Sin taxes set to rise to cover welfare for elderly poor

[webfact]

Sin taxes set to rise to cover welfare for elderly poor

By The Nation

 

File photo

 

BANGKOK: -- The Cabinet on Tuesday approved a 2-percentage-point increase in “sin” taxes for the purpose of funding welfare for the elderly poor.

 

Ministers gave the nod to an elderly welfare bill that will require an increase of this magnitude in the excise duty on alcoholic beverages and cigarettes in order to support a welfare fund for senior citizens who are poor, Prime Minister’s Office Vice Minister Kobsak Pootrakool said.

 

Under the measure, the fund will receive about Bt4 billion annually from the Excise Department for this purpose. 

 

The number of elderly poor around the country is estimated to be 3.5 million and, while these senior citizens currently get monthly handouts from the government, the amount they receive is not sufficient, he explained. 

 

The Finance Ministry this month is expected to submit new excise rates for Cabinet approval, including the higher duties on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages. 

 

Cigarette taxes currently range from 10 to 87 per cent of the ex-factory price, while duties on alcoholic drinks range from 25 to 60 per cent.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/business/30322510

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-08-02

[PatOngo]

Corruption is the greatest sin. Tax the corrupt!

[rkidlad]

What about money for the subs? No one wants them. Use that money for the very people you claim to love. 

 

Na, just tax the average man even more. 

[inThailand]

The biggest sins are coming from those in power. 

[Thaiwrath]

How about increasing the pathetic fines of 500 baht, in Road Rage knife incidents instead, and putting such funds towards the elderly ?

[Cadbury]

Blind Freddy could see this tax/excise/duties increase coming. They have been hinting about it for months now. But they do it so nicely under the warm heartfelt cover of welfare for the elderly.

Can't disagree that the elderly poor need help and support but knowing this crafty government it is anybody's guess how much will go to the elderly and how much will go to military hardware.

[JAG]

Blind Freddy could see this tax/excise/duties increase coming. They have been hinting about it for months now. But they do it so nicely under the warm heartfelt cover of welfare for the elderly.

Can't disagree that the elderly poor need help and support but knowing this crafty government it is anybody's guess how much will go to the elderly and how much will go to military hardware.

Ah, but the pride swelling inside them, as they see all this fresh evidence of the military might of the nation ( for sure it will be shown on TV every evening when they play the national anthem) will take their minds off their poverty. So even if the money is used as you suggest, it will benefit them.

 

You really must be more positive old chap - look on the glass (in your case glass and a half - 'Cadburys" - get it?) as being half full.

 

[Cadbury]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

Ah, but the pride swelling inside them, as they see all this fresh evidence of the military might of the nation ( for sure it will be shown on TV every evening when they play the national anthem) will take their minds off their poverty. So even if the money is used as you suggest, it will benefit them.

 

You really must be more positive old chap - look on the glass (in your case glass and a half - 'Cadburys" - get it?) as being half full.

 

Non- sinners have been spared......for the moment. The sugar tax is still to come. In the meantime all you official "sinners" will be digging deeper for the small pleasures of life. 

I am one of those which the government now demeaningly implies as being a "sinner". Prayut has his fingerprints all over this wowserish propaganda.

As for Cadbury.......I am half full half the time. Hence the name.

[jossthaifarang]

How about using all the billions seized from Yingluck, and all these other dodgy characters. Who's pocketing all that then?

[dinsdale]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

the fund will receive about Bt4 billion annually

And distribute Bt1billion after  'administrative' costs.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Cadbury said:

Blind Freddy could see this tax/excise/duties increase coming. They have been hinting about it for months now. But they do it so nicely under the warm heartfelt cover of welfare for the elderly.

Can't disagree that the elderly poor need help and support but knowing this crafty government it is anybody's guess how much will go to the elderly and how much will go to military hardware.

