rockingrobin Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, chrissables said: I wrote morally maybe, not non. Legally non The commitments that have been made last a year after the leave date, as i understand it. I am sure once the EU quantifies its demands the UK will agree to some payment, but some of the amounts being stated in the press are ridiculous. If the treaties are the agreements in law , how can they be non legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissables Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: what are law more than my opinion. Look here: you and I we are living in Thailand. We will definitely not change anything concerning those negotiations between UK and EU. And all what is written in this thread comes out of the blue. There are hopes from both sides that there will be a good end for both parties. In this thread I could feel soooo many animosities which I was hoping they would be buried for all times. We are a community of democratic and free countries. And what I also feel is a rising nationalism. Borders and separation is not a solution. There is a fact that there will come more refugees or migrants from many countries. They are on the way already. And it is our duty to prevent them coming to us, means to give them a vision of future in their countries. It's our duty to develop them in the way they want it. Not according our standards. And not again exploiting. In this we should stand together and whatever will happen with your isolation or not it's your obligation to support every state leaders to fight poverty in these countries. Not fighting each other but supporting and help actively. so, and now please enjoy your beer. I don't live in Europe and i am not obliged to support people i can't vote for, talking of the EU, seemed to have done a terrible job in may ways. Pay attention, beer O'clock is later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissables Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, rockingrobin said: If the treaties are the agreements in law , how can they be non legal I was referring to there being no legal way to force payment, as it was not in the treaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, sawadee1947 said: most Brits here are outdated and too old to see the future it seems to me you're one of those? The referendum represented what Britain wants. That's not correct. Only those you went to the polls decided. The majority of the youth did not. So the outdated decided about the future for the coming generation. And this next generation doesn't want to have borders nor visa restrictions. Actually what about of those who bought properties in Spain? Would they have to sell and go back home? I think those outdated have no right to destroy the youth's future. (e.g. to study where they want, to live where they want, to work where they want) I think we should stop this silly conversation. Wait some months then you will see what you'll get. The good thing is: the next generation can enter EU again when this old generation has passed away in a few years. As a Limerick man I hope we'll not have again borders between our 2 parts of my beloved Ireland and the day of reunification will come soon with the next generation! It looks like your beloved Ireland is the real agenda. Fair enough. But don't complain about the referendum vote. That these apathetic youngsters couldn't be arsed to get out and scribble an X on a piece of paper just shows they probably don't deserve their voting privilege anyway. Their outdated, past their sell-by-date parents have had far more experience of this EU and their vote is far more telling and meaningful. If you want to stop this silly conversation why don't you start the ball rolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, chrissables said: civil servants could not write a contract that accounts for future obligations I don't want to start a new conversation with you, but YOU have been (and still are) a member of this EU with civil servants and UK has sent civil servants there. If there are problems now then you have been the problem too. You can't act as not being responsible for any confusion or mismanagement...... No sweat, wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, nauseus said: It looks like your beloved Ireland is the real agenda. Fair enough. But don't complain about the referendum vote. That these apathetic youngsters couldn't be arsed to get out and scribble an X on a piece of paper just shows they probably don't deserve their voting privilege anyway. Their outdated, past their sell-by-date parents have had far more experience of this EU and their vote is far more telling and meaningful. If you want to stop this silly conversation why don't you start the ball rolling? Hahahaha, why answer me? btw that the youth didn't go to the polls depends on your education you gave them. Did you make a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: Hahahaha, why answer me? btw that the youth didn't go to the polls depends on your education you gave them. Did you make a mistake? Looking at the scrambled egg above it seems that any mistakes are yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, nauseus said: Looking at the scrambled egg above it seems that any mistakes are yours. ...says someone who lives in a glass house...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 25 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: ...says someone who lives in a glass house...... Just brilliant, like all of your posts. Keep laughing at yourself, everyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Yeah, laugh with me instead of being upset and grumpy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 hours ago, chrissables said: We are not, at present doing a runner. I hope the EU can quantify the financial demands and we reach an amicable agreement. But this crazy pay up before we negotiate stance is not helping. The international reaction to UK not paying a bill it legally does not have to pay? Who would care? If the EU with all it's resources and civil servants could not write a contract that accounts for future obligations, they obviously aren't qualified for the job. "If the EU with all it's resources and civil servants could not write a contract that accounts for future obligations, they obviously aren't qualified for the job." Sadly, that's typically the case amongst civil service jobs - and is equally applicable to 'top' UK civil servants/govt. employees . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, oldhippy said: Who should pay the MP pension of that Farage clown? The European taxpayer? Remember him? The guy that complained about only foreign languages spoken when he took a suburban train. As if a member of the EU paliament would ever travel by train - particularly this Trump hugger. Next he was embarrassed in a radio show by a listener who asked him which of the 3 official Belgian languages he speaks, after living - lavishly - in Brussels for so many years. Presumably the same 'rules' will apply as with any other company/government pension. Contributions towards pensions will be made until the UK leaves the EU. After that, he and other EMPs are no longer employed by the EU, and their pensions from this employment will be placed into an 'investment fund' - from which pension payments will eventually be paid, according to the contractual terms of the pension arrangements. The same presumably will apply to all EU employees - the UK continues to pay (the payments include contributions towards EU employee pensions) until it leaves the EU - after which, salaries and further contributions towards employees pensions, are no longer the UK's responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Presumably the same 'rules' will apply as with any other company/government pension. Contributions towards pensions will be made until the UK leaves the EU. After that, he and other EMPs are no longer employed by the EU, and their pensions from this employment will be placed into an 'investment fund' - from which pension payments will eventually be paid, according to the contractual terms of the pension arrangements. The same presumably will apply to all EU employees - the UK continues to pay (the payments include contributions towards EU employee pensions) until it leaves the EU - after which, salaries and further contributions towards employees pensions, are no longer the UK's responsibility. You assume that the future pensions will be paid out of a reserve that has been buit up over the years. That is possible, that is the way it should be, but unfortunately that is unlikely. In most countries, pensions are paid out of current tax intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgota Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 20 hours ago, nauseus said: I wonder where on earth all this came from? No reference of course. Well I found it and it's from fxcm, a forex trading magazine! Nothing like some reliable info to cut and paste, eh?! If you had some pride you might come up with something original. So you want quotes with source and when you have source it is considered as wrong! I suspect in fact that each article which will erode your trust in "UK alone can and will do better " is considered as biased, not good, false... If we come at you with original stuff you simply ask for source, if we come with source you deny them...so just stay in your lalaland and enjoy the ride, it will be fun to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgota Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, nauseus said: Just brilliant, like all of your posts. Keep laughing at yourself, everyone else does. We mostly laugh at your reaction and your dreams, but keep going it is as entertaining as a blind describing a sunset colors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, chrissables said: In that case we have no legal requirement to pay anything, moral, maybe. 3 hours ago, rockingrobin said: I am having difficulty understanding this The UK have made future commitments via the treaties in good faith, but have no moral duty to fulfill them ? Exactly! The UK has few (any?) legal obligations after it leaves - and so both the UK and EU rely on getting the best deal possible in the circumstances, to minimise the damage to both sides. And yet the topic headline is the French finance minister saying 'we want our money back'..... As if the UK hasn't already been a main contributor towards the EU..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, oldhippy said: You assume that the future pensions will be paid out of a reserve that has been buit up over the years. That is possible, that is the way it should be, but unfortunately that is unlikely. In most countries, pensions are paid out of current tax intake. I think you're referring to ordinary state pensions, rather than government employee pensions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, sawadee1947 said: I think we should stop this silly conversation. Wait some months then you will see what you'll get. People would say you might be a bit narrow minded? Take the next beer. Be happy as long you can. We here in Thailand would not change anything in UK. So why make yourself so upset? 