Ubon Joe - Advice please help?

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, bbi1 said:

I was always under the impression from previous readings on this forum when immigration finds someone who's overstayed, they will lock them up. Is it common that immigration officers just let people go who's overstayed?

Many (actually most) immigration officials are not inclined to give anyone a hard time if they can avoid it. They are certainly allowed to arrest someone on overstay. However, more often than not, they will (as here) point out the problem and tell you to sort it out immediately. Most Thais really are nice people.

[Speedo1968]

Not sure if this may help.

Please read all of it carefully and do not hesitate to ask if he has any questions.

 

I have assumed he is a UK national holding a UK passport.

 

If he decides to return to the UK and is, as stated, 60yrs old and unwell.

Depending on where he lived in the UK and the type of housing he had, i.e. own or council.

If the latter depending on what reason he gave for giving up his house.

If he was not / is not on State Benefits.

If he does not own property.

If he had spent time in one County of the UK and has family ties there ( or elsewhere in the UK ), 

is registered with a local GP, has any proof or previous residence in the County, holds membership

of a local club etc, has funds of under 16K sterling.

He may be able to apply for emergency housing then local authority housing.

 

If he decides to pay the fine and return alone to the UK and can meet the above criteria he may be lucky enough

to get local authority help.

He should return to his previous / last county of residence and find a Bed & Breakfast place to stay, not cheap this time of year,

even crash with friends if possible.

He should asap after arrival in the UK go to his previous area of residence and go to the Citizens Advice Bureau ( CAB ).

When going to the CAB take as much evidence as he can find regarding his previous circumstances, P45, Tax forms,

evidence of illness etc.   I DO MEAN as much evidence as possible to make his case.   DO NOT try to bluff with untrue stories.

If he had not made his intention to leave the UK for good ( although if married to a Thai ? ! ), he maybe able to get

emergency housing assistance.    

Follow the advice given by the CAB.

ASAP apply to the local council for housing, if ill he may get warden controlled or sheltered housing.   This would be useful if he has had a TIA or stroke as the housing has emergency pull cord in every room.

Do not take it for granted that he will get accommodation, I am sure he knows well enough the situation in the UK.

 

[Speedo1968]

On 7/6/2017 at 9:19 AM, cliveshep said:

Ok everyone and UbonJoe, thanks for the input. We are feeling very sad for our friend who has stupidly and quite unintentionally got himself into a major fix. He is living on savings and what his wife earns as he cannot yet claim his pension so if he got deported he would be homeless and without means of support.

 

My wife has suggested that as he lives in Korat he could perhaps go to Laos for a year and re-apply for a visa there based on marriage if it came to it, because Laos is cheap, and his wife could either stay with him or visit easily. Not ideal but better than the expensive UK where he has no family to help him.

 

The other alternative is a fixer and lawyer. He wouldn't have a clue, and neither do we so please, if anyone knows of someone would you please pm me any information you have?

 

Thanks guys - "there but for the grace of God" etc.

Have replied to your initial posting earlier today.

Just picking up on a point in this posting, he will not be classed as homeless if he has 16,000gbp or more in savings.

Same if he owns property in the UK.

He will probably be seen as making himself homeless when he left the UK and because of leaving his 'home' in Thailand, although the latter maybe seen as extenuating circumstances. 

He will not be entitled to social security payments.

He is only 60 now, depending on his type of pension he may not receive anything until he is 67 / 8.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, Speedo1968 said:

16,000gbp or more in savings.

Unfortunately he is going to need more than that if his wife is coming with him to the UK for a year, the only UK visa that would allow that is a Settlement one.

A visit visa would allow a max. of 6 months and that is all she would be allowed to get and stay for for that year.

If they want to be together for the duration of the ban, then they need to look at the alternatives closer to here again.

[Speedo1968]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

Unfortunately he is going to need more than that if his wife is coming with him to the UK for a year, the only UK visa that would allow that is a Settlement one.

A visit visa would allow a max. of 6 months and that is all she would be allowed to get and stay for for that year.

If they want to be together for the duration of the ban, then they need to look at the alternatives closer to here again.

Thanks 'Mattd' yes I understand this, my posting was based on that the person concerned returned to the UK alone.

I also based on the person being a resident of the UK in all aspects.

[paz]

On 7/7/2017 at 6:39 AM, Speedo1968 said:

Not sure if this may help.

Please read all of it carefully and do not hesitate to ask if he has any questions.

 

I have assumed he is a UK national holding a UK passport.

 

If he decides to return to the UK and is, as stated, 60yrs old and unwell.

Depending on where he lived in the UK and the type of housing he had, i.e. own or council.

If the latter depending on what reason he gave for giving up his house.

...

 

Never in this forum I've read so much  fictitious/irrelevant blabbing about UK  laws or UK subjects and so.

 

Nowhere the the OP has mentioned that they guy has any issue with his situation/property/benefits in the home country, so why drifting to a domestic benefit issue?

