Tourists in Samui and Phangan warned - box jellyfish that can kill in minutes have arrived

[cumgranosalus]

On 7/20/2017 at 11:43 AM, Topdoc said:

According to foremost jellyfish expert, Lisa-ann Gershwin, jellyfish are taking over the oceans and the growing jellyfish population is highly indicative of the tragic state of the world’s ocean water...

Link: LISA-ANN GERSHWIN

The OP just underlines the continuing lack of cohesion or coherance in the Thai authorities approach to this menace - contradictory, incomplete and even downright WRONG advice is repeatedly put out, presumably by local nabobs trying to cover there arse in the event of a tragedy.

 

 That the number of box jellies is on the rise, especially around Thailand, is far from proven - I believe that Gershwin supports this view.

 

The OP makes some alarming assertions that also are not established yet.

 

"Now a hospital on the neighboring island of Koh Phangan has issued a warning to tourists to stay out of the sea at night.

 The box jellyfish known in Thai as "Maeng kaphun lai sai ( jellyfish with many lines) is a regular visitor to the gulf in July and August."

 

Firstly I don't believe the animals are nocturnal, but it seems they are attracted to light............or are the authorities under the misapprehension that the jellies can be easily seen in daylight!?!?!

 

Also, as far as I'm aware there has been no "season" for box jellies established as yet. So to give the impression they are only around for a couple of months is misleading and potentially dangerous for a species that can appear throughout the year.

 

As for "blooms" other box jelly populations have been shown to rise and fall significantly, but the times and reasons are not yet understood.

 

The article also makes a cursory mention of vinegar - which currently is regarded as the best first aid and possibly a life safer, yet they don’t say what you are meant to do with it!!!

 

It should be poured over any attached tentacles for up to 30 seconds, which is NOT to relive pain but to neutralize the stinging mechanisms and prevent further envenomation.

 

[cumgranosalus]

Ms Gershwin has an app!

 

the Jellyfish app is useful in many ways - for identifying jelly fish, finding and mapping the latest sightings and sharing information on a worldwide basis.

 

The Jellyfish App.

 

it is available for Android and Apple in free and pay-for versions

Edited August 13, 2017 by cumgranosalus

[PoorSucker]

16 hours ago, cumgranosalus said:

 

Firstly I don't believe the animals are nocturnal, but it seems they are attracted to light............or are the authorities under the misapprehension that the jellies can be easily seen in daylight!?!?!

 

Also, as far as I'm aware there has been no "season" for box jellies established as yet. So to give the impression they are only around for a couple of months is misleading and potentially dangerous for a species that can appear throughout the year.

 

The night time warning is because there are no other people on the beach to help you. 

Rainy season has strong waves that will push them towards the beach. 

[cumgranosalus]

 

4 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

The night time warning is because there are no other people on the beach to help you. 

Rainy season has strong waves that will push them towards the beach. 

 

So any form of swimming at night is inadvisable?  The inference I drew from that comment was they consider the likelihood of attack greater at night.IMO they are just thinking of snippets of advice without actually knowing anything about the topic.

 

As for your theory of "the waves" - Box Jellies in most countries spawn in estuaries not out at sea and swim out along the coast.....unlike most jellies, box jellies can actually swim and quite quickly too and they have a king of eyes - they are much less subject to waves and tide.So if anything they are more likely to swim away from the shore in rough weather.

BTW - in waves the water moves up and down not forward or backward until the energy is released on the shore.

Edited August 14, 2017 by cumgranosalus

[PoorSucker]

6 hours ago, cumgranosalus said:

 

 

So any form of swimming at night is inadvisable?  

Yes, stupid people swim alone. 

You obviously never been on Samui rainy season if you think a jelly fish can swim when they cancel the ferry. 

[cumgranosalus]

1 hour ago, PoorSucker said:

Yes, stupid people swim alone. 

You obviously never been on Samui rainy season if you think a jelly fish can swim when they cancel the ferry. 

You don't seem to appreciate how well box jellies swim or the nature of how waves work.

What do you think happens to box jellies when the weather gets bad? They don't suddenly cease to exist.

Box jellies don't like rough seas or deep water...So in times of inclement weather they seek sheltered calmer water...this may be just the other side of a headland or a lagoon or even the outlet they grew from.

