Racism and Bigotry Among Thailand Expats

[Goanna]

There must be some small minded tiny thought process, from a person living in a sheltered little left wing world, that no one else should be interested in what goes on in the rest of the world.

 

Wakey wakey. The world is bigger than your quarter rai. Or are there some examples of what you allude to? None have shown up yet. 

 

Back into your shell, and let the rest of us take care of what you are afraid to face. 

[Ace of Pop]

31 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

That didn't take long.

 

Bigotry personified.

 

bigotry: noun bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself

 

I'm sure there will be more to come once the usual suspects on these forums tire of the thread they are on at the moment:

LGBT in the military.

 

Q.E.D.

[DogNo1]

Well, I think that those who line up for their own kick or punch at the latest miscreant or feature of Thai society that is upsetting to them have a defensive mindset and probably become consumed with thinking about problems.  I do myself sometimes.  Actually, the very popular Fox News focuses on emotional criticism of everything that they don't like.  Constant criticism is a defensive strategy similar to OCD.  It doesn't make one feel very happy though.  Interestingly, the British National Health Service has recently initiated counseling for an apparently huge number of people who are bothered with constant negative thinking.  For those who are interested, an article about this appeared in the Health section of yesterday's New York Times.  Many people are being helped by cognitive-behavioral therapy.

[cyberfarang]

2 hours ago, jesimps said:

I knew as soon as I saw the title of this post that it was going to be from a left-winger. Racist, bigot, fascist are words that naturally roll off their tongue. Now add to that, leaver or Brexiteer. These descriptions, the left apply to anyone who's political beliefs are in opposition to theirs. Even when they're in the minority, ie the US election and Brexit referendum result as cases in point, they still think the majority are extremists for not voting the same way as them. A bit like the soldier who says "Look mum, I'm the only one in step".

 

I genuinely believe that the left are the extemists, in fact I think a lot of their beliefs are evil. Without getting into a debate about it, I personally think that the killing of unborn babies is abominable. I think that letting immigration get out of control is letting the people of a country down. I believe that murderers should be put down. I abhor violent leftist protestors. I think that Brexit is a good thing for the UK, despite living in Thailand and struggling because of the low pound. I believe that everyone has the right to like or dislike who they choose and for whatever reason. Take you, I suspect you dislike right wingers and in my opinion, you have the right to do so. 

 

I don't like starting political threads on here, but when I see a post like yours I feel that it needs a response from someone who doesn't agree with what you say. I can't understand how you'd want to start a thread about it though. You're that soldier who I referred to in my first para.

 

By the way, I've been with my Thai wife for ten years and I'm incredibly happy, but I reserve the right to criticise her and other Thais whenever I choose. It doesn't make me a Thai basher. Same goes for what I think of other people and races. Goodness knows, I moan about the UK often enough. You'll probably find that the people you're generalising about, probably moan about their own country as much as any other. Of course, you won't admit that because it doesn't fit your political agenda.

 

 

 

You`re accusing me of being a left winger and another poster has accused me of being a right winger. Sorry, but I`m neither, I`m not into politics. Also you are another one who is trying to divert this thread into a political debate. You don`t agree with abortions, you think the left are extremists, you don`t think immigration is a good thing,  and then you throw Brexit into the mix. Personally I don`t give a toss about your political persuasions. You`re been married for 10 years to a Thai. I`m very happy for you, should you be given a medal for marrying a Thai? I`m also not going to fall into the trap of categorising certain people by race and religion that some are trying to coax me into, I`m taking about quite a few expats I have met that have accentuated some very obnoxious racist views that has sickened me and whether or not people are entitled to like or dislike whom they choose it doesn`t mean I have to accept extreme racism as only being freedoms of expression. These types of expats I find obnoxious and there seems an awful lot of these types over here and believe these issues should be addressed.  Please don`t try to label me as being something just because I deplore racism and then try to make comparisons with affairs that are happening abroad.  

 

 

 

 

[Rc2702]

OP makes it sound like he was invited to a KKK meeting. Extreme racism? Still waiting.  