Everyone wants the eldery the farmers and whoever helped.. but the moment they have to pay they start to cry. Typical, when i said raise vat 1% to cover a beter universal health care for Thais nobody agreed. Now when they tax alcohol a bit more to pay for the elderly everyone is against it..why because now they have to put their money where their mouth is.

 

I do agree about your last paragraph, it must be real clear how the money is used and if all that is received goes where it should. But if that is the fact.. why complain. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Cadbury said:

Non- sinners have been spared......for the moment. The sugar tax is still to come. In the meantime all you official "sinners" will be digging deeper for the small pleasures of life. 

I am one of those which the government now demeaningly implies as being a "sinner". Prayut has his fingerprints all over this wowserish propaganda.

As for Cadbury.......I am half full half the time. Hence the name.

I support a sugar tax, would be a good thing to have some sugar free alternatives popping up and the amount of sugar in drinks decreasing.

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Everyone wants the eldery the farmers and whoever helped.. but the moment they have to pay they start to cry. Typical, when i said raise vat 1% to cover a beter universal health care for Thais nobody agreed. Now when they tax alcohol a bit more to pay for the elderly everyone is against it..why because now they have to put their money where their mouth is.

 

I do agree about your last paragraph, it must be real clear how the money is used and if all that is received goes where it should. But if that is the fact.. why complain. 

If there is money available to buy weaponary for a war you will never fight, there is money available for the elderly. Alcohol in particular is already ridiculously expensive given what people are paid here, rotgut exepted.

[robblok]

Just now, baboon said:

If there is money available to buy weaponary for a war you will never fight, there is money available for the elderly. Alcohol in particular is already ridiculously expensive given what people are paid here, rotgut exepted.

Sure baboon the money always has to come from someone else.. that is what i dislike about people who are supposed to care.. the moment they have to pay they complain.. its always so easy to point at others and say.. they should pay. .they should do with less. 

[PhuketAmerican]

4,000,000,000 baht to be spread among 3,500,000 = just over 1140 baht per person, so not likely to have a huge impact, less than 100 baht per month per senior... sounds instead like a great opportunity for some tax graft and embezzlement

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure baboon the money always has to come from someone else.. that is what i dislike about people who are supposed to care.. the moment they have to pay they complain.. its always so easy to point at others and say.. they should pay. .they should do with less. 

The security guard and the bus driver are paying plenty as it is, given what they earn. In no small part for a bloated military not to mention lazy, corrupt and arrogant civil servants. A large bottle of Chang and a fag is already what, 2 hours wages for them?

[jmccarty]

9 minutes ago, PhuketAmerican said:

4,000,000,000 baht to be spread among 3,500,000 = just over 1140 baht per person, so not likely to have a huge impact, less than 100 baht per month per senior... sounds instead like a great opportunity for some tax graft and embezzlement

Complete the math, it's THB 95/month per old poor person!  A windfall!  They won't miss it if it goes somewhere else in any case. Definitely will buy some nice Italian sports cars for someone though!

[robblok]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

The security guard and the bus driver are paying plenty as it is, given what they earn. In no small part for a bloated military not to mention lazy, corrupt and arrogant civil servants. A large bottle of Chang and a fag is already what, 2 hours wages for them?

Sure mate, as I said the moment it affects ones beer solidarity stops with a lot of people. I am not so surprised actually as I observed this before with people.. always saying government should do this that .. and then when they have to pay for it.. point at someone else.

 

The army is bloated, could do with less, and should but that does not mean sin taxes can't be added to fund it too. 

 

The fact is there is not that much tax income, so let everyone pay as they should. Why smoke if you can't afford it ? its hardly like smoking is a right and good for you. See it in Holland too people on welfare complaining about how little they get but they do smoke. 

 

 

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure mate, as I said the moment it affects ones beer solidarity stops with a lot of people. I am not so surprised actually as I observed this before with people.. always saying government should do this that .. and then when they have to pay for it.. point at someone else.

 

The army is bloated, could do with less, and should but that does not mean sin taxes can't be added to fund it too. 