The fact is they are still there and in all probability close to land.

As for the season....Box jellies elsewhere tend to be more numerous during wet seasons...they come out of their polyp phase as tiny jellies and swim along the coast. However the nearer the equator you get, the less defined the season becomes. In northern Oz they are present all year round and one has every reason to suspect that to be the case in the seas around Thailand.

I think you are making baseless assumptions that are far from obvious  as I'm well familiar with Samui in all seasons and have sailed enough in the Gulf to be aware of the various sea conditions that can present themselves.

I also sailed IOR up the coast of Queensland over 4 years and became very familiar with the threat of box jellies.

Incidentally, the box jellies in Oz are taken very seriously yet the rate of incidents there is lower than in Thailand, which suggests even more that the Thai authorities are yet to take this problem seriously enough.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by cumgranosalus

[khunPer]

If it can help the discussion of Box Jellyfish behavior, then Wikipedia says...

Quote

The box jellyfish actively hunts its prey (small fish), rather than drifting as do true jellyfish. They are capable of achieving speeds of up to 1.5 to 2 metres per second or about 4 knots (7.4 km/h; 4.6 mph).

 

And National Geographic says about Box jellyfish...

Quote

Box jellies are highly advanced among jellyfish. They have developed the ability to move rather than just drift, jetting at up to four knots through the water. They also have eyes grouped in clusters of six on the four sides of their bell. Each cluster includes a pair of eyes with a sophisticated lens, retina, iris and cornea, although without a central nervous system, scientists aren’t sure how they process what they see.

 

And TravelNQ says among others in "15 Fascinating Facts I Learned About Australian Box Jellyfish"...

Quote

8.    Jellyfish are fast swimmers
Studies show that big box jellyfish can swim faster than any Olympic swimmer.

9.    Jellyfish sleep at night
Scientists have only recently learned that jellyfish settle on the bottom of the ocean floor at night to sleep and then feed during the day.

11.    Jellyfish live for about three months
In the open ocean, jellyfish only live for a period of about three months but they can sometimes live for up to seven to eight months in a science lab tank.

–however, I have no idea of how different our Golf of Thailand's Box jellyfish are compared to the Australian ones; i.e. if they for example also sleep at night...

[khunPer]

This study claims that jellyfish "can sense the ocean current and actively swim against it"; however it don't mention Box Jellyfish directly – probably not the best kind of jellyfish to play with, or just not available in the test area – but in the notes it has a single reference to another scientific report, which says that "Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation".

 

 

Here's an article and video from BBC Jellyfish 'can sense ocean currents'

 

And the original scientific study Current-Oriented Swimming by Jellyfish and Its Role in Bloom Maintenance

 

And the reference to the report about Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation

[Samui Bodoh]

KhunPer...  er... ahem... Wow! Appreciate the research!

 

Your next mission(s), should you choose to accept them, are:

 

• Does the Loch Ness monster really exist?
• What really happened to Amilia Earhart?
• Who really killed JFK and why?

 

Sorry... 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Samui Bodoh

[cumgranosalus]

7 hours ago, khunPer said:

If it can help the discussion of Box Jellyfish behavior, then Wikipedia says...

 

And National Geographic says about Box jellyfish...

 

And TravelNQ says among others in "15 Fascinating Facts I Learned About Australian Box Jellyfish"...

–however, I have no idea of how different our Golf of Thailand's Box jellyfish are compared to the Australian ones; i.e. if they for example also sleep at night...

You make some interesting points however, be careful how you cut and paste; the last few say "jellyfish" only -

 

HOWEVER! - when talking about Box Jellies, you can't do what some posters have done and that is lump together the "BOX" jellies with other jellyfish - taxonomically there AREN"T jellyfish, they are a "superior" animal "Cubozo" of the same general group of cnidarian invertebrates. There are several species of "cubozo" and more are being identified all the time as research continues. 

they have several features that make them different to jellyfish and other jellyfish-type species....they swim fast, and they have "eyes for a start.

[cumgranosalus]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

KhunPer...  er... ahem... Wow! Appreciate the research!

 

Your next mission(s), should you choose to accept them, are:

 

• Does the Loch Ness monster really exist?
• What really happened to Amilia Earhart?
• Who really killed JFK and why?

 

Sorry... 

