France's Macron shares Israel's concerns about Lebanon's Hezbollah

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I object to the existence of Zionist Israel, where Jews only are allowed automatic citizenship upon landing even if they've never seen the place before and then get preferential job treatment and financed land packages, while Palestinians who were born not 30 minutes away have been herded into refugee camps and are refused permission (war crime!) to return to their homes. Then by a series of discriminatory apartheid laws, the Jewish demographic majority and power is artificially maintained, not even mentioning the brutality and horrors of a 50 year Israeli occupation.

 

That's the Israel whose existence I most certainly object to...you're absolutely spot on there!

 

No objection at all to a secular multicultural truly democratic Israel where all races and religions civil and human rights are respected. Will not happen overnight, but that's the goal activists should be aiming towards, not perpetuating the hideous status quo, as Macron is doing trying to sweep criticism of the present Zionist regime under the carpet.

 

 

What you object to is the existence of Israel. That you mask it with the Zionist thing is immaterial. What you "envisage" is an outcome which realistically implies the destruction of Israel. That you go on about an unattainable imaginary construct of a country makes no difference. Your bottom line is crystal clear to anyone following your posts.

[dexterm]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What you object to is the existence of Israel. That you mask it with the Zionist thing is immaterial. What you "envisage" is an outcome which realistically implies the destruction of Israel. That you go on about an unattainable imaginary construct of a country makes no difference. Your bottom line is crystal clear to anyone following your posts.

The problem is that you and JT have invented your own Catch 22. There can't be a place called Israel unless it is predominantly Jewish demographically and more importantly under Jewish control. Ergo, anyone who suggests anything else must be automatically against the existence of the state of Israel or as Macron would claim anti semitic.

 

Maybe you should be asking yourself, if Zionists have to go to so much trouble enacting apartheid laws to maintain their artificial majority and suppressing the local Palestinian majority, maybe the state of Israel should not be in existence in its present racist form.

 

Of course Jews, Muslims and Christians can live together equally. Politicians have just got to try harder on mechanisms to gradually achieve that after so many years of bitterness.. That should be their aim, not let's not rock the boat by pointing out the hideous and ironic treatment of  Palestinians by Zionists and risk being called anti semitic.

Edited July 18, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The problem is that you and JT have invented your own Catch 22. There can't be a place called Israel unless it is predominantly Jewish demographically and more importantly under Jewish control. Ergo, anyone who suggests anything else must be automatically against the existence of the state of Israel or as Macron would claim anti semitic.

 

Maybe you should be asking yourself, if Zionists have to go to so much trouble enacting apartheid laws to maintain their artificial majority and suppressing the local Palestinian majority, maybe the state of Israel should not be in existence in its present racist form.

 

Of course Jews, Muslims and Christians can live together equally. Politicians have just got to try harder on mechanisms to gradually achieve that after so many years of bitterness.. That should be their aim, not let's not rock the boat by pointing out the hideous and ironic treatment of  Palestinians by Zionists and risk being called anti semitic.

 

Nope, that's your contrived presentation of what's posted, nothing more. All your talk about secularism, multiculturalism, tolerance and the rest is applied only to Israel, only to Israeli Jews. It never takes into account the Palestinian side, other than applying an alternating victimized/idealized view. Nothing which puts the possibility of such an imaginary construct within the harsh reality of the ME.

 

What politicians should or shouldn't strive for is one thing, your agenda is another.

 

 

[Jingthing]

It's really quite powerful and important that the leader of France has come out so strongly speaking the truth about the link between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism.

 

Appreciated somewhat more predictably by the USA senate minority leader Schumer --

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Senator-Schumer-Macron-absolutely-right-in-equating-anti-Zionism-with-antisemitism-500002

 

Quote

 

Speaking on the Senate floor, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York said that Macron was "absolutely right" to deny legitimacy to those who question the founding principles of the Jewish state. Antisemitism is a word that has been used throughout history when Jewish people are judged and measured by one standard and the rest by another," Schumer said.

 

"When everyone else was allowed to farm and Jews could not; when anyone else could live in Moscow and Jews could not; when others could become academics or tradesmen and Jews could not. The word to describe all of these acts is anti-Semitism."

"So it is with anti-Zionism," Schumer continued, "the idea that all other peoples can seek and defend their right to self-determination but Jews cannot; that other nations have a right to exist, but the Jewish state of Israel does not."

 

 

I don't think Merkel has ever come out so strongly on this issue, has she? 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Jingthing

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.   Continue at your own peril.  

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's really quite powerful and important that the leader of France has come out so strongly speaking the truth about the link between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism.

 

Appreciated somewhat more predictably by the USA senate minority leader Schumer --

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Senator-Schumer-Macron-absolutely-right-in-equating-anti-Zionism-with-antisemitism-500002

 

 

I don't think Merkel has ever come out so strongly on this issue, has she? 

No she hasn't  mainly because there is no such link.

Which speaks volumes about why Macron is doing so now.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's really quite powerful and important that the leader of France has come out so strongly speaking the truth about the link between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism.

 

Appreciated somewhat more predictably by the USA senate minority leader Schumer --

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Senator-Schumer-Macron-absolutely-right-in-equating-anti-Zionism-with-antisemitism-500002

 

 

I don't think Merkel has ever come out so strongly on this issue, has she? 

 

She actually did:

 

http://www.jpost.com/International/Merkel-Israel-part-of-Germanys-security-rejects-anti-Zionism-326174

 

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/German-Chancellor-Merkels-party-labels-BDS-antisemitic-474715

 

20 minutes ago, dexterm said:

No she hasn't  mainly because there is no such link.

Which speaks volumes about why Macron is doing so now.

 

Merkel didn't get your memo.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Thanks for that. I agree with Merkel about BDS as well. Related topics for sure. 

[Morch]

Regardless of some posters perceptions, the issue of anti-Zionism was not the crux of meeting between the two leaders. I think that at least to some degree, this was related to events and statements concerning the recent election campaign in France.

 

Other than the Hezbollah issue, Macron wasn't really all that sympathetic to Netanyahu's positions with regard to the stalled peace process and more specifically when it came to construction in the West Bank. That he did not pressure Netanyahu on this does not convey agreement. For one thing, France does not have all that much influence on Israeli policy making, and Macron's focus being on other issues, domestic and European in nature.