Moscow warns new U.S. sanctions take ties into uncharted waters

[Naam]

Quote

March 21, 2014: 12:41 PM ET

U.S. sanctions aimed at hitting Russia's financial industry appear to be having an impact.

Three Russian banks reported Friday that Visa (V) and MasterCard (MA) cards were not working for the banks' customers.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/news/companies/russia-credit-cards/index.html

Quote

May 28, 2015 — 20:51

Visa and MasterCard now process all Russian transactions through a state-run system designed to prevent the U.S. credit card companies from suspending service, a Central Bank official said Thursday.

 

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/mastercard-visa-now-process-russian-payments-through-sanction-proof-system-46951

[craigt3365]

Great stuff!

8 minutes ago, Naam said:

Not sure what's reported by the Moscow Times is accurate?  Seems they've been talking about this for years.

http://www.pymnts.com/mastercard/2014/russia-backs-off-deadline-for-visa-mastercard-security-deposits/

 

Maybe they can work with Japan?

https://paymentscompliance.com/premium-content/news_analysis/russia-and-japan-issue-‘sanctions-proof’-payment-cards

[ilostmypassword]

13 hours ago, Naam said:

usually i don't do other peoples homework. but in your case i point to a flaw in your logic. you assume that the U.S. is using as much natural gas as Europe does which is not the case. moreover, the U.S. is a net importer of natural gas, id est there's no such thing like delivering gas to Europe to substitute imports from Russia as one of the "lurned" colleagues suggested.

 

As I said, you need reading glasses. In this case to read what you actually wrote: "Western Europe's demand for natural gas is 18 (eighteen) times of the total U.S. production."

Western Europe's demand for natural gas is not 18 times the total us production. Exports is a different matter. 

 

[Naam]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

As I said, you need reading glasses. In this case to read what you actually wrote: "Western Europe's demand for natural gas is 18 (eighteen) times of the total U.S. production."

Western Europe's demand for natural gas is not 18 times the total us production. Exports is a different matter. 

 

as already mentioned i don't do homework on demand for others. my claim still stands. demand of a specific commodity or energy in a country has nothing to with the country's size or the number of inhabitants.

[ilostmypassword]

26 minutes ago, Naam said:

as already mentioned i don't do homework on demand for others. my claim still stands. demand of a specific commodity or energy in a country has nothing to with the country's size or the number of inhabitants.

The fact is, your claim is obviously wrong. As for not doing homework for others...what this means is that you can make any claim you like with no supporting facts and expect that to stand unless proven otherwise. That's why in debating the other side is responsible for disproving assertions. And in courts of law, prosecutors  can claim someone is guilty with no supporting evidence and the onus is on the defense to prove otherwise.  And in the sciences you can announce your conclusions without any backup and claim it's incumbent on others to prove your conclusions wrong. Life must be easy in whatever alternative universe you hail from where the actual genuine intellectual labor is incumbent upon others and never yourself.

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

And in courts of law, prosecutors  can claim someone is guilty with no supporting evidence and the onus is on the defense to prove otherwise.  

I think you've got the law back to front.

Russia has done nothing wrong and America has not presented facts that prove guilt and what they have presented is paranoid assumptions.

 

Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must collect and present compelling evidence to the trier of fact.

The trier of fact is thus restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony presented in court.

The prosecution must, in most cases prove that the accused is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

If reasonable doubt remains, the accused must be acquitted. 

 

Russia should charge America with slander and have sanctions put on the US.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Kwasaki

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

I think you've got the law back to front.

Russia has done nothing wrong and America has present facts that prove guilt and they have presented is paranoid assumptions.

 

Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must collect and present compelling evidence to the trier of fact.

The trier of fact is thus restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony presented in court.

The prosecution must, in most cases prove that the accused is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

If reasonable doubt remains, the accused must be acquitted. 

 

Russia should charge America with slander and have sanctions put on the US.

First off, whatever you're on about, isn't what I was replying to. Naam contends that he is under no obligation to provide support for his contentions. This is clearly nonsense and a way of avoiding responsibility.

 

As for your comparing US actions towards russia to punishment without trial...? Really? You believe that any unfriendly actions taken towards a foreign government should only be done after a trial? The rules of evidence are there to protect individuals from the massive powers of government. They are not suitable to regulate relations between governments.