 

..and the award for the most facile comment on the thread goes to....

[cumgranosalus]

7 hours ago, khunPer said:

This study claims that jellyfish "can sense the ocean current and actively swim against it"; however it don't mention Box Jellyfish directly – probably not the best kind of jellyfish to play with, or just not available in the test area – but in the notes it has a single reference to another scientific report, which says that "Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation".

 

 

Here's an article and video from BBC Jellyfish 'can sense ocean currents'

 

And the original scientific study Current-Oriented Swimming by Jellyfish and Its Role in Bloom Maintenance

 

And the reference to the report about Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation

As above, you are confusing Jellyfish with Box Jellies - a different animal.

[khunPer]

9 hours ago, cumgranosalus said:

You make some interesting points however, be careful how you cut and paste; the last few say "jellyfish" only -

All my links clearly says "Box Jellyfish" in their headlines – believe this thread and discussion is about "Box Jellyfish"...

[khunPer]

9 hours ago, cumgranosalus said:

As above, you are confusing Jellyfish with Box Jellies - a different animal.

Please slowly read again exactly what I'm saying – »...however it don't mention Box Jellyfish directly...« and »...but in the notes it has a single reference to another scientific report, which says that "Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation".«

 

You are the one that talks about that Box Jellyfish can swim, and I looked for proof to either back your unstated claim or the opposite – and also learn something myself – compared to swimming or only drifting in currents; and also about attacking at night. It is mainly to get some documented facts instead of thoughts – seem however like a lot more studies are needed – for Samui visitors, understandable afraid of a close encounter these dangerous spices. I don't draw any conclusions, but leave that to true experts, like yourself...

[cumgranosalus]

16 hours ago, khunPer said:

Please slowly read again exactly what I'm saying – »...however it don't mention Box Jellyfish directly...« and »...but in the notes it has a single reference to another scientific report, which says that "Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation".«

 

You are the one that talks about that Box Jellyfish can swim, and I looked for proof to either back your unstated claim or the opposite – and also learn something myself – compared to swimming or only drifting in currents; and also about attacking at night. It is mainly to get some documented facts instead of thoughts – seem however like a lot more studies are needed – for Samui visitors, understandable afraid of a close encounter these dangerous spices. I don't draw any conclusions, but leave that to true experts, like yourself...

As I said you shouldn't lump jellyfish and Box Jellies together - on a taxonomic level it's actually worse than comparing a hamster to a buffalo.

just because a species of Jelly fish does something it doesn't follow that it applies to a Box Jelly.

virtually all the web addresses you have given refer to jellyfish not box jellies.

 

it is a serious problem that people assume that the Box Jelly is "just another jellyfish" which leads them to make all sorts of incorrect assumptions about it's natural history.

Edited August 16, 2017 by cumgranosalus

[khunPer]

59 minutes ago, cumgranosalus said:

As I said you shouldn't lump jellyfish and Box Jellies together - on a taxonomic level it's actually worse than comparing a hamster to a buffalo.

just because a species of Jelly fish does something it doesn't follow that it applies to a Box Jelly.

virtually all the web addresses you have given refer to jellyfish not box jellies.

 

it is a serious problem that people assume that the Box Jelly is "just another jellyfish" which leads them to make all sorts of incorrect assumptions about it's natural history.

I presume that you didn't read slowly – I'm not assuming, nor comparing anything – as all references, except the separate post with the European study of swimming jellyfish (only) in currents (box jellies are not easily available in that area I think , see my previous note) – are about Box Jellyfish only, if you please read the links:
Wikipedia, "Box jellyfish"

National Geographic, "Box Jellyfish"

Travel NQ, "15 Fascinating Facts I Learned About Australian Box Jellyfish"

–looked at through my glasses, it clearly says "Box" in front of "Jellyfish" in all titles...

 

The European study is interesting about swimming jellyfish and currents, as it's stated in the other Box Jellyfish links that Box Jellyfish actually swim; and also stated by yourself in previous posts, that Box Jellyfish can swim in current.

