UK PM May shed a 'little tear' over election failure

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Whatever you may think of my debating abilities versus those of Farage, I have successfully countered every point you have raised and used factual evidence to back up my arguments.

 

Instead of making any attempt to do the same,  you have resorted to the above post.

 

 Farage; a man who is against the EU freedom of movement directive, yet used the directive so his German wife could move to the UK without having to go through the lengthy and expensive visa and LTR process my wife, and the partners of many members of this forum, had to go through.

 

Farage; a man who rails against EU migrants taking British jobs, but employed a German as his secretary in the UK.

 

Farage; a man who continues to draw his European parliamentary salary, even though he has rarely attended since the referendum, and will continue to do so until full Brexit so that he can draw the maximum possible MEP's pension; UKIP’s dilemma: Pension or principles?

 

Who's going to pay for his, and the other British MEPs', pensions after Brexit? I bet it wont be Brussels!

"Who's going to pay for his, and the other British MEPs', pensions after Brexit? I bet it wont be Brussels!"

 

Hopefully, the UK will agree to only pay UK EMPs' pensions - and then sell out the 'money paid in' (by the taxpayer rather than the EMP?) to the company offering the cheapest possible cost to the 'company' - i.e. taxpayer.

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if both UK and EMPs offered to reduce their pension entitlements to those available to current workers !

 

Obviously its never going to happen - which is a shame as it would concentrate their minds on the plight of so many......

[superal]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

He is a public figure through his own choice. His personal business and actions are relevant when he demonstrably acts in his personal life against his publicly voiced opinions on what is 'right' for everyone else. Some may go as far as to call him a hypocrite.

 

As he is so concerned about the amount of money the UK sends to the EU, as he has said that money should be spent on the NHS or other services in the UK; I wonder why he doesn't donate some of his massive MEP salary and expenses to a health charity in the UK.

 

After all, it seems he and his fellows have been claiming more expenses than they're actually entitled to: Nigel Farage among Ukip MEPs accused of misusing EU funds.

 

Your opinions may very well be 'well known to the populous' and even shared by many; hence the result last June.

 

But opinions are not facts. That you are unwilling to check if the facts support your opinions speaks volumes.

 

Is it your opinion that the multitudinous myths about the EU, such as the banning of home coffee machines, the banning of UK car number plates, the banning of curved bananas and cucumbers etc., etc. are true? If so, you are wrong. (Easy to check; put 'EU myths debunked' into the search engine of your choice.)

 

You have very right to hold and express your opinion; but if you want it to stand up to scrutiny in a debate you need to be able to back it up with some facts.

 

Think you have too much time on your hands . Go and shout on speakers corner , see how long you last .

[7by7]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if both UK and EMPs offered to reduce their pension entitlements to those available to current workers !

 

Obviously its never going to happen - which is a shame as it would concentrate their minds on the plight of so many......

Spot on!

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, superal said:

Think you have too much time on your hands . Go and shout on speakers corner , see how long you last .

As you have sufficient time to make posts such as this, I'd have thought you have enough to check if at least one of your opinions is based on fact or not!

[superal]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

As you have sufficient time to make posts such as this, I'd have thought you have enough to check if at least one of your opinions is based on fact or not!

only took me 1 minute , how about you ? dont forget to include your research time 

[7by7]

18 minutes ago, superal said:

only took me 1 minute , how about you ? dont forget to include your research time 

 

Until and unless you have something adult to contribute, I see no point in responding to you further.

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Until and unless you have something adult to contribute, I see no point in responding to you further.

You talk about misleading facts. But surely it's you that likes to quote misleading information, as if it were correct. A recent example being when you recently insinuated that there are far more UK citizens living in the EU, as opposed to EU citizens residing in the UK. Strangely, when TV member Pegman produced FACTS to the contrary, you went very quite.

What the British people need, is to accept the democratic vote of the people, and get behind The government. The alternative is to give encouragement to the Bureacrats in Brussels, who are trying to insist that the British taxpayer,continues to finance their lavish lifestyle, even after  the UK has left this so-called Union.

It would seem to me that the EU are working to, divide and conquer, and it's working, with help from of the remoaner brigade. Not that I would include you amongst their numbers,of course.

 

[superal]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Until and unless you have something adult to contribute, I see no point in responding to you further.

Mission accomplished

[7by7]

15 hours ago, nontabury said:

You (7by7) talk about misleading facts. But surely it's you that likes to quote misleading information, as if it were correct. A recent example being when you recently insinuated that there are far more UK citizens living in the EU, as opposed to EU citizens residing in the UK. Strangely, when TV member Pegman produced FACTS to the contrary, you went very quite.

 I never said, or even insinuated, that there are far more UK citizens living in the EU than EU citizens living in the UK!

 

What I said was 

On ‎15‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 0:57 PM, 7by7 said:

BTW, most EU nationals in the UK are working and paying tax, most  UK nationals in the EU are elderly and retired

I accept that I should have checked the figure of British pensioners living in other EU states, and that my memory played me false. Having checked, I see that most British citizens living in the EU are workers or the dependants of workers. 

 

According to MigrationWatch, an anti immigration, anti EU site, of the approx. 3.3 million EU nationals living in the UK 2.2 million (66.6%) are working; of the approx. 1,2 million UK citizens living in other EU states, 800,000 (again, 66.6%) are workers or their dependants. I wonder why they ignore the dependants of EU workers living in the UK but count the dependants of British workers living in the EU. Couldn't be an attempt to massage the figures, could it? Add the dependants of EU workers in the UK to that figure and it will, of course, be much higher in proportion to the British workers and their dependants in the EU one.

 

Even so, the number of British pensioners living in other UK states does outweigh the number of EU pensioners living in the UK; for example from the Guardian's Parliamentary sketch last November

Quote

Thursday

.........During a question about reciprocal healthcare arrangements for foreign pensioners, the chair, Meg Hillier, asked Wormald if he had any comparative figures for Spain. “Yes,” he said promptly. “At our last count there are 62 Spanish … ” “Not 62,000?” interrupted the Conservative Richard Bacon. “62 Spanish pensioners,” said Hillier. “You’re kidding me.” “62 Spanish pensioners live in the UK and about 70,000 British pensioners live in Spain,” replied the bewildered Wormald, who couldn’t see what the fuss was about. “62?” Hillier repeated incredulously. “We are not the retirement place of choice,” Wormald explained........

With the possible exception of the RoI, I am confident that some thorough research will show similar proportions for other EU states.

 

If you really believe the facts I have quoted and provided evidence to substantiate are misleading, provide your own evidence to show it.

 

I did not respond to pegman's post as it was:-

1. Answering a question you had asked; why did I need to answer it as well?
2. Even though the figures for both British citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK he linked to are lower than previous estimates (all such figures are estimates) I had no reason to dispute them because, as I say at the beginning of this post, I have never said, or even insinuated, that there are far more UK citizens living in the EU than EU citizens living in the UK! 

15 hours ago, nontabury said:

What the British people need, is to accept the democratic vote of the people, and get behind The government.

I fully agree; and most, though admittedly not all, Remainers think the same.

 

What I can't understand, though, is why so many Brexiteers continue to campaign against the EU.

 

They won, we are leaving;  the time for campaigning is over, now is the time, as you say, to get behind the government in the negotiations.

 

As I said before, as the realities of Brexit become more and more apparent it seems that many Brexiteers are desperately trying to convince themselves that they made the right decision in June 2016.