Jomtien Immigration: Reporting returns after travel

[soisanuk]

32 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I was with a guy who just got fined 5k for not reporting after his arrival from overseas.  He owns his house, but is not on a retirement visa.  To say he was pissed is an understatement.  First time it's happened to him in many years of coming and going.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Pattaya City Expats Club continues to note in their Chonburi Immigration updates that the officers in the office shown in the posted photo as well as others in the the Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration office tell different stories as to who must report if they have traveled outside Thailand - some say if less than  30 days, 14 days, 7 days, within 24 hours.  So, who do you rely on?  The rule is within 24 hours and as noted, it is in writing - what the officer tells you is not and if you don't follow the written rule, you run the risk of being fined.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

^^^ Alas, the fact that what I posted (over 30 days and you must report) can be reinterpreted/overruled by the next officer is exasperating and potentially costly. This morning in fact, I was still questioning what I would do the next time I leave and re-enter Thailand. I'm nearing the point of washing my hands of the whole thing and keeping my apartment in VN.  

[maechanman]

I am completely baffled by what I need to do regarding my situation. Currently I'm in the UK and plan to return to Pattaya in a couple of weeks having been out the country for approx 2 months.

I'm on a retirement visa and live in a hotel where I've resided for a number of years,I pay every 3 months so I come and go as I please so most times the staff don't even know if I've been away or not.

This leads to the question how can they report to Immigration my comings and goings if they don't know exactly when I'm there and when I'm not, presumably they must have submitted a TM 30 at some time.

Anyway I've never personally submitted a TM30 and never been asked to do so when I renewed my retirement extension last April and all 90 day reports I've done.

Does anybody know if or not I should report to Immigration when I return to notify them that I've returned?

[balo]

I will not report if Im on a weekend trip to Bangkok , thats for sure. Just continue as before , 100000s of people are moving around in Thailand daily.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, maechanman said:

I am completely baffled by what I need to do regarding my situation. Currently I'm in the UK and plan to return to Pattaya in a couple of weeks having been out the country for approx 2 months.

I'm on a retirement visa and live in a hotel where I've resided for a number of years,I pay every 3 months so I come and go as I please so most times the staff don't even know if I've been away or not.

This leads to the question how can they report to Immigration my comings and goings if they don't know exactly when I'm there and when I'm not, presumably they must have submitted a TM 30 at some time.

Anyway I've never personally submitted a TM30 and never been asked to do so when I renewed my retirement extension last April and all 90 day reports I've done.

Does anybody know if or not I should report to Immigration when I return to notify them that I've returned?

IMO, unless you have stayed in an hotel elsewhere and had a TM 30 generated at that location, you don't need to make a new one.

If you did have a TM 30 made elsewhere, you would have to tell the hotel you live in to make a new one and get a photocopy of the report for your 90 day report.

 

BTW, it's not YOUR responsibility to submit a TM 30.

[tropo]

15 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

The officer behind the desk in this office (photo) said that if you are OUT of Thailand more than 30 days, you must report to immigration within 24 hours of arrival.  You do NOT have to report if less than 30 days, as long as it's to the same address recorded by Immigration. I asked her twice. If it's a new address, the 24 hour condition kicks in. The reporting office is left inside the main door, just to the right of the check-in officer. The front desk has the form. The second photo shows what you need for the submission. Now, a year or two ago, I went to the second floor to report my new address. With the new enforcement, maybe they've moved it downstairs.

 

 

And what if the owner is a foreigner and you rent his property through a real estate company and don't have direct contact with the owner? Can you pass on #6 and #7?

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

And what if the owner is a foreigner and you rent his property through a real estate company and don't have direct contact with the owner? Can you pass on #6 and #7?

I think a tenant of a rental property acquired through an agency possibly has a better chance of getting copies of the Blue book and the owners ID card or passport if foreign owned. I would think that getting copies of these documents is part of the the letting agencies procedures when agreeing to allow a property owner to list their property for rent? Maybe the smaller, local, mom & pop rental agencies waive this and assume that a property being offered for rent by anyone other than the legitimate owners is a small risk.