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I think you've got the law back to front.

Russia has done nothing wrong and America has not presented facts that prove guilt and what they have presented is paranoid assumptions.

 

Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must collect and present compelling evidence to the trier of fact.

The trier of fact is thus restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony presented in court.

The prosecution must, in most cases prove that the accused is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

If reasonable doubt remains, the accused must be acquitted. 

 

Russia should charge America with slander and have sanctions put on the US.

Russia hacked into computers in the US, with the express intent of having an impact on the election.  Chaos if nothing else.  It's been proven.  And hardly paranoid.  They've even done the same thing in many other countries.  Easy to research this if you have an open mind.

 

Slander?  Seriously?  Even Putin admits Russian's did the hacking!

[craigt3365]

Watch this.  It's amazing.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/watch-explosive-dutch-documentary-says-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russias-mafia-underworld/

[Grubster]

On 7/27/2017 at 4:24 PM, Naam said:

i recommend you do some homework instead of shooting from the hip!

fact:

Western Europe's demand for natural gas is 18 (eighteen) times of the total U.S. production. yawn... 

The US produces about 30 trillion cubic feet per year, the EU uses about 20 trillion cubic feet per year. Your math is very very poor for a Physicist. 18 times? You should really stop yawning. Did someone shoot from the hip?

[Grubster]

This topic is about Russia warning retaliation for US sanctions that may be increased do to their interference with US elections.  Since Russia only supplies 20% of EU natural gas and that 20% can easily be made up by other suppliers, not to mention that they would be eliminating one of there biggest exports.  I think the Russians have a very weak hand here. Sending a bunch of US diplomats home is hardly a bad thing, I'm sure those people will be happy to be home. Maybe North Korea will support Russia.

[Morch]

On 7/26/2017 at 5:14 PM, Kwasaki said:

You can laugh out loud as much as you like,  l would just laugh at someone would believe a politician and his staged rhetoric.

There's always two sides to a story and what Micky mouse Fallon spouts is hypocritical.

 

" Yet despite an inquiry showing that the plane was shot down by a Russian provided missile, Russia denied it and continues to do so."

 

Yes because Russian missile was supplied to someone and the use of that Russian missile by Russia was decommissioned a long time ago, l guess he forgot to say that.

 

 l would just laugh at someone would believe a politician and his staged rhetoric.

 

Unless it's a Russian politician, it seems.

[Morch]

On 7/26/2017 at 8:15 PM, retarius said:

Moronic move by the warmongers in the US congress. The US meddles in the internal affairs and democracy of every country on earth. Really these corrupt congressmen should appoint a congressional delegation look for the their missing IQs, which were not too high to begin with.

 

Russia need to respond in a dramatic fashion or there will be a another phoney war based on no evidence at all with plenty of evidence in US meddling in Ukraine and organising a coup. They should consider seizing all US corporate assets in Russia (McDs Starbucks and any oil or oil service companies). They should also kick the CIA out of the embassy and take the holiday dacha back, stop the sales of rocket engines to Nasa etc.

 

If you feel that the US moves are "moronic", why support Russia to choose the same "moronic" path?

[pegman]

So Trump finally gets to sign a major law sent to him by both houses of congress and it is Russian sanctions. Obama has to be rolling on the floor over this. "This will be soooooo easy. I'm soooooo good at doing these deals." 55555555555555

[pegman]

On July 26, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Grubster said:

So just what will the little snot nose Putin do in response to this? Stop buying something? What?, Stop selling something? What?, He has no marbles in his bag that the west can't live without.  Maybe he will send some americans home,  thats OK.  If you mess with the bull you get the horn Putin.

Release the Pee Tape.

[mikebike]

On 2017-07-27 at 4:16 PM, Naam said:

please tell us the result of these "heavy" sanctions 

One glaring result was the cancellation of the trillion dollar Exxon Mobile/Russia deal. Possibly the impetus for the Russia actions in 2016. And funny isn't it that Rex T is now Secretary of State... hmmmm.

[pegman]

15 minutes ago, mikebike said:

One glaring result was the cancellation of the trillion dollar Exxon Mobile/Russia deal. Possibly the impetus for the Russia actions in 2016. And funny isn't it that Rex T is now Secretary of State... hmmmm.

