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Death of Australian man parasailing in Phuket - two Thai men charged with negligence


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Posted

It's dangerously enough riding a bicycle in Thailand. Why risk your life in a parachute , especially when your old enough to know better ?   

 

You will never find me doing anything like that . I'm risking my life in the Thai traffic daily , enough excitement for me. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, VBF said:

I doubt Life Insurance would cover this - however my travel insurance covers both parasailing and parascending over water. Whether this gentleman had such insurance is obviously unknown by us.

Good to see that someone reads what they are covered for.

 

Just that I have read some weird small print/disclaimers etc etc, i.e. "provided that the operator is fully licensed or qualified and appropriately insured to operate such a business" but did not mention what that small print/disclaimer referred to, i.e. jet-ski or motorbike rental, parasailing or parascending, and it was reported in the press that this guy didn't have his paperwork wasn't in order, so if such a small print/disclaimer was in such a travel insurance policy, they might just be able to walk away ?

Edited by 4MyEgo
Posted
8 hours ago, Argus Tuft said:

 

 

How on earth do you manage to infer a nonsense conspiracy theory with this accident?

Appalling post

I'd say because he looks at both sides of the coin, anything is possible in Thailand, i.e. I once had a village cop say to me, "welcome" when I 1st moved here, the next words were, if anybody bother you, I take care 10,000 baht, they disappear. 

 

Work that out, I thought he was kidding, that was until I later heard a particular trouble maker in the adjoining village disappeared, story is, everyone in that village agreed to turning his lights out and literally signed off on it, including his mother, because jail wasn't an option, always in and out, so the story goes, he was taken for a drive, grave dug out, shot to the back of the head and grave filled in.

 

My dad also told me of a story like this back in his own country, the cops just left the cell door and back door to the cop station open, and they hunted him down, half a dozen shots in the back, but that was in the 40's.

 

Sometime we can wear blinkers and call people paranoid, I like to look at all possibilities, and what the other poster said makes sense to me for what its worth.

Posted (edited)

The Thai news are saying the guy panicked and unhooked himself, and was in fact still in the harness when he fell. It is shameful to spread this kind of misinformation! Probably according to police statements, while they are the first to hammer that the spreading of false information is a crime!

 

As some have already pointed out on this forum, it would be Houdini to arrive so quickly to unclip the clip fasteners under the life jacket! (There are normally 5 attachment points: 2 on the shoulders, 1 on the chest, 2 on the groin.) We still find the same tactic: they blame the victim, the client, in this case a Farang: "he panicked, he detached himself, it is his fault"! It is a total lack of respect towards the victim of the negligence of operators and negligence of authorities supposed to monitor safety!

 

One can see on the video that this man seemed in full form, perfectly happy and relaxed and that he showed absolutely no signs of fear or anxiety.

Edited by Lamar
Posted
3 hours ago, balo said:

It's dangerously enough riding a bicycle in Thailand. Why risk your life in a parachute , especially when your old enough to know better ?   

 

You will never find me doing anything like that . I'm risking my life in the Thai traffic daily , enough excitement for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

Bizarre thought process.

 

I'll bet you all the tea in China that the chances of dying or severe injury on the roads are about 1 million times more likely to happen than in a parachute ride.

 

And  age is of no consequence.

 

 

Posted
19 hours ago, sensei said:

I've done that before and scares me to watch that video.

It is unconventional but a "navigator" flies with the client. He stirs the chute by tugging on the ropes because there is no way the client can stir himself back to shore against the wind and with the boat out at sea.

The "navigator" just holds on and sometimes would wrap his legs around the flyers' chest area just to get leverage. 

What i see here is that there is no way the man could have unhooked or unfastened the harness himself. His sheer weight would not allow that. It could have been a rip in the worn out harness.

This is a disaster and traumatic to his companions.

RIP old man.           "stir"  you mean steer ???

 

Posted
On 13/07/2017 at 2:31 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Finally some truth to my theory of negligence on faulty equipment and not what I previously read, i.e. that the deceased pulled the hook which releases you.

 

So now what, a 500 baht fine each and 2 day suspension from going up again, more than likely IMO.

 

RIP to the digger, got to feel for his family, a holiday gone tragically wrong because of the relaxed regulations and laws, again IMO, in the Land of Smiles.