 

The problems may arise when one is renting direct from a Thai property owner who does not want to share this information for whatever erasons. A foreign property owner should be agreeable to providing the Blue book and his passport otherwise he may be looking for a new tenant.

 

Certainly was something I became very aware of these past few years and luckily, the foreign-domiciled Thai owner of my last rental and her Thai letting agent had no issues providing these documents. If ever I re-enter the rental market as a potential tenant, not getting copies of these two documents will be a deal breaker.

[tropo]

51 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I think a tenant of a rental property acquired through an agency possibly has a better chance of getting copies of the Blue book and the owners ID card or passport if foreign owned. I would think that getting copies of these documents is part of the the letting agencies procedures when agreeing to allow a property owner to list their property for rent? Maybe the smaller, local, mom & pop rental agencies waive this and assume that a property being offered for rent by anyone other than the legitimate owners is a small risk.

 

The problems may arise when one is renting direct from a Thai property owner who does not want to share this information for whatever erasons. A foreign property owner should be agreeable to providing the Blue book and his passport otherwise he may be looking for a new tenant.

 

Certainly was something I became very aware of these past few years and luckily, the foreign-domiciled Thai owner of my last rental and her Thai letting agent had no issues providing these documents. If ever I re-enter the rental market as a potential tenant, not getting copies of these two documents will be a deal breaker.

What you're saying here is perfectly logical and I would have thought the same. I rent my house through probably the largest rental agency in Pattaya, yet when I asked them for a copy of the Blue Book they couldn't oblige. Perhaps I'd need to push harder. I've never seen a Blue Book before and never needed to. I do have a copy of the landlord's passport (unsigned though).

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that it may not be necessary. I didn't ask as I saw the list on the wall and assumed I didn't have the necessary paperwork. Perhaps they are accepting rental contracts only now. That would make sense as most people rent and cannot easily get such paperwork. I will make an inquiry about this upon my next visit if no one can provide an answer earlier here.

 

This year is the first time I've rented a place through a real estate agency, so it's all new to me.

Edited August 3, 2017 by tropo

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

I could be completely wrong but looking at the list, I think it's an either/or list but not expressed that way in English: Either No. 5 (rental contract) OR if you are the owner or the wife is, then you have to provide  for No. 6/7.  

 

FYI: Maybe you could visit that office in the photo and present your rental contract and ask if that's enough for any future return report. If the answer is yes, then you can relax.

 

Today, Thursday, that office in the photo was packed just after 13:00. But when I was there Wednesday morning, around 08:30, there was only one guy ahead of me. 

[NanLaew]

**** Disclaimer ****

 

The following 3 scenarios are very real but for purposes of this thread ARE TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL. Nobody in either of these 3 scenarios has been fined and neither of them have done the extra "return reporting" either. At this juncture, this is is solely to get an idea of how these scenarios may be handled BASED ON THE FACTS AS WE KNOW THEM AND ACTUAL EXPERIENCES of members.

 

Thanks in advance for considering these.!

NL

 

*****

 

Scenario #1: A foreigner on a 1-year 'marriage visa' with a Thai wife and living in a rental property has been out of Thailand and working for the last 4 months in his home country, ie. his wife and family are still in the Pattaya rental home. He comes to visit family in Pattaya for 3 weeks, staying at same address as before. He was stamped in for the 90-days afforded by his O-A visa on this most recent arrival. Does he have to report his return?

 

Scenario #2. A foreign condo-owner on a 'marriage extension' goes to his home country for 4 weeks vacation. When he returns, he will get stamped in for the remaining duration of his extension (say January 2018) and will stay at same condo. Does he have to report his return?

 

Scenario #3. A foreigner on 'retirement extension' and living in a rental property leaves the country for 6 weeks. It has been 2 months since his last exit/re-entry and apart from 90-day reports prior to the previous exit/re-entry, he has not reported at Jomtien between these foreign trips. He obtains a re-entry permit at the airport immediately prior to departure and in line with his previous exit/re-entry which was also enabled by a re-entry permit issued at the airport, he will have no issues with Immigration at the airport regarding any perceived lack of "return reporting."