 

However, since the thread has been hijacked already, I have a suggestion for any British subject that does not feel like going back to the Kingdom for a while, he/she can fly anywhere in the EU, with a spouse or any family member (nationality, income, or abilities do NOT matter),a nd live there starting from 500 quids a month, that includes health care. Then, if in  2 or 3 years this privilege will go away because of the decision of a slim majority,, that's not anything an individual should care about when going after his/her present rights.

[IMA_FARANG]

Overstay and failure to do 90 day reports are two different things.

Actual overstay is not leaving Thailand when your visa has expired and the fine for that can be 500 Baht per day, usually up to a 20K Baht maximum and a person may be banned from re-entering Thailand for actual overstay depending on how long the overstay is.

 

Not reporting for 90 day reports if required Is a different situation from actual overstay and may result in a fine of 200 Baht a day for non reporting, usually up to a 2000 Baht maximum but possibly a fine of 5000 Baht may be made if the failure to report is determined to be deliberate and repeated.

As far as I know, and I may be wrong, no one has ever been deported for failure to do required 90 day reporting.

That is the difference between actual overstay and failure to do 90 day reporting.

 

 

 

[perthperson]

1 hour ago, IMA_FARANG said:

 

Not reporting for 90 day reports if required Is a different situation from actual overstay and may result in a fine of 200 Baht a day for non reporting, usually up to a 2000 Baht maximum

 

Where did you get this inaccurate information from? 

[Dene16]

15 hours ago, paz said:

Nowhere the the OP has mentioned that they guy has any issue with his situation/property/benefits in the home country, so why drifting to a domestic benefit issue?

I think you have missed a few key points mentioned in that if he was deported he would be homeless in the UK and without any means of support

It is also apparent that he wishes to stay with his wife under any circumstances (you also have to assume he was going to return to the UK for another visa and return immediately or obtain one in Thailand) 

Although it does not mention the extent of his savings it does say that he also relies on her earnings as well

From this information one can only assume that his savings are limited but enough to allow him to survive until his pension comes into force (unlikely he will have a private pension of any worth since he was working as a chippie and is very worried about his situation)

wherever he moves  his wife will lose her income and the UK is not an option as savings alone  will not allow her access to the UK under a settlement visa (Quote. he would be homeless in the UK and without any means of support )

If as you mention it was possible to stay in another EU country  would he he have the funds to finance that?

With the limited information at hand it is impossible to give a clear answer to his predicament.

[anon789561]

On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 7:46 PM, paz said:

 

Never in this forum I've read so much  fictitious/irrelevant blabbing about UK  laws or UK subjects and so.

 

Nowhere the the OP has mentioned that they guy has any issue with his situation/property/benefits in the home country, so why drifting to a domestic benefit issue?

 

However, since the thread has been hijacked already, I have a suggestion for any British subject that does not feel like going back to the Kingdom for a while, he/she can fly anywhere in the EU, with a spouse or any family member (nationality, income, or abilities do NOT matter),a nd live there starting from 500 quids a month, that includes health care. Then, if in  2 or 3 years this privilege will go away because of the decision of a slim majority,, that's not anything an individual should care about when going after his/her present rights.

not sure you've actually even read the OP before accusing everyone else of fictitious/irrelevant babbling. Now you mention it I think your right. Yes OP. Tell your mate to rock on up to Madrid Airport or any other EU airport with his thai wife(oops can't get a visa) say 'I'm a British Subject' and they'll welcome you with open arms, give you both a full health check, the keys to your new house and a nice new wallet to keep your free monthly income in. Be serious. Think the irrelevant/fictitious babblings you mention will be of much more use to him. The guys British, not Syrian!

[anon789561]

Any update from the OP on what happened to your mate would be interesting to hear? I hope he is ok and managed to sort something that he and his mrs can live with

[anon789561]

not sure if this can be shared but i'll put it out there anyway. there is a certain well known daily visa run service leaving from On nut that could have apparently sorted the OP mates problem out for 40k all in, inc bus, fine and walking back with no blacklist. I am not endorsing it and don't know whether this is 'over the table' or under. just putting it out there in case anyone knew of someone in a similar situation felt the need to call that operator to find out

[cliveshep]

Right - he is going back to the UK. This week if he can get a ticket. His wife is staying behind to care for her mother who has just come out of hospital and is quite poorly.

 

I think, not sure but think, that his wife is in any event a naturalised British subject so probably has right of abode anyway should she choose to go to the UK.

 

I have discussed his case with his former employer, a friend of mine with whom I had a 20 year relationship as a consultant, and a job will be waiting for him. I have also got him to talk to a mutual friend who will probably give him a home and  bed until such time as he is able to sort himself out.

 

It is not ideal BUT it is legal and one advantage is it will increase his State Pension slightly with another year's contributions. He might also be able to top it up with any missing payments.