Seems that Rex is in Texas contemplating his future. Being on stage during Cheeto's   Scouts performance may have pushed him over the edge. 

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, pegman said:

Seems that Rex is in Texas contemplating his future. Being on stage during Cheeto's   Scouts performance may have pushed him over the edge. 

It was an unannounced and unexpected holiday.  Lots of rumors he'll be going the way of Spicer, Prince, Bannon, etc, etc, etc.  Being close to Trump is "almost" as dangerous as being close to Putin! LOL

[Credo]

34 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

It was an unannounced and unexpected holiday.  Lots of rumors he'll be going the way of Spicer, Prince, Bannon, etc, etc, etc.  Being close to Trump is "almost" as dangerous as being close to Putin! LOL

Putin, however, is more predictable.   Trump is like trying to befriend a rabid dog.  

[Kwasaki]

39 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

It was an unannounced and unexpected holiday.  Lots of rumors he'll be going the way of Spicer, Prince, Bannon, etc, etc, etc.  Being close to Trump is "almost" as dangerous as being close to Putin! LOL

From my perspective Trump will soon be the first Dictator of USA. 

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

From my perspective Trump will soon be the first Dictator of USA. 

Luckily, there are too many checks and balances for that to happen.  And some OK politicians who know better.  Heck, even his fellow Republicans are turning on him.  Well...most. LOL

[Naam]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

One glaring result was the cancellation of the trillion dollar Exxon Mobile/Russia deal. Possibly the impetus for the Russia actions in 2016. And funny isn't it that Rex T is now Secretary of State... hmmmm.

a result without any present impact. whether it impacts the future remains to be seen. the sanctions will not last forever and Siberian gas and crude exploration will go ahead one way or the other.

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, Naam said:

a result without any present impact. whether it impacts the future remains to be seen. the sanctions will not last forever and Siberian gas and crude exploration will go ahead one way or the other.

I'd say having a 500 billion dollar deal cancelled has a HUGE impact on this. At the least, Putin will be out a LOT of money! LOL

[ilostmypassword]

29 minutes ago, Naam said:

a result without any present impact. whether it impacts the future remains to be seen. the sanctions will not last forever and Siberian gas and crude exploration will go ahead one way or the other.

You mean the economic activity generated by such a project would have no impact on the Russian economy? What economy would it have an impact on? Does Exxon have a magic want which it can use to wave projects into being without paying for construction?  And the products generated would be given away for free to other nations?

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean the economic activity generated by such a project would have no impact on the Russian economy? What economy would it have an impact on? Does Exxon have a magic want which it can use to wave projects into being without paying for construction?  And the products generated would be given away for free to other nations?

Putin has stated the one area the sanctions hurt is oil and gas.  Hard to get the technology they need.

[Naam]

45 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean the economic activity generated by such a project would have no impact on the Russian economy? What economy would it have an impact on? Does Exxon have a magic want which it can use to wave projects into being without paying for construction?  And the products generated would be given away for free to other nations?

your lack of reading ability and/or comprehension is annoying. read again what i wrote:

Quote

Naam said:

a result without any present impact.

 

[Naam]

42 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Putin has stated the one area the sanctions hurt is oil and gas.  Hard to get the technology they need.

true! Russians have no technology except growing potatoes and distilling vodka.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

I'd say having a 500 billion dollar deal cancelled has a HUGE impact on this. At the least, Putin will be out a LOT of money! LOL

Exxon cleaned out Putin's bank accounts? where's my hat?

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, Naam said:

true! Russians have no technology except growing potatoes and distilling vodka.

And they've got some dang good Vodka!

 

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

Exxon cleaned out Putin's bank accounts? where's my hat?

LOL

 

I'd guess Putin's take on that would have been at least 5%.  That's a lot of money!  I seem to have read they made a lot with dubious stock trades with that energy company.

[zaphod reborn]

On 7/27/2017 at 9:22 AM, zaphod reborn said:

Trump is done.  The GOP is bailing on him as he seems to have gone off the script, even for him.  The ban on military service for trans-genders was the best distraction he could come up with for the news that will come out tomorrow.  Stay tuned.

Ban on transgenders in military and Scaramucci's obscene rant were distraction from Bill Browder's Senate Judiciary Committee testimony on Russian infiltration.