[buick]

i meet up with a guy from northern ireland a couple times a month.  he doesn't like catholics (he is protestant).  and he'll throw in a few other comments that some would not like all that much.  but i don't find it all that offending.  i mean it is just words, as i was told growing up, 'sticks and stones will break your bones, names will never hurt you'.  some people need to toughen up a bit.   

[roundtheworld]

Brilliant post 19 from jesimps.

 

On the other end of the scale peter48 refers to ' the older, little educated ( no college education ) were most likely to vote Brexit. Such people with little education do not understand economics, tariff free trade, single market, importance of migration - .'  Are these the older working and lower middle class you refer to who have seen their wages decrease over the years or their jobs taken as the country opened up to uncontrolled immigration? Unskilled workers from poor countries who would work for half of what the Brits were working for and think they have hit the jackpot. Uncontrolled immigration from poor countries was never going to be good news for indigenous workers at the lower end of the scale.

 

Of course immigration can be beneficial to the economy and the natives if it is controlled and only those who can prove that they have the skills to work and a job available should be let in. I remember when the UK  joined the EEC . Good idea then. Single market and stronger together etc. Nobody said back then anything about laws being dicatated to from Brussels or courts ruling who could and couldn't be deported from ones country. I think it was in 2004 that the UK government estimated something like 13,000 Poles would arrive in the first year. That's how many showed up at Victoria bus station the first morning when work rules were relaxed. Politicians are either clueless or they have a bigger plan at hand. Import cheap labour for their buddies in big business?  Long term Brexit will benefit the U.K. Why be restrained to doing business with the failing EU when they can negotiate deals with the US, China, India and Australia for e.g? And they will still be trading with the EU. Expats abroad will suffer with a weak pound but this situation will rectify itself and the U.K will be a stronger country and once again independent of foreign interference. 

 

Those who have lost jobs or seen their wages fall or their own countries inner cities change beyond recognition in such a short period of time have every right to complain. They have been shouted down and called racist but they are only saying what they have seen unfold before their very eyes. And when expats here talk about Pakistanis or Nigerians for e.g. in negative tones that doesn't necessarily mean they would look down on Thais. Because it's obvious to most of them ( I hope )  the Thais are a totally different ballgame. A wonderful people and Thailand is a great country. 

[Puwa]

Outspoken racism seems to correlate with alcoholism. A drink, a soapbox, an unsolicited opinion. The silver lining, because there always is one, is that this is how one learns about the lowlifes of foreign lands: lowlife Frenchman who hate Algerians, lowlife Brits who hate "Pakis," lowlife Americans who hate Mexicans. Thailand has long been a magnet for drunks and lowlifes of the world, sort of a UN for drunken scumbags.

[rogeroc]

10 minutes ago, Puwa said:

Outspoken racism seems to correlate with alcoholism. A drink, a soapbox, an unsolicited opinion. The silver lining, because there always is one, is that this is how one learns about the lowlifes of foreign lands: lowlife Frenchman who hate Algerians, lowlife Brits who hate "Pakis," lowlife Americans who hate Mexicans. Thailand has long been a magnet for drunks and lowlifes of the world, sort of a UN for drunken scumbags.

Sure i agree, people are far more likely to express what they truly feel and believe after a drink. I guess heavy drinking is prevelant amongst many expats and may explain at least some of the OP's observations

[Gecko123]

Racists are so full of anger and resentment they often have difficulty maintaining normal relationships, and are attracted to Thailand's sex trade.

[hdkane]

15 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I think places like Pattaya tend to attract a disproportionately high number of people like that. I find that in Bangkok there are many open-minded, liberal types, although maybe that's just the company I mix in!

It's naive to equate being liberal with an open mind.  Most liberals I know have a very closed mind and would never shift their thinking even when presented with facts or opposing information.

[hdkane]

1 hour ago, Goanna said:

There must be some small minded tiny thought process, from a person living in a sheltered little left wing world, that no one else should be interested in what goes on in the rest of the world.

