Notifying change of address

[JohnJay]

I went to do my first 90 day report today. I have been here 11 months but only 3 on a marriage visa. When I did this report, I was told that I need to pay a fine of 1,900 baht because I did not notify them when I moved from Isaan. 

 

I have never heard of this before. No one has ever told me I need to notify a change of address. 

 

They made my wife fill out a sheet that says "FOR THE HOUSEMASTER OF RESIDENTS WHERE ALIEN IS STAYING" even though I showed my receipt for renting a condo. And because that receipt shows I've lived there for 3 weeks without notifying them I need to pay a fine. 

 

If I go to phuket for a week, do I notify them? If I go to Isaan for a month, do I notify them? I asked the big police man this but he wouldn't even look at me and totally ignored me. So I have no idea about the rules as it was never explained anywhere.

[Tanoshi]

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the
following :
1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the
Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law
concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the
law concerned.
2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason
that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official
of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.
3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty
– four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not
located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the
police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.
4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such
alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time
of arrival.
5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the
competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as
possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is
an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.
 

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.
 

Immigration Act BE 2522.pdf

 

You were fined under Section 38.

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be
punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for
each day which passes until the law is complied with.
Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not
exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht
to 10,000 Baht.
 

Think yourself lucky, you could have been fined under both sections.

[brewsterbudgen]

Just to confuse the OP even more, some Immigration Offices do not enforce these rules, including the main office at Chaengwattana!

[JohnJay]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the
following :
1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the
Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law
concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the
law concerned.
2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason
that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official
of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.
3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty
– four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not
located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the
police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.
4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such
alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time
of arrival.
5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the
competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as
possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is
an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.
 

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.
 

Immigration Act BE 2522.pdf

 

You were fined under Section 38.

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be
punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for
each day which passes until the law is complied with.
Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not
exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht
to 10,000 Baht.
 

Think yourself lucky, you could have been fined under both sections.

I didn't pay anything. Just to make clear, if I go somewhere for the weekend I need to notify the nearest police station? 

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, JohnJay said:

I didn't pay anything. Just to make clear, if I go somewhere for the weekend I need to notify the nearest police station? 

 

1 hour ago, JohnJay said:

. When I did this report, I was told that I need to pay a fine of 1,900 baht because I did not notify them when I moved from Isaan. 

 

 And because that receipt shows I've lived there for 3 weeks without notifying them I need to pay a fine. 

 

 

If you permanently change address you must notify using form TM28.

The Housemaster must inform of your arrival using form TM30.

 

Bangkok do not enforce the housemaster filing a TM30.

Some Immigration offices insist a new TM30 is filed when leaving and re-entering Thailand.

I am not aware of any Immigration office that enforces the requirement to report if staying in another Province for more than 24 hours, although hotels and guesthouse will/should file a TM30 stating your arrival and departure.

 

Not every Immigration office enforces sections 37 and 38.

It would help if you stated which office you are now reporting too.

[YetAnother]

you are definitely going to have to adjust your attitude when dealing with thai immigration here; they are RTP, they are police; they do not react well to questions or any aggressive behavior; quite the opposite; they shut down and you will Not get what you want; even worse, they will develop a profile of you and you will encounter trouble with them every time you visit; my personal impression ( 4 imm offices) is that some of the IOs dont like their jobs and some just dont like farang and some just want to exercise a little irrational power; you just have to bear this here;it is not like we have to go there every week.....

[JohnJay]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

 

If you permanently change address you must notify using form TM28.

The Housemaster must inform of your arrival using form TM30.

 

Bangkok do not enforce the housemaster filing a TM30.

Some Immigration offices insist a new TM30 is filed when leaving and re-entering Thailand.

I am not aware of any Immigration office that enforces the requirement to report if staying in another Province for more than 24 hours, although hotels and guesthouse will/should file a TM30 stating your arrival and departure.

 

Not every Immigration office enforces sections 37 and 38.

It would help if you stated which office you are now reporting too.

Sorry, I realize I'm asking many different questions. The man at the immigration office wouldn't even look at me or respond when I was asking him these questions, so I don't understand it.

 

I know for a fact the owner of this building did not notify them I live here, he doesn't even know my name. Can I get in trouble for that as well? They had my wife fill out the house master form. Is she the house master because she's not an alien? I pay for the room after all.

 

Yes, I just moved here when it was time to go for a 90 day report. My wife has lived here since the bill was paid, hence the discrepancy they tried to fine me for. If they ever ask me about this again this is what they will need to understand.

 

I suppose actually educating people about the law doesn't help them since they can't fine people who follow the law. I have greased so many palms to even get this visa. I had the police coming to check where I live, calling up and saying "This is a very far distance from the police station, it will take a lot of gas to get there. A lot of gas in my car.", then he turns up to my house with his wife, daughter, and grandson in the police car.

 

I had the immigration official calling me saying there's a problem with my visa, then I call a lady at the visa office that I had "tipped" and she says, there is no problem at all, I have the visa and can collect it, the boss is just fishing so you can reward him for ironing out a non-existent problem.

