Marraige - Amphoe NOT Requiring Passport Translated and MFA-stamped?

[JackThompson]

Does anyone know of an Amphoe in Thailand which will marry a USA-citizen (man / me) and a Thai lady without an MFA/Embassy certified copy of my passport?  

 

I am trying to avoid this new rule, because ... The MFA requires one's permission-of-stay has at least 15 days remaining or they will not do the certification.  No more Express Service at the MFA.  My embassy requires appointments and travel to Bangkok.  Future appointment-dates available would require another Visa-Run to get enough "buffer" to get past the MFA's "time remaining on permission of stay" rule.

 

Note that my "Affirmation to Marry" (certified by the MFA) has all my Passport-Page info on it, including the number.  They know it is "me" - because the MFA certified doc matches my passport, including the number, which they have in their hand - and my embassy would not have affirmed anything without me showing them a valid passport. 

 

If the Amphoe simply wants a "tip" - no problem - I'll pay.  But, so far, I have had no luck asking, "If there is some way we can do this today."  Answer: "No, sorry."   I am not sure how much further I can go in offering a bonus for service without crossing a line. 

 

I live in the Pattaya-area, but we are willing go anywhere within 6 hours or so - maybe even fly, if assured of results.  Ideally,  I can also purchase witnesses on-site, since I would otherwise need to transport 2 friends of my GF to the location.

 

Background:

According to threads up through last-year, marriage was easy to do - not anymore.  Every amphoe makes up it's own rules, and we have been to several, already.  Reasons for refusal so-far:

• Several refused us because the USA-Embassy's "Affirmation to Marry" document has a clause that says, basically, "We don't guarantee any of this to be true" (thanks for adding that to your doc, USA) 
• Several more (most) refused us because we don't live in their amphoe-area.  "Why you don't go to Banglamung?"
• Several more wanted an "interpeter" - some saying an hour+ long interrogation of us, separately, would be needed, so gf cannot translate my answers (so they can compare our answers to questions?)
• The latest roadblock is a new rule at some amphoes that one must have an MFA certified translation of one's passport info-page - which, in turn, requires that my Embassy certify/stamp a copy of it.

[JackThompson]

For anyone finding this in the future, just note that almost all the info you find on marriage in Thailand is outdated/wrong.  What is missing is:

• Get a certified copy of your passport done via your embassy and MFA before beginning the process, in addition to the certified "affirmation of freedom to marry" document.
• There is no 'express service' at the MFA (or maybe some times, in some cases - but I could not get it at any price - so do not plan on it)
• The MFA will not accept a document to certify unless you have 15 days left on your current permission of stay (some say 10-days can-do it).  You must include a copy of your most recent permission-of-stay stamp with the application - even when using an agent/translator.
• Many amphoes will not help you, unless you live in their amphoe.
• Many amphoes have a director (or whatever the title is for the head-person) who seem to not 'approve of' mixed (Thai/Farang) marriages, and will throw up roadblocks which cannot be overcome with any amount of certified documents.

My solution, in the end, was to hire a "marriage fixer" for a price - but not significantly more than another visa-run and another cycle of embassy-certification ($50 USA) + Translation/MFA-Certification of a materially-redundant document.  For under 10K Baht, the fixer will do all translations, get witnesses set-up, and provide an interpreter to handle questions you must answer (they will ask many questions to ascertain if it is not a sham-marriage), and fill out all paperwork/application-forms. 

 

Note that other applicants without a fixer were there before me in the morning, and still there waiting for service in the afternoon when we were done.  As-is, it still took hours - not the "15 minutes" you will find in many accounts from previous years.  I will not reveal the fixer or amphoe, but you can find a fixer easily through the many translators within a KM-radius of the PhloenChit BTS station in Bangkok. 

 

Lastly, note that everything I provided and swore-to was true and correct.  My fixer required I provide significant personal-info - to verify my identity, income, etc - before they would agree to assist.  Their service was merely to save time and run-arounds - to overcome unreasonable roadblocks having nothing to do with verifying my true-identity or the validity of my long-term relationship with my fiancee. 