 

Wakey wakey. The world is bigger than your quarter rai. Or are there some examples of what you allude to? None have shown up yet. 

 

Back into your shell, and let the rest of us take care of what you are afraid to face. 

Absolutely...most people who want to talk about the topic of racism have a personal agenda to pursue...in my experience, if they are white (the usual oppressors of "diversity"), they are usually beta males who wish to make themselves feel better by pointing out the failings of others...in all my time doing volunteer work that would benefit different races or groups, I've never worked alongside a liberal who wasn't using the experience to their personal benefit (a line on a resume, or to impress someone, or they were forced to work/volunteer)...provide an example, rather than a subjective impression...real men and women prefer to work with facts, not feelings.

[hdkane]

16 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Racists are so full of anger and resentment they often have difficulty maintaining normal relationships, and are attracted to Thailand's sex trade.

The sex trade is what attracts most men, regardless of political views.

[rogeroc]

45 minutes ago, roundtheworld said:

 

 

Of course immigration can be beneficial to the economy and the natives if it is controlled and only those who can prove that they have the skills to work and a job available should be let in. 

So did you have the required skills and a job lined up to be allowed into Thailand?

[GreasyFingers]

23 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Racists are so full of anger and resentment they often have difficulty maintaining normal relationships, and are attracted to Thailand's sex trade.

That is not necessarily so. I know I am a racist as I do not like arabs, south africans (white ones) and fat people. Probably a bigot too but no one has called me one. But I am not full of anger and resentment, do not have trouble maintaining normal relationships (although a couple of past wives may not agree) and what is wrong with sex with a Thai woman. Many of them are very attractive to my eye.

Edited July 27, 2017 by GreasyFingers
addition

[billd766]

2 hours ago, peter48 said:

Sociologically the kinds of people who often  become Ex-Pats are often quite right wing and are bitter about Europe , refugees or elsewhere. In Spain like Benidorm they found last year before the referendum vote  among the Ex-Pat Brits there were many Brexit types last year who now are suffering from falling pound, less spending money,  threats to EU health care and so on. These types are often Daily Mail and Express or Sun readers and they swallow the UKIP, right wing nonsense that affected some Brits. In the Referendum vote the older, little  educated ( no college education)  were most likely to vote Brexit.

 

Such people with little education do not understand economics, tariff free trade, Single Market , importance of migration ( USA Silicon Valley is predominately staffed by many migrant Eastern, Asian , Middle Eastern talent in computing, maths science etc.,)  Places like Hongkong, Singapore,  London, New York, LA, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam etc do well because they are open economies not isolated or nationalistic ( UK and USA were open but now Right Wing getting upper hand in some ways). Less educated people become victims of right wing propaganda as their politicians use migrants as Scapegoats just like lat 1930s.  I have used generalisations here and I am sure there many Ex_Pats who know that extreme nationalism is not good. 

 

 

 

Thank you very much for diagnosing my problem. It is not often I get something for nothing, but certainly in my case you managed to get most of it wrong. This of course is the problem of generalisation.

 

I am one of the people you describe as having little education, (I left school at 15 in 1959 to go to work). No I didn't go to college or university as it was not available at the time to me.

 

Instead I joined the RAF and served 25 years, boy and man in my first career. When I left the military I had a couple of unsatisfactory and boring jobs before my second career in the mobile phone industry both in the UK and internationally. I quit that after 10 years and started my own company contracting to the mobile industry as my 3rd career and formed another company here in Thailand.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't read the Sun, Mail or the Espress to form my opinions. I can do that on my own.

 

Yes I did vote UKIP at the election before Mrs May's quickie election because I could see no other way of expressing my feelings in UK politics. At the last one I voted Conservative to prevent Labour and the Lib Dems trying to win the seat. No I did not take any notice of right wing propoganda and neither did I take any notice of left wing propoganda. I listened and read what was published from ALL sides and made my own decisions.