 

So thank you all for your, sometimes very sage advice, I appreciate it. I passed all of it on to him to read, and his wife chose for him - "You're going to UK, no argument, sort it out, come back and stay". She may or may not be able to join him.

 

Meanwhile I have bullied him without mercy because everything he did wrong or did not do this last time I told him about last January having already experienced it and learnt from all you guys on here. Even so I am glad I had a multi-entry visa based on marriage because one thing I did not find out until I was here was the need for Apostille marriage and birth certificates to be sent to the Royal Thai Embassy in London (this is for us Brits only) for stamping before bringing here to be translated and legalised. Not doing so was an expensive mistake for me, involving a visa run to Changi while waiting for papers to come. Having those plus a passport copy from the British Embassy in Bangkok translated and legalised along with all pages in my passport also permitted me to get a Tabien Baan and an I.D card.

[cliveshep]

Update:

 

My friend has finally made it back to the UK. He was fined 20,000 baht at Suvarnabhumi Airport and was given a "Red stamp with a large 1 in it" in his passport plus a form in Thai he doesn't understand.

 

We assume that is the one year ban stamp.

Edited July 29, 2017 by cliveshep

[CharlieH]

Might be a help to scan and post the form (blur out any personal detail).

[anon789561]

oh well. at least he's got a job and hopefully somewhere to stay. i'd assume it's a one year ban. not sure if he can try to get that ban waived somehow reduced when back in the uk, by basically pleading stupidity at the thai embassy in London??. ubonjoe might know

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, Happy enough said:

oh well. at least he's got a job and hopefully somewhere to stay. i'd assume it's a one year ban. not sure if he can try to get that ban waived somehow reduced when back in the uk, by basically pleading stupidity at the thai embassy in London??. ubonjoe might know

Nothing can be done at at the embassy. It is an immigration action so any appeal would have to be done to them.

[cliveshep]

Regarding the form immigration gave him - right now he is so fed up he doesn't want to talk about it. If he relents later on I'll post it.

 

Remember, he's gone from being a married man in a lovely house to a single man ejected to another country, separated from his wife, living in a borrowed room and who has to work again.

 

Not a nice thing to happen to anyone.

Edited July 30, 2017 by cliveshep

[jeab1980]

18 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Regarding the form immigration gave him - right now he is so fed up he doesn't want to talk about it. If he relents later on I'll post it.

 

Remember, he's gone from being a married man in a lovely house to a single man ejected to another country, separated from his wife, living in a borrowed room and who has to work again.

 

Not a nice thing to happen to anyone.

Thats life im afraid. Can happen to anyone. Ejected hardly! Banned beacuse of something that in the end was his fault.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, cliveshep said:

Regarding the form immigration gave him - right now he is so fed up he doesn't want to talk about it. If he relents later on I'll post it.

 

Remember, he's gone from being a married man in a lovely house to a single man ejected to another country, separated from his wife, living in a borrowed room and who has to work again.

 

Not a nice thing to happen to anyone.

I cannot fathom why he chose work in the UK, far from his wife, over staying retired in Cambodia - maybe with a bit of English-teaching part-time to cover expenses.  That border to Thailand might still seem like prison-bars, but at least he could have had frequent conjugal visits.

[chickenslegs]

2 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Regarding the form immigration gave him - right now he is so fed up he doesn't want to talk about it. If he relents later on I'll post it.

 

Remember, he's gone from being a married man in a lovely house to a single man ejected to another country, separated from his wife, living in a borrowed room and who has to work again.

 

Not a nice thing to happen to anyone.

On the positive side - he has at least a couple of very good friends.

 

Kudos to you Clive.

[Tanoshi]

33 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I cannot fathom why he chose work in the UK, far from his wife, over staying retired in Cambodia - maybe with a bit of English-teaching part-time to cover expenses.  That border to Thailand might still seem like prison-bars, but at least he could have had frequent conjugal visits.

Financial pressure?

 

At least in the UK he could qualify for financial assistance, which wouldn't be available anywhere in Asia.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Regarding the form immigration gave him - right now he is so fed up he doesn't want to talk about it. If he relents later on I'll post it.

 

Remember, he's gone from being a married man in a lovely house to a single man ejected to another country, separated from his wife, living in a borrowed room and who has to work again.

 

Not a nice thing to happen to anyone.

I assume Clive, that on his return and obtaining another Non Imm O ME based on marriage, he is now aware he has to cross and re-enter at a border every 90 days. Is he aware of the option and criteria to obtain an extension based on marriage as an alternative.

[paz]

On 7/11/2017 at 7:16 AM, Happy enough said:

The guys British, not Syrian!

For as long the UK is part of the EU, a spouse has a right to stay with no visa and no conditions, no matter port of entry in EU. UK courts have been bashed for breaching this basic human right by superior EU courts, repeatedly on the subject. That will  surely change, but it hasn't yet.