Two German tourists stabbed to death on Egyptian beach

[rooster59]

Two German tourists stabbed to death on Egyptian beach

By Mohamed Abdellah and Ahmed Tolba

 

A security personnel detains the man who stabbed two German tourists to death and wounded four others during an attack at the Zahabia hotel resort in Hurghada, south of the capital Cairo, Egypt, July 14, 2017. REUTERS/Mohamed Aly

 

CAIRO (Reuters) - An Egyptian man stabbed two German tourists to death and wounded four others on Friday at a popular seaside vacation spot on the Red Sea, after apparently searching out foreigners to attack, officials and witnesses said.

 

The knifeman killed the two German women and wounded two other tourists at the Zahabia hotel in Hurghada, then swam to a neighbouring beach to attack at least two more people at the Sunny Days El Palacio resort before being caught by staff and arrested, officials and security sources said.

 

It was the first major attack on foreign tourists since a similar assault on the same resort more than a year ago, and comes as Egypt struggles to revive a tourism industry hurt by security threats and years of political upheaval.

 

"He had a knife with him and stabbed each of them three times in the chest. They died on the beach," the security manager at the El Palacio hotel, Saud Abdelaziz, told Reuters.

 

"He jumped a wall between the hotels and swam to the other beach."

 

Abdelaziz said two of the injured were Czech and two Armenian, but other officials said one of the women was Russian. They were being treated a local hospital. The Czech Foreign Ministry tweeted that one Czech woman had sustained a minor leg injury.

 

The German Foreign Ministry said it had no definite information, but could not rule out that German citizens were among the victims. The German Embassy in Cairo was working closely with the authorities, a ministry spokesman said.

 

ISLAMIST INSURGENCY

 

The attacker's motive was still under investigation, the Interior Ministry said.

 

"He was looking for foreigners and he didn't want any Egyptians," said one member of staff at the Zahabia Hotel.

 

Egypt is fighting Islamist insurgents in the Sinai Peninsula, where they mainly target security forces, but militants have also attacked tourist targets in the past, as well as Coptic Christians and churches.

 

Hurghada, some 400 km (250 miles) south of the capital Cairo, is one of Egypt's most popular vacation spots on the Red Sea.

 

In January 2016, two assailants armed with a gun, a knife and a suicide belt landed on the beach of a hotel in Hurghada, and wounded two foreign tourists.

 

Egypt has been hoping that investments in airport security and the cheaper Egyptian pound will bring tourist visits to its beaches and ancient sites back up to levels seen before its 2011 uprising.

 

The industry, a crucial source of hard currency, has struggled since then with years of political turmoil and mass protests, as well as the fallout from the crash of a jet taking Russian holidaymakers home from the Egyptian Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh in October 2015, in which 224 people died. Islamic State said it had brought the plane down with a bomb.

 

Friday's attack came on a day that five policemen were killed by gunmen on a motorbike who ambushed their car just south of Cairo.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-15

[rosst]

How utterly tragic for the victims and the families who rely on the resorts to live. 

[Grubster]

You will not see me in any Muslim country, and that is narrowing my travel options more and more with the addition of Sweden, Norway, France, England, Germany and more.

[overherebc]

Having worked there and other countries nearby I would never consider any of them for a holiday.

Just don't see the appeal. Camels I can see in a zoo not that I contemplate going to a zoo either.

[Grubster]

33 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

I am sure they wouldn't want an old bigot anyway :)

Maybe not and they can live with the new way of life that will be forced down their throats, I don't care and won't weep for them when they start crying about it. Some of us admit that we are racist and anti this or that, others just lie through their teeth about it.

[ddavidovsky]

Psychologists should to talk to this guy and find out exactly what is the nature of his grievance against random westerners. It's probably something subconscious he hasn't rationalised himself. He may think it's just 'jihad' but there has to be something underlying that because for most of history jihad hasn't been an issue.