 

Would I vote UKIP again? Not the way it is presently constituted. There is too much in fighting and nobody with the experience Nigel Farage had. Lib Dems or Labour, not a chance. The Lib Dems change their leader far too often and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn have promised far too much and have no idea how to pay for it. The Tories are the only viable way at the moment but that says very little about their performance othe r than poor but just about a passing grade. Could and must do better but with the opposition they have mediocre is the best that is available.

 

Yes I am older and wiser now than I was in 1975 when I voted to join the EEC and NOT the EU.

 

No I don't understand economics, (do you?) nor do the majority of any population in the world.

 

I do understand about migration which I do like, but NOT uncontrolled or migrants being forced upon a country as a "quota" from the EU. Having said that migrants should have a job to go to and be able to support themselves and their families. I have working in Thailand a few times though now I am retired but at all times I have been able to support my wife and family.

 

Your problem as you admit is that you have used generalisations which really are meaningless.

[rijb]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Thank you very much for diagnosing my problem. It is not often I get something for nothing, but certainly in my case you managed to get most of it wrong. This of course is the problem of generalisation.

 

I am one of the people you describe as having little education, (I left school at 15 in 1959 to go to work). No I didn't go to college or university as it was not available at the time to me.

 

Instead I joined the RAF and served 25 years, boy and man in my first career. When I left the military I had a couple of unsatisfactory and boring jobs before my second career in the mobile phone industry both in the UK and internationally. I quit that after 10 years and started my own company contracting to the mobile industry as my 3rd career and formed another company here in Thailand.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't read the Sun, Mail or the Espress to form my opinions. I can do that on my own.

 

Yes I did vote UKIP at the election before Mrs May's quickie election because I could see no other way of expressing my feelings in UK politics. At the last one I voted Conservative to prevent Labour and the Lib Dems trying to win the seat. No I did not take any notice of right wing propoganda and neither did I take any notice of left wing propoganda. I listened and read what was published from ALL sides and made my own decisions.

 

Would I vote UKIP again? Not the way it is presently constituted. There is too much in fighting and nobody with the experience Nigel Farage had. Lib Dems or Labour, not a chance. The Lib Dems change their leader far too often and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn have promised far too much and have no idea how to pay for it. The Tories are the only viable way at the moment but that says very little about their performance othe r than poor but just about a passing grade. Could and must do better but with the opposition they have mediocre is the best that is available.

 

Yes I am older and wiser now than I was in 1975 when I voted to join the EEC and NOT the EU.

 

No I don't understand economics, (do you?) nor do the majority of any population in the world.

 

I do understand about migration which I do like, but NOT uncontrolled or migrants being forced upon a country as a "quota" from the EU. Having said that migrants should have a job to go to and be able to support themselves and their families. I have working in Thailand a few times though now I am retired but at all times I have been able to support my wife and family.

 

Your problem as you admit is that you have used generalisations which really are meaningless.

There's nothing wrong with your communication skills.  Nicely done.

[vogie]

2 hours ago, peter48 said:

Sociologically the kinds of people who often  become Ex-Pats are often quite right wing and are bitter about Europe , refugees or elsewhere. In Spain like Benidorm they found last year before the referendum vote  among the Ex-Pat Brits there were many Brexit types last year who now are suffering from falling pound, less spending money,  threats to EU health care and so on. These types are often Daily Mail and Express or Sun readers and they swallow the UKIP, right wing nonsense that affected some Brits. In the Referendum vote the older, little  educated ( no college education)  were most likely to vote Brexit.

 

Such people with little education do not understand economics, tariff free trade, Single Market , importance of migration ( USA Silicon Valley is predominately staffed by many migrant Eastern, Asian , Middle Eastern talent in computing, maths science etc.,)  Places like Hongkong, Singapore,  London, New York, LA, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam etc do well because they are open economies not isolated or nationalistic ( UK and USA were open but now Right Wing getting upper hand in some ways). Less educated people become victims of right wing propaganda as their politicians use migrants as Scapegoats just like lat 1930s.  I have used generalisations here and I am sure there many Ex_Pats who know that extreme nationalism is not good. 