 

I also suspect that if he had any life insurance, they will be looking for an exit clause due to going up in the chute, hope that's not the case as that would just compound things for his widow and family.

Parasailing would be classified as a dangerous sport. Cover will be void in most policies.

 

Australian news..  UK news... New Zealand and also Indian news coverage of this.

 

Let's see TAT response... 

Posted
4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I'd say because he looks at both sides of the coin, anything is possible in Thailand, i.e. I once had a village cop say to me, "welcome" when I 1st moved here, the next words were, if anybody bother you, I take care 10,000 baht, they disappear. 

 

Work that out, I thought he was kidding, that was until I later heard a particular trouble maker in the adjoining village disappeared, story is, everyone in that village agreed to turning his lights out and literally signed off on it, including his mother, because jail wasn't an option, always in and out, so the story goes, he was taken for a drive, grave dug out, shot to the back of the head and grave filled in.

 

My dad also told me of a story like this back in his own country, the cops just left the cell door and back door to the cop station open, and they hunted him down, half a dozen shots in the back, but that was in the 40's.

 

Sometime we can wear blinkers and call people paranoid, I like to look at all possibilities, and what the other poster said makes sense to me for what its worth.

 

Another conspiracy loony.

 

Read again what you have written about shady murders and graves being dug - and tell us how that relates to this tragedy, which occurred in broad daylight, on a popular tourist beach in Thailand.  

 

Unbelievable

 

Posted
42 minutes ago, Argus Tuft said:

 

Another conspiracy loony.

 

Read again what you have written about shady murders and graves being dug - and tell us how that relates to this tragedy, which occurred in broad daylight, on a popular tourist beach in Thailand.  

 

Unbelievable

 

Its obvious those that wear blinkers like yourself, cannot turn, so why bother wasting my time in responding to a horse that knows no different.

Posted
2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Its obvious those that wear blinkers like yourself, cannot turn, so why bother wasting my time in responding to a horse that knows no different.

I asked you a valid question.  

 

Explain how your tales of shady murders in the dead of night can possibly relate to this tragedy which happened in broad daylight.

Simple question.

Posted (edited)

Looking at the video, one may wonder if the problem is not the way in which one has proceeded to the harness, as well as (more likely) the position of the arms at the take-off.

 

If we see other parasailing videos in Phuket (see photos # 1 and # 2 of the top strip), we see that the customers are comfortably supported from the bottom, they are almost seated, as for the paragliding. In photo # 1 we see that the lady is firmly held down by straps passing under the groin and around the top of the thighs (blue arrow). On photo # 2, we see the operator who clips the bottom attachments (at the groin) and on photo # 3, he is seen in flight, also comfortably installed and well maintained from the bottom, in quasi-seated position (blue arrows). It will also be noted that the straps connecting the parachute to the boat rope pass clearly over the shoulders (red arrows).

 

(A few years ago I myself had the opportunity to do a parasailing flight at exactly the same place and it was a very pleasant experience, not at all frightening, the take-off and landing awas smooth, and the handing position on flight was comfortable.)

 

The video does not show the beginning of the harnessing procedure, precisely the harnessing of the bottom (in the groin and the upper thighs), but one wonders if the bottom straps have been properly clipped (photo # 4, blue arrow). Just a doubt, difficult to decide after the video.

 

In any case, the position of the arms at the time of departure is not correct. The arms are ABOVE the main straps of the parachute (red arrows on photos #5, #6 and #7), while they should of course be UNDER it, as shown in photos of a normal flight (red arrows on photos # 1 and # 3) and the operator should have verified this, he should have realized it, he should have brief the client correctly.

 

It will also be noted that his hands are closed precisely at the level of the snap hooks that connect the harness to the main parachute straps (green arrows on photos #5 – cf. also on photos #1 and #2).

 

At the time of take-off, a man (probably a ground operator) is seen who seems to have realized the problem and tries to warn by shouting and gestures of the arms (photo # 8).

 

15 seconds after take-off (at 02:30 on the original video), just when the operator positioned himself above it, it would seem that the client is spreading his arms - perhaps as a result of the pressure exerted by the parachute straps (photo # 9).

 

2 seconds later, he seems to be agitated, he is in trouble (photo # 10). Another second later, he is no longer held by the harness, he is only clawed arm tense - perhaps held at arm's length by the operator? - (photo # 11). The next moment, he falls...