 

HOWEVER... If he chooses to apply for his re-entry permit at Jomtien, they will see that he made a trip overseas over 2 months ago and not reported his return. Will the Re-entry desk people refer him to the new and very busy "return reporting" office where he will be fined 5000 baht + 200 baht/day for each day between his last arrival in country and the current date?

 

Is it safe to say that if you are either going to be in-and-out of Thailand within your permitted to stay date OR will have no business at all with Jomtien Immigration such as annual extension renewal, extension of validity on the current permitted to stay date, change of address or 90-day report, etc., during that stay, then there's absolutely no way they will know where you have been or when and thus no need to do this additional "return reporting?"

 

OR...

 

In the instances of the guys in Scenario #2 and #3 above: when they go to do their next 90-day report and/or extension renewal, will Jomtien Immigration see they have had several overseas excursions between 3 and 6 months earlier where they did NOT report their return and be very heavily fined at that time?

 

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by NanLaew

[Pattaya46]

 

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I think a tenant of a rental property acquired through an agency possibly has a better chance of getting copies of the Blue book //

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think that the Blue Book is a mandatory document that every owner should have. Many farang condo owners have neither Blue Book nor Yellow Book.

BTW there is no information other than the address in this Blue Book.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

It's amazing that this is what it's come to, working up scenarios, because we just don't know if the reporting law is being enforced and the conditions under which it will be applied.

 

It's enough madness to spur one to consider a new destination or return to the homeland. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[NanLaew]

42 minutes ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

It's amazing that this is what it's come to, working up scenarios, because we just don't know if the reporting law is being enforced and the conditions under which it will be applied.

 

It's enough madness to spur one to consider a new destination or return to the homeland. 

Unfortunately, that's all we have when it comes to many things in LOS and not just the local vagaries of Immigration offices and even individual officers in these offices.

 

What I am trying to define with the scenarios is what visa/extension/travel/personal circumstances combination pretty much guarantees you will be busted... if any. These 3 scenarios are real world actual situations for myself and a couple of buddies. When this exercise started a fair few months ago, some who were fined were all about indignant rage and very light on details as to why they got redirected to the new room in the first place. That's why I underlined the personal circumstances bit above. Others posted they were in doing a 90-day report, saw the signage and went and self-reported where they were allegedly congratulated rather than fined. Sure enough there's enough official signage posted to make it look like the onus is on us to report first rather than be caught but by the same token, myself and couple of friends all renewed various extensions at Jomtien without any trouble around the same time as others were being busted at the start of the year.

 

Since the online reporting system for hotels and guesthouses has apparently been taken down, I can imagine that it is possible that they are ramping up self-reporting to try and catch those falling through the cracks? I am pretty sure major hotels have a backup plan for the loss of online reporting to comply fully with the law but I would wager the thousands of small hotels, guesthouses (registered and otherwise) and rental condos and airbnb lets that probably make up the bulk of available rooms in Pattaya don't and never did in the first place.

[NanLaew]

On 8/2/2017 at 0:17 PM, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

The officer behind the desk in this office (photo) said that if you are OUT of Thailand more than 30 days, you must report to immigration within 24 hours of arrival.  You do NOT have to report if less than 30 days, as long as it's to the same address recorded by Immigration. I asked her twice. If it's a new address, the 24 hour condition kicks in. The reporting office is left inside the main door, just to the right of the check-in officer. The front desk has the form. The second photo shows what you need for the submission. Now, a year or two ago, I went to the second floor to report my new address. With the new enforcement, maybe they've moved it downstairs.

 

 

Confusingly enough, the name above the door is the wording from the TM30 form "NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR THE POSSESSOR (OF THE RESIDENCE WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED") that home owners, landlords and otherwise possessors of houses need to file.