 

It's clear enough to me, but evidently few people have a clear understanding of the matter, and certainly the politicians haven't a clue. Scientific investigation into the underlying cause would be useful so the world knows how to tackle it. I haven't seen a lucid analysis of what their grievance is.

[metisdead]

Off topic trolling posts and replies have been removed. 

[Seismic]

42 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Psychologists should to talk to this guy and find out exactly what is the nature of his grievance against random westerners. It's probably something subconscious he hasn't rationalised himself. He may think it's just 'jihad' but there has to be something underlying that because for most of history jihad hasn't been an issue.

 

 

I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not but for much of its history Islam has almost always been at war or conquering other countries and the sole justification for these attacks is Jihad.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

Psychologists should to talk to this guy and find out exactly what is the nature of his grievance against random westerners. It's probably something subconscious he hasn't rationalised himself. He may think it's just 'jihad' but there has to be something underlying that because for most of history jihad hasn't been an issue.

 

It's clear enough to me, but evidently few people have a clear understanding of the matter, and certainly the politicians haven't a clue. Scientific investigation into the underlying cause would be useful so the world knows how to tackle it. I haven't seen a lucid analysis of what their grievance is.

 

Not sure many of the people who carry out this have a deep understanding or grievances that are rational or can be reasoned with.

 

Many are simply brain washed by religious zealots into believing their religion is under threat and that by fighting representatives of the oppressors they are engaging in Jihad and will receive their reward in heaven.

 

Hence the randomness of their attacks and total lack of mercy for women, children, elderly or infirmed.

[ResandePohm]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Thailand has a minority Muslim population. It definitely isn't a Muslim country. Thailand is as Buddhist a country as it gets. 

Thailand is just as muslim as the european countries mentioned by Grubster I e. Sweden, Norway, France, England, Germany and more.

I was trying to reflect how absurd his statement was/is.

Sorry you didnt understand that.

[ddavidovsky]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not sure many of the people who carry out this have a deep understanding or grievances that are rational or can be reasoned with.

 

Many are simply brain washed by religious zealots into believing their religion is under threat and that by fighting representatives of the oppressors they are engaging in Jihad and will receive their reward in heaven.

 

Hence the randomness of their attacks and total lack of mercy for women, children, elderly or infirmed.

Well, my assertion is that this is not just generic 'jihad' but that there is a quite distinct grievance that's eating away at the  Muslim psyche, though it's not immediately obvious to the Muslims or anyone else because of all the psychological and religious overlay - not to mention the insecurities and prejudices of the west that prevents them seeing it objectively - the west are too busy identifying themselves as victims. 

That's why these terrorists need to be psychologically analysed, to winkle the true nature of the grievance out of them.

 

If you're familiar with my posts you'll know that I have elucidated this already - there is no mystery about it in my mind - but as the politicians aren't reading ThaiVisa, my chances of the Nobel Peace Prize are slim. There needs to be some published scientific studies, otherwise, without clear understanding of the nature of Muslim's grievance against the west, these attacks will go on.

[ddavidovsky]

3 hours ago, Seismic said:

I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not but for much of its history Islam has almost always been at war or conquering other countries and the sole justification for these attacks is Jihad.

Consider that 'jihad' wasn't an issue before 9/11. That is, anti-western jihad. Islam has lived in peace with the west for a long time. It's only recently that anti-western sentiment has taken off. The west needs to understand why the grievance now exists. They need to look to themselves.

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Consider that 'jihad' wasn't an issue before 9/11. That is, anti-western jihad. Islam has lived in peace with the west for a long time. It's only recently that anti-western sentiment has taken off. The west needs to understand why the grievance now exists. They need to look to themselves.

Oh please!

 

[observer90210]

6 hours ago, Grubster said:

Maybe not and they can live with the new way of life that will be forced down their throats, I don't care and won't weep for them when they start crying about it. Some of us admit that we are racist and anti this or that, others just lie through their teeth about it.

