Ubon Joe - Advice please help?

[cliveshep]

My friend who is a bit daft at times has just called me in a panic asking for advice.  He came to Thailand 7 months back on a non-imm O based on marriage that was issued Nov 2016 and expires Nov 2017. He thought it meant he could stay for a year and not the 90 day period triggered on arrival at the border - in this case Suvarnabhumi  I don't know if it was multiple entry or not.

 

So today he and his Thai wife popped into his local immigration office, who weren't too impressed and pointed out he has a 4 months overstay past the 90 day period. They told him to go do a border run to Laos and pay the fine but also said he might well be arrested when he came back in. He's dead scared of that as he is an unwell 60 yr old. Whether or not he did 90 day reporting is another thing too - I don't know.

 

My gut feeling is to go cap in hand to Chan Wattana and ask them to help him resolve the problem, pay the fine and hope he doesn't get chucked out because his home is here and so are his family. A border run is one thing but it might not work too well and I am thinking that maybe at Lak Si they can help, even if it means a stiff fine.

 

What do you advise Joe - you know all about these things. I have to say this guy worked for me in the UK as a chippie,  so you'll get the picture - he is a gentle soul and a nice guy.

[paz]

If you want to ask Joe specifically and exclusively, why don't  you PM him directly?

 

Since you posted on a public forum, here's my public answer. I will welcome any correction and improvement by Joe or anyone knowledgeable.

 

As long the guy is not caught (apprehended) in overstay, he will not be arrested, will have to pay Bt. 20,000 fine, and let leave, preferably by air and to his country. meaning he will have to show up at the airport with ample time before his flight out. If he surrenders to any other immigration post detention and miserable time will happen.

By rule he will be banned to returning for one year,. That does not mean he would be arrested when returning, it means he will be refused entry, and sent back, by air, land or sea.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=418808

 

Of course, he's free to search a way to avoid the ban. I suggest that he searches for a good connection with immigration, and be prepared to pay some significant money. If he can't do that, he will have to just enjoy his box time away, with or without the Thai wife.

 

Incidentally, there are no reports yet of anyone having returned to Thailand after a ban for the rules above has expired.

Edited July 5, 2017 by paz

[BritTim]

As stated, since the overstay exceeds 90 days, normal procedure will blacklist him from entering Thailand for a year. There are supposedly fixers who can resolve these kinds of issues, and maybe some kind soul will drop you a PM with a suggestion. However,  unofficial solutions of that sort cannot be discussed on the public board.

[ubonjoe]

As said by others according to the rules for overstay that went into effect last year a overstay over 90 days results in a ban from entering the country for a year.

As their are arrangements that be made by getting a fixer or lawyer to help.

A common procedure is for a person to do  is to turn their self in for a short stay in the immigration detention center, go before a judge to plead their case. The judge can wave the one year ban and reduce the overstay fine. After that they will deported after they have a ticket out of the country.

[Tanoshi]

12 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Whether or not he did 90 day reporting is another thing too - I don't know.

He cannot make 90 day reports at an Immigration office.

He must leave the Country and re-enter every 90 days, to get another 90 day permission to stay.

[cliveshep]

Ok everyone and UbonJoe, thanks for the input. We are feeling very sad for our friend who has stupidly and quite unintentionally got himself into a major fix. He is living on savings and what his wife earns as he cannot yet claim his pension so if he got deported he would be homeless and without means of support.

 

My wife has suggested that as he lives in Korat he could perhaps go to Laos for a year and re-apply for a visa there based on marriage if it came to it, because Laos is cheap, and his wife could either stay with him or visit easily. Not ideal but better than the expensive UK where he has no family to help him.

 

The other alternative is a fixer and lawyer. He wouldn't have a clue, and neither do we so please, if anyone knows of someone would you please pm me any information you have?

 

Thanks guys - "there but for the grace of God" etc.

[Tanoshi]

A Fixer or a lawyer would cost money without any guarantees.

He's already 20,000 BHT out of pocket with the overstay fine.