[stoicccc]

Thanks a lot for this, I wish this would have been available a week ago. Going through the hurdles now myself.

 

Certified copy of passport indeed needed, something that is not mentioned in many places.

 

Going to get married in Bang Lamung next week, should I expect dozens of questions and if so, what kind? Not that anything to hide but would be cool to be prepared anyway.

[kbelyeu]

2 hours ago, stoicccc said:

Thanks a lot for this, I wish this would have been available a week ago. Going through the hurdles now myself.

 

Certified copy of passport indeed needed, something that is not mentioned in many places.

 

Going to get married in Bang Lamung next week, should I expect dozens of questions and if so, what kind? Not that anything to hide but would be cool to be prepared anyway.

We had all our documents handled by the lady that worked at the Banglamung Amphore.  We paid a little bit extra and she performed the translations and sent the documents off to the MFA.  Very easy process.

 

Kurt

[Mansell]

Asking the US Embassy to notarize a Thai version of your passport isn't going to happen....they only do this for English documents. I found this out twelve days ago in BKK. We were getting a divorce and went to the Thai Consuler Office in BKK. The English speaking lady there told us that each amphur seemed to make their own rules. So we went to the closest amphur and pretty much insisted they give us a divorce. They used all the documents we gave them including the translation of my passport. They charged us 400 baht including 300 baht for the two witnesses we never ever saw or met.....laughable! But eventually after around three hours we were done. There was ten pages in the end, which was nothing compared to the sixteen pages when I bought my Kawasaki......where do they store all this paper? I think they own another country to store it all......also laughable!

[thaibeachlovers]

I had a great deal of difficulty getting the documents done for my marriage. I thought at the time it was a "sign" and will regret evermore that I did not take warning and not proceed. I'd be happier, wealthier and living in Thailand till I died instead of having to go back to the cold place.

Marriage is all for their benefit and none for the farang, IMO.

[kbelyeu]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:17 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I had a great deal of difficulty getting the documents done for my marriage. I thought at the time it was a "sign" and will regret evermore that I did not take warning and not proceed. I'd be happier, wealthier and living in Thailand till I died instead of having to go back to the cold place.

Marriage is all for their benefit and none for the farang, IMO.

 

I'm sorry to hear that.. we just celebrated our 2nd year of marriage with many more to come.

 

Kurt

 

[swissie]

On 12.8.2017 at 7:17 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I had a great deal of difficulty getting the documents done for my marriage. I thought at the time it was a "sign" and will regret evermore that I did not take warning and not proceed. I'd be happier, wealthier and living in Thailand till I died instead of having to go back to the cold place.

Marriage is all for their benefit and none for the farang, IMO.

The Thai-Guys working at the Amphoes are getting more and more Farang friendly.
By making it ever more cumbersome for a Farang to marry a Thai, they may have the well-being of the Farang at hearth. Trying to keep him out of harms way in the future.

I am waiting for the time, when the guys at the Amphoe will be distributing flyers to the Farang-grooms, reading like this:

- " Dear Farang, just marry the lady by way of a Buddhist-Ceremony. In case of "very much love", you can always set up a last will, leaving everything to the lady. By marrying the lady "officially", will not produce any tangible benefits for you, nor will it improve your quality of life in Thailand."

On top of the flyer, Farang-groom will be given a free T-Shirt with the same text.

Of course, another proposal would be: "Unless Farang-groom and Thai-bride have not lived together continuously (under the same roof) for the duration of at least 2 years, official marriages are not allowed."
Cheers.

[tstcman]

Just a heads up I just did the marriage process here in Chiang Mai from The Unofficial wedding all the way to the official flowery certificate took me a long time about a month to get all the stuff but as far as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs goes in Chiang Mai they do the express service. I know this because I asked when I got there at 8:30 in the morning when they opened they told me it was eight hundred bucks for two documents come back after 2 p.m. and that's what I did and everything went smoothly. This is as of August 2017

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tstcman]

Baht not bucks

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[johng]

I am waiting for the time, when the guys at the Amphoe will be distributing flyers to the Farang-grooms, reading like this:

[swissie]

8 hours ago, johng said:

 

 

Hilarious! Far better than flyers. Cheers.