 

 

I'm generalising of course, but with a name like Peter you are probably from Switzerland?

[bberrythailand]

I could be one more of your friends, I am exactly or worst than most that you have met before <3

 

 

[The Dark Lord]

13 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I don't understand what you mean.

 

Is your complaint that some men who are married to Thai ladies are dismissive of fuzzy-wuzzies as uncivilised, based on their race?

Is it that some people who live in Thailand are anti-semitic?

Is it that some expats think that Thailand is inferior because things are done differently here than in their own country?

Is it that some expats seize on short-comings in Thailand, and use them to condemn the whole nation?

I don't understand what your original post is about, without more specific examples.

 

Or is it your concern that for some people, wherever they go, a Tim is still a Tim?

 

SC

Careful old bean, the derogatory use of the name Tim may refer to a catholic in the context in which you used it but it also refers to people who were christened with that name.....

[simple1]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

Please don`t try to label me as being something just because I deplore racism

A common method by those to the right of centre in an effort to suppress opinion. a group who are represented by more than a few other posters in this topic.

 

I too, when I lived in Thailand, came across a number of white foreigners who I found extremely unpleasant in attitudes - know what you're talking about.

Edited July 27, 2017 by simple1

[The Dark Lord]

4 hours ago, jesimps said:

I knew as soon as I saw the title of this post that it was going to be from a left-winger. Racist, bigot, fascist are words that naturally roll off their tongue. Now add to that, leaver or Brexiteer. These descriptions, the left apply to anyone who's political beliefs are in opposition to theirs. Even when they're in the minority, ie the US election and Brexit referendum result as cases in point, they still think the majority are extremists for not voting the same way as them. A bit like the soldier who says "Look mum, I'm the only one in step".

 

I genuinely believe that the left are the extemists, in fact I think a lot of their beliefs are evil. Without getting into a debate about it, I personally think that the killing of unborn babies is abominable. I think that letting immigration get out of control is letting the people of a country down. I believe that murderers should be put down. I abhor violent leftist protestors. I think that Brexit is a good thing for the UK, despite living in Thailand and struggling because of the low pound. I believe that everyone has the right to like or dislike who they choose and for whatever reason. Take you, I suspect you dislike right wingers and in my opinion, you have the right to do so. 

 

I don't like starting political threads on here, but when I see a post like yours I feel that it needs a response from someone who doesn't agree with what you say. I can't understand how you'd want to start a thread about it though. You're that soldier who I referred to in my first para.

 

By the way, I've been with my Thai wife for ten years and I'm incredibly happy, but I reserve the right to criticise her and other Thais whenever I choose. It doesn't make me a Thai basher. Same goes for what I think of other people and races. Goodness knows, I moan about the UK often enough. You'll probably find that the people you're generalising about, probably moan about their own country as much as any other. Of course, you won't admit that because it doesn't fit your political agenda.

 

 

 

One of those very rare well penned and balanced postings on TVF. 

 

Well said my friend!

[Goanna]

51 minutes ago, Puwa said:

Outspoken racism seems to correlate with alcoholism. A drink, a soapbox, an unsolicited opinion. The silver lining, because there always is one, is that this is how one learns about the lowlifes of foreign lands: lowlife Frenchman who hate Algerians, lowlife Brits who hate "Pakis," lowlife Americans who hate Mexicans. Thailand has long been a magnet for drunks and lowlifes of the world, sort of a UN for drunken scumbags.

Fantastic teetotaler post. Put the racist hate on everyone except your self. What a sorry world you must live in. Learn some tolerance. I'm sure the drinkers would be more than happy to explain it to you, as I would. 

We are a happy bunch, and would shout you a drink, just for you to release some of that anger. Chok dee.

[Flying Kiwi]

I agree with you 100% your comments were very well written

[hugh2121]

If I don't like Germans or Russians for example, why does this make me a racist? In any case, what's wrong with being a racist? It's my choice who I like and dislike. PC brigade can go take a running jump.