 

Immigration now know his predicament and probably his address.

If arrested it's an automatic 5 year ban.

 

Personally I'd leave asap, pay the fine at the border and try to negotiate an 'oversight' fee to allow re-entry.

[JackThompson]

27 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

My wife has suggested that as he lives in Korat he could perhaps go to Laos for a year and re-apply for a visa there based on marriage if it came to it, because Laos is cheap, and his wife could either stay with him or visit easily. Not ideal but better than the expensive UK where he has no family to help him.

As it appears he cannot afford a very expensive 'fixer' solution, he would seem to have 2 choices - the first of which is what UJ suggested, going before a judge and pleading his case to maybe avoid the ban.  But that might also still require legal-representation - and in every country I know of, the 'quality' (outcome) of legal representation is based on connections/cost of the lawyer/firm.  Also - deportation means "flying back to your home country" - and, in this case, on a ticket purchased at last-minute prices.

 

On the 2nd option - staying out a year - Laos is not cheap, in my experience.  Cambodia can be very cheap - especially if he can he live without Air-Con, and buys his food at local markets and cooks at home.  Also, Laos does not issue 1-year visas for ~$360 USD, as Cambodia does (with no financial-proof, etc).   There are purportedly 'fixer' business-visas in Laos, but I do not know the cost. 
My experience living-cheap in Cambodia is in the Phnom Penh area - it may be harder to find cheap-digs close to the border, but if inquiring on social-media / Cambodian forums, someone married to a local should be able to arrange something. 
He could also teach English in Cambodia for some extra $$ - much easier to do legally in Cambodia than in Thailand - and the Cambodian kids really want to learn English, according to teachers I have spoken to who worked in both countries. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by JackThompson

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

My wife has suggested that as he lives in Korat he could perhaps go to Laos for a year and re-apply for a visa there based on marriage if it came to it, because Laos is cheap, and his wife could either stay with him or visit easily. Not ideal but better than the expensive UK where he has no family to help him.

Laos is not a good option. It is very hard to get a long stay visa there. Some people have to do border hops every 30 days to get a new visa on arrival. Cambodia would be a better choice.

21 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

The other alternative is a fixer and lawyer.

A choice might be Isaan Lawyers in Korat. http://www.thailawonline.com/en/ They might be able to arrange something with immigration. Certainly worth giving them a call.

[norfolkandchance]

Korat Immigration can be very helpful.

[cliveshep]

err, just HOW helpful norfolkandchance? You can answer THAT in a pm if it is easier.

[cliveshep]

Thanks UbonJoe, Cambodia seems to be cheap, but has no healthcare to speak of, is utterly corrupt from top to bottom. That from posts on the Cambodia forum here.

 

But I guess if he keeps his head down and finds a place somewhere quiet he might be ok. His choices are limited. A private suggestion mentioned elsewhere off forum suggests a "fixer" would solve the problem for 35k baht if he sends his passport, it'll come back clean with a 30 day visa. Fine if it actually works and his passport isn't sold on. I have no experience on such matters.

 

I've suggested he calls the lawyer you found and have a chat first.

[JackThompson]

37 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Cambodia seems to be cheap, but has no healthcare to speak of, is utterly corrupt from top to bottom.

I never had any problem with "corruption" while living in Cambodia.  You don't get "shaken down" for walking down the street.  If trying to run a business there, it might be another story. 

 

In an emergency situation with a serious condition (heart attack, etc) he would fare much better in Thailand than Cambodia - not sure what his insurance situation is, but would need that and/or cash anywhere.  If he has known health-issues, his options for "good healthcare" locales with low-overhead are limited. 

 

Malaysia is a choice with quality hospitals, but he could only stay there as a tourist for two 90-day stays (assuming his passport-country qualifies), before needing to move on. 

 

Maybe someone with experience in Vietnam can comment on the overhead-costs and healthcare situation there.  1-year Tourist Visas are available at low-cost for some nationalities; others can do perpetual visa-runs to Cambodia and back same-day, without any immigration-issues.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post has been removed.