 

The client would not have had time to unhook the harness under the life jacket; If he was badly secured from below (at the groin and upper thigh), then he would have slipped off the harness and would have fallen without his harness. If, as polce seems to say, he fell with his harness on then the problem is with the snap hooks that connect the harness to the two main thongs of the parachute.

 

The wrong position of the hands which was not corrected or even perceived by the operators in time was probably a trigger for the accident. A forensic review of the equipment could reveal if a defect of it has eventually come into play.

 

If the operator who performed the harnessing informed his client correctly, the accident would probably not have happened. If the ground operator had checked that everything was in order (positions of the customer, operator and equipment) before giving the signal to leave, the accident would probably not have happened.

 

There was obviouly a lack of security, perhaps not in terms of the equipment reliability but in terms of the security procedures before take-off. Blaming the customer is absolutely shameful!

 

Parasail.2.jpg

Edited by Lamar
Posted

In the Australian press, it is hypothesized (from the video) that it would be due to the bottom ties.
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/expert-claims-leg-rings-failure-led-to-fatal-fall-ng-b88535549z
Easily verifiable assumption, depending on whether the client has fallen with or without his harness.

Interesting: they emphasize the fact that the equipment in Australia makes that one is in sitting position. In fact normaly in Phuket also (see photos on my post above)

Posted
1 hour ago, Argus Tuft said:

I asked you a valid question.  

 

Explain how your tales of shady murders in the dead of night can possibly relate to this tragedy which happened in broad daylight.

Simple question.

My original reply to another poster agreed with his theory, i.e. he could have been taken out, i.e. he was apparently worth 250 mil, and I added that their is always two sides of the coin, and its possible because, bla bla bla

 

Does that clear things up now or are you still short a few bob of a pound ?

Posted
1 hour ago, Lamar said:

Looking at the video, one may wonder if the problem is not the way in which one has proceeded to the harness, as well as (more likely) the position of the arms at the take-off.

 

If we see other parasailing videos in Phuket (see photos # 1 and # 2 of the top strip), we see that the customers are comfortably supported from the bottom, they are almost seated, as for the paragliding. In photo # 1 we see that the lady is firmly held down by straps passing under the groin and around the top of the thighs (blue arrow). On photo # 2, we see the operator who clips the bottom attachments (at the groin) and on photo # 3, he is seen in flight, also comfortably installed and well maintained from the bottom, in quasi-seated position (blue arrows). It will also be noted that the straps connecting the parachute to the boat rope pass clearly over the shoulders (red arrows).

 

(A few years ago I myself had the opportunity to do a parasailing flight at exactly the same place and it was a very pleasant experience, not at all frightening, the take-off and landing awas smooth, and the handing position on flight was comfortable.)

 

The video does not show the beginning of the harnessing procedure, precisely the harnessing of the bottom (in the groin and the upper thighs), but one wonders if the bottom straps have been properly clipped (photo # 4, blue arrow). Just a doubt, difficult to decide after the video.

 

In any case, the position of the arms at the time of departure is not correct. The arms are ABOVE the main straps of the parachute (red arrows on photos #5, #6 and #7), while they should of course be UNDER it, as shown in photos of a normal flight (red arrows on photos # 1 and # 3) and the operator should have verified this, he should have realized it, he should have brief the client correctly.

 

It will also be noted that his hands are closed precisely at the level of the snap hooks that connect the harness to the main parachute straps (green arrows on photos #5 – cf. also on photos #1 and #2).

 

At the time of take-off, a man (probably a ground operator) is seen who seems to have realized the problem and tries to warn by shouting and gestures of the arms (photo # 8).

 

15 seconds after take-off (at 02:30 on the original video), just when the operator positioned himself above it, it would seem that the client is spreading his arms - perhaps as a result of the pressure exerted by the parachute straps (photo # 9).

 

2 seconds later, he seems to be agitated, he is in trouble (photo # 10). Another second later, he is no longer held by the harness, he is only clawed arm tense - perhaps held at arm's length by the operator? - (photo # 11). The next moment, he falls...

 

The client would not have had time to unhook the harness under the life jacket; If he was badly secured from below (at the groin and upper thigh), then he would have slipped off the harness and would have fallen without his harness. If, as polce seems to say, he fell with his harness on then the problem is with the snap hooks that connect the harness to the two main thongs of the parachute.

