Dance little monkey, dance!

[SABloke]

Let me start by saying that for close to a decade I have had nothing but good experiences at Chaeng Wattana. I have read that some people have had issues, but I always thought that they were just unlucky and got a grumpy Immigration Officer. I now believe that my experiences were good because I was dealing with the "N" counter people (dealing with work extensions) and not the "L" counter people (Non-O). This year I decided to do my extension of stay based on Thai family and using my job and income as financial backing for no other reason than that is seemed to make me more "free". Anyway, my visa for entry in Thailand was a Non-O this time I came. So let the rant begin:

 

Two months ago my wife and I sat in front of an Immigration Officer at the "L" section asking for what documents I would require. She gave me a long list (Thai on one side and English on the other) which was way more comprehensive than some versions found online. The last point was "Any other supporting documents that may be required". We asked what these documents were and in our case it was our landlord's Chanote for our condo (His name is not on the tabien baan) as well as name change documents (He changed his 1st name and surname over the years. I then asked the IO about the ป.ง.ด 1 (Por Ngor Dor 1) - she said that I could get copies from my school. This becomes a contentious issue later on. 

 

So we left feeling satisfied that we would  return to immigration and all would be good. Sigh.

 

So upon returning there were a few issues. The supervisor would not accept my Por Ngor Dor 1 copies. She said that I had to go to the Tax Department and get the documents from them and get their stamp on it. "But the IO said copies from my school were fine," I said. "Not ok" was the response. Fine, whatever. I could go to the tax office and get the stamp done. But then there was a problem with my Por Ngor Dor 91 (from the previous tax year). The supervisor said they couldn't accept it, because it was from a different school. I had to submit my 3 ป.ง.ด 1's only and then write a letter stating why I don't have a Por Ngor Dor 91 for 2016. "But I do have  Por Ngor Dor 91 for 2016". "We can't use that so write a letter saying you don't have one". FIne, I shall lie for you Supervisor lady. Why would they put something on the list if they don't really need it and will accept a letter instead??? Anyway, I decided that I would write the stupid letter.

 

The next documents she asked for were also not on the list: these were all the documents normally required for a work extension (school registration, school tax, etc etc). I was fortunate, because I had asked for this document set from my school in case I got denied (Which I thought could happen due to my landlord not having a tabien baan), but in reality it was dumb luck that I had them, because other applicants wouldn't have. But then came the straw that broke the camel's back ( a very insignificant straw yet enough to change my attitude to F u supervisor lady).  She said that they needed a photo of me teaching. Give me an effin' break. To get a teacher's licence and then a Work Permit takes a lot of documents and a 'proper' vetting process is carried out by the agencies in charge. the Department of Employment confirm that everything is above board so why does immigration want these extra documents? Do they not trust that my work permit is genuine - I'm surprised that they didn't ask for a letter signed by the Minister of Employment that states that my WP is genuine.

 

So I thought "eff you lady" and I told my wife (who was still diligently taking down a new set of "supporting document requirements") that I was going to get a queue number for N and that I would just do the extension based on work, because I thought (correctly in the end) that one could cite any reason for extending a non-immigrant visa as long as one had the correct supporting documents (which I did for a work extension). The supervisor heard this and said, "You can't do that. You have a visa for family so you need to change to a Non-B first". We left.

 

So now we're outside and I'm starting to doubt myself so I tell my wife that I'll go back in by myself and ask information. Information knew nothing and said I should talk to the ticket issuing counter...so I did. "Excuse me, sir, I have a quick question: I have a Non-O visa and would like to exte..." hands me a new "L" ticket. "No, I just want to know whether I can get a extension based on work..." hands me an "N" ticket. "No, I don't want a ticket I just want to know whether I can get an extension based on work with my Non-O visa?"  His response, "Family - counter L, work - counter N". Very helpful. SO I proceeded to walk to counter "N" and asked one of the officers at the back who seemed important. (She turned out to be the section head). Anyway she asked if a had a WP and teacher licence and then she said that of course I was allowed to do an extension. So the supervisor from earlier did in fact know jack shit about her own department's policies.

 

Anyway, the thing that struck me as being the most odd was that since the "L" section asked for all the same documents as the "N" section, but also required a photo of me at work shows that rather than making it easier (or even just the same) for people with Thai families, they ask for more work documents than the people doing work extensions.

 

Rant over. 

 

 

[Raymonddiaz]

Welcome to LOS man. A country full of adventures where everyone is king is his own office ( desk).

[chuang]

My a long read. 

[Dan5]

Well I've been going to Chaeng Wattana for retirement extensions for many years and never had a problem. But it sounds like what you are trying to do is very unusual,  though I couldn't even follow most of it. That might be your problem. Usually non-O extensions are very straight forward in Bangkok.