[perthperson]

This chap does have a problem.  He would be best advised to make arrangements to pay the fine, accept the ban and fly out or as suggested refuse to pay the fine which will ensure a court appearance where the fine will likely be reduced but he will be deported +/- a ban. 

 

Attempt to find a "fixer" will be an expensive adventure with no guarantees of a good outcome. 

 

Doing nothing is not an option.

[cliveshep]

Thanks to all of you who offer advice. I copied it all to my friend whose wife has "decreed" (his word) that they go to the UK for a year. Quite where they'll live or indeed how they will live is up to them - you cannot help some people!

[Upnotover]

2 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Thanks to all of you who offer advice. I copied it all to my friend whose wife has "decreed" (his word) that they go to the UK for a year. Quite where they'll live or indeed how they will live is up to them - you cannot help some people!

I hope she already has a visa, it will be a very interesting application if not.

[JackThompson]

10 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Thanks to all of you who offer advice. I copied it all to my friend whose wife has "decreed" (his word) that they go to the UK for a year. Quite where they'll live or indeed how they will live is up to them - you cannot help some people!

She didn't want to spend a year in Cambodia?  I'm shocked  

When I suggested it, I thought he would be going alone.  If taking the lady, I'd explore Vietnam-options - better food, for sure.  Though she'd feel more at home in Laos - especially if she is from Issan - if only there were good visa-options for him.

 

But since he is headed to the UK for a year, I hope they have budgeted her new warm clothing, which will be needed soon.  Brrrrr.

[janhkt]

6 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

He cannot make 90 day reports at an Immigration office.

He must leave the Country and re-enter every 90 days, to get another 90 day permission to stay.

You're confusing 90 day reporting with extension of stay. 

 

90 day reporting IS done at the immigration office.

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, janhkt said:

 

90 day reporting IS done at the immigration office.

Only if one has an extension of stay or an O=A visa which allows stays of over 90 days. 

 

It would appear from the OP that a multi-entry visa was involved. Such visas only allow stays of 90 days  and 90 day reporting is not required. Leaving the country and returning to obtain a new 90 day entry is needed to remain 'legal'. 

[Tony125]

He needs to put his foot down and take care of himself  If she doesn't have a visa for GB he doesn't have time to apply for one now for her. If caught/arrested on the 4 month  overstay his problem will be much worse as he will pay fine be deported back to GB (cannot go to another country)  and then be blacklisted for " 5 " years not 1. Best fly out asap pay 20,000 baht fine at airport  and live in Cambodia for a year maybe teach to earn money. Or follow Ubon Joe's advice turnhimself in , he will pay a fine reduced by court from the usual 20,000 and he can ask if they can reduce the 1 year ban but if they shorten it to say 6 months he still will have to pay a fine and get a full price ticket to GB where you say he has no family/friends and no money tolive there.

[ubonjoe]

Two off topic inflammatory posts have been removed.

[csabo]

30 minutes ago, janhkt said:

You're confusing 90 day reporting with extension of stay. 

 

90 day reporting IS done at the immigration office.

No, you are confusing yourself. 90 day immigration reports are not jermaine to this post therefore any point you are trying to make is moot.

[Grumpy Duck]

5 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Thanks UbonJoe, Cambodia seems to be cheap, but has no healthcare to speak of, is utterly corrupt from top to bottom. That from posts on the Cambodia forum here.

 

But I guess if he keeps his head down and finds a place somewhere quiet he might be ok. His choices are limited. A private suggestion mentioned elsewhere off forum suggests a "fixer" would solve the problem for 35k baht if he sends his passport, it'll come back clean with a 30 day visa. Fine if it actually works and his passport isn't sold on. I have no experience on such matters.

 

I've suggested he calls the lawyer you found and have a chat first.

I had a 1 day overstay over a year ago. Wanted to go to Vietnam, but did not know Americans cannot get entry visa so I went to Siam Riap Cambodia, found the people very friendly and helpful, almost everyone spoke English maybe as it is a tourist town. I read that the Thai Consulate in Phnom Penn was terribly corrupt so I just took a bus back. Cannot remember how much I spent. 