 

To be honest with you, if they want to fine me they can go whistle for that money. This visa system seems more like an extortion racket where you pay people to do their jobs that you've already paid for them to do. 

[elviajero]

40 minutes ago, JohnJay said:

I didn't pay anything. Just to make clear, if I go somewhere for the weekend I need to notify the nearest police station? 

By law yes, but that law isn't enforced anywhere that I know of.

 

If you have a 1 year permit to stay you only need to report a change of address, to the new immigration office, if it's a permanent change using the TM.28.

[JohnJay]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

By law yes, but that law isn't enforced anywhere that I know of.

 

If you have a 1 year permit to stay you only need to report a change of address, to the new immigration office, if it's a permanent change using the TM.28.

Thanks for that, and don't worry, I'll let them know any time I leave the building for more than 30 minutes from now on. Maybe I could volunteer to wear a GPS tracker would make this easier all around.

[JohnJay]

Just now, YetAnother said:

you are definitely going to have to adjust your attitude when dealing with thai immigration here; there are RTP, they are police; they do not react well to questions or any aggressive behavior; quite the opposite; they shut down and you will Not get what you want; even worse, they will develop a profile of you and you will encounter trouble with them every time you visit; my personal impression ( 4 imm offices) is that some of the IOs dont like their jobs and some just dont like farang and some just want to exercise a little irrational power; you just have to bear this here;it is not like we have to go there every week.....

I don't have even one iota of respect for someone that can't make eye contact with me and flat out ignores me when I speak to him. Sorry, I don't have an attitude problem, but that is straight up rude. I don't care what uniform he has on, and I know TiT, but these officials are the ones with an attitude problem.

[Tanoshi]

29 minutes ago, JohnJay said:

I know for a fact the owner of this building did not notify them I live here, he doesn't even know my name. Can I get in trouble for that as well? They had my wife fill out the house master form. Is she the house master because she's not an alien? I pay for the room after all.

 

Yes, I just moved here when it was time to go for a 90 day report. My wife has lived here since the bill was paid, hence the discrepancy they tried to fine me for. If they ever ask me about this again this is what they will need to understand.

 

Under the Immigration law the person responsible for filing the TM30 is the 'Housemaster'.

Section 4 : In this Act :
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.
 

Many foreigners have been fined for not filing of a TM30.

[elviajero]

40 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Under the Immigration law the person responsible for filing the TM30 is the 'Housemaster'.

Section 4 : In this Act :
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

No it isn't. Anyone qualifying as the OWNER and/or HOUSE-MASTER and/or POSSESOR of the property are responsible for filing the report. That could be one or more people with equal responsibility.

 

The house-master is ONLY the person named in the Tabien Baan (house registration book) as the head of household, and the definition you quote is to clarify that it doesn't matter what capacity the house-master inhabits the property.

[Tanoshi]

34 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No it isn't. Anyone qualifying as the OWNER and/or HOUSE-MASTER and/or POSSESOR of the property are responsible for filing the report. That could be one or more people with equal responsibility

Which is why I quoted section 4. The owner or possessor can be defined as the 'Housemaster' as can the tenant under the Immigration Act. It could be Thai or Foreigner.

 

38 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The house-master is ONLY the person named in the Tabien Baan (house registration book) as the head of household, and the definition you quote is to clarify that it doesn't matter what capacity the house-master inhabits the property.

The context of 'Housemaster' as defined in a Tabien Baan under the Civil Registration Act does not necessarily relate to the owner or the possessor of the property and certainly cannot be a foreigner.

 

[JackThompson]

Doesn't it all really boil down to whatever the IO in the local office says it means?  You want something from them - extension, 90-day report, etc?  In that case, they tell you when/if they want you to file a TM-30, and may even show you a pamphlet where TM-30 and TM-28 rules are cut and pasted together, to "make it your problem."  I just do it.

[MarcIssan]

Ok, this is somewhat along those lines.  2 parts.

 

1) When I moved to my leased house from the MIL house, I did notify immigration.  But I did not change the address on my drivers license.  Is this going to be a problem?

 

2) Has anyone used the internet filing of the 90 day report?  I followed the link from a post here back in 2015 and I did get to the immigration site but the navigation to the filing area was not clear at all and I gave up.  

 

Marc

 

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, MarcIssan said:

Ok, this is somewhat along those lines.  2 parts.

 

1) When I moved to my leased house from the MIL house, I did notify immigration.  But I did not change the address on my drivers license.  Is this going to be a problem?

 

2) Has anyone used the internet filing of the 90 day report?  I followed the link from a post here back in 2015 and I did get to the immigration site but the navigation to the filing area was not clear at all and I gave up.  

 

Marc

 

Many will say the address on your DL is not important, however would you change it in your home Country, and why?

What if you had a serious accident and were incapacitated....where would the Police go to notify family.

As a foreigner I'd also want to pay any fines for offences caught on any Cameras, rather than it escalate because I couldn't be found.

Up to you, I'm on my 3rd different address on my DL.

 

Unfortunately the 90 day online reporting facility is frequently down for long periods and isn't reliable.

