Brunolem Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: That's irrelevant to the boffins that dream up these things because IMO they apparently live in a bubble and rarely visit the world most of us live in. In their world, potholes probably don't exist, and neither do people walk out into traffic without looking as they are want to do in rural Thailand. However, AI will know what potholes look like and what the effect of driving through them does to the passengers. The danger is that greed will make them bring in driverless cars before AI is cheap enough to put in every car. I have been hearing about electric cars for as long as I can remember...decades...and yet where are they? I think driverless cars will follow the same path, not only because they will prove very difficult to fine tune, but mostly because drivers (such as myself) simply won't want them, prefering to stay in control, whatever the stats may say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retiredandhappyhere Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 11:39 AM, Old Croc said: "Many driverless cars are on the roads around the world, now. Obviously not in general use, but in the evaluation stage. Most car manufacturers have set targets for production of commercial sales for these vehicles. They may become common even in my lifetime". Maybe, but so much depends on the cost of these future driver-less cars. Will the cost be such, even when produced in huge volumes, that ordinary people on average wages will be able to afford them without selling their home first? I remember that, in the 1960's and 1970's, we were assured (for example) that houses of the future would have vacuum cleaners built into the skirting boards, so that nobody would have to clean the room manually. That never happened, although we can now buy lawn mowers/ sprinklers and vacuum cleaners that can roam around the area and do a reasonable job, providing that the garden has no bushes, trees or ornaments in the way and the room has no furniture. Apparently great ideas but ultimately impractical for most people. In the event of a car accident, who pays the bill, the driver of the conventional car, the driverless car manufacturer or the computer supplier? Or will everything be on a "knock for knock" basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben2talk Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I am not sure who you are referring to??? If you mean my examples above, of course these situations can happen everywhere, and yes machines are better at judging the things you mention than the human brain. Yet, driving is specific in the sense that there are the road rules, and there are multiple exceptions. What I mean if that a driver follows the rules to the letter, he may never arrive to destination, or way later than expected. Examples are infinite...there is a tractor in front of me, moving at 20 per hour, but there is also a yellow line...if I don't cross the yellow line, I am stuck for hours...as a human I decide to cross the yellow line when I estimate it is safe enough... How does one program a driverless car to follow the road rules, yet not to follow them in certain circumstances? How does one program a driverless car to stay on the right lane, even though it should be on the left lane, because the latter is full of potholes, or is slippery after a rain shower? And so on...Again, you are oversimplifying. If the driverless cars are carrying passengers, then surely one of the passengers would be required to a licensed and have the power to override the automation. If the driverless system has enough power to evaluate the road fine if I had to make a judgment that overtaking is possible, then I am sure that solid white lines and center of the road will not be an issue. Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 49 minutes ago, ben2talk said: Again, you are oversimplifying. If the driverless cars are carrying passengers, then surely one of the passengers would be required to a licensed and have the power to override the automation. If the driverless system has enough power to evaluate the road fine if I had to make a judgment that overtaking is possible, then I am sure that solid white lines and center of the road will not be an issue. Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app This would mean that one of the passengers would actually be behind the wheel, checking what is going on, and override automation when necessary. The concerned passenger would somehow be like the teacher riding shotgun in the driving school car, always ready to intervene...not exactly relaxing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 True story: a driverless car in the US, had its computer hacked by some hackers who were over a mile away. They forced the car to slowly drive into a ditch. It's on video, but I don't have the URL. That's just one of the many reasons why I will never have anything to do with driverless cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 11:39 AM, Old Croc said: Many driverless cars are on the roads around the world, now. Obviously not in general use, but in the evaluation stage. Most car manufacturers have set targets for production of commercial sales for these vehicles. They may become common even in my lifetime. http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=384 Several large iron ore mines in Western Australia have been using automated dump trucks for nearly two years with great success in productivity and improved safety records. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-18/rio-tinto-opens-worlds-first-automated-mine/6863814 This is not a scifi dream, but about to become a reality. You are correct, but the scenario should scare every manual worker and every low income parent that expects their children to get work. Driverless cars and trucks being made in human devoid factories is all very well as long as there is anyone with enough money to use/ buy the products delivered, but once everything is automated......................................... As usual the powers that be are ignoring the future problems to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 10:03 AM, Brunolem said: I have been hearing about electric cars for as long as I can remember...decades...and yet where are they? I think driverless cars will follow the same path, not only because they will prove very difficult to fine tune, but mostly because drivers (such as myself) simply won't want them, prefering to stay in control, whatever the stats may say... You may not have the choice. If the nanny state decrees that human controlled cars are too dangerous ( as they are ) they can force everyone to comply with the brave new world. Electric cars are here. The problem is infrastructure, and if that is solved they will be common if not mandatory in cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 5:13 PM, ben2talk said: Again, you are oversimplifying. If the driverless cars are carrying passengers, then surely one of the passengers would be required to a licensed and have the power to override the automation. If the driverless system has enough power to evaluate the road fine if I had to make a judgment that overtaking is possible, then I am sure that solid white lines and center of the road will not be an issue. Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Too difficult legally. Imagine a car is taken over by the passenger and crashes- legal nightmare. How could they mandate that a passenger in a self drive taxi is licensed and legally allowed to take over a vehicle not his? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said: You may not have the choice. If the nanny state decrees that human controlled cars are too dangerous ( as they are ) they can force everyone to comply with the brave new world. Electric cars are here. The problem is infrastructure, and if that is solved they will be common if not mandatory in cities. Here is an article that confirms what I was writing above: driverless cars require a huge amount of data to be safe, and the technology for that is not ready yet and won't be for many years to come. Note that the article is not only about driverless cars, but about automation in general...and written by scientists, not by publicists... http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/dont-believe-hype-ai-driven-world-still-long-way-off/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 How are you going to address this programming issue ... You buy a car that drives itself. You bought and paid for it. You come across a situation where the car can either hit 5 pedestrians or veer away from them and drive over a cliff, resulting in your death. What is the car going to do - kill you, who bought it, or kill the others ? Self driving cars already proven to do a good job of trying to kill you. New Peterbilt has auto braking. Situation in USA where the driver was on the brake to stop for a red light, car cut in front of him, the computer disregarded the driver and panic stopped the rig. Suppose the road was icy ? In the ditch ? Cross the centreline into oncoming traffic ? Insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Thailand is way ahead. There are driverless cars already. Just look next time you are in traffic. I guarantee you will see a car with no evidence of a driver being visible from behind.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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