France's Macron shares Israel's concerns about Lebanon's Hezbollah

[webfact]

France's Macron shares Israel's concerns about Lebanon's Hezbollah

 

French President Emmanuel Macron and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu react after making a joint declaration at the Elysee Palace in Paris, France, July 16, 2017. REUTERS/Stephane Mahe

 

PARIS (Reuters) - France shares Israel's concerns at the arming of Lebanese Shi'ite group Hezbollah, President Emmanuel Macron told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu after their first formal meeting in Paris on Sunday.

 

Tensions have risen between Hezbollah and its longtime foe Israel since Donald Trump became U.S. president with his tough talk against Iran. The Iran-backed group's rocket arsenal can hit any military target in the Jewish state, its chief said last month.

 

"I share Israeli concerns on the arming of Hezbollah in southern Lebanon," Macron told reporters on Sunday, alongside Netanyahu. "We seek Lebanon's stability with due regard to all minorities," he said.

 

The French president reiterated that he would support any initiative seeking the resumption of negotiations of the peace process in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which has been frozen for three years.

 

He confirmed France's long-held policy that favours a two-state solution with Jerusalem as the capital for the Palestinian state and Israel and said he would visit Israel "in the coming months", at the invitation of the Israeli prime minister.

 

Netanyahu, who is looking to turn a new page with France after resisting attempts led last year by Macron's predecessor Francois Hollande to restart the peace process via an international conference, said Israel and France shared a desire to see "a stable and peaceful Middle-East."

 

The one-hour long meeting between the two leaders at the Elysee palace followed a commemoration of a mass arrest of Jews in Paris during World War Two. It was the first commemoration of this kind to be attended by an Israeli prime minister.

 

The arrest, called "rafle du Vel d'Hiv," refers to the Nazi-ordered roundup by French police in the Velodrome d'Hiver cycling stadium of 13,000 Jews, who were then deported to Auschwitz concentration camp in July 1942.

 

France’s invitation was a "very, very powerful gesture", Netanyahu said in French.

 

Macron addressed Netanyahu with his nickname "Bibi" at the start of his speech at the commemoration ceremony. He said that anti-Zionism was a "reinvented form of anti-Semitism", a remark that brought praise from Netanyahu.

 

(Reporting by Marine Pennetier and Mathieu Rosemain,; Additional reporting by Jeffrey Heller in Jerusalem; Editing by Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-17

[dexterm]

I wonder if Macron realizes the irony of rightly condemning the inhuman racism of Vichy France, then in the next breath cosying up to the racist apartheid state of Israel.

 

Macron is either ignorant of 100 years of Zionist oppression of Palestinians (I doubt it) or he is a Zionist stooge (check his career background).

 

Of course anti Zionism and anti Semitism are different things. Judaism is a religion. Zionism is a hateful racist supremacist political movement.

 

I hope on his visit to Israel "in the coming months" he also visits the West Bank and Gaza to witness how his new buddies treat 4.5 million Palestinians under 50 years of brutal occupation.

 

So much for ...liberté fraternité égalité

Edited July 17, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

 

Yet another hate filled nothing post meant to include as many negative descriptors as possible.

[Jingthing]

Kudos to Macron for speaking the great truth that anti-Zionism is another form of anti-semitism. A breath of fresh air from France. 

 

So many vile racist Jew haters and/or Israel demonizers hide behind the cover of anti-Zionism. They need to be SMOKED OUT. 

 

I definitely don't agree with everything from Netanyahu or from Macron but credit where credit is due in this case. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

Macron's conflation of anti Zionism with anti Semitism is part of an insidious worldwide attempt by Zionist activists to muddy the waters in order to deflect legitimate criticism of Israel by playing the "you're a racist" card, played out on N American campuses and European cities over the last few years as well as on this forum.

 

I am anti Zionist because  the racist ideology Zionism promotes a preferentially Jewish state and Israel's near exclusive Jewish immigration policy and a whole slew of racially motivated laws to maintain Jewish demographic and thus power superiority, at the expense of the indigenous Palestinian population.

 

Not all Zionists are Jews.
Many US Zionists are evangelical Christians.
Not even all Israeli Jews are Zionists.
And certainly not all Jews are Zionists

 

You just have to read a few of the articles in this week's Jews for Justice for Palestinians newsletter to see the pattern epitomised by Macron.