 

The wrong position of the hands which was not corrected or even perceived by the operators in time was probably a trigger for the accident. A forensic review of the equipment could reveal if a defect of it has eventually come into play.

 

If the operator who performed the harnessing informed his client correctly, the accident would probably not have happened. If the ground operator had checked that everything was in order (positions of the customer, operator and equipment) before giving the signal to leave, the accident would probably not have happened.

 

There was obviouly a lack of security, perhaps not in terms of the equipment reliability but in terms of the security procedures before take-off. Blaming the customer is absolutely shameful!

 

Parasail.2.jpg

 

Yes, your analysis makes sense in many ways.

Posted
14 minutes ago, happyas said:

 

Yes, your analysis makes sense in many ways.

    I too noticed that the only part of the harness that seemed loose prior to 'take-off', was the strap that presumably

was meant to constitute the 'seat' portion seen in the other photos.

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, swanny321 said:

    I too noticed that the only part of the harness that seemed loose prior to 'take-off', was the strap that presumably

was meant to constitute the 'seat' portion seen in the other photos.

Poor man, RIP. 

I am no expert, and have never tried parasailing. But I noticed a few things in the video: 

1. The deceased seems to have no harness securing him under his groin. If he had, then we wouldnt see his black shorts on his left leg when he is facing the camera. We would have seen the grey harness. 

 

2. From behind it looks like the harness hangs loose under his bottom. 

 

3. When they are taking off another guy is running after them, screaming. He gestures with his arms, out to the side, like he says that the deceased should straighten out his arms so the harness will get in place over his shoulders and not under his armpits. 

 

4. In the air the deceased straighten out his arms, probably to do as the guy on the beach says?, and to get the harness in the right place - over his shoulders. When he does that, it seems like he falls cos of lack of straps under his groin. 

5. The thai guy in air seems to be sitting on the wire, not on the shoulders of the deceased. 

Edited by Danang
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, bartender100 said:

It said shallow water somewhere, maybe if it had been deeper he may have survived

Yes, shallow water it seems. And if it was intentional to kill him it would be a big risk doing it that way cos he could have survived to tell the tale. Almost did. I think this went wrong: 

1. No harness under his groin: fault of operators. 

2. Harness under his armpits: should have been detected by operators before the guy on the beach sees it and runs after them screaming that the harness is in the wrong place. 

Edited by Danang
Posted
9 minutes ago, Danang said:

Yes, shallow water it seems. And if it was intentional to kill him it would be a big risk doing it that way cos he could have survived to tell the tale. Almost did. I think this went wrong: 

1. No harness under his groin: fault of operators. 

2. Harness under his armpits: should have been detected by operators before the guy on the beach sees it and runs after them screaming that the harness is in the wrong place. 

Check the video ..... you may then wish to edit your post. 

 

 

 

Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Check the video ..... you may then wish to edit your post. 

 

 

 

Read the whole thread after posting. Looks like he has harness on his right leg, but not on the left. No expert, was just some thoughts. Anyway, having the wire under his armpits shouldnt have any serious effect I guess, and that the fault is either him releasing himself from the parachute, or the leg straps to be the fault. 

Edited by Danang
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, swanny321 said:

    I too noticed that the only part of the harness that seemed loose prior to 'take-off', was the strap that presumably

was meant to constitute the 'seat' portion seen in the other photos.

The lanyard that serves as a seat is present (purple arrows # 1, # 2, # 3) BUT it DOESN'T seem to be connected from the front, which will prevent it from acting as a seat.

 

There is a hanging structure which seems to be like a belt buckle; Strangely, it seems that it is not connected to anything (white arrows pictures # 2 and # 3).

 

On picture # 4, in addition to the wrong position of the arms in relation to the main straps of the parachute (cf. my post ID #102), it can be seen that the bottom strap (which is supposed to act as a seat) is not connected frontally. It would seem that a link like the one I traced in yellow in photo # 5 is missing; We can compare with the photos # 7 (yellow arrow) and # 8.

 

On picture # 6, it can be seen that shortly after take-off the customer is not at all in the same comfortable position as the customers on photos # 7 and # 8; The straps of the parachute pass under his armpits and he does not seem to be well supported from below. (Photos # 7 and # 8 are from videos posted on Youtube and made during parasailing in Phuket.)