[IAMHERE]

I get it, if I disagree or offer an explanation then I am a NAZI. Sure, make me want to debate this subject honestly. 

[The Dark Lord]

38 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Thank you very much for diagnosing my problem. It is not often I get something for nothing, but certainly in my case you managed to get most of it wrong. This of course is the problem of generalisation.

 

I am one of the people you describe as having little education, (I left school at 15 in 1959 to go to work). No I didn't go to college or university as it was not available at the time to me.

 

Instead I joined the RAF and served 25 years, boy and man in my first career. When I left the military I had a couple of unsatisfactory and boring jobs before my second career in the mobile phone industry both in the UK and internationally. I quit that after 10 years and started my own company contracting to the mobile industry as my 3rd career and formed another company here in Thailand.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't read the Sun, Mail or the Espress to form my opinions. I can do that on my own.

 

Yes I did vote UKIP at the election before Mrs May's quickie election because I could see no other way of expressing my feelings in UK politics. At the last one I voted Conservative to prevent Labour and the Lib Dems trying to win the seat. No I did not take any notice of right wing propoganda and neither did I take any notice of left wing propoganda. I listened and read what was published from ALL sides and made my own decisions.

 

Would I vote UKIP again? Not the way it is presently constituted. There is too much in fighting and nobody with the experience Nigel Farage had. Lib Dems or Labour, not a chance. The Lib Dems change their leader far too often and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn have promised far too much and have no idea how to pay for it. The Tories are the only viable way at the moment but that says very little about their performance othe r than poor but just about a passing grade. Could and must do better but with the opposition they have mediocre is the best that is available.

 

Yes I am older and wiser now than I was in 1975 when I voted to join the EEC and NOT the EU.

 

No I don't understand economics, (do you?) nor do the majority of any population in the world.

 

I do understand about migration which I do like, but NOT uncontrolled or migrants being forced upon a country as a "quota" from the EU. Having said that migrants should have a job to go to and be able to support themselves and their families. I have working in Thailand a few times though now I am retired but at all times I have been able to support my wife and family.

 

Your problem as you admit is that you have used generalisations which really are meaningless.

Yet another astute and well written post. Odd that  one finds such gems amongst the other rubbish posted

[Puwa]

13 minutes ago, Goanna said:

Fantastic teetotaler post. Put the racist hate on everyone except your self. What a sorry world you must live in. Learn some tolerance. I'm sure the drinkers would be more than happy to explain it to you, as I would. 

We are a happy bunch, and would shout you a drink, just for you to release some of that anger. Chok dee.

Haha thanks, I quite enjoyed it myself. In fact, it was your avatar that I spotted earlier in the thread that helped me make the connection. I'm not a teetotaler though. I was just pondering about a relationship between alcoholism, which is one kind of disease, and virulently hateful racism, which is another kind of disease. Interesting new views on the latter 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071634/

http://bigthink.com/articles/is-racism-a-form-of-mental-illness

 

There are also some interesting videos of people having extreme racist breakdowns in which you can observe the same behavior repeated often enough to suggest a  pattern.

[roundtheworld]

rogeroc, I'm here as a tourist on a tourist visa spending my money. Those searching for work in Thailand will find it a lot more difficult to secure employment than immigrants in the U.K. Even the unskilled can move to and walk into work in the UK. Here in Thailand a lot of jobs are reserved for Thais. I think Thailand is too extreme in that sense but I do respect their right to protect their workforce. And I think a points system like what Australia have would be a step in the right direction for the U.K. 

[Bill Miller]

Significant numbers of racists and bigots would not admit to being such under torture.
They will also go to amazing lengths to "prove" that they could not possibly be such.
I think some numbers are now living in Thailand, et alia, because the local people do not for a variety of reasons call them out on their prejudices.
I did have occasion to unfriend an expat from Isaan because of his unabashed (Nazi like) anti-Semitism.
I will do such to anyone who displays this type of bigotry whether towards Jews, blacks, Thais, LGBQT persons, etc.