So your confession of the day is that you are a racist?

[overherebc]

As much as you guys go on about the history of christians against muslims etc etc I don'think it was too long ago that most of the world was fighting Germany and Japan. Seems to me nowadays that the Germans Japanese and the rest can sit down and talk to each other. There may be some differences on trade agreements etc etc but I can't remember any cases of Japanese or Germans driving buses lorries and cars into people going about their daily lives. Could this be because of education or just a situation where some races today can actually discuss things in a intelligent manner and some races can't.

A lot of it has to do with trying, by the west to educate people who were, because of western do gooders saved from starvation when they were very young and had spenttoo long without nutrition to properly develop intellectually and the cause of their condition is down to their leaders who skimmed/stole donations from other countries.

How to fix the situation I have no idea.

The only thing I will say is that government and scientific studies will produce nothing more than piles of useless paperwork and absolutely no solution, well it might make a few charity leaders richer.

[Scott]

More off-topic posts removed.  

[Seismic]

5 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Consider that 'jihad' wasn't an issue before 9/11. That is, anti-western jihad. Islam has lived in peace with the west for a long time. It's only recently that anti-western sentiment has taken off. The west needs to understand why the grievance now exists. They need to look to themselves.

Again, where on earth do you get these assertions??. Islam has never lived in peace with the west in its 1500+ year history. While it may have reduced its blatant aggression against sovereign countries, this is mainly due to the military might of those countries. Islam has a major problem in that it claims the Quran to be the word of god, and as such cannot be changed (unlike the bible which is pretty much unrecognisable from one written 500 years ago). also to a large extent the hadith is treated the same way. While outright military aggression may have been put on the back burner since the early 20th century, that does not excuse the marginalisation and blatant aggression suffered by non muslims in Egypt, Lebanon, East Timor, Irian Jaya, Pakistan, Sudan and many muslim majority areas of other countries.  You seem to be searching for a "grievance" as if that will excuse islam of its barbaric past, rather like someone shouting No No ! Not the Comfy Chair in the middle of a court of the inquisition.

[simple1]

7 hours ago, Seismic said:

Again, where on earth do you get these assertions??. Islam has never lived in peace with the west in its 1500+ year history. While it may have reduced its blatant aggression against sovereign countries, this is mainly due to the military might of those countries. Islam has a major problem in that it claims the Quran to be the word of god, and as such cannot be changed (unlike the bible which is pretty much unrecognisable from one written 500 years ago). also to a large extent the hadith is treated the same way. While outright military aggression may have been put on the back burner since the early 20th century, that does not excuse the marginalisation and blatant aggression suffered by non muslims in Egypt, Lebanon, East Timor, Irian Jaya, Pakistan, Sudan and many muslim majority areas of other countries.  You seem to be searching for a "grievance" as if that will excuse islam of its barbaric past, rather like someone shouting No No ! Not the Comfy Chair in the middle of a court of the inquisition.

Whilst generally I do not agree with the "poor me" view of Muslim violence, IMO more associated with the methods of dictatorship / corruption, one can fine the seeds of resentment with Western country policies of active interference, in historically recent times, from the 19th century onward. These days it seems most of the Islamist actions are by supporters of Islamic State, whose, alleged, main core idealism is based upon a Sunni version of the Islamic Apocalypse. 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[ddavidovsky]

12 hours ago, Seismic said:

Again, where on earth do you get these assertions??. Islam has never lived in peace with the west in its 1500+ year history. While it may have reduced its blatant aggression against sovereign countries, this is mainly due to the military might of those countries. Islam has a major problem in that it claims the Quran to be the word of god, and as such cannot be changed (unlike the bible which is pretty much unrecognisable from one written 500 years ago). also to a large extent the hadith is treated the same way. While outright military aggression may have been put on the back burner since the early 20th century, that does not excuse the marginalisation and blatant aggression suffered by non muslims in Egypt, Lebanon, East Timor, Irian Jaya, Pakistan, Sudan and many muslim majority areas of other countries.  You seem to be searching for a "grievance" as if that will excuse islam of its barbaric past, rather like someone shouting No No ! Not the Comfy Chair in the middle of a court of the inquisition.

