Roads, just how bad are they built

[tryasimight]

I'm no civil engineer (electrical aactually)but I did scrounge some "red clay' from a road works widening construction. The engineer told me the red dirt was 5% cement and to be honest it has packed down beautifully. Don't judge what you see as what you think/interpret it is.  

I do realise this board is reserved for the British and their God given right to whine about  everything Thai and about the lack of black pudding but believe me not all Thai engineers are stupid.

[grollies]

For <deleted> sake, not this old chestnut again.

 

I drove from Chon Buri to Chang Mai and back within 3 days this last week. Roads were pretty good all the way. Our roads round here are great and I'll take some photos for you if you like.

 

Just having a new stretch of road put in round the corner. They used a train of water truck, blower, layer and compactor to lay the sub base. Drove it today, hard as nails. I'll post up a photo of the black top when it goes down.

 

Just the usual TVF Thai bashing. And, of course there's no corruption in the UK, ask anyone trying to draw-down a pension.

 

And at £10m per mile for a motorway in the UK you think nothing is being siphoned-off by corrupt roadbuilders/govt/planners......please.

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

I'm no civil engineer (electrical aactually)but I did scrounge some "red clay' from a road works widening construction. The engineer told me the red dirt was 5% cement and to be honest it has packed down beautifully. Don't judge what you see as what you think/interpret it is.  

I do realise this board is reserved for the British and their God given right to whine about  everything Thai and about the lack of black pudding but believe me not all Thai engineers are stupid.

 

That red laterite mixed with lime or cement can be every bit as hard as a rock base...if you set it with exactly the right amount of moisture and afterwards you completely seal it to keep it dry. The problem is, once excess water starts seeping in the whole thing starts to decay. And most Thai construction workers don't really understand the physics of what they are doing, so they don't do it right to begin with. Then, they don't seal it properly, and that is what leads to the roads deteriorating over time.

 

It is a less expensive way of making a road that could be every bit as good as the conventional way done in the West, but it requires a skilled contractor to do it. In Thailand unfortunately, they choose the cheap materials AND the cheap contractor. There is the essence of the problem.

 

 

 

[grollies]

4 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

That red laterite mixed with lime or cement can be every bit as hard as a rock base...if you set it with exactly the right amount of moisture and afterwards you completely seal it to keep it dry. The problem is, once excess water starts seeping in the whole thing starts to decay. And most Thai construction workers don't really understand the physics of what they are doing, so they don't do it right to begin with. Then, they don't seal it properly, and that is what leads to the roads deteriorating over time.

 

It is a less expensive way of making a road that could be every bit as good as the conventional way done in the West, but it requires a skilled contractor to do it. In Thailand unfortunately, they choose the cheap materials AND the cheap contractor. There is the essence of the problem.

 

 

 

There are no potholes in the UK, Europe and USA because of the brilliant understanding of physics, engineering and construction talent. 

[tso310]

6 hours ago, grollies said:

There are no potholes in the UK, Europe and USA because of the brilliant understanding of physics, engineering and construction talent. 

Normally I would found that funny but my wife is completely unable to avoid them in the UK. They must be magnetic. She managed to crack one of the front suspension springs recently.

[fullcave]

Not even using wiremade is a complete waste of resources. The official in charge of allocating the tax funds (after taking his cut) should be transferred to an inactive post. 

[NanLaew]

19 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Rogue Water,  I'll try to take a guess on this one? 

It is putting in drains that lead to no where, which is what happen a number of years ago I saw them doing on Soi Siam, around the area soi 13- up to 22? 

This is what you see, over 2 years ago around the electrical station when they wanted to put in new drains, as they punch into the old road they started to find basically sink holes of water ( Rogue water ) this is what they found again outside the market at Wanasin, the more they punch the farther down they had to go, the punching is going backwards now to Soi 13, which is where all the water ends coming down from Soi 22, top where the mini lotus and 7/11 traffic light.

For years the water run down from S-22, to this area which had no drains it had to do something, "Rogue Water"?

Main subterranean aquifer. Been there since well before Pattaya was 'discovered by GI's on R&R from Vietnam' as well.

 

Since all work has ceased on solving the SSCC 'rogue water' issue, one would hope they would do some serious work to define what is required to define the extents of the aquifer using proven technologies such as ground-penetrating radar and analysis of satellite data. Unfortunately, surveys of this magnitude wouldn't come cheap and the fact that there are so many roads and buildings constructed over the area is very challenging. Punching holes just doesn't do it. I think the extents of knowledge and expertise in LOS is limited to drilling holes to check for basic groundwater determination (like they do before selecting depth of piles and size of footings on any load-bearing structures) but there's no way to assess the volume of water and more importantly, the flow rates. However, based on what's been witnessed on SSCC, they will start 'punching' around the tunnel exit for as long as it takes to also file it under the 'too hard' category.