[GinBoy2]

On 7/4/2017 at 8:57 AM, Mansell said:

Asking the US Embassy to notarize a Thai version of your passport isn't going to happen....they only do this for English documents. I found this out twelve days ago in BKK. We were getting a divorce and went to the Thai Consuler Office in BKK. The English speaking lady there told us that each amphur seemed to make their own rules. So we went to the closest amphur and pretty much insisted they give us a divorce. They used all the documents we gave them including the translation of my passport. They charged us 400 baht including 300 baht for the two witnesses we never ever saw or met.....laughable! But eventually after around three hours we were done. There was ten pages in the end, which was nothing compared to the sixteen pages when I bought my Kawasaki......where do they store all this paper? I think they own another country to store it all......also laughable!

Actually to add to this.

The US embassy will not notarize any US issued document. If you need a certified copy of your passport, it can only be done through the State Dept. in DC.

I ran into this problem, resorted to the tried and trusted technique of ฿1000 to the guy at the amphur

[kbelyeu]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Actually to add to this.

The US embassy will not notarize any US issued document. If you need a certified copy of your passport, it can only be done through the State Dept. in DC.

I ran into this problem, resorted to the tried and trusted technique of ฿1000 to the guy at the amphur

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

[GinBoy2]

8 hours ago, kbelyeu said:

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

However, this is where you run into problems as I discovered when I got to the embassy...

 

U.S. Consular Officers overseas are not empowered to authenticate public documents that were issued in the United States because they do not have access to the records of the issuing offices or the seals of the custodians of these records. Such documents include vital records (birth, marriage, death, and divorce), as well as academic, commercial, or other credentials. We can notarize a sworn affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for U.S. Embassy “certification.”  Please confirm with the end recipient in advance.

 

I tried the sworn affidavit, that didn't cut it with MFA, thats when I headed down the 'coffee money' route

[JackThompson]

 

On 8/28/2017 at 7:23 PM, GinBoy2 said:

Actually to add to this.

The US embassy will not notarize any US issued document. If you need a certified copy of your passport, it can only be done through the State Dept. in DC.

I ran into this problem, resorted to the tried and trusted technique of ฿1000 to the guy at the amphur

I thought this included copies of one's passport, until a translator showed me an embassy-certified copy of a US-Passport, complete with MFA seal verifying the consular-signature. 

 

Note that even the "affidavit to marry" is not "certified true" by the US-Embassy - only certified that you swore it was true in front of a consular-officer.  Some amphoes are using this as an excuse not to allow any Americans to marry Thais. 

 

You are fortunate to find an amphoe willing to accept such a small financial compensation for allowing what some seen to view as the denigration of a Thai, by marring a farang.

[JackThompson]

On 8/15/2017 at 9:57 PM, swissie said:

By making it ever more cumbersome for a Farang to marry a Thai, they may have the well-being of the Farang at hearth. Trying to keep him out of harms way in the future.

I am waiting for the time, when the guys at the Amphoe will be distributing flyers to the Farang-grooms, reading like this:

- " Dear Farang, just marry the lady by way of a Buddhist-Ceremony.

Isn't that the service where sin-sod is part of the equation?  A favor to whom?  Her father's bartender? 

Lesson #1 for foreigners in Thailand - don't bring money to Thailand you cannot be prepared to lose.  Being married does not change this equation.  Unless you become a Thai citizen or PR, all you will ever be here is a temporary-guest, asking every year for permission to stay one more year.  Even with PR, forget a re-entry permit or stay out more than a year - like magic - "poof," you are returning on a visa-exempt for 30-days permitted-stay.

 

On 8/15/2017 at 9:57 PM, swissie said:

Of course, another proposal would be: "Unless Farang-groom and Thai-bride have not lived together continuously (under the same roof) for the duration of at least 2 years, official marriages are not allowed."

We have been doing so for closer to 4 years - no harm done that I can tell, by getting married.  Two years is not a bad number, but that is becoming more and more difficult to accomplish, due to immigration issues, for those under 50.  Maybe that is one reason why the immigration-issues have cropped up?