Brunolem Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I don't think that we will see driverless cars in Thailand in our lifetime, that is, unless we are less than 10 year old...but then kids are probably not posting on this website. Having said that, there is a lot of talk and hype surrounding these still mythical creatures. While I am driving, I sometime think about diverse issues, wondering how they could be delt with a driverless car. Here are some examples, among many: - driving a little below the speed limit, say 110 km/h, a car gets stuck behind someone driving at, say, 100 km/h...in order to overtake this slower driver safely, the faster car has to go over the speed limit for a short while - on the side of the road, a hitchiker is raising his thumb, then a few kilometers further a policeman is raising his hand - in the rearview mirror one can see an ambulance with its lights on - after a big rain, the left lane of a two lane road is covered with deep pools of water, while the right lane is not so wet (or the opposite) - after a red light turns green, the car in the front doen't start, or can't start - at some traffic lights, turning right (or left) while the light is red is authorized, while at others it is not - at an intersection with no clear priorities, there are cars coming from all sides - a reckless driver is overtaking my car even though another car is coming at full speed in the opposite direction...if I was in charge I would slow down to make space in front of me for the reckless driver ...and don't mention the erratic local motorbike rider who has a sudden impulse to cross the road while a car is overtaking him... How would a driverless car deal with such situations? All this to say that, beside the basic and rather simple driving rules, a driver is constantly confronted with situations that require decisions that have nothing to do with rules and can't be put into equations, or algoritms for that matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben2talk Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I'd say it's fully possible to start limited implementation - starting with controlled environments (initially expressways) and driver aids and slowly increasing reliance on them as we find them to be more reliable... Take a look - we already have many automatic features. Surely it wouldn't be a big jump to help driverless cars deal with ambulances - the 'hard shoulder' would certainly not be filled with idiots needing to go faster than a car doing 110km/h in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenslegs Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 51 minutes ago, Brunolem said: How would a driverless car deal with such situations? Couldn't do much worse than many of our local drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 They could only ever work if all vehicles on the road where driverless so as to eliminate the "human error" factorThe computers can and will follow set instructions humans just do what they want/think is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Thailand is already a hub of "brakeless" vehicles thats why they all zoom around at top speed and often "fall off" the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Brunolem said: that is, unless we are less than 10 year old...but then kids are probably not posting on this website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 hours ago, johng said: They could only ever work if all vehicles on the road where driverless so as to eliminate the "human error" factor The computers can and will follow set instructions humans just do what they want/think is best. I agree with that, but of course it is highly unlikely. What will happen is a few driverless cars lost among lots of old fashioned cars with their unpredictable drivers. We certainly already have many automated machines, but they are all confined to repetitive tasks...they don't have to constantly adapt to human unpredictibilty. Even a supercomputer playing chess only has to deal with a finite set of possibilities, whereas on the road the possibilities are infinite and rarely follow a predictable pattern. Another example: a police checking point...some cars are stopped, the driver has to open his window and show his licence, while other cars are invited to go on without stopping...this small theater is based on purely human behavior, between people communicating by means of subtle signs...a hand flipped along the leg of the policeman to let the following driver know that he can go on... Automated machines are not very good at interpreting human signs. Sometimes, it is even difficult for humans themselves...I remember once in Arizona, I thought the cop was letting me go while in fact he wanted me to stop...I was lucky not to be shot at and escaped with a fullmouthed dressing down that no driverless car would understand... Better be 100% sure that the car will interpret correctly what the cops want...otherwise the passengers may end up riddled with bullets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxpwzrd Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 For now, Thailand just has to make do with its mindless drivers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebyrd Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Some would say cars in Thailand are already driverless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomfiddler Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Surely this is the country that would benefit the most from such a transition ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Judging by the skills of most of the drivers here in Thailand a driverless car would be a vast improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazes Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Thailand is the absolutely perfect place to test driverless cars. If a driverless car could survive a trip from Bkk to Korat unscathed, complete with speeded-up videos of the journey, the car would be hailed in advertising as the car that survived the roads with the worst fatalities in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben2talk Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, johng said: They could only ever work if all vehicles on the road where driverless so as to eliminate the "human error" factor The computers can and will follow set instructions humans just do what they want/think is best. Actually not - artificial intelligence means cars learn to drive better, avoid previous errors, and adapt. They don't play with mobiles either. The fact is that very soon, even a BAD driverless car will be better than 90% of humans. I'd like to see (fairly soon) compulsory auto-pilot on most expressways. Imagine driver-less trucks travelling 80 in one lane with 3 second gaps between them. It's mostly boring and pointless driving - the only interest is when there are hazards or interesting views sometimes... otherwise it's just a good time to go to sleep or play a game of 'snap' with the kids. Edited June 28, 2017 by ben2talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 cars have 6 levels of automation. level zero is what we have mostly now and level 5 is one with no steering wheel. they will slowly introduce cars of different levels as the technology becomes more advanced. there are already cars driving on the roads fully autonomous learning to build algorithms that will improve the software in the upcoming cars. these cars have already traveled millions of kms, with a human backup onboard. technology is moving at an amazing rate and i would expect to see level 5 cars within 15 or 20 years. the slowest part will be the law allowing them to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMuhummad Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I think you're over simplifying it. All of these issues can and do happen in anywhere, not just Thailand. A CPU, radar, cameras and the like are far better at judging speed, distance, closing velocity and cycling through all possibilities much better than the human brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csabo Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 They cornered the market on Brainless drivers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Croc Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Many driverless cars are on the roads around the world, now. Obviously not in general use, but in the evaluation stage. Most car manufacturers have set targets for production of commercial sales for these vehicles. They may become common even in my lifetime. http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=384 Several large iron ore mines in Western Australia have been using automated dump trucks for nearly two years with great success in productivity and improved safety records. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-18/rio-tinto-opens-worlds-first-automated-mine/6863814 This is not a scifi dream, but about to become a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Old Croc said: Many driverless cars are on the roads around the world, now. Obviously not in general use, but in the evaluation stage. Most car manufacturers have set targets for production of commercial sales for these vehicles. They may become common even in my lifetime. http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=384 Several large iron ore mines in Western Australia have been using automated dump trucks for nearly two years with great success in productivity and improved safety records. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-18/rio-tinto-opens-worlds-first-automated-mine/6863814 This is not a scifi dream, but about to become a reality. Yet reality could be a scifi nightmare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Driverless cars in Thailand will never go anywhere as they'll always be stopping for scooters pulling out from sidestreets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, MadMuhummad said: I think you're over simplifying it. All of these issues can and do happen in anywhere, not just Thailand. A CPU, radar, cameras and the like are far better at judging speed, distance, closing velocity and cycling through all possibilities much better than the human brain. I am not sure who you are referring to??? If you mean my examples above, of course these situations can happen everywhere, and yes machines are better at judging the things you mention than the human brain. Yet, driving is specific in the sense that there are the road rules, and there are multiple exceptions. What I mean if that a driver follows the rules to the letter, he may never arrive to destination, or way later than expected. Examples are infinite...there is a tractor in front of me, moving at 20 per hour, but there is also a yellow line...if I don't cross the yellow line, I am stuck for hours...as a human I decide to cross the yellow line when I estimate it is safe enough... How does one program a driverless car to follow the road rules, yet not to follow them in certain circumstances? How does one program a driverless car to stay on the right lane, even though it should be on the left lane, because the latter is full of potholes, or is slippery after a rain shower? And so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I've been thinking about same as OP. Where it might be possible other places in the World, within environment with firm rules and reliable traffic – however, I recall some of the tests in USA did not perform that convincing – it's hard to imagine how to cope with the Thai-way-of-driving, not to forget the Thai-way-of-thinking. Well, I'm living at Koh Samui, famous, or infamous, for it's driving culture – said to be the most dangerous traffic in the World (only quoting what have been said public) – so perhaps other areas in Thailand are not similar difficult. But I could however see quite some benefits with driverless taxi-cabs, always accepting the required trip and drive direct from A-to-B, and where the meter is also fully automatic switched on... By the way, what about driverless motorbikes..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4Jazz Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 There would be gridlock in parts of Bangkok as people would just walk out in front of cars to cross the road. Similar would happen overtaking, drivers would force them to stop, or cut them up in traffic. Some have not performed that well, there was 1 fatal crash in the USA, seems the sensor mistook a white truck for a cloud and drove straight into it. Another crash because sensor was not working because of a bit of dirt on the camera lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 31 minutes ago, B4Jazz said: There would be gridlock in parts of Bangkok as people would just walk out in front of cars to cross the road. Similar would happen overtaking, drivers would force them to stop, or cut them up in traffic. Some have not performed that well, there was 1 fatal crash in the USA, seems the sensor mistook a white truck for a cloud and drove straight into it. Another crash because sensor was not working because of a bit of dirt on the camera lens. Good one with the white truck and the cloud! I hadn't thought about a sensor malfunction, but one can already imagine the disasters this could lead to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, khunPer said: I've been thinking about same as OP. Where it might be possible other places in the World, within environment with firm rules and reliable traffic – however, I recall some of the tests in USA did not perform that convincing – it's hard to imagine how to cope with the Thai-way-of-driving, not to forget the Thai-way-of-thinking. Well, I'm living at Koh Samui, famous, or infamous, for it's driving culture – said to be the most dangerous traffic in the World (only quoting what have been said public) – so perhaps other areas in Thailand are not similar difficult. But I could however see quite some benefits with driverless taxi-cabs, always accepting the required trip and drive direct from A-to-B, and where the meter is also fully automatic switched on... By the way, what about driverless motorbikes..? Many motorbikes become driverless as soon as they are hit by a pick-up truck...the progress would be to see these motorbikes keep on going to their destination by themselves after having shed their driver-rider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moti24 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 "I don't think that we will see driverless cars in Thailand in our lifetime....." I don't know! Some of the cars being driven on the road now makes it hard to believe there can be any driver behind the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 On 6/27/2017 at 2:32 PM, johng said: They could only ever work if all vehicles on the road where driverless so as to eliminate the "human error" factor The computers can and will follow set instructions humans just do what they want/think is best. Correct. Look at the big picture. 100% driverless vehicles are all part of the world of the future. It will be justified by using the arguments of the OP to make the case that humans are too dangerous to be allowed to drive any more. All part of the nanny society that is regulating all the fun out of life already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Brunolem said: Good one with the white truck and the cloud! I hadn't thought about a sensor malfunction, but one can already imagine the disasters this could lead to. I think we should be far more worried about them being hacked. Same reason I don't want drones being used for deliveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Brunolem said: How does one program a driverless car to stay on the right lane, even though it should be on the left lane, because the latter is full of potholes, or is slippery after a rain shower? And so on... That's irrelevant to the boffins that dream up these things because IMO they apparently live in a bubble and rarely visit the world most of us live in. In their world, potholes probably don't exist, and neither do people walk out into traffic without looking as they are want to do in rural Thailand. However, AI will know what potholes look like and what the effect of driving through them does to the passengers. The danger is that greed will make them bring in driverless cars before AI is cheap enough to put in every car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I'd rather take my chances driving on the road with driverless cars as opposed to the average Thai drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamBeast Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Considering that this is Thailand, I'd trust driverless cars more than cars driven by Thais. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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