infrastructure development package and proposed to parliament for consideration….

 

The difference between the train project of this government and that of Yingluck’s is that the previous administration’s project was open to all legal examination mechanisms and underwent international bidding, which would provide the country with the best offer.

 

You get what you whistle for: a military dictatorship that is opaque, repressive and corrupt.

Threw in quite a few casual lies in that lot, didn't you?

"Yingluck Shinawatra, the prime minister, has embarked on a mission to raise the cash. A fortnight ago parliament passed a bill that permits the government to take on off-budget debt equivalent to the combined annual economic output of Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia.

The centrepiece of the spending plan is a network of high-speed railway lines to connect the country’s four main regions with Bangkok."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2013/10/infrastructure-spending-thailand

 

You forgot to mention the B400 billion line to Chiang Mai. No doubt they would have shared some infrastructure.

[Smarter Than You]

8 minutes ago, halloween said:

Threw in quite a few casual lies in that lot, didn't you?

"Yingluck Shinawatra, the prime minister, has embarked on a mission to raise the cash. A fortnight ago parliament passed a bill that permits the government to take on off-budget debt equivalent to the combined annual economic output of Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia.

The centrepiece of the spending plan is a network of high-speed railway lines to connect the country’s four main regions with Bangkok."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2013/10/infrastructure-spending-thailand

 

You forgot to mention the B400 billion line to Chiang Mai. No doubt they would have shared some infrastructure.

Well, the thing with that particular post, is that it is actually mostly taken from a published article that I can't provide a link for because it contains LM material.

 

So, I guess one mans "casual lies" are an editorial boards facts.

 

Here's your chance to give us your view on where you think the extra 39 billion will end up.

[halloween]

41 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Well, the thing with that particular post, is that it is actually mostly taken from a published article that I can't provide a link for because it contains LM material.

 

So, I guess one mans "casual lies" are an editorial boards facts.

 

Here's your chance to give us your view on where you think the extra 39 billion will end up.

Well that explains the obvious bias and false statements, doesn't it. Off-budget, as was the rice scam, is not what you use for transparency. In fact, quite the opposite.

The explanation was given, you just failed to grasp it. Multiple rail systems would have shared some infrastructure and costs.

[Smarter Than You]

7 minutes ago, halloween said:

Well that explains the obvious bias and false statements, doesn't it. Off-budget, as was the rice scam, is not what you use for transparency. In fact, quite the opposite.

The explanation was given, you just failed to grasp it. Multiple rail systems would have shared some infrastructure and costs.

It is a dud deal on so many fronts.

 

"Korn Chatikavanij, a former finance minister who initiated the bullet train concept under the Democrat government, believes the junta has misplayed its hand. He argues the regime signaled too early, too strongly its intent to build the line even without a Chinese commitment to co-invest. In comparison, Korn says he made clear from the outset that Beijing should cover most of the costs, as it stood more to gain economically and strategically from the link."

 

China-Thailand Railway Project Gets Untracked | The Diplomat

 

Junta Pilloried for Handling of Rail Project at Forum - Khaosod English

 

 

[Bluespunk]

9 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said today the details of the construction of the Thailand-China railway project from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima have been carefully deliberated by responsible committees and have been discussed in 18 meetings between Thailand and China over the past two years. 

Hope you brought your long spoons to these meetings. 

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

It is a dud deal on so many fronts.

 

"Korn Chatikavanij, a former finance minister who initiated the bullet train concept under the Democrat government, believes the junta has misplayed its hand. He argues the regime signaled too early, too strongly its intent to build the line even without a Chinese commitment to co-invest. In comparison, Korn says he made clear from the outset that Beijing should cover most of the costs, as it stood more to gain economically and strategically from the link."

 

China-Thailand Railway Project Gets Untracked | The Diplomat

 

Junta Pilloried for Handling of Rail Project at Forum - Khaosod English

 

 

Nice change of subject, after your claim of transparency has been shot down and a reasonable explanation for increased costs found.

 

BTW I have only EVER supported this project as a joint freight and passenger line since its first mention some 10 years ago. Originally I supported metre gauge dual tracking, but if China is prepared to assist in a standard gauge dual purpose line, it makes sense to co-operate. 

[Smarter Than You]

7 minutes ago, halloween said:

Nice change of subject, after your claim of transparency has been shot down and a reasonable explanation for increased costs found.

 

BTW I have only EVER supported this project as a joint freight and passenger line since its first mention some 10 years ago. Originally I supported metre gauge dual tracking, but if China is prepared to assist in a standard gauge dual purpose line, it makes sense to co-operate. 

Not sure what your definition of shot down is but the fact remains that of the 9 laws that the Junta bypassed with Section 44 - Seven of them were to ensure transparency.

 

I know how you tend to get a little confused when it comes to the Junta being less than perfect but surely you can muster the intellectual fortitude to reach the conclusion that bypassing transparency laws is not the best way to "protect the public's interests".

