Majority of Thais don’t understand primary voting system, poll finds

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Bob12345 said:

Germany did prosper before it started the war, partly because it was preparing for the war. And see how that prosperity ended, the country did not look that great after the defeat.

 

I already wanted China to be excluded not because China is the great success story of prosperity under an undemocratic rule, but because it is too long of a story to make the point why China's prosperity was not that much of an accomplishment and won't last that long.

 

You could also have answered North Korea by the way, by you logic they are doing tremendous now compared to the decades of famine.

 

And strange you only could chose from 2 countries. There must have been hundreds of military governments all around the government in the past 100 years.

How did 99% of them end?

China is still lasting and doing well... but that is not your opinion.. how long have people been talking about the downfall of China. You just did not want to include China as it would harm your ideas. Believe it or not I want the junta to go away. I would much rather have them go away this moment then in a year or more. I just don't see Thaksin his proxies as a great alternative. But let them try again, nothing wrong with that. 

[baboon]

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes it prospered for quite some time years before it started that war. You know how bad the economy was there. Its not a ringing endorsement. China is but Bob was telling me what i could and could not answer kinda like a little dictator. 

Rob: Nazi. Germany. Was. Not. A. Success. Story.

Edited June 25, 2017 by baboon

[robblok]

Just now, baboon said:

Rob. Nazi. Germany. Was. Not. A. Success. Story.

Nazi Germany not.. but the economy in the years leading to the war were. I am talking economics here. In no way would I ever support them. 

[Bob12345]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am not against democracy in Thailand.. i say it works not as well here and that people are easily influenced and listen to the ones they own allegiance too. That is the whole basis of the system here (patronage system). I thought you would have known by now. 

You are against democracy in Thailand as it doesnt work well here as long as the patronage system is here. That is what you are saying right?

 

So how many things have you seen your dear leader do to bring this patronage system to a halt?

Did he not appoint his friends and family members to high positions in the army?

And his friends and family members to high positions in all his councils?

And change the constitution so his friends and family members will stay in power whoever wins an election?

Isn't he creating his very own patronage system?

[Bob12345]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nazi Germany not.. but the economy in the years leading to the war were. I am talking economics here. In no way would I ever support them. 

The economy was doing well BECAUSE they were preparing for war.

[Smarter Than You]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

Rob. Nazi. Germany. Was. Not. A. Success. Story.

Depends how you want to measure success.

As far as I'm aware during Hitlers entire reign, not a single child was blown up in Trat.

That's gotta be worth something.

[edwinchester]

"The pollster said about 75 per cent of respondents admitted that they did not understand the primary voting system...."

 

Sad that the electorate are so uninformed.

 

"Asked to list the good points of the primary voting system, 72 per cent said it would allow people to participate in politics while 68 per cent said it would allow people to have their chosen representatives in the House. 

 

Nearly 65 per cent said the system would prevent party financiers from controlling the party. Respondents were allowed more than one answer.

 

Asked to list drawbacks of primary voting, 72 per cent of respondents said they expect it to create rifts in the party, 64 per cent expected it would be time-consuming and too complicated, while 61 per cent said it would create serious trouble for small parties."

 

Yet when asked to agree pro's and con's the above was produced.

One reason opinion polls are as worthless as used toilet paper.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Bob12345 said:

You are against democracy in Thailand as it doesnt work well here as long as the patronage system is here. That is what you are saying right?

 

So how many things have you seen your dear leader do to bring this patronage system to a halt?

Did he not appoint his friends and family members to high positions in the army?

And his friends and family members to high positions in all his councils?

And change the constitution so his friends and family members will stay in power whoever wins an election?

Isn't he creating his very own patronage system?

Ill mirror it back to you.. how much did YL do.. did she not appoint all her family members in positions of power ? Thaksin did the same thing but on an even larger scale.

 

Now do you get it, democracy does not work when there is a patronage system. 

 

And yes dear leader did the same bad things.. 

 

But we were talking about democracy and the patronage system.. in the patronage system you do what those higher up tell you too.. so you don't think you vote how they tell you to vote.. in a democracy you need to think for yourself. Yes or No ?

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Depends how you want to measure success.

As far as I'm aware during Hitlers entire reign, not a single child was blown up in Trat.

That's gotta be worth something.

True.. indeed your so smart.. i awe in your presence. We were talking economics.. no way would i support nazi germany. That is why i said Germany not Natzi Germany. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

The economy was doing well BECAUSE they were preparing for war.