 

I'm actually to a degree backing your own statement with sources, however I cannot judge the ability of the Box Jellyfish here in Golf of Thailand swimming in monsoon current and waves, as I'm not an expert; that's why I don't draw any conclusions or post any remarks about it. But if you read the study about jellyfish's ability of swimming in current, and get some local data about current, you may be able to draw some level of conclusion; re. your discussion with moderator PoorSucker about weaves and currents during Samui rainy season. I thought it might be quite interesting to find out, as numerous people seem to be scared about the Box Jelleyfish.

 

Based on common sense – because I know way to little about Box Jellyfish, and don't wish to spend time searching for more scientific studies and read them, as neither jellyfish, nor Box Jellyfish has any deep interest for me – I would initially agree with moderator PoorSucker about the rainy season here; which is also based on my own experience from living beach-front on Samui for a decade, with the monsoon storm and current some years hitting quite hard during the rainy season...

[cumgranosalus]

20 hours ago, khunPer said:

I presume that you didn't read slowly – I'm not assuming, nor comparing anything – as all references, except the separate post with the European study of swimming jellyfish (only) in currents (box jellies are not easily available in that area I think , see my previous note) – are about Box Jellyfish only, if you please read the links:
Wikipedia, "Box jellyfish"

National Geographic, "Box Jellyfish"

Travel NQ, "15 Fascinating Facts I Learned About Australian Box Jellyfish"

–looked at through my glasses, it clearly says "Box" in front of "Jellyfish" in all titles...

 

The European study is interesting about swimming jellyfish and currents, as it's stated in the other Box Jellyfish links that Box Jellyfish actually swim; and also stated by yourself in previous posts, that Box Jellyfish can swim in current.

 

I'm actually to a degree backing your own statement with sources, however I cannot judge the ability of the Box Jellyfish here in Golf of Thailand swimming in monsoon current and waves, as I'm not an expert; that's why I don't draw any conclusions or post any remarks about it. But if you read the study about jellyfish's ability of swimming in current, and get some local data about current, you may be able to draw some level of conclusion; re. your discussion with moderator PoorSucker about weaves and currents during Samui rainy season. I thought it might be quite interesting to find out, as numerous people seem to be scared about the Box Jelleyfish.

 

Based on common sense – because I know way to little about Box Jellyfish, and don't wish to spend time searching for more scientific studies and read them, as neither jellyfish, nor Box Jellyfish has any deep interest for me – I would initially agree with moderator PoorSucker about the rainy season here; which is also based on my own experience from living beach-front on Samui for a decade, with the monsoon storm and current some years hitting quite hard during the rainy season...

Silly! - are you trying to move goalposts? only one of these  is about box jellies as I have pointed out in my forst 2 replies to your misleading posts. Why bundle stuff about jellyfish with Box jellies - you clearly were unaware of the difference so posted a lot of stuff that is a best tangential - noew you realsie you were making a mistake you are trying to change the parametres of wht you have already posted by ignoring the faulty elements

"

This study claims that jellyfish "can sense the ocean current and actively swim against it"; however it don't mention Box Jellyfish directly – probably not the best kind of jellyfish to play with, or just not available in the test area – but in the notes it has a single reference to another scientific report, which says that "Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation".

 

 

Here's an article and video from BBC Jellyfish 'can sense ocean currents'

 

And the original scientific study Current-Oriented Swimming by Jellyfish and Its Role in Bloom Maintenance

 

And the reference to the report about Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation"

Edited August 17, 2017 by cumgranosalus

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, cumgranosalus said:

Silly! - are you trying to move goalposts? only one of these  is about box jellies as I have pointed out in my forst 2 replies to your misleading posts. Why bundle stuff about jellyfish with Box jellies - you clearly were unaware of the difference so posted a lot of stuff that is a best tangential - noew you realsie you were making a mistake you are trying to change the parametres of wht you have already posted by ignoring the faulty elements

"

This study claims that jellyfish "can sense the ocean current and actively swim against it"; however it don't mention Box Jellyfish directly – probably not the best kind of jellyfish to play with, or just not available in the test area – but in the notes it has a single reference to another scientific report, which says that "Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation".

 

 

Here's an article and video from BBC Jellyfish 'can sense ocean currents'

 

And the original scientific study Current-Oriented Swimming by Jellyfish and Its Role in Bloom Maintenance

 

And the reference to the report about Box Jellyfish Use Terrestrial Visual Cues for Navigation"

I give up posting to people that cannot read: »...however it don't mention Box Jellyfish directly...«