Teacher Candidates Demand English Requirements Be Reduced

[LannaGuy]

13 minutes ago, stephehr said:

When Thai teachers teach English they teach it in Thai, and a lot of Pilipino teachers teach most of the  English lesson in Thai. 

what????  I don't know of ONE Filipino who can speak Thai are you getting confused?  Filipinos speak very good English normally from every quarter of the Philippines

[LannaGuy]

10 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

Yes, the test is for ALL Thai teaching candidates - not just Thai English teachers = A Thai language teacher needs to pass an English test to get a job !

That is strange but, to be blunt, anything which breaks the culture of 'specialness' here I welcome

[kcpattaya]

Yeah - what's the point of teaching proper English to students in order to give them a better chance in their future?!
Probably too complicated. Better sabai sabai.

[helloagain]

14 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

Computerrrrrrrrrrr is not spelt like that so why oh why do teachers teach to say it like that. Many tourists come to thailand. It is not just the english that can speak english. So why not teach children to talk and understand english then when they are older then teach then to read and write it. How many time do i go to a store and somebody follows me and comes to me but when i ask something they not understand. Do i have to put it on paper before they understand ..........and then they reply by writing it down. No better to teach the spoken word. The lowering of standards is never good. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by helloagain
Spelling

[aussie11950]

I believe concentrating on pronunciation, speaking and listening skills are more important than grammar. 

The education system seems to push the grammar because it's easy to get material from the Internet and doesn't require much skill or work. 

Unfortunately it's very boring and does not help communication as its not practical when they cannot speak English. 

But talking is important for communication. 

Gramnar can be taught later when communication skills have improved and they can learn grammar from talking. 

 

 

[cmsally]

This seems to be one of those blanket regulations introduced with no thought.

I agree a teacher of Thai has no need to pass English but then I think science subjects need at least an intermediate level as so much is published in English. For an English teacher the level should be higher than 400.

Some kind of gradation would seem to be too difficult to organise!

 

Thailand would need to do a massive overhaul to get out of the spiral of low quality. Low quality teachers will produce low quality students and so it goes on. Low quality is low quality however many ways you dress it up. Eventually you run out of costumes to dress it in.

[1SteveC]

12 hours ago, mok199 said:

i have lost all hope in this country...for those of us that have children in the system....don't rely on the teachers,take time and teach your children after classes and week ends ,make it fun and have ''English only days''with prizes and new toys, have only engish programs on the coms and phones.AND DONT LET YOUR WIFES FAMIILT AND FREINDS BRAINWASH THEM TO TO BAD.THIS COUNTRY IS SO FAR BEHIND THE PACK IT REALLY BELIEVES IT IS COMING IN FIRST.,my boy is 3 and I have made many enimies around my home ,I refuse to allow thais to use ''ahhhh ''when he says something correct and ''AHHHH'' when he says some thing wrong.or is it the other way around    .we have words in English for yes and no they are ''yes '' and ''no'' is that so difficult to say ...I have also been corrected by said thais..apparently have been  pronouncing a few English words wrong for 60 years now..''apple'' is appenn..''burger'' is burgerrrrrrrr...''central''  is centrannn....to name a few.

 

Maybe brush up a little on your own English skills, before passing on poor spelling, punctuation and grammar.

 

:-)

[1SteveC]

4 minutes ago, aussie11950 said:

I believe concentrating on pronunciation, speaking and listening skills are more important than grammar. 

The education system seems to push the grammar because it's easy to get material from the Internet and doesn't require much skill or work. 

Unfortunately it's very boring and does not help communication as its not practical when they cannot speak English. 

But talking is important for communication. 

Gramnar can be taught later when communication skills have improved and they can learn grammar from talking. 

 

 

 

Really ? You clearly have no idea as to how languages are taught or used.

 

"Some people think that correct English grammar matters only to teachers and is of no real importance in daily life. This is certainly not true. Grammar, regardless of the country or the language, is the foundation for communication. When a message is relayed with the correct grammar, it is easier to understand the purpose and meaning of that message. In order to communicate, a learner should know the grammar of the language. It is important to be able to express yourself, but this should be done in a way that people find easy to understand."

 

"In linguistics, grammar is the set of structural rules which influences the composition of clauses, phrases, and words in any given language. It is the systematic study and description of a language, and it helps us to understand how words and their component parts combine to form sentences."