For a large part yes especially later on, but also because of for instance the building of Volkswagens and other projects. But if you see from how deep a recession they came from they did quite well. You only asked me about a economy doing well under a military dictatorship. You did not set a time frame.. you did not ask if i supported them or not you told me I could not use China.. and now your saying I cant use Germany because it was preparing for war. Next time if you ask a question you could fill in the answer yourself, (you did so by excluding China)

 

Can we go back to the topic at hand, this is boring.

[FredNL]

At PAIBKK.com we have several Top Level Domains available. Thai government could explain more on them as the average Thai is online 18 hours per day.

Like:

• .vote (dot vote) http://paibkk.com/vote
• .voting (dot voting) http://paibkk.com/voting

Just a few examples..

[Bob12345]

Now do you get it, democracy does not work when there is a patronage system. 

So we agree that you are against democracy in Thailand because there is a patronage system and as the current leader is doing nothing to change that you are also against democracy in Thailand for the (near) future.

So skip all the bs asking for a discussion about the pros and cons of the new system, you are anti-democacry anyways.

[Bob12345]

23 minutes ago, robblok said:

and now your saying I cant use Germany because it was preparing for war. Next time if you ask a question you could fill in the answer yourself, (you did so by excluding China)

I never said that. Actually I love that you picked Germany as your example as that undermines your own argument so much I don't even have to react.

 

And if China is not allowed and there are no other examples, and that given hundreds of military government in the recent past, you already admit that positive results from having a military government is extremely unlikely. So again, you seem to undermine your own argument without me having to say anything.

[robblok]

Just now, Bob12345 said:

So we agree that you are against democracy in Thailand because there is a patronage system and as the current leader is doing nothing to change that you are also against democracy in Thailand for the (near) future.

So skip all the bs asking for a discussion about the pros and cons of the new system, you are anti-democacry anyways.

You seem to have a reading problem, i said I am not against democracy in Thailand and want to see the junta gone. However democracy in Thailand works a lot worse then in other countries because of the patronage system.

 

You are great at avoiding questions. and accepting that YL and Thaksins were also masters of the patronage system. 

 

This voting system would certainly go against the patronage system as it would mean the top leaders could not control who becomes MP. It would be a good step forward and it would weaken those who seek total control of political parties. 

 

Now be a good boy and tell me if you like this new system or not and why not. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

I never said that. Actually I love that you picked Germany as your example as that undermines your own argument so much I don't even have to react.

 

And if China is not allowed and there are no other examples, and that given hundreds of military government in the recent past, you already admit that positive results from having a military government is extremely unlikely. So again, you seem to undermine your own argument without me having to say anything.

You put a question and then removed the most successful non democratic country from the answers. Not really fair. I could go on about Germany but that only suits your purpose because you dread debating the real topic at hand. There are also hundreds of failed democracies.. mainly in Africa and South America.. only places where Democracies seem to work good (with exceptions) is in Europe and North America.

Edited June 25, 2017 by robblok

[robblok]

46 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why i want to discuss it hear.. maybe because its a discussion board and that is what we do here. I am not sure what else to do here.. all agree and sing kumbayaa ?

 

I am not against democracy in Thailand.. i say it works not as well here and that people are easily influenced and listen to the ones they own allegiance too. That is the whole basis of the system here (patronage system). I thought you would have known by now. 

To show bob cant read.  Posted this to him way before his reply.

[Get Real]

What a suprise! Geee, ooh my!

[Bob12345]

Now be a good boy and tell me if you like this new system or not and why not. 

Now you be a good girl and admit that the problem (the patronage system) is not being tackled, or is even becoming bigger, under the current government and therefore Thailand is removed further from a working democracy than before the coup.

And i understand your hate for ptp and taksin, i dont like them either, but dont let it blind you in supporting the current group of thugs.

[robblok]

Just now, Bob12345 said:

Now you be a good girl and admit that the problem (the patronage system) is not being tackled, or is even becoming bigger, under the current government and therefore Thailand is removed further from a working democracy than before the coup.

And i understand your hate for ptp and taksin, i dont like them either, but dont let it blind you in supporting the current group of thugs.

Again avoiding the question... its about the primary voting system. What is your opinion on it.. as it would make the patronage system harder it would give power to the people and take it away from the party leadership. 

 

The current mob is not doing a good job, as it too put his friends in power, anything that destroys the patronage system a bit is a good thing. But the current and previous mob have not done much so far about this system. They all benefit from it.  This could at least change it a bit.. its a start.. with a long way to go.

[Bob12345]

Again avoiding the question... its about the primary voting system. What is your opinion on it.. as it would make the patronage system harder it would give power to the people and take it away from the party leadership. 