 

Scottish court refutes charge of antisemitism
http://jfjfp.com/?p=93715
Israel should stop trying to wall out its critics
http://jfjfp.com/?p=93636
Small war at SF university
http://jfjfp.com/?p=93700

[dexterm]

Looking at the rest of Macron's speech. Why does he aim his criticism at Iranian supported Hezbollah, when the attacks on French soil have all been perpetrated by Saudi inspired Sunni terrorists.

 

Why does Trump visit Saudi Arabia and Israel and again the whole focus is on criticism Iran who had just held relatively free elections.

 

Seems to me we are being softened up for an eventual attack on Iran, just as we were previously with Iraq to accommodate Israel aims. 

[Morch]

 

And not all  Zionists conform to your extreme view and twisted presentation. A point habitually ignored in your posts. Addressing such nuances would rob your rants of their frothing vehemence, hence it must be avoided at all costs.

[ilostmypassword]

16 hours ago, dexterm said:

I wonder if Macron realizes the irony of rightly condemning the inhuman racism of Vichy France, then in the next breath cosying up to the racist apartheid state of Israel.

 

Macron is either ignorant of 100 years of Zionist oppression of Palestinians (I doubt it) or he is a Zionist stooge (check his career background).

 

Of course anti Zionism and anti Semitism are different things. Judaism is a religion. Zionism is a hateful racist supremacist political movement.

 

I hope on his visit to Israel "in the coming months" he also visits the West Bank and Gaza to witness how his new buddies treat 4.5 million Palestinians under 50 years of brutal occupation.

 

So much for ...liberté fraternité égalité

I agree that anti-zionism and anti-semitism are not the same thing and that it's perfectly possible to be against the idea of a Jewish state and not be an anti-semite. It's a pity that you aren't capable of that. Your reference to Macron's career - his only private employer was Rothschild & Cie., proves beyond question your bigotry.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Looking at the rest of Macron's speech. Why does he aim his criticism at Iranian supported Hezbollah, when the attacks on French soil have all been perpetrated by Saudi inspired Sunni terrorists.

 

Why does Trump visit Saudi Arabia and Israel and again the whole focus is on criticism Iran who had just held relatively free elections.

 

Seems to me we are being softened up for an eventual attack on Iran, just as we were previously with Iraq to accommodate Israel aims. 

 

Because the topic discussed were not necessarily those you wish to focus on, but those which are relevant to relations between the countries and their interests. Once again, not an either/or situation, a concept which you seem to be having some difficulty grasping. Discussing Hezbollah with the Israeli Prime Minister does not come at the expense of addressing Sunni-inspired terrorism in Europe.

 

Trump is not really the issue here, but granted, that shouldn't give you pause.

 

Seems to me you are engaging in yet another unfounded "doomsday" prediction, and obviously, need to pepper it with some conspiracy theory garbage.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Morch

[dexterm]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And not all  Zionists conform to your extreme view and twisted presentation. A point habitually ignored in your posts. Addressing such nuances would rob your rants of their frothing vehemence, hence it must be avoided at all costs.

My definition of Zionism is the predominant one espoused by the founders of Zionism, the current Israeli government and Israeli opposition and all the Zionists I am aware of.

 

It would be very helpful to the discussion if you actually defined what you believe Zionism to be (something you have never done), before criticizing others.

[dexterm]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I agree that anti-zionism and anti-semitism are not the same thing and that it's perfectly possible to be against the idea of a Jewish state and not be an anti-semite. It's a pity that you aren't capable of that. Your reference to Macron's career - his only private employer was Rothschild & Cie., proves beyond question your bigotry.

The Rothschild Banking Group helped to finance the Zionist state of Israel, they built the Knesset and Israeli Supreme court on stolen Palestinian land.

 

Macron paid 50,000 euros to excuse himself to go and work for them as a merchant banker. It is not a tremendous stretch of the imagination to assume where his loyalties lie..to the banking group that finances Zionism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family#Jewish_identity_and_positions_on_Zionism

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

My definition of Zionism is the predominant one espoused by the founders of Zionism, the current Israeli government and Israeli opposition and all the Zionists I am aware of.

 

It would be very helpful to the discussion if you actually defined what you believe Zionism to be (something you have never done), before criticizing others.

 

Pushing nonsense as usual. There is no full convergence between as suggested between your "definition", those of Zionism's founders, the current Israeli governments' and Israeli opposition.