 

"

Reasons why you should apply the correct grammar when you speak and write

• Grammar rules can help learners develop the habit of thinking logically and clearly. After studying grammar, learners are able to become more accurate when using a language.
• Without good grammar, clear communication is impossible. Proper grammar keeps you from being misunderstood while expressing your thoughts and ideas.
• Grammar improves the development of fluency. When a person has learned grammar, it will be easier for that person to know how to organise and express the ideas in their mind without difficulty. As a result, they will be able to speak, read and write the language more fluently.
• Many employers are immediately put off when they receive a cover letter for a job application that contains grammatical errors and is poorly written. Many employers will simply ignore this application and even delete it. It is therefore important to bear this in mind when applying for a job.
• When writing on behalf of your organisation, it is important to use the correct grammar, as this can mean the difference between readers trusting your expertise or questioning your knowledge of the subject matter. If you can’t write properly, you can’t relay your subject matter with authority.
• A person with poor grammar skill can form a negative impression on others. First impressions can be lasting, and may hide the true judgment of character. Some people consider good grammar to be a mark of intelligence and education. Don’t allow strangers to form a negative impression of you based on your poor communication skills.
• Writing and speaking correctly gives you the appearance of credibility. If you’re attempting to build a reputation as an expert in your profession, correct use of grammar is extremely important."

 

http://www.witslanguageschool.com/NewsRoom/ArticleView/tabid/180/ArticleId/279/Is-grammar-important.aspx

 

[1SteveC]

8 minutes ago, cmsally said:

This seems to be one those blanket regulations introduced with no thought.

I agree a teacher of Thai has no need to pass English but then I think science subjects need at least an intermediate level as so much is published in English. For an English teacher the level should be higher than 400.

Some kind of gradation would seem to be too difficult to organise!

 

Thailand would need to do a massive overhaul to get out of the spiral of low quality. Low quality teachers will produce low quality students and so it goes on. Low quality is low quality however many ways you dress it up. Eventually you run out of costumes to dress it in.

 

"as so much is published in English.", not just for that reason, but also to publish in English. One of the reasons that Thai universities do badly on global rankings is the lack of papers published in English.

[yardrunner]

14 hours ago, tartempion said:

Still have not met the only English knowledgeable teacher or person in my daughters school. All other personal in that school does not understand a single English word.
She does get one (1) hour of English though. Why would Thai teachers need English anyway? There is no use/need for English in this country.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Why would Thai teachers need English anyway? There is no use/need for English in this country., many Thais would disagree with you, i am retired from the UK and have  Thai friends with young children and am asked to teach them which i will not do but i am happy to speak to them and have conversations in English with them whenever i see them and the parents are appreciative of this

[1SteveC]

53 minutes ago, timewilltell said:

Singapore realised the importance of English a long time ago.

As did Thailand.

 

"Through his reforms of the Buddhist Sangha, King Rama I (1782–1809), accelerated the development of public education and during the reign of King Rama IV (1851–1865) the printing press arrived in Thailand making books available in the Thai language for the first time; English had become the lingua franca of the Far East, and the education provided by the monks was proving inadequate for government officials. Rama IV decreed that measures be taken to modernise education and insisted that English would be included in the curriculum"

[cmsally]

12 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

"as so much is published in English.", not just for that reason, but also to publish in English. One of the reasons that Thai universities do badly on global rankings is the lack of papers published in English.

Yes of course and that is of course a step even further ahead. They are way behind, and mired in a  mediocrity which is perpetuated by self reinforcement that is entrenched in the system.

[tifino]

This is all no different than removing pedestrian traffic lights,

because no one stops for them

[wildewillie89]

13 hours ago, DavisH said:

Fluent or competent english speaking Thais are everywhere. They are just not teaching english in schools as the work conditions and salary are dismal....they are employed in industry/research and higher levels of government. Most of them have studied overseas, though this does not guarantee they will maintain their english skills once they return. use it or lose it, as the saying goes. Currently, my wife is on her third European overseas trip this year as part of her work. She would not have such opportunities as a school teacher. 

A school teacher, who is a government official, is able to study overseas whilst still being paid their salary. Their salary will just remain the same for the duration of the time spent overseas, rather than increase a couple times a year if they stayed in Thai. 

So they do have quite a few opportunities. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by wildewillie89

[Thai Ron]

12 hours ago, Cadbury said:

You are a touch of class with your English grammar Thai Ron. Great to see you can spell complex four letter words like "shit" and "crap" so well. 10/10 for pathetic crudity is the best result you get.

I think it is bedtime for you Ron.

Oh do establish a grip on reality and prick that bubble of sanctimony.

"Shit" and "crap" passed into everyday vernacular long ago and ceased to be offensive.

Only an insufferable bore would take issue with such innocuous words.

Words that make it through the forum's language filters perfectly intact, I hasten to add.

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by Thai Ron

[silent]

14 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Ironically, those places, along with a few others are exactly where you will find the largest collection of Thais that speak English. People working in the "hospitality" industry are often quite capable of carrying on a basic conversation that your average, bank staff/manager, department store employee would be struggling with, if they could speak at all. Yes, I know all about the usual cliches, "You want some dink" "You hansum man", " Where you come from" etc, but there are many on this forum would agree that in comparison to the average Thai they are ahead  of those who have had English lessons at school for years and whose retention level is dismal.