3 hours ago, sawadee1947 said: what are law more than my opinion. Look here: you and I we are living in Thailand. We will definitely not change anything concerning those negotiations between UK and EU. And all what is written in this thread comes out of the blue. There are hopes from both sides that there will be a good end for both parties. In this thread I could feel soooo many animosities which I was hoping they would be buried for all times. We are a community of democratic and free countries. And what I also feel is a rising nationalism. Borders and separation is not a solution. There is a fact that there will come more refugees or migrants from many countries. They are on the way already. And it is our duty to prevent them coming to us, means to give them a vision of future in their countries. It's our duty to develop them in the way they want it. Not according our standards. And not again exploiting. In this we should stand together and whatever will happen with your isolation or not it's your obligation to support every state leaders to fight poverty in these countries. Not fighting each other but supporting and help actively. so, and now please enjoy your beer. 2 hours ago, sawadee1947 said: Hahahaha, why answer me? btw that the youth didn't go to the polls depends on your education you gave them. Did you make a mistake? 1 hour ago, nauseus said: Just brilliant, like all of your posts. Keep laughing at yourself, everyone else does. 14 minutes ago, Golgota said: We mostly laugh at your reaction and your dreams, but keep going it is as entertaining as a blind describing a sunset colors To be fair, sawadee does seem more than a little inebriated in his last few posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: To be fair, sawadee does seem more than a little inebriated in his last few posts! what drugs you were taking today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgota Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: what drugs you were taking today? Brexitin 500mg 3 times a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: To be fair, sawadee does seem more than a little inebriated in his last few posts! Just now, sawadee1947 said: what drugs you were taking today? I rest my case..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 48 minutes ago, Golgota said: So you want quotes with source and when you have source it is considered as wrong! I suspect in fact that each article which will erode your trust in "UK alone can and will do better " is considered as biased, not good, false... If we come at you with original stuff you simply ask for source, if we come with source you deny them...so just stay in your lalaland and enjoy the ride, it will be fun to watch I like HP sauce. The original of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 35 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: I think you're referring to ordinary state pensions, rather than government employee pensions? I would be surprised if there was a difference between the two. (and I would be happy to be proven wrong about this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 49 minutes ago, Golgota said: We mostly laugh at your reaction and your dreams, but keep going it is as entertaining as a blind describing a sunset colors At least I'm not snow blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, nauseus said: I like HP sauce. The original of course. I like Parma ham. The original of course. From Parma, as the EU nanny state ordered. Not from Cardiff, Belfast or Liverpool, as the UK free marketeers want. Edited July 25, 2017 by oldhippy edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 26 minutes ago, Golgota said: Brexitin 500mg 3 times a day ...you got me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 26 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: I rest my case..... ....doing a good deed every day..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said: Presumably the same 'rules' will apply as with any other company/government pension. Contributions towards pensions will be made until the UK leaves the EU. After that, he and other EMPs are no longer employed by the EU, and their pensions from this employment will be placed into an 'investment fund' - from which pension payments will eventually be paid, according to the contractual terms of the pension arrangements. The same presumably will apply to all EU employees - the UK continues to pay (the payments include contributions towards EU employee pensions) until it leaves the EU - after which, salaries and further contributions towards employees pensions, are no longer the UK's responsibility. 57 minutes ago, oldhippy said: You assume that the future pensions will be paid out of a reserve that has been buit up over the years. That is possible, that is the way it should be, but unfortunately that is unlikely. In most countries, pensions are paid out of current tax intake. 41 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: I think you're referring to ordinary state pensions, rather than government employee pensions? 4 minutes ago, oldhippy said: I would be surprised if there was a difference between the two. (and I would be happy to be proven wrong about this) Ordinary state pension future entitlements can be changed at any time - including the age at which the state pension will be payable. Contractual pension arrangements between the govt. and employees have (as far as I know) been honoured - as have most company pension schemes. Far easier to just get rid of/or reduce the earlier schemes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissables Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 hours ago, sawadee1947 said: I don't want to start a new conversation with you, but YOU have been (and still are) a member of this EU with civil servants and UK has sent civil servants there. If there are problems now then you have been the problem too. You can't act as not being responsible for any confusion or mismanagement...... No sweat, wait and see. I for sure have no responsibility for any issues in the UK or EU. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, chrissables said: I for sure have no responsibility for any issues in the UK or EU. :) Do you mean: enjoy the advantages while they last, refuse the obligations when they come? A very modern (and popular) way of thinking! And it explains why western civilization is going downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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