[Mansell]

Siem Riep is probably a good option. You can eat for as cheap as a dollar at the food stands along the river in the evening. Lots of farangs to talk with. Pretty pleasant place until the power goes off for a couple of days after a storm. Have no clue on housing costs. I walked every where....nice and healthy. If you get off the main streets watch out for the dogs, they can be really nasty. Always carried a big stick and plenty of stones to hurl at them. People like here very friendly and speak English.

[anon789561]

have been reading this thread. yes your mate really has been daft getting himself in that situation. but hey. i'm not judging. everyone makes mistakes. as has already been pointed out by others unless his wife already has a british passport or indefinite leave I doubt they'd let her in in his financial situation especially as you say he has no where to stay. it's up to him what he does but if it was me i'd hand myself in and try my luck been very apologetic to the court and see how I got on. if he is truthful and can convince them it was an honest mistake I reckon they'd be fairly lenient. but you need to tell him whatever he does he needs to do it sharpish as if he's picked up before he approaches them he's in deep shit. worse case scenario i'd just go and stay in Cambodia, easy enough to get by there as far as I am aware and a year isn't the end of the world.

[Dene16]

3 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Thanks to all of you who offer advice. I copied it all to my friend whose wife has "decreed" (his word) that they go to the UK for a year. Quite where they'll live or indeed how they will live is up to them - you cannot help some people!

I don't believe in my wildest dreams he will get a visa for his wife

As you have mentioned he is living on his savings and obviously waiting for his old age pension,  5 years away

He would need to show an income of £18600 for UK immigration to except her application for a visa of any sort or £65000 in savings (but that's as a sponsor for a tourist visa). 

He has no UK residence (another big criteria) and as you have mentioned is unwell and possibly unable to work

He could overcome some things but it would take time, that he does not have, and help from friends in the UK

What was he intending to do in 8 months time? As he would still be in the same position then.

The UK is NOT a viable option in my opinion now or ever in the future. Which both he and his wife need to realise

 

 

[bbi1]

Quote

My friend who is a bit daft at times has just called me in a panic asking for advice. He came to Thailand 7 months back on a non-imm O based on marriage that was issued Nov 2016 and expires Nov 2017. He thought it meant he could stay for a year and not the 90 day period triggered on arrival at the border - in this case Suvarnabhumi I don't know if it was multiple entry or not.

Does his passport not have a stamp saying that his time to exit the country is 90 days after arrival? Did they not stamp and put that date in there?

 

Quote

So today he and his Thai wife popped into his local immigration office, who weren't too impressed and pointed out he has a 4 months overstay past the 90 day period. They told him to go do a border run to Laos and pay the fine but also said he might well be arrested when he came back in.

I was always under the impression from previous readings on this forum when immigration finds someone who's overstayed, they will lock them up. Is it common that immigration officers just let people go who's overstayed?

Edited July 6, 2017 by bbi1

[dbrenn]

If this guy is short on cash, then a year in the UK with the wife simply isn't going to happen as others here have pointed out. Best bet is to plead his case to avoid the ban as UJ advised, and if that fails then stay in neighbouring countries for a year on the cheap. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by dbrenn

[White Tiger]

I once worked with a teacher who, so the story goes, was on long overstay under the new rules. I gather he lost his passport when he was on a trip to Bangkok.  His TM card went with the passport.  He reported it to the police, got a police report, (explained that his visa was in his passport) and then applied for a new passport at his embassy.  Once the new document was in place he said he went along to his local immigration office and got it all "sorted out".  Don't remember exactly what immigration did for him, but the police report and a new passport I think enabled him to somehow get a new visa/permission to stay and his overstay never came into it because he never brought it up when he reported the missing passport.

 

Of course the teacher may just have been telling me lies. But if it was true then it seems like it might give people in a desperate situation a little hope - as long as they are unfortunate enough to lose their passport of course.