 

The fact is there is not that much tax income, so let everyone pay as they should. Why smoke if you can't afford it ? its hardly like smoking is a right and good for you. See it in Holland too people on welfare complaining about how little they get but they do smoke. 

 

 

And I never thought I would see the day when you and I had a disagreement about something...

How about opening a few casinos and letting the wealthy spunk their ill gotten gains at Keno and Roulette? There has got to be a good few Baht to be had there...

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, baboon said:

And I never thought I would see the day when you and I had a disagreement about something...

How about opening a few casinos and letting the wealthy spunk their ill gotten gains at Keno and Roulette? There has got to be a good few Baht to be had there...

I agree open a casino let the wealthy spend their money, problem is poor get there too. I have no problems with gambling myself. It would be quite a money maker for the government. ( i could not care less if the rich blew their money)

 

I have a disagreement with you because, i feel everyone should pay and Thailands tax base should be bigger. You can't expect better service without more taxes. I just feel that people always want to tax others.. and the moment they have to pay themselves.. all of a sudden its not a good idea. I am just sensitive about this because the middle class and salary workers are already paying. So its more then fair for others to pay too. 

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

I agree open a casino let the wealthy spend their money, problem is poor get there too. I have no problems with gambling myself. It would be quite a money maker for the government. ( i could not care less if the rich blew their money)

 

I have a disagreement with you because, i feel everyone should pay and Thailands tax base should be bigger. You can't expect better service without more taxes. I just feel that people always want to tax others.. and the moment they have to pay themselves.. all of a sudden its not a good idea. I am just sensitive about this because the middle class and salary workers are already paying. So its more then fair for others to pay too. 

Everyone pays, but isn't there a question of what the money is spent on rather than who it comes from?

 

Yes, the poor turning up at one of our proposed casinos and losing their house is certainly a concern, but would they wish to go if Baccarat had a 500 Baht per hand minimum? 

[oldhippy]

If the sin tax is really a sin tax, why not:

 

1/ tax all animal products - after all this country claims to be buddhist.

2/ tax alcohol according to % as they do in the rest of the world.

3/ levy so much tax on sugar drinks that they are priced out of the market.

 

And I agree with Robblok - I would even say: I love to pay tax, of course on condition that we get something back in return for our taxes.

 

 

[madmitch]

Unfortunately Thailand's tax authorities are so inefficient/corrupt/lazy (delete as applicable) that few people pay income tax to the extent they should - farangs excepted!

 

For this reason sin taxes and luxury goods taxes are the best way to collect taxes from this group of income tax avoiders.

 

If income tax were pursued properly Thailand would be a richer country.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

Everyone pays, but isn't there a question of what the money is spent on rather than who it comes from?

 

Yes, the poor turning up at one of our proposed casinos and losing their house is certainly a concern, but would they wish to go if Baccarat had a 500 Baht per hand minimum? 

Sure the army should decrease spending, sure the education department should be more efficient (and tons of other examples). But I don't see this happening and in the meanwhile there is no funding. I come from the Netherlands we almost have no army decreased spending on it all the time (and I agree). I would not mind to see a smaller professional army here. But I don't see this happening. 

 

Right now money needs to go to the poor, changes in spending are never popular and almost never happen. So the alternative is do nothing.  In a peferct world id cut army spending in half, clean up the corruption and mismanagement in education so i can spend less on it. Id put that money in healthcare and care for the elderly. However these are plans that would never happen, and in the meantime nothing would change for the elderly. 

 

All we can think about is to expand the tax base right now. 

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

If the sin tax is really a sin tax, why not:

 

1/ tax all animal products - after all this country claims to be buddhist.

2/ tax alcohol according to % as they do in the rest of the world.

3/ levy so much tax on sugar drinks that they are priced out of the market.

 

And I agree with Robblok - I would even say: I love to pay tax, of course on condition that we get something back in return for our taxes.