[SABloke]

Just now, Dan5 said:

Well I've been going to Chaeng Wattana for retirement extensions for many years and never had a problem. But it sounds like what you are trying to do is very unusual,  though I couldn't even follow most of it. That might be your problem. Usually non-O extensions are very straight forward in Bangkok.

I was doing a year extension based on having a Thai family and a minimum income of 400 000 Baht per year. Nothing unusual about it - I had all the documents I was told by them to bring, but they suddenly asked for additional documents. 

[Kabula]

I think for those of who have been here for many years have at least once had similar frustrations.

 

Best to smile, go with the flow, speak a little Thai and be patient.

 

When it gets overwhelming there is always tomorrow.

 

 If that doesn't work hire a recommended, competent, Thai, English speaking Immigration extension Expediter.

 

In most cases it generally works out.

[Dan5]

14 minutes ago, Kabula said:

I think for those of who have been here for many years have at least once had similar frustrations.

 

Best to smile, go with the flow, speak a little Thai and be patient.

 

When it gets overwhelming there is always tomorrow.

 

 If that doesn't work hire a recommended, competent, Thai, English speaking Immigration extension Expediter.

 

In most cases it generally works out.

Yes. I agree. But most likely the reason he is having the problems is that this is not standard or common. A retirement of marriage is  very common, with a standard procedure they do many times every day. In this case I'd guess the IO is not even sure what is needed.

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Kabula said:

 If that doesn't work hire a recommended, competent, Thai, English speaking Immigration extension Expediter.

I have a strong suspicion that the supervisor he and his wife ran into was angling to be the immigration extension expediter. I am glad they were able to find a solution that did not involve rewarding the supervisor for her bad behavior.

[YetAnother]

25 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I have a strong suspicion that the supervisor he and his wife ran into was angling to be the immigration extension expediter. I am glad they were able to find a solution that did not involve rewarding the supervisor for her bad behavior.

pity if you are right; those 10 year visas start to look better as dont have to deal with the witless immigration folks

Edited August 4, 2017 by YetAnother

[Crossy]

These things can be incredibly fraught, but the expedition doesn't have to be $$$.

 

A couple of years back doing my work extension at CW there was a minor paperwork issue meaning we had to return next day.

 

Our company lady noted that the IO was having issues finding a pen that worked (and, of course putting the dead ones back in the pen-pot).

 

Next day, with new paperwork in hand we went to immigration via the 7-eleven where our lady bought a pack of 5 disposable pens. These were presented to the IO (same guy) when our number was called. I admit to thinking he would be insulted, exactly the opposite, he was genuinely pleased that someone had noticed the issue and had taken the trouble to help.

 

The little things do indeed matter, crazy eh?

 

 

 

[TerryLH]

"I was doing a year extension based on having a Thai family and a minimum income of 400 000 Baht per year. Nothing unusual about it - I had all the documents I was told by them to bring, but they suddenly asked for additional documents." 

 

Isn't it actually 40K a month?  It's only 400K if you use money in the bank.

 

If you do have the 400K in the bank, or an income of 40K a month from another source, you're better off not telling them you work.  Just extend for reason of marriage.  Much less paperwork.

[SABloke]

53 minutes ago, TerryLH said:

"I was doing a year extension based on having a Thai family and a minimum income of 400 000 Baht per year. Nothing unusual about it - I had all the documents I was told by them to bring, but they suddenly asked for additional documents." 

 

Isn't it actually 40K a month?  It's only 400K if you use money in the bank.

 

If you do have the 400K in the bank, or an income of 40K a month from another source, you're better off not telling them you work.  Just extend for reason of marriage.  Much less paperwork.

I made a typo..should've been 480 000 Baht per year. Anyway, as I explained my main gripe was with the fact that after consulting with the IO at Chaeng Wattana and then collecting all the documents they required, they suddenly added more documents. That's why I point out that I'm just having a rant.

 

I wasted my entire morning and dragged my whole family off in the early hours to get a good queue number, but if I had known they would pull this shit I would've gone straight for the usual work extension that I've been doing for the past decade and been back at work by 10.

[likeke]

I never did read War and Peace, and I will not read it now.

Edited August 5, 2017 by likeke

[YetAnother]

well, immigration workers are RTP; thai police , as can be read here on limitless articles, have few redeeming qualities; certainly arrogance toward farang is not uncommon; quite frankly , i have gotten the feeling in these immigration offices that these IO really do not farang at all and get a special little joy out of jerking their chains

[tonray]

1 minute ago, YetAnother said:

well, immigration workers are RTP; thai police , as can be read here on limitless articles, have few redeeming qualities; certainly arrogance toward farang is not uncommon; quite frankly , i have gotten the feeling in these immigration offices that these IO really do not farang at all and get a special little joy out of jerking their chains

I came back to BKK in April with a new O-A Visa and a relatively new passport. The consulate had instead of placing the Visa near the first few pages stuck the sticker about in the middle of the passport with many blank pages before it. The IO at first could not find the sticker (even though I always book mark it but they ignore that when you hand it to  them). He asked me for my old passport at which point I showed him where the new sticker was. With a puzzled look he asks me "Why did you put it here ?" I answered with an even more puzzled look.....SMH

[JackThompson]

18 hours ago, SABloke said:

I was doing a year extension based on having a Thai family and a minimum income of 400 000 Baht per year. Nothing unusual about it - I had all the documents I was told by them to bring, but they suddenly asked for additional documents. 