 

The harnessing seems to have been carried out too hasty and perhaps incorrect; There was obviously no briefing or check-up prior to take-off. What a shame to dare to blame the victim!

Parasail.3.jpg

Edited by Lamar
Posted
27 minutes ago, Lamar said:

The lanyard that serves as a seat is present (purple arrows # 1, # 2, # 3) BUT it DOESN'T seem to be connected from the front, which will prevent it from acting as a seat.

 

There is a hanging structure which seems to be like a belt buckle; Strangely, it seems that it is not connected to anything (white arrows pictures # 2 and # 3).

 

On picture # 4, in addition to the wrong position of the arms in relation to the main straps of the parachute (cf. my post ID #102), it can be seen that the bottom strap (which is supposed to act as a seat) is not connected frontally. It would seem that a link like the one I traced in yellow in photo # 5 is missing; We can compare with the photos # 7 (yellow arrow) and # 8.

 

On picture # 6, it can be seen that shortly after take-off the customer is not at all in the same comfortable position as the customers on photos # 7 and # 8; The straps of the parachute pass under his armpits and he does not seem to be well supported from below. (Photos # 7 and # 8 are from videos posted on Youtube and made during parasailing in Phuket.)

 

The harnessing seems to have been carried out too hasty and perhaps incorrect; There was obviously no briefing or check-up prior to take-off. What a shame to dare to blame the victim!

Parasail.3.jpg

 Well done...serious food for thought here....There obviously is more than just one contributing factor for this tragedy.

Posted
5 hours ago, Lamar said:

The harnessing seems to have been carried out too hasty and perhaps incorrect;

   Well thought out analysis btw. It's almost as if the only thing holding him aloft was the wrong

positioning if the 'ropes' under his arms.....seemed like a splendid fellow too.....what a shame.

Posted
On 7/13/2017 at 2:24 PM, jaiyen said:

I was a parascending instructor when I lived in England and I have seen these chutes in Kata many times. They are cheap crap as is the harness.  They will carry 2 people, no problem, but do not have a tandem harness. The Thai guy just hangs by the ropes.  When I flew passengers we had a proper extended harness with rings mounted in the harness for the passengers harness  to attach too. Never had any problems.  The Thai operators  are dangerous and illegal. They were banned from the beaches many times but always come back. Lots ob envelopes and they carry on killing people.  Remember the Aussie guy who was recently charged with manslaughter (I think ) when he crashed a jet ski and his G/F got killed ?   Hope the Thai cockhead gets done for manslaughter. The guys wife did a video which can be seen in the Daily Express showing the crappy canvas harness he was wearing. Looked like something from a WW2 plane.

 

 

it's not that its a developing country. its the local mindset about safet5y and "never mind" who cares and lack of critical thinking. i have friends in colombia sa that are parasail pilots and instructors. they are very serious about safety and they have top notch equipment, walkie talkies, secondary chutes, etc etc. i have gone up many times into the clouds taking off from the andes. the professionalism inspires confidence. very little in thailand inspires confidence.

Posted
14 hours ago, Lamar said:

The lanyard that serves as a seat is present (purple arrows # 1, # 2, # 3) BUT it DOESN'T seem to be connected from the front, which will prevent it from acting as a seat.

 

There is a hanging structure which seems to be like a belt buckle; Strangely, it seems that it is not connected to anything (white arrows pictures # 2 and # 3).

 

On picture # 4, in addition to the wrong position of the arms in relation to the main straps of the parachute (cf. my post ID #102), it can be seen that the bottom strap (which is supposed to act as a seat) is not connected frontally. It would seem that a link like the one I traced in yellow in photo # 5 is missing; We can compare with the photos # 7 (yellow arrow) and # 8.

 

On picture # 6, it can be seen that shortly after take-off the customer is not at all in the same comfortable position as the customers on photos # 7 and # 8; The straps of the parachute pass under his armpits and he does not seem to be well supported from below. (Photos # 7 and # 8 are from videos posted on Youtube and made during parasailing in Phuket.)

 

The harnessing seems to have been carried out too hasty and perhaps incorrect; There was obviously no briefing or check-up prior to take-off. What a shame to dare to blame the victim!