[johna]

 

 

Thailand HOUSE TOUR - Do You Want to Buy a House in Thailand?

[LongTimeLurker]

On 7/15/2017 at 6:45 PM, NanLaew said:

OK, that's two poorly constructed roads...

 

 

To be fair to the contractor, it may not be his poor construction, he may just be building the road to the specification given by the engineer.

 

That would make it a poorly designed road.

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

To be fair to the contractor, it may not be his poor construction, he may just be building the road to the specification given by the engineer.

 

That would make it a poorly designed road.

In turn, the engineer could simply be meeting the low-order aspirations of some local government wonk.

 

That would make it an ill-conceived plan.

[bheard]

Thailand cannot afford all these expensive road bases, and rebar
 
I guess you haven't been in Thailand long enough to know the reality, but to say Thailand cannot afford is ludicrous. Thailand is very rich, but for reasons those of us that have been here for a bit longer than you know they won't spend it on infrastructure.

Quite so. Thailand is not poor. Just keep your eyes open while walking around to see wealth.
It's a matter of Thai priorities as to where and how money is spent. Different thinking to a farang.
Also it's the 'big man' system. Money allocated to infrastructure is handled in such a way to as ensure all the hands it passes through on the way get a share and by the time it gets to actually build the road there is not enough left to do a good job.
Get out in the sticks and you see even major through roads built this way - red dirt, pack it down a bit, then bitumen straight on top. Within 2 weeks it's got holes. I've seen this many times.

[berybert]

They cant manage to build pavements that don't fall apart or have holes in them, do you expect roads to be built right ?

[rickudon]

Oh, just another case. The Udon Thani ring road got it's annual makeover just before the wet season. A stretch near me APPEARED to be being well built, saw metalwork going in and used concrete below the tarmac, took over 2 months to do.. Drove along it today - already deformed into 2 broad ruts in the inside lane and the centre swelling up. So lasted 3 months. Does that count as good?

[brling]

On 7/16/2017 at 2:50 PM, grollies said:

For <deleted> sake, not this old chestnut again.

 

I drove from Chon Buri to Chang Mai and back within 3 days this last week. Roads were pretty good all the way. Our roads round here are great and I'll take some photos for you if you like.

 

Just having a new stretch of road put in round the corner. They used a train of water truck, blower, layer and compactor to lay the sub base. Drove it today, hard as nails. I'll post up a photo of the black top when it goes down.

 

Just the usual TVF Thai bashing. And, of course there's no corruption in the UK, ask anyone trying to draw-down a pension.

 

And at £10m per mile for a motorway in the UK you think nothing is being siphoned-off by corrupt roadbuilders/govt/planners......please.

You are on the wrong forum Mr. apologist. This is not a UK forum.

[grollies]

20 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Oh, just another case. The Udon Thani ring road got it's annual makeover just before the wet season. A stretch near me APPEARED to be being well built, saw metalwork going in and used concrete below the tarmac, took over 2 months to do.. Drove along it today - already deformed into 2 broad ruts in the inside lane and the centre swelling up. So lasted 3 months. Does that count as good?

Problem is people like our neighbour, not road construction. He pays the police to ship 70 tonnes of casava per load and the wagons travel at night. Most roads won't stand that.

[kaorop]

On 16/7/2017 at 2:36 PM, themerg said:

  I am an American. I use to live in upstate New York in snow, and cold country. Every year we have springtime pothole season.

All the technology in the world can not stop Mother Nature. Everybody fighting Mother Nature will eventually lose.

Quit the complaining. Go back home to your country if you don't like it.

Your home country is loosing the battle with Mother Nature just as my home country is.

Water destroys rock.

Things are done differently here and Thailand cannot afford all these expensive road bases, and rebar, and your other complaint filled items. I LOVE THAILAND. Love it or leave it.

the rose color makes everything lovely

and lol

that over played lame and pointless "go home if you dont like it"

 

get  back   to     us      when       you         have             been            here                 longer                     than                         5 mins

[Ulic]

Depends on your point of reference on how well built you think they are. The road construction

companies think they are constructed to perfection. Planned obsolesce. The poor quality construction

leads to plenty of repair contracts so job security.

[grollies]

17 hours ago, Ulic said:

Depends on your point of reference on how well built you think they are. The road construction

companies think they are constructed to perfection. Planned obsolesce. The poor quality construction

leads to plenty of repair contracts so job security.

UK roads are under 'warranty' from the contractors and repairs within a certain period at their cost.