If it were me, next time, say nothing about your work.  Just use a stat-doc of income from your embassy.  Maybe need an MFA cert on the signature (not sure CW's policy on 'based on marriage to a Thai' Non-Os).  Immigration don't need to know that you work here for Non-O/marriage applications - keep that in the Labor-dept's court.  Immigration only need to know that you meet the income or savings qualification.

[eddysmit]

SABloke, If I can just put my tuppence worth in with my experience over many years, the only time I have had problems with immigration have always been with female officers, the first time many years ago I arrived early with all paperwork, 'so called ' correct, in a nice neat bundle, she beckoned for me to come before her presence and sit down, when motioned to do so I gently placed my bundle neatly  before her, she made a sort of "huffing" noise then 'swooshed' all the paperwork all over the desk, she picked up the bank letter from the bank for the said amount, holding it between two fingers like it was poisonous, she took a quick look and said,"go get new one for today", the  'so called' law then was it must be less than seven days old, mine was two days old,so, off I went for my couple of hours driving and a two hour wait for the new letter, I have had a few more similar happennings, always female officers, now they are beginning to clamp down there might be more of it, the thing is with the immigration 'Law Book' they have left a get-out for their comrades, at the bottom in the small print is/was written "it will always be up to the local immigration officer how the law should be interpreted".

[overherebc]

5 hours ago, eddysmit said:

SABloke, If I can just put my tuppence worth in with my experience over many years, the only time I have had problems with immigration have always been with female officers, the first time many years ago I arrived early with all paperwork, 'so called ' correct, in a nice neat bundle, she beckoned for me to come before her presence and sit down, when motioned to do so I gently placed my bundle neatly  before her, she made a sort of "huffing" noise then 'swooshed' all the paperwork all over the desk, she picked up the bank letter from the bank for the said amount, holding it between two fingers like it was poisonous, she took a quick look and said,"go get new one for today", the  'so called' law then was it must be less than seven days old, mine was two days old,so, off I went for my couple of hours driving and a two hour wait for the new letter, I have had a few more similar happennings, always female officers, now they are beginning to clamp down there might be more of it, the thing is with the immigration 'Law Book' they have left a get-out for their comrades, at the bottom in the small print is/was written "it will always be up to the local immigration officer how the law should be interpreted".

Had an experience with a female IO once where my wife and self needed to prove income, long time ago. The IO produced a form and my wife filled in the info including monthly income. The IO looked and pushed it back and said with a laugh don't be silly it's monthly salary not yearly. My wife smiled pushed it back and said that is my monthly salary. IO stood up disappeared and someone else came to finish the paperwork.??

[tutsiwarrior]

13 hours ago, overherebc said:

Had an experience with a female IO once where my wife and self needed to prove income, long time ago. The IO produced a form and my wife filled in the info including monthly income. The IO looked and pushed it back and said with a laugh don't be silly it's monthly salary not yearly. My wife smiled pushed it back and said that is my monthly salary. IO stood up disappeared and someone else came to finish the paperwork.??

 

I had the same experience with an extension based on retirement...I presented the embassy income affidavit where I declared my monthly salary and the IO asked my wife if the amount was correct and she confirmed...he then let his breath out slowly and carried on...I was calm and had the illustrating bank statements to hand...

 

he could've stood up and shouted at us to get out of his sight, I suppose...kudos to him for his professionalism...

 

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by tutsiwarrior

[JLCrab]

I am late to this party but it may be that -- aside from the general conditions that apply to all -- the Bangkok Consular folks were not happy to see that the female Thai applicant is a family member of a substantial import-export business in Thailand for which she could readily if not desirably work while in the USA. Maybe export-import?

[impulse]

My sympathies to the OP.

 

This thread reminds me of the guys who come on here, having had a string of one type of experience in their Thailand adventure, and they're dead sure that everyone else has either had the same type of experience, they're lying or exaggerating, or they're doing something idiotic to bring it on themselves.

 

It's that 4th Law of Thermodynamics.  Sometimes, crap happens.  Especially when human interactions are involved.  Just because it hasn't happened to me (yet), doesn't mean it wasn't a valid experience for someone else.  And your mileage may vary depending on a lot of things outside of your control...