I'm not looking for a grievance - I know exactly what is the cause of their low self-esteem. I seem to be the only one who understands.

 

My assertion comes from empirical observation, plenty of reading, and extensive travels in Muslim countries before 9/11 when I found them almost excessively friendly and welcoming. The only place I met any hostility at all was at Hebron in the West Bank, where youths threw stones at me in the street and I had to run for it. They presumably thought I was Jewish, but that's perhaps a clue for you.

 

And consider this: any group that has sufficient grievance will contain extreme elements who become terrorists. Even westerners. Remember Northern Ireland? They were British terrorists, bombing and murdering innocent victims. It's done because of a grievance. The west had better get over its own sense of insecurity and victimhood and start understanding the root cause of Muslim grievance or these attacks will carry on.

 

I have a peaceable solution to stop the terrorism. I'm explained it many times and am not going to do so again here or people will start screaming that it's off topic. Do you have a practical, workable solution? Don't bother replying if you don't.

 

[overherebc]

17 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I'm not looking for a grievance - I know exactly what is the cause of their low self-esteem. I seem to be the only one who understands.

 

My assertion comes from empirical observation, plenty of reading, and extensive travels in Muslim countries before 9/11 when I found them almost excessively friendly and welcoming. The only place I met any hostility at all was at Hebron in the West Bank, where youths threw stones at me in the street and I had to run for it. They presumably thought I was Jewish, but that's perhaps a clue for you.

 

And consider this: any group that has sufficient grievance will contain extreme elements who become terrorists. Even westerners. Remember Northern Ireland? They were British terrorists, bombing and murdering innocent victims. It's done because of a grievance. The west had better get over its own sense of insecurity and victimhood and start understanding the root cause of Muslim grievance or these attacks will carry on.

 

I have a peaceable solution to stop the terrorism. I'm explained it many times and am not going to do so again here or people will start screaming that it's off topic. Do you have a practical, workable solution? Don't bother replying if you don't.

 

You are correct about NI but, although innocents were killed and injured it was never the intention of the IRA, if they had got into power,  to enforce religious beliefs and middle ages laws on people, refuse education to women and stone them to death if they didn't cover up in public. 

Their actions were wrong of course, no one can deny that.

As for a working solution to the muslim terrorist problem, no-one has a solution.

It will be long time before it changes and no number of studies and so called political discussions will help in any way.

Edited July 16, 2017 by overherebc

[ddavidovsky]

28 minutes ago, overherebc said:

As for a working solution to the muslim terrorist problem, no-one has a solution.

It will be long time before it changes and no number of studies and so called political discussions will help in any way.

I have a solution. It only requires political will on the part of western politicians. It won't happen yet - because they don't yet understand the root cause of the situation. Sociological studies will help. The quicker this is addressed, the less terrorism the west will have to endure. Eventually the west will get so fed up that they will realise the status quo is untenable. Once they fully understand, they will know that it's the only solution. It involves Palestine.

 

Everyone else's solution - including everyone on here - is to whine in the hope that they stop it and be nice. The more you whine, the more they win. Their aim is to make you whine so as to bring about change. The west's sense of victimisation has to stop. They need to see it not as 'terrorism' (which is a victim's perspective), but as 'grievancism' and address it. You don't like that? Very well, carry on as before. I'll just sit and watch the carnage.

[dick dasterdly]

On 7/15/2017 at 9:52 AM, rosst said:

How utterly tragic for the victims and the families who rely on the resorts to live. 

Egypt has been known as a possibly dangerous holiday destination for decades as there have been random, murderous attacks resulting in tourist deaths.