 

You are not here for any sort of discussion, but to propagate an extreme political position. The same tired argument about definitions is just another tool used to deploy more of your rants. I've actually made my position on this rather clear - that there is no unified common definition of Zionism such as you claim, and that even the real life adherence to such definitions is a doubtful proposition.

 

With regard to the issue of anti-Zionism being equated with antisemitism, again - sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. I don't see all the criticism directed at Zionism as indicating antisemitic sentiments, and on the other hand, there's no denying that there is a significant convergence.

[Morch]

Just now, dexterm said:

The Rothschild Banking Group helped to finance the Zionist state of Israel, they built the Knesset and Israeli Supreme court on stolen Palestinian land.

 

Macron paid 50,000 euros to excuse himself to go and work for them as a merchant banker. It is not a tremendous stretch of the imagination to assume where his loyalties lie..to the banking group that finances Zionism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family#Jewish_identity_and_positions_on_Zionism

 

And yet, Marcon does not and did not condone Netanyahu's government policies vs. the Palestinians, stalling peace process efforts or construction in the West Bank. But you'd mark him as suspect by his former association. Well done making the point.

[dexterm]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Pushing nonsense as usual. There is no full convergence between as suggested between your "definition", those of Zionism's founders, the current Israeli governments' and Israeli opposition.

 

You are not here for any sort of discussion, but to propagate an extreme political position. The same tired argument about definitions is just another tool used to deploy more of your rants. I've actually made my position on this rather clear - that there is no unified common definition of Zionism such as you claim, and that even the real life adherence to such definitions is a doubtful proposition.

 

With regard to the issue of anti-Zionism being equated with antisemitism, again - sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. I don't see all the criticism directed at Zionism as indicating antisemitic sentiments, and on the other hand, there's no denying that there is a significant convergence.

>>There is no full convergence between as suggested between your "definition", those of Zionism's founders, the current Israeli governments' and Israeli opposition.

As usual you criticize others' but refuse to define Zionism yourself. 

 

Well maybe you should be telling Macron, Netanyahu and the Israeli opposition who call themselves the Zionist Union that. They seem to know what they mean by Zionism unlike yourself.

[dexterm]

46 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And yet, Marcon does not and did not condone Netanyahu's government policies vs. the Palestinians, stalling peace process efforts or construction in the West Bank. But you'd mark him as suspect by his former association. Well done making the point.

European and US governments have been saying the same for decades. Israel absolutely loves it. It's part of theirs and probably Macron's stalling game.

 

Israel can weather  the words; troubling, unsettling ,unhelpful, may not help peace, settlements are an impediment to peace, not conducive to peace, may be an obstacle to peace, are part of very worrying trend, the deeply concerneds etc etc. While they simply carry on business as usual ..manage the conflict, steal more Palestinian lands, continue the longest occupation in modern history.

 

If any outside powers really wanted a 2 state solution, they would have made it happen long ago through outside pressure such as sanctions. 

 

Simply hot air or the usual set script from Macron and Netanyahu knows it. Because under the guise of such platitudes, foreign governments and Israel can appear to be promoting a peaceful solution, while the Israeli facts on the ground  increase and they continue trading. They've all been playing the same game for the last 50 years.

Edited July 18, 2017 by dexterm

[Jingthing]

At it's core Zionism is merely the right of political self determination of the Jewish people realized in the founding and existence of the state of Israel. It's doesn't specify any specific borders or even that the state be where Israel is. Yes, theoretically there could have been a Jewish state in Alaska, Madagascar, or Sudan. But history didn't happen that way. It is in ISRAEL. It doesn't specify supporting any particular wing or policy program of any Israeli government.

 

Opposing Israeli government policies is totally normal just as opposition to the policies of any other government.  Opposing Israeli government policies should not be conflated with anti-Zionism. 

 

Now the reason I think anti-Zionism is usually a code word for anti-semitism is that if you are against political self determination for the Jewish people and single them out for that discrimination, not being against political self determination for all OTHER peoples (such as the Thais here in Thailand) then the anti-Jewish bias is self evident. 

 

It's a polite way for people to be anti-semitic. They say I'm not anti-semitic, I'm anti-Zionist. Who do they think they are fooling? 