 

The self-filing form is TM28 which is "FORM FOR ALIENS TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS"

 

Based on the title above the office door, I would suggest self-filers have no business in that room or TBH anywhere else in the office.

Edited August 3, 2017 by NanLaew

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Based on the title above the office door, I would suggest self-filers have no business in that room or TBH anywhere else in the office.

Yeah, but . . . This was the office I was directed to by the front check-in staffer after I asked when do I report my return to Thailand. The staffer said more than 30 days and indeed, so did the officer in the office. Which leads one to think, just go about your normal 90-day reports/or outward travel. No need to do a separate report. And yet, we really don't know if this is proper information.  

Edited August 4, 2017 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:06 AM, tropo said:

And what if the owner is a foreigner and you rent his property through a real estate company and don't have direct contact with the owner? Can you pass on #6 and #7?

I'd assume that some sort of proof that you resided at that address would be required. You must have some sort of rental contract  if renting with an agency.

The problem is if renting from an individual ( without any contract ) that will not supply any form of proof to you.

I did a TM 30 for my Thai wife at Chiang Mai without any proof of residence ( she filled it in in Thai ), but that may no longer be acceptable. For my last extension at that address I had a letter from the owner and a signed copy of their blue book.

Edited August 4, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[NanLaew]

Some of these alleged fines have been levied for not reporting residential address changes within 24-hours. Whatever happened to the excuse, "We just moved there yesterday?"

[lou62]

I didn't know about a TM 30. A friend told me, anyway I made a trip to immigration.

 

I'd been back 45 days since my return to Thailand. Fined 9000 Bt.

 

It was 200 Bt per day,  didn't have to pay the 5000 Bt that I also would have been charged as well had I not turned myself in (so to speak).

 

I'm on a retirement extension and have been on the system for a few years now.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

18 minutes ago, lou62 said:

I didn't know about a TM 30. A friend told me, anyway I made a trip to immigration.

 

I'd been back 45 days since my return to Thailand. Fined 9000 Bt.

 

It was 200 Bt per day,  didn't have to pay the 5000 Bt that I also would have been charged as well had I not turned myself in (so to speak).

 

I'm on a retirement extension and have been on the system for a few years now.

 

Oh, that hurt. This was in Jomtien, I take it?

 

I would guess there are thousands of expat condo/house owners who don't know about this precisely because Immigration is now enforcing the law. At least in Jomtien and Chiang Mai, especially.

[lou62]

19 minutes ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

Oh, that hurt. This was in Jomtien, I take it?

 

I would guess there are thousands of expat condo/house owners who don't know about this precisely because Immigration is now enforcing the law. At least in Jomtien and Chiang Mai, especially.

 

 

Yes Jomtien, I should have been more specific.

[wpcoe]

2 hours ago, lou62 said:

I didn't know about a TM 30. A friend told me, anyway I made a trip to immigration.

 

I'd been back 45 days since my return to Thailand. Fined 9000 Bt.

 

It was 200 Bt per day,  didn't have to pay the 5000 Bt that I also would have been charged as well had I not turned myself in (so to speak).

 

I'm on a retirement extension and have been on the system for a few years now.

Had you previously filed a TM.30 for your current address before you departed Thailand and then not advised them you returned after being gone 30+ days, or was this a fine for not ever having filed a TM.30 for your current address?

[lou62]

16 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Had you previously filed a TM.30 for your current address before you departed Thailand and then not advised them you returned after being gone 30+ days, or was this a fine for not ever having filed a TM.30 for your current address?

 

I've never filled a TM 30 in before. They know my address as I've registered it at

 

immigration  many times over the years. I was only out the country for 10 days.

[tropo]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Some of these alleged fines have been levied for not reporting residential address changes within 24-hours. Whatever happened to the excuse, "We just moved there yesterday?"

LOL> I reported mine a month after actually moving. I was going to use your excuse suggestion if queried, but no questions were asked.

[balo]

 
I've never filled a TM 30 in before. They know my address as I've registered it at
 
immigration  many times over the years. I was only out the country for 10 days.