Parasail.3.jpg

There sure is a lot of unknowns in this incident and as i am interested in cause/effect results i talked with a colleague who is quite well versed in such matters.
He is ex detective, but now analyses mostly covert videos of people involved in   things like making false claims for injuries etc for insurance companies and similar scenarios, so has a good eye for detail and events and interpretation of such.
He has visited Phuket and has been on a couple  of parasailer rides so has a bit of first hand experience on them.
In this incident he has little info to go on this except for the video that we all have seen and he was a bit reticent to comment with such little to go on, but did say this.;[and a lot that supports your views also]
We talked on Skype and i took notes as presented now.
 
"From the get go many things just did not "look right" especially the fitment of the lower seat/support,which is in question already, it didn't appear to fit right and the man does look rather pensive at times.[Could be just nervous about the ride though}
When he was walking you can see him adjust it a bit,so it appears to be a problem to him.
Also about 24 sec he asks about the fitting "stretches when wet"..i'm wondering what is the relevance/meaning here?
The harness straps etc, tho a bit worn looking are capable of carrying a lot more load than they need to and as compared to say , a parachute opening, there is unlikely to be any severe shock loading to them when used here.
 
The real problem starts about 1;50 in when the belts that should go over the mans shoulders, for some reason,as the guy is holding the front harness thus preventing this correct placement happening and they are under his arms.
The helper noticeably looks at this initially, but does nothing and focus's on the towline starting to tighten up, pre liftoff.
As they start to ascend the other groundcrew notice this and start yelling, but is too late.
Now the full weight of this rather solid man is supported by these harness's under his arms and obviously in a bit of pain he tries to reposition them with the help of the crewman who has,as is normal in Thailand, now climbed up above the man.
It is hard to see who is doing what exactly but as the mans arms go up to allow the harness to its normal placement it appears that for whatever reason the talked of lower bum support either has failed or was not initially fitted correctly as is speculated.
Now, the only means of support ie the harness under his arms has been removed and gravity does its thing.
 
Two valids POI now at this stage;
I figure the man to be probably around 90 kilos, so was this weight sufficient to ensure that he just slipped through the whole harness system [which is outside his shirt ,possibly making it less friction] ? The whole rig, shirt and all just went over his shoulder and head ?
I believe this is very possible, myself , if not having any viable lower support as mentioned as a possibility.
 
The next point is indeed of great interest to me.;
Next at about 2;31 the crewman somehow has managed to grab both hands of the man.all the while sitting in his precarious position and is able to hold him for a couple of seconds, until inevitably gravity won the fight.
This is no easy feat if it was just a reaction to save the man from falling.
Maybe he screamed for help just before he fell and the crewman had time to make this move?
Unfortunately you cannot see if the harness/shirt did slip up and over as i believe, but there appears to be no trailing equipment in the fall.
 
 
Hopefully the truth will come out ,but from what i understand of procedures often in Thailand,sadly it may not.
Posted
On 7/13/2017 at 9:38 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Perhaps you missed a line:

 

Daily News reported that the equipment was faulty and that the necessary certification to operate such a business was not in order.

 

Who needs video evidence of that ?

 

What you have to worry about is the sentence they will get, or lack if it.

Didn't seem to matter when a scooter crashed into my car. The Thai scooter driver had no insurance and his license had expired as well as the scooter registration. Do you think that mattered to the police.

 

"You drive car, he drive scooter, your fault.'

Posted

In the Phuket news feed there is a daily video roundup of happenings in Phuket and Thailand.  In the video they show various people looking at a carabiner and the guy announcing the news says that the "harness became unclipped  from the parachute lines" at around the 45 second mark.

 

Seeing as how they think they found the cause, will these clowns operating the parasail be charged with a much more serious crime and will the financiers behind it also be charged?

 

 

Posted
2 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

Didn't seem to matter when a scooter crashed into my car. The Thai scooter driver had no insurance and his license had expired as well as the scooter registration. Do you think that mattered to the police.

 

"You drive car, he drive scooter, your fault.'

Yep, have heard that one, and one were a drunk Thai guy was sentenced because his car ran into a scooter with a farang on it, busted up the farangs ankle, but a week later the farang see's the same guy driving a car, i.e. out of prison, go figure 555

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