 

[Damrongsak]

Circa 38 years ago, I had to get my Thai bride a passport with some slightly sketchy paperwork, so we were walking on eggs.  It came out OK.  Had to talk with some ball-buster Thai cop sort of guy, but I ingratiated myself with my stupid Thai talk.  Fortunately, he was just about like some of the a-holes I had met when I worked with Ministry of Agriculture. Then we had to expedite things to get  stuff done.  Had to pay a guy to put our paperwork on the top of the stack.  When we went back to get it, another guy literally said "That's my job."  Hey, you snooze, you lose.  Not my problem.  It was an education, I assure you. 

 

To be fair, my USA consulate people were  more snotty, especially the native Thai speakers there.  They would tell me I couldn't do something, and I'd ask "why not"? My ace-in-the-hole was that I technically worked for the US government at the time.  555.  They let me use their typewriter and copy machine, as they didn't like handwritten stuff.

 

I wonder now if some of the employees at the embassy weren't some hi-so Thai people's kids, or at least of that ilk.  Being a child of the mid-west of USA, I didn't give a crap. Or maybe it was slinking around Isaan for a couple of years on my own.

[MichelBangkok]

Live in the LOS (sic) for more than 25 years, at the beginning on work, and then on retirement; two years ago my country lost my old passport during the renewal process, so when back with the new passport without any visas, was granted a visitor's visa and had to restart the retirement visa extension from scratch; thanks to the gods I speak fluently (read as well) Thai, so the process was relatively painless although some run around to banks, spouse and others to get all the seemingly never-ending list of required documents; the whole day started at 8:30h AM (first to come in - Nonthaburi Immigration) and ended just prior to closing time... Except for this "experience", usually the yearly visa extension is a breeze, naturally if you come early, before the long Q's start to build up. Nonthaburi is a small office, and the assigned personnel tend to remain on duty many years, so developing some "personal" contacts through small talk has proven to be useful over the years to smooth out potential hurdles...

[anon789561]

Chaeng wattana is hell on earth as far as I'm concerned. If you like to travel about or have the odd weekend away just get non imm multiple so you don't have to put up with that nonsense 

[eddysmit]

20 hours ago, overherebc said:

Had an experience with a female IO once where my wife and self needed to prove income, long time ago. The IO produced a form and my wife filled in the info including monthly income. The IO looked and pushed it back and said with a laugh don't be silly it's monthly salary not yearly. My wife smiled pushed it back and said that is my monthly salary. IO stood up disappeared and someone else came to finish the paperwork.??

I can just imagine her reaction and would loved to have been sitting next to you, (quietly of course), and I think you have hit the nail on the head for one of the main 'problems' when visiting places like immigration and the reason, in my experience anyway, why it is always the females that dig deeper than necessary looking for an 'I' not dotted and a 'T' not crossed, the old "Green Eye", and I must say I have dealt with, or they dealt with me, some excellent male officers and some good female officers, it just might be a case of the time of the (week) Month I go as far as some of the female officers are concerned.

[Thaidream]

When I did my yearly retirement extension at ChaengWattana a few months ago- I noticed that everyone in that section was a female including the superiors. It has been that way for some years now.  Luckily, I have not had any problems as the Retirement extension is pretty straight forward.  I did notice that they appeared to be rather fussy regarding paperwork and pictures for the marriage extension . I have also noticed they are quite curt with their responses when asked a question.

 

The only issue I ever had was at the old Suan Plu Office in Bangkok when doing a marriage extension I was asked to present the original passport I entered Thailand on when I got married. I had already been married 20 plus years and done many extensions and had the Thai marriage certificate and Amphur documentation.. They insisted it was necessary to prove I was in the country at the time of the marriage (Where else would I have been). Luckily, I had saved the old passport and when I produced it the IO was quite surprised.  Then he questioned me on why I had only a 15 day  entry stamp at Don Muang instead of 30. I simply told him that was the law then. He immediately stamped my passport as extension approved .  I have no idea what would have happened had I not been able to find the old 20+ year old passport.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:55 AM, SABloke said:

But then came the straw that broke the camel's back ( a very insignificant straw yet enough to change my attitude to F u supervisor lady).  She said that they needed a photo of me teaching. Give me an effin' break.

In the 21 years I've been in Thailand photographs of me at work have ALWAYS been required for renewals of my work permit.

[SABloke]

Just now, LongTimeLurker said:

In the 21 years I've been in Thailand photographs of me at work have ALWAYS been required for renewals of my work permit.

That's interesting as I've never had to submit photos for a Work Permit. Anyway, it still has nothing to do with the fact that the Immigration Officer did not originally request it and then the suddenly asked for it when I went back with all the other documents (that weren't on the requirements, but she asked me to go get...which I did) to apply for my extension.

Edited August 7, 2017 by SABloke

[DMC1