 

As for costs - you and everybody else have no idea at all about the Junta's costs (probably something to do with the transparency laws being Section 44'd)

Even the Democrats main man Korn doesn't know the Junta's costs (Junta says they'll get loans at 1.8% Korn thinks it will be closer to 4%)

 

As for China assisting - Korn says China should cover most costs because they benefit the most, instead the Junta geniuses misplayed their hand and ended up being stuck with the entire tab.

[Redline]

I believe he means selected Thais, not all.  Can we go watch, if we wear hard hats and boots? 

[halloween]

9 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Not sure what your definition of shot down is but the fact remains that of the 9 laws that the Junta bypassed with Section 44 - Seven of them were to ensure transparency.

 

I know how you tend to get a little confused when it comes to the Junta being less than perfect but surely you can muster the intellectual fortitude to reach the conclusion that bypassing transparency laws is not the best way to "protect the public's interests".

 

As for costs - you and everybody else have no idea at all about the Junta's costs (probably something to do with the transparency laws being Section 44'd)

Even the Democrats main man Korn doesn't know the Junta's costs (Junta says they'll get loans at 1.8% Korn thinks it will be closer to 4%)

 

As for China assisting - Korn says China should cover most costs because they benefit the most, instead the Junta geniuses misplayed their hand and ended up being stuck with the entire tab.

Shot down is when what you claim was transparent was actually planned to be off-budget with no figures to be released - just like the rice scam. In fact, many people were convinced that the B2.2 trillion loan would be used to finance the rice scam which had accumulated an estimated B600 billion already.

What I don't support is claims by you, without any proof, that invariably turn out to be distortions of the truth or outright lies.

[Scott]

A post which has a misquote has been removed.  

[Smarter Than You]

12 minutes ago, halloween said:

Shot down is when what you claim was transparent was actually planned to be off-budget with no figures to be released - just like the rice scam. In fact, many people were convinced that the B2.2 trillion loan would be used to finance the rice scam which had accumulated an estimated B600 billion already.

What I don't support is claims by you, without any proof, that invariably turn out to be distortions of the truth or outright lies.

Blah, blah, blah ... you are my friend, the proverbial broken record.

 

The Junta has just used Section 44 to annul at least 7 laws that were "promulgated to ensure transparency and fairness in state procurement"

 

Is that a good thing?

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Blah, blah, blah ... you are my friend, the proverbial broken record.

 

The Junta has just used Section 44 to annul at least 7 laws that were "promulgated to ensure transparency and fairness in state procurement"

 

Is that a good thing?

You don't like having your lies refuted? Why would I comment on an allegation of yours without any specifics?

 

BTW do you ever answer questions put to you, or just ignore them as you post more propaganda? The question isn't rhetorical though I don't expect an answer.

[Smarter Than You]

11 minutes ago, halloween said:

You don't like having your lies refuted? Why would I comment on an allegation of yours without any specifics?

 

BTW do you ever answer questions put to you, or just ignore them as you post more propaganda? The question isn't rhetorical though I don't expect an answer.

Because you say something is a lie, does not make it a lie.

 

7 of the 9 laws that the Junta annulled with Section 44 are to ensure transparency and fairness in state procurement - this is a fact.

 

Now, I understand that this particular fact makes you uncomfortable - but that does not alter the reality that it is a fact.

 

I'll answer any question you want.

 

So,

 

The Junta has just used Section 44 to annul at least 7 laws that were "promulgated to ensure transparency and fairness in state procurement"

 

Is that a good thing??

 

 

[mtls2005]

I'm trying to imagine the reactions if the previous government had forced through the HSR "project" via a decree from on high?

 

The yellows would have hand-clapped and whistled themselves into apoplexy.

 

 

[halloween]

Just now, mtls2005 said:

I'm trying to imagine the reactions if the previous government had forced through the HSR "project" via a decree from on high?

 

The yellows would have hand-clapped and whistled themselves into apoplexy.

 

 

55555. Wasn't that what they proposed, borrowing B2.2 trillion and proceeding off-budget without parliamentary oversight?

[Srikcir]

20 minutes ago, halloween said:

55555. Wasn't that what they proposed, borrowing B2.2 trillion and proceeding off-budget without parliamentary oversight?

How is that different from Prayut proceeding without transparency or accountability and with a rubber stamp NCPO-appointed parliament?

In fact the Constitutional Court denied Yingluck on the project because it "will bypass scrutiny."  https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/683350-two-trillion-baht-bill-likely-to-be-killed-by-charter-court/

The NCPO governs differently but the same.

 

[halloween]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

How is that different from Prayut proceeding without transparency or accountability and with a rubber stamp NCPO-appointed parliament?

In fact the Constitutional Court denied Yingluck on the project because it "will bypass scrutiny."  https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/683350-two-trillion-baht-bill-likely-to-be-killed-by-charter-court/

The NCPO governs differently but the same.

 

Thank you for the link. I was responding to a post claiming Yingluk's proposal was far more transparent. Whether the current proposal will be better is yet to be seen.