However if you want detailed information on how to follow the procedure, check this link;

 

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, JohnJay said:

I don't have even one iota of respect for someone that can't make eye contact with me and flat out ignores me when I speak to him. Sorry, I don't have an attitude problem, but that is straight up rude. I don't care what uniform he has on, and I know TiT, but these officials are the ones with an attitude problem.

Yes, he probably hates foreigners, so he couldn't bear to look at you because he hates you.

 

Which immigration office was this in ?

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Which is why I quoted section 4. The owner or possessor can be defined as the 'Housemaster' as can the tenant under the Immigration Act. It could be Thai or Foreigner.

 

The context of 'Housemaster' as defined in a Tabien Baan under the Civil Registration Act does not necessarily relate to the owner or the possessor of the property and certainly cannot be a foreigner.

 

 

You're 100% correct here but different offices will interpret things however they feel like doing it.

 

For example I moved house earlier this year and got the woman who lives with me (a Thai) to be the housemaster. It's a rented house and her name is not on the book for it, it doesn't have to be but her name is on the contract.

 

Anyone can act as housemaster - we showed a rental contract in her name and her ID card. I could probably have done it myself but didn't want to push it so I got her to fill it out.

 

This was in Hua Hin, things could be very different elsewhere.

 

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, MarcIssan said:

1) When I moved to my leased house from the MIL house, I did notify immigration.  But I did not change the address on my drivers license.  Is this going to be a problem?

Not for immigration.

9 hours ago, MarcIssan said:

2) Has anyone used the internet filing of the 90 day report?  I followed the link from a post here back in 2015 and I did get to the immigration site but the navigation to the filing area was not clear at all and I gave up.  

The site is up at this time after being down. This is a good link since bypassses the terms and conditions page. https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do?cmd=acceptTerm

You have to be with a window of 15 to 7 days before the report date to do it. You need to internet explorer or an extension to emulate it on another browser.

[Oztruckie]

Jomtien immigration office told me if you go outside of Thailand for more than 14 days or change address u must do the notification of address within 24 hours of arrival back in the country at either immigration office or police station.

 

[YetAnother]

20 hours ago, JohnJay said:

the boss is just fishing so you can reward him for ironing out a non-existent problem.

surprised she said that; pity, there isnt a process which we can use to try an address issues such as this; however i suppose such an effort would just further piss off the local corrupt offficials

[elviajero]

19 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Which is why I quoted section 4. The owner or possessor can be defined as the 'Housemaster' as can the tenant under the Immigration Act. It could be Thai or Foreigner.

 

The context of 'Housemaster' as defined in a Tabien Baan under the Civil Registration Act does not necessarily relate to the owner or the possessor of the property and certainly cannot be a foreigner.

 

You said that the person responsible for reporting is the house-master. That is wrong.

 

You are giving misinformation. The definition of house-master in section 4 simply clarifies that the person named in the Tabien Baan as the head of household  is responsible regardless of their residential status.

 

There are three categories of person that can be responsible for reporting as listed in the immigration act. The OWNER (1), the HOUSE-MASTER (2), the POSSESSOR (3).

1. The OWNER of a property is always responsible. They can be a foreigner.
2. The person named in the Tabien Bann as the head of house hold (HOUSE-MASTER) is responsible if they exist. They can, usually, only be a foreigner with permanent residence.
3. A POSSESOR is neither the owner or house-master, but someone considered responsible for the property/head of the household. Such as a Thai not listed in the Tabian Baan or a foreigner with a formal rental agreement.

The law is written so that at least one person is responsible for reporting the foreigner. The law was written 30+ years ago and, almost certainly, didn't take foreign ownership/tenancies in to account. As the law doesn't specify the nationality of the person making the report a foreign owner/tenant is singularly or jointly responsible, by law, to report themselves.

[dotpoom]

"No one has ever told me I need to notify a change of address". 

I find that really surprising from the OP.

   I would have thought that was basic common knowledge and common sense, especially considering the umpteen time it's been disscussed on here.

[JohnJay]

6 hours ago, dotpoom said:

"No one has ever told me I need to notify a change of address". 

I find that really surprising from the OP.

   I would have thought that was basic common knowledge and common sense, especially considering the umpteen time it's been disscussed on here.

I don't read the immigration section of this forum. I thought that was the whole point of 90 day reports, so they know where you're staying. 

[JohnJay]

11 hours ago, YetAnother said:

surprised she said that; pity, there isnt a process which we can use to try an address issues such as this; however i suppose such an effort would just further piss off the local corrupt offficials

It doesn't surprise me. If I didn't pay a bribe to the police ("for his gas") during their house inspection I would not even have a visa. And if I wanted it done faster, he could do that for 7,000 b. Actually he refused to take the money, he made me pay it to his 18 month grandson while he stood around smoking cigarettes.

 

The fake problem made me very worried at the time and only because I tipped a lady at the visa office did I discover the truth. To put icing on the cake,  they only gave me a marriage visa for 11 months. So yeah, I'll pay a fine for not doing something I was never told to do. They can take it from my cold rigamortised hands.