I am not sure what to make of this, if you're telling the truth , we'll all be in trouble soon .

[Pattaya46]

38 minutes ago, balo said:

I am not sure what to make of this, if you're telling the truth , we'll all be in trouble soon .

 

My opinion - if like most of us you never made a TM30 - is to do nothing until the next time you will travel outside Thailand.

- If you go Jomtien Immigration now to make one, you take a big risk to be fined

- If you don't ask for it, looks like Jomtien does not look for the TM30 when you make other operations (extension, 90-Days, ...)

So I will wait and  make a first TM30 the next time I come back from abroad.

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

My opinion - if like most of us you never made a TM30 - is to do nothing until the next time you will travel outside Thailand.

- If you go Jomtien Immigration now to make one, you take a big risk to be fined

- If you don't ask for it, looks like Jomtien does not look for the TM30 when you make other operations (extension, 90-Days, ...)

So I will wait and  make a first TM30 the next time I come back from abroad.

It'd be really interesting to hear from somebody after they've tried this!  I've never filed a TM30 and never been asked for one.  And leave the Kingdom at least 2 times per year for more than 30 days.

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, lou62 said:

I didn't know about a TM 30. A friend told me, anyway I made a trip to immigration.

 

I'd been back 45 days since my return to Thailand. Fined 9000 Bt.

 

It was 200 Bt per day,  didn't have to pay the 5000 Bt that I also would have been charged as well had I not turned myself in (so to speak).

 

I'm on a retirement extension and have been on the system for a few years now.

I would be telling your friend that he can go get his own beer!

 

Jomtien IO has a new milking machine!

 

It is making so much moolah, they have managed to relocate the original, purpose-built milking shed from near the back where it was when they first installed the milking machine to just inside the front door. I won't be surprised if the milking shed gets bigger before the end of the year.

 

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

My opinion - if like most of us you never made a TM30 - is to do nothing until the next time you will travel outside Thailand.

- If you go Jomtien Immigration now to make one, you take a big risk to be fined

- If you don't ask for it, looks like Jomtien does not look for the TM30 when you make other operations (extension, 90-Days, ...)

So I will wait and  make a first TM30 the next time I come back from abroad.

Or, you can continue to totally avoid being milked and completely ignore it. Since they are not asking for TM30's  when doing 90-day reports or filing extensions, why be honest?

 

And if that last question rankles those deluded souls who are in a rush to do their bit to curb the national penchant for backhanders, they started it.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

I would not have known about the reporting requirement if I hadn't moved from Bangkok to Pattaya, i.e., changed districts. Fortunately, I had been in a non-enforcing district. Having moved, the management duly reported me and suddenly I was in compliance. LOL Now, I (might) have no choice but to attend the milking shed.

 

23 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

It is making so much moolah, they have managed to relocate the original, purpose-built milking shed from near the back where it was when they first installed the milking machine to just inside the front door. I won't be surprised if the milking shed gets bigger before the end of the year.

 

I would chuckle at your metaphor except for the fact that I think you have a very good chance of being correct. 

 

To be honest, I'm reconsidering my decision to move back here, not just because of a fear of sheds.

 

 

 

 

[tropo]

56 minutes ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

I would not have known about the reporting requirement if I hadn't moved from Bangkok to Pattaya, i.e., changed districts. Fortunately, I had been in a non-enforcing district. Having moved, the management duly reported me and suddenly I was in compliance. LOL Now, I (might) have no choice but to attend the milking shed.

 

 

I would chuckle at your metaphor except for the fact that I think you have a very good chance of being correct. 

 

To be honest, I'm reconsidering my decision to move back here, not just because of a fear of sheds.

 

 

You never know - it could all blow over. Stranger things have happened.

Edited August 8, 2017 by tropo

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

I really don't see how you would need to apologize, Lou62. What a shame though that you didn't have a receipt. Makes me suspicious of the Jomtien IO you dealt with. But water under the bridge now, sadly.