 

The current mob is not doing a good job, as it too put his friends in power, anything that destroys the patronage system a bit is a good thing. But the current and previous mob have not done much so far about this system. They all benefit from it.  This could at least change it a bit.. its a start.. with a long way to go.

The subject is the poll and its outcomes. Scroll to post #1 and see for yourself.

 

The voting system: its like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

The subject is the poll and its outcomes. Scroll to post #1 and see for yourself.

Whatever deflection after deflection, what is it with you your supposed to be pro democracy but seem to be so hesitant to discuss this measure that is more democratic as the old system. Seems you only like debate things where you can put the junta in a bad light then having to debate something that is a good idea fielded by the junta.  You like to have people answer your questions.. but you don't do others the cutesy to do the same. 

 

Again, what are your  problems with this system, if no problems with it is it that hard to admit. 

[Smarter Than You]

   2 hours ago,  robblok said: 

Countries that prospered under military rule 

Germany (it did prosper got out of the deepest crisis ever.. only problem that they started a war but don't see that happening here)

 

[HHTel]

75 per cent do not understand it.

 

50 per cent want it.

72 per cent said it would allow people to participate in politics.

68 per cent said it would allow people to have their chosen rep.

65 per cent said it would prevent financiers having control.

 

And there were more statistics.  How can any of those figures be relevant when 75% didn't understand!!!!

 

Typical Thai maths.

 

 

 

 

 

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

By the right sort of people.
There are plenty of ways to ensure that the people you don't wish to have an ( effective) vote can be disenfranchised.
Multiple round voting has the advantages of:
1) Giving greater opportunities to confuse the less well informed ( particularly when you have ensured that you have a handle on the media, and can limit the freedom to campaign.
2) Increasing the opportunities to ensure that the "good" candidates are selected and stand.
3) Possibly leading to many becoming bored with a long drawn out process and therefore losing interest.

and appointing senators and giving yourself amnesty knowing, one day, the tables will turn  

[halloween]

40 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

The subject is the poll and its outcomes. Scroll to post #1 and see for yourself.

 

The voting system: its like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

You can't seriously tell me that you approve of the current system where the guy with the money chooses who will run as candidates for his party, pays candidates likely to win to join his party, and puts the unelectables on a party list to profit from their votes. And then reject a more democratic system known to work in major democracies because you don't like the people proposing it.

[Bob12345]

You can't seriously tell me that you approve of the current system where the guy with the money chooses who will run as candidates for his party, pays candidates likely to win to join his party, and puts the unelectables on a party list to profit from their votes. And then reject a more democratic system known to work in major democracies because you don't like the people proposing it.

You mean the current system where civilians fight who can enrich themselves the coming 4 years and when the red side wins the opponents will discuss with the army how best to create an excuse for a coup?

[Smarter Than You]

3 minutes ago, halloween said:

You can't seriously tell me that you approve of the current system where the guy with the money chooses who will run as candidates for his party, pays candidates likely to win to join his party, and puts the unelectables on a party list to profit from their votes. And then reject a more democratic system known to work in major democracies because you don't like the people proposing it.

Seems you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

"THE PRIMARY voting system, despite its stated intention to eliminate financial influence over political parties, would quite to the contrary empower political powerhouses even further and reduce the chances for emerging, small-scale parties to take part in elections, according to politicians and academics."

 

"Nipit Intharasombat, deputy leader of the Democrat Party, also agreed that the system would only promote a clan system in the political arena beginning with the local level."

 

Primary voting system 'a threat to small parties' - The Nation - Thailand's

[halloween]

1 minute ago, Smarter Than You said:

Seems you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

"THE PRIMARY voting system, despite its stated intention to eliminate financial influence over political parties, would quite to the contrary empower political powerhouses even further and reduce the chances for emerging, small-scale parties to take part in elections, according to politicians and academics."

 

"Nipit Intharasombat, deputy leader of the Democrat Party, also agreed that the system would only promote a clan system in the political arena beginning with the local level."

 

Primary voting system 'a threat to small parties' - The Nation - Thailand's

Is that what happens in the US?

 

3 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

You mean the current system where civilians fight who can enrich themselves the coming 4 years and when the red side wins the opponents will discuss with the army how best to create an excuse for a coup?

What has that got to do with primary voting; is your response to a difficult question just to type some rubbish?

[Bob12345]

7 minutes ago, halloween said:

What has that got to do with primary voting; is your response to a difficult question just to type some rubbish?

Great reponse from someone who just deflected a valid question asked by SmarterThanYou with a "is that what happens in the US?".

 

LOL

[Smarter Than You]

10 minutes ago, halloween said:

Is that what happens in the US?

Is the next Thai election occurring in the US?