 

 

We as foreigners will never get anything back healthcare wise.. just have to accept that when we live here. The Thai healthcare system is over stressed as it is doubt us farangs would be allowed in it at a good price at the cost of Thais.. so if that ever happens expect to pay for it big time. 

[The Dark Lord]

5 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Blind Freddy could see this tax/excise/duties increase coming. They have been hinting about it for months now. But they do it so nicely under the warm heartfelt cover of welfare for the elderly.

Can't disagree that the elderly poor need help and support but knowing this crafty government it is anybody's guess how much will go to the elderly and how much will go to military hardware.

Hi Chocolate man, 

 

To use the term crafty you infer an element of cleverness cunning or guile but from what I have seen of the muppet show it has none of those "attributes"  it's just graft ( and I am not referring to hard work) 

[The Dark Lord]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

If the sin tax is really a sin tax, why not:

 

1/ tax all animal products - after all this country claims to be buddhist.

2/ tax alcohol according to % as they do in the rest of the world.

3/ levy so much tax on sugar drinks that they are priced out of the market.

 

And I agree with Robblok - I would even say: I love to pay tax, of course on condition that we get something back in return for our taxes.

 

 

Hi old hippy dude, 

 

".......I love paying tax....." can I have some of what you are smoking please? 

 

Joking apart, you are, as ever, spot on but sadly with the exception of my stay in Singapore, I have never found any government to whom I have donated vast swathes of hard earned money to, act in a responsible manner with it. For example in the land of odourless farts the government gives away hundreds of millions of £ ( clue there) in overseas aid to countries that really no longer need it or for projects of questionable merit or value ( Ethiopian spice girls for example)  yet at home the medical care system is on the brink of imploding due to lack of funds, there are increasing numbers of homeless people appearing on the streets ( one of whom is my current non paying tenant) and they have no idea how to fund them. 

 

Is it a prerequisite to be synaptically challenged in order to get a decision making position in government nowadays?

 

Heres an idea, make prostitution legal in Paradise Lost (LoS), clean up the criminal side of the operations, turn Patts etc into a proper "sin city" and tax it. There would be an upsurge in horny but moneyed chaps ( and chapesses depending on their leaning) paying a visit from overseasvery few who would find it necessary to poop in the street and generate a shed load of money for the old. 

[The Dark Lord]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Sure the army should decrease spending, sure the education department should be more efficient (and tons of other examples). But I don't see this happening and in the meanwhile there is no funding. I come from the Netherlands we almost have no army decreased spending on it all the time (and I agree). I would not mind to see a smaller professional army here. But I don't see this happening. 

 

Right now money needs to go to the poor, changes in spending are never popular and almost never happen. So the alternative is do nothing.  In a peferct world id cut army spending in half, clean up the corruption and mismanagement in education so i can spend less on it. Id put that money in healthcare and care for the elderly. However these are plans that would never happen, and in the meantime nothing would change for the elderly. 

 

All we can think about is to expand the tax base right now. 

Hi Robby my friend, 

 

we tend to have vastly differing opinions on most everything  hence you rarely see me respond to you. I believe each person is entitled to an opinion and just because it does not fit in with my views it does not make it wrong. This time my friend I fully agree with you. Good post!

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

 

 

".......I love paying tax....." can I have some of what you are smoking please? 

 

 

Quite a few of my clients and me love paying tax too.. we see Tax as unavoidable but high tax also means we earned a lot. Its not so much we like the tax but we do like that its an indication of profits. 

 

And if you got some of what he is smoking do pass it on id like some too.

[Cadbury]

7 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

Hi Chocolate man, 

 

To use the term crafty you infer an element of cleverness cunning or guile but from what I have seen of the muppet show it has none of those "attributes"  it's just graft ( and I am not referring to hard work) 

Good point, but I was using the word "crafty" in the context of crafty self-interest and self-rewarding. Certainly not in the sense that they have a clue about what they are doing. After all they are only highly decorated soldiers who have never seen a battlefield. The least likely bunch of people you would ever want running a country.