Some can speak it, but can't right it with little or no need to. Others can write it, but have a huge problem speaking, because the powers that be desire to allege that their English skills can't be that dumb after learning, (at least a little), from an English speaker with a University degree.      

[todlad]

The old arguments come pouring out. This is Thailand ... we don't speak English. We are only teachers.

 

Same old rubbish from the bone idle.

 

Live in the dark ages why not. 

 

Your students need you to lead them not sit in your ignorance.

[1SteveC]

7 minutes ago, silent said:

Some can speak it, but can't right it with little or no need to. Others can write it, but have a huge problem speaking, because the powers that be desire to allege that their English skills can't be that dumb after learning, (at least a little), from an English speaker with a University degree.      

 

And in English ?

[ccarbaugh]

I first came to Thailand in 1973.  Thai English-speakers were virtually non-existent at that time.  We now find ourselves approaching 2018, (45 years later,) and there are times when you can meet a Thai that can understand and have a (meaningful) conversation, but it is still painfully rare.  .... I have observed that much of the "anti-English" is actually promoted by the Government, the System, the Bureaucrats, the good General, ... and of course, by the well-meaning "Patriotic" Thais! (e.g. Dual-pricing, ...)  The large majority of people in every country fail to recognize that whatever government exists, has to propagandize the "special-ness and unique-ness"  of their flag-waving country  in order to solidify and prolong their power.   Thais are not aware and (covertly) encouraged to not acknowledge that there are other places outside of Thailand and that basically, all people- everywhere, are the same. (-Even Farangs!)

[Reigntax]

Only in Thailand is success reduced to the lowest common denominator. Now if only they understood what a deniminator was they could probably improve the maths ability.

[Robert Macgregor]

A degree a good teacher does not make. Can have a degree in shovelling shit and still get a job over a person with teaching experience. Dont judge a person by their degree only.

[Reigntax]

28 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

And in English ?

 

I thought i understood english pretty good until just recently. 

[Reigntax]

1 minute ago, Robert Macgregor said:

A degree a good teacher does not make. Can have a degree in shovelling shit and still get a job over a person with teaching experience. Dont judge a person by their degree only.

 

Common Robert. A degree in shovelling shit gives you an automatic job with the current government. A masters would make you the PM and a doctorate will land you in attitude adjustment camp for being too forward thinking.

[little mary sunshine]

Yes, we the undereducated future teachers ,with limited

Skills, DEMAND our students remain undereducated as well!!

[Krataiboy]

Yeah, but. . . 

 

Who needs incompetent English teachers and hours of boring grammar lessons when this month sees the launch of a gadget which provides  instant translation of conversations between two people speaking entirely different languages?

 

Link: www.waverlylabs.com/pilot-translation-kit/

 

Hearing is believing.

 

 

 

[todlad]

4 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

Yes, we the undereducated future teachers ,with limited

Skills, DEMAND our students remain undereducated as well!!

It is a shame that there is some truth in what you say isn't it.

 

The driver/handyman at the hotel near DMK I just left speaks English well enough to talk to me about Man United, Buddha holiday, which airline I need ... my guess is about the level to which teachers do not want to aspire. 

 

Like many people here, I have worked in many countries and one big advantage of language skills is that you get the job working on international projects if your foreign boss can talk to you. I have worked with people with lower level technical skills but their language skills made up for that in part. In other words, English (another language) will give you an edge.

 

For teachers: how are you going to access and read your educational research papers in English, how will you find the materials that you need to build up your own library of resources?

[DerekMarshall]

16 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

Nope. Thai kids don't fail tests period. 

 

like the phrase "Whats the difference between a Thai School and an International school? - You can fail students at an International school!" 

[DerekMarshall]

16 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Yeah, but. . . 

 

Who needs incompetent English teachers and hours of boring grammar lessons when this month sees the launch of a gadget which provides  instant translation of conversations between two people speaking entirely different languages?

 

Link: www.waverlylabs.com/pilot-translation-kit/

 

Hearing is believing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

seen a Chinese guy use one to complain about his breakfast  "eat sh*t and die" was the translation.  

[DerekMarshall]

26 minutes ago, Robert Macgregor said:

A degree a good teacher does not make. Can have a degree in shovelling shit and still get a job over a person with teaching experience. Dont judge a person by their degree only.

Good and valid point. We can judge teachers who have studied English at University level for 4 years yet can't speak the language they have been studying and training to teach!

 

 

[FredNL]

The position requires scores of 400 of 990 for the Test of English for International Communications, or TOEIC; 3.5 of 9 for the International English Language Testing System, or IELTS; or 40 out of 120 for the Test of English as a Foreign Language Internet-Based Test, or TOEFL iBT.

 

In the western world:

400 of 990 --> You FAIL  (40.4%)

3.5 of 9 --> You FAIL (38.9%)

40 out of 120 --> You FAIL  (33.3%)

 

In normal (western) countries you only pass when you score 60%. Not less than that !!!