 

Fortunately they are few and far between - not that this is any consolation to the murdered tourists or their families....

[Jingthing]

I have a solution. It only requires political will on the part of western politicians. It won't happen yet - because they don't yet understand the root cause of the situation. Sociological studies will help. The quicker this is addressed, the less terrorism the west will have to endure. Eventually the west will get so fed up that they will realise the status quo is untenable. Once they fully understand, they will know that it's the only solution. It involves Palestine.

 

Everyone else's solution - including everyone on here - is to whine in the hope that they stop it and be nice. The more you whine, the more they win. Their aim is to make you whine so as to bring about change. The west's sense of victimisation has to stop. They need to see it not as 'terrorism' (which is a victim's perspective), but as 'grievancism' and address it. You don't like that? Very well, carry on as before. I'll just sit and watch the carnage.

Aha. There it is. The predictable pivot. Blaming all Islamic Jihadist terrorism on Israel.

[Jingthing]

Egypt has been known as a possibly dangerous holiday destination for decades as there have been random, murderous attacks resulting in tourist deaths.
 
Fortunately they are few and far between - not that this is any consolation to the murdered tourists or their families....

Yes it's a bargain for a reason but there are a lot of destinations like that. Arguably Thailand which does not have much of a terrorism risk for tourists but compensates with assorted other safety risks.

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes it's a bargain for a reason but there are a lot of destinations like that. Arguably Thailand which does not have much of a terrorism risk for tourists but compensates with assorted other safety risks.

Why do you think holidays in Egypt are "a bargain"?

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why do you think holidays in Egypt are "a bargain"?

I was talking about the beach thing specifically. 

Relative value for the standard of accommodations/beach attractions to more stable nations. Are you seriously asking or didn't you know about that? 

People booking Egypt beach generally would know (or should know) about terrorism risk. 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[worgeordie]

Lived in Hurghada for 6 months,about 40 years ago,it was only a little village, 

with one hotel further down the coast,no problem with anyone,how the World

has changed,just glad I did my travelling when I was younger.

regards Worgeordie

[tomwct]

I would not go to Egypt without my 45! At least I could defend myself and if they get me at least I tried! In reality, I have no need to ever go to Egypt or any other Muslim country!

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I was talking about the beach thing specifically. 

Relative value for the standard of accommodations/beach attractions to more stable nations. Are you seriously asking or didn't you know about that? 

People booking Egypt beach generally would know (or should know) about terrorism risk. 

 

Egypt is cheap 'cos the cost of living there is low.

 

I've visited Egypt a few times, although mostly on diving live-aboard holidays - and they weren't 'cheap'.

 

The prices on land were far less expensive - but this had everything to do with the cheaper 'cost of living, and bugger all to do with the fact that it was a less stable /possibly dangerous holiday destination!

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Egypt is cheap 'cos the cost of living there is low.

 

I've visited Egypt a few times, although mostly on diving live-aboard holidays - and they weren't 'cheap'.

 

The prices on land were far less expensive - but this had everything to do with the cheaper 'cost of living, and bugger all to do with the fact that it was a less stable /possibly dangerous holiday destination!

It's a mix, dude.

Like after a resort has a major terror event, you will find that packages will then be offered at a  DEEP discount to rebuild confidence.

Tourism destinations are selling a bunch of stuff and all kinds of perceived safety are part of what they're selling.

 

To add, tourism is an international market and destinations are selling a PRODUCT.

 

Beach resorts are a more GENERIC product widely available all over the world at different price points.

When shopping you can look at the pros and cons, and one of the cons might be terrorism risk. 

 

When nations have UNIQUE attractions such as the pyramids in Egypt they've got more persistent pricing power and yes some people will even risk their lives to go to such attractions because it's usually a once in a lifetime thing. I've met people booking historical Egypt right after major terrorist attacks and massive travel advisories saying don't go now. 

 

It's all in the mix. 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Jingthing