 

An interesting recent case of the insidious  cloaking of anti-semitism can be found in what happened at the "Dyke March" in Chicago. Off topic, but google it ... it directly relates to these issues. It's usually coming from the left. The right doesn't bother cloaking their racist hatred. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[ddavidovsky]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

At it's core Zionism is merely the right of political self determination of the Jewish people realized in the founding and existence of the state of Israel. It's doesn't specify any specific borders or even that the state be where Israel is. Yes, theoretically there could have been a Jewish state in Alaska. But history didn't happen that way. It is in ISRAEL. It doesn't specify supporting any particular wing or policy program of any Israeli government.

 

Opposing Israeli government policies is totally normal just as opposition to the policies of any other government. 

 

Now the reason I think anti-Zionism is usually a code word for anti-semitism is that if you are against political self determination for the Jewish people and single them out for that discrimination, not being against political self determination for all OTHER peoples (such as the Thais here in Thailand) then the anti-Jewish bias is self evident. 

 

It's a polite way for people to be anti-semitic. They say I'm not anti-semitic, I'm anti-Zionist. Who do they think they are fooling? 

 

An interesting recent case of the insidious  cloaking of anti-semitism can be found in what happened at the "Dyke March" in Chicago. Off topic, but google it ... it directly relates to these issues. It's usually coming from the left. The right doesn't bother cloaking their racist hatred. 

How do you manage to overlook the fact that Israel has displaced and persecuted millions of people in its pursuit of 'self-determination'? It's not at all an issue of self-determination, but of invasion. And the displacement and persecution is ongoing. And it is causing global instability.

 

Macron is another milquetoast politician who doesn't understand the underlying issues. That is bad news for world peace.

[dexterm]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

At it's core Zionism is merely the right of political self determination of the Jewish people realized in the founding and existence of the state of Israel. It's doesn't specify any specific borders or even that the state be where is Israel. It doesn't specify supporting any particular wing or policy program of any Israeli government.

 

Opposing Israeli government policies is totally normal just as opposition to the policies of any other government. 

 

Now the reason I think anti-Zionism is usually a code word for anti-semitism is that if you are against political self determination for the Jewish people and single them out for that discrimination, not being against political self determination for all OTHER peoples (such as the Thais here in Thailand) then the anti-Jewish bias is self evident. 

 

It's a polite way for people to be anti-semitic. They say I'm not anti-semitic, I'm anti-Zionist. Who do they think they are fooling? 

The problem is that Zionism achieved and still maintains the right to self determination for Jews only at the expense of the Palestinians' right to self determination. 

 

Zionist arrived over 100 years ago with power, international influence, organisation, and money just like all other European colonialists determined to establish a predominantly Jewish State in Palestine where the majority of the resident population were Palestinians ..and Palestinians still are the majority.

 

What I object to in Zionism is its system of discrimintory apartheid laws and immigration policy that excludes Palestinains from their own land.

 

BTW the majority of world Jewry don't seem to feel the need for self determination in a Jewish State,  because they vote with their feet by not living there.

Edited July 18, 2017 by dexterm

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

How do you manage to overlook the fact that Israel has displaced and persecuted millions of people in its pursuit of 'self-determination'? It's not at all an issue of self-determination, but of invasion. And the displacement and persecution is ongoing. And it is causing global instability.

 

Macron is another milquetoast politician who doesn't understand the underlying issues. That is bad news for world peace.

I am not ignoring anything.

I have no problem with criticizing Israeli government policies.

I don't agree with your inflammatory rhetoric above though. For example, it's typical of the extremist Israel demonization agenda to radically exaggerate the importance of the Israel/Palestinian conflict to global stability or instability. It's a factor among many others.

 

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Anti-Zionism is toxic and favors that Israel should not even exist with any borders or any policies. That's not normal. Criticism of Israeli government policies, as towards any government's policies is totally normal. 

 

Various nationalities here. Imagine how you would feel if there was a global hate movement that favored that YOUR nation should not even exist. 

 

To me, it's good news that Macron isn't another European leader caving to the Israel demonizers.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[Morch]

48 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>There is no full convergence between as suggested between your "definition", those of Zionism's founders, the current Israeli governments' and Israeli opposition.

As usual you criticize others' but refuse to define Zionism yourself. 

 

Well maybe you should be telling Macron, Netanyahu and the Israeli opposition who call themselves the Zionist Union that. They seem to know what they mean by Zionism unlike yourself.

 

There is no need to provide an alternative definition in order to point out that the one pushed is incorrect. Introduction to Logic 101. No idea what point you thought you were making with the latter bit - my position is that there can be and that there are different takes on Zionism.

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, dexterm said:

European and US governments have been saying the same for decades. Israel absolutely loves it. It's part of theirs and probably Macron's stalling game.

 

Israel can weather  the words; troubling, unsettling ,unhelpful, may not help peace, settlements are an impediment to peace, not conducive to peace, may be an obstacle to peace, are part of very worrying trend, the deeply concerneds etc etc. While they simply carry on business as usual ..manage the conflict, steal more Palestinian lands, continue the longest occupation in modern history.

 

If any outside powers really wanted a 2 state solution, they would have made it happen long ago through outside pressure such as sanctions. 

 

Simply hot air or the usual set script from Macron and Netanyahu knows it. Because under the guise of such platitudes, foreign governments and Israel can appear to be promoting a peaceful solution, while the Israeli facts on the ground  increase and they continue trading. They've all been playing the same game for the last 50 years.

 

To sum the rant, any political leader, not fully aligning himself with your extreme positions and vehement style is either suspect or outright rejected. May want to re-read your posts leading up to the one above.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There is no need to provide an alternative definition in order to point out that the one pushed is incorrect. Introduction to Logic 101. No idea what point you thought you were making with the latter bit - my position is that there can be and that there are different takes on Zionism.

You're right. There are different takes. But in my view the majority of people expressing support for anti-Zionism think that Israel (or any state with a majority demographic of Jewish people) should have never existed and should no longer exist. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[Morch]

26 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The problem is that Zionism achieved and still maintains the right to self determination for Jews only at the expense of the Palestinians' right to self determination. 

 

Zionist arrived over 100 years ago with power, international influence, organisation, and money just like all other European colonialists determined to establish a predominantly Jewish State in Palestine where the majority of the resident population were Palestinians ..and Palestinians still are the majority.

 

What I object to in Zionism is its system of discrimintory apartheid laws and immigration policy that excludes Palestinains from their own land.

 

BTW the majority of world Jewry don't seem to feel the need for self determination in a Jewish State,  because they vote with their feet by not living there.

 

What you object to is the existence of Israel. Mask it as whatever, that's the bottom line.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You're right. There are different takes. But in my view the majority of people expressing support for anti-Zionism think that Israel (or any state with a majority demographic of Jewish people) should have never existed and should no longer exist. 

I dunno about majority, but with regard to the usual suspects on this forum - yeah, pretty much.

[ddavidovsky]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I am not ignoring anything.

I have no problem with criticizing Israeli government policies.

I don't agree with your inflammatory rhetoric above though. For example, it's typical of the extremist Israel demonization agenda to radically exaggerate the importance of the Israel/Palestinian conflict to global stability or instability. It's a factor among many others.

 

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Anti-Zionism is toxic and favors that Israel should not even exist with any borders or any policies. That's not normal. Criticism of Israeli government policies, as towards any government's policies is totally normal. 

 

Various nationalities here. Imagine how you would feel if there was a global hate movement that favored that YOUR nation should not even exist. 

 

To me, it's good news that Macron isn't another European leader caving to the Israel demonizers.

You're so partisan it's hardly worth arguing with you. You are even reduced to denying that the Palestine conflict is of any importance. You are part of the problem. Palestine is at the root of Islam's damaged pride worldwide.

 

Why exactly is anti-zionism toxic exactly? It's toxic only for the Israelis, the aggressors, and rightly so. The purpose of anti-zionism is to restore peace and stability to the world.

 

My own nation, btw, was developed from out of the dirt over two thousand years by the people who still live there. If my nation was built on modern-day invasion of another country, I would hang my head in shame and join the hate movement against it.

 

Israel needs to wake up. They are the cause of their own vilification. WWII earned the Jews only sympathy, and Hollywood was their PR machine for decades. But they've gone and blown all that goodwill. Everyone hated the Nazis for what they did (displacement, occupation, persecution); now people are hating Israel for what it is doing (displacement, occupation, persecution). What is Gaza but a giant concentration camp?

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

You're so partisan it's hardly worth arguing with you. You are even reduced to denying that the Palestine conflict is of any importance. You are part of the problem. Palestine is at the root of Islam's damaged pride worldwide.

 

...

Sorry, dude, I stopped even reading after that section. No point if people are unwilling to engage honestly.

I NEVER said the Israel/Palestinian conflict was of no importance.

I pushed back against EXAGGERATING it's importance.

 

On your personalized attack, I suppose you're right. Anyone, including little old me and big young Macron, that supports the right of Israel to exist and defend itself is indeed "part of the problem" to people pushing a toxic "anti-Zionist" agenda. 

 

If you choose to reply to me directly in future, up to you, but don't expect any further replies. See my first sentence. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There is no need to provide an alternative definition in order to point out that the one pushed is incorrect. Introduction to Logic 101. No idea what point you thought you were making with the latter bit - my position is that there can be and that there are different takes on Zionism.

>>There is no need to provide an alternative definition in order to point out that the one pushed is incorrect.

Logic 101...you contradict yourself. Like saying I know this is incorrect, but I dont know what is correct. Baloney.

 

>>my position is that there can be and that there are different takes on Zionism.

...so if there are different takes on Zionism, what's wrong with mine? More to the point where's your one of different takes?

 

But I wont labor the point; I know you will just sidestep as usual with weasel words.

 

 

[ddavidovsky]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry, dude, I stopped even reading after that section. No point if people are unwilling to engage honestly.

I NEVER said the Israel/Palestinian conflict was of no importance.

I pushed back against EXAGGERATING it's importance.

 

On your personalized attack, I suppose you're right. Anyone, including little old me and big young Macron, that supports the right of Israel to exist and defend itself is indeed "part of the problem" to people pushing a toxic "anti-Zionist" agenda. 

Your problem is that you see the phrase 'anti-zionism' as indicating that people hate the Jews. Your personal insecurity is of no interest to me. 

 

Nowadays, at least to me, anti-zionism relates not to Israel's right to exist (which is now de facto), but its continued occupation and persecution of Palestinians and its illegitimate creeping lebensraum campaign. We can call it 'anti-expansionism' if you prefer. So what is your position on 'anti-expansionism'?

 

In the interest of world peace I have always acknowledged that Israel is a fait accompli, and that there's no sense in denying its right to exist, and I don't advocate that Palestinians do so - they've lost that battle.

However, due to increasing global instability that this situation has caused (especially since 9/11), it's vital that Israel  reins itself in and gives Palestine independence. It's always for the bigger side to offer the olive branch (to put it in terms they should understand). If they do that the hostility will melt away.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by ddavidovsky

[dexterm]

35 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What you object to is the existence of Israel. Mask it as whatever, that's the bottom line.

I object to the existence of Zionist Israel, where Jews only are allowed automatic citizenship upon landing even if they've never seen the place before and then get preferential job treatment and financed land packages, while Palestinians who were born not 30 minutes away have been herded into refugee camps and are refused permission (war crime!) to return to their homes. Then by a series of discriminatory apartheid laws, the Jewish demographic majority and power is artificially maintained, not even mentioning the brutality and horrors of a 50 year Israeli occupation.

 

That's the Israel whose existence I most certainly object to...you're absolutely spot on there!

 

No objection at all to a secular multicultural truly democratic Israel where all races and religions civil and human rights are respected. Will not happen overnight, but that's the goal activists should be aiming towards, not perpetuating the hideous status quo, as Macron is doing trying to sweep criticism of the present Zionist regime under the carpet.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>There is no need to provide an alternative definition in order to point out that the one pushed is incorrect.

Logic 101...you contradict yourself. Like saying I know this is incorrect, but I dont know what is correct. Baloney.

 

>>my position is that there can be and that there are different takes on Zionism.

...so if there are different takes on Zionism, what's wrong with mine? More to the point where's your one of different takes?

 

But I wont labor the point; I know you will just sidestep as usual with weasel words.

 

 

 

You obviously did not take Logic 101. There is no contradiction. Disproving your "definition" does not require an alternative one being posited, it is enough to point out the flaws in the one you provide.

 

Kindly stop twisting my words. Your "position" is that there are no differences within Zionism. Mine is that there are. The two views are incompatible. Your version does not allow for anything but your own to be accepted, while mine acknowledges that there are those preaching extreme versions of Zionism, and at the same time - that there are others who don't. That's not what you're about.

 

The one sidestepping is you - the OP is not even predominantly about Zionism. The above "discussion" mostly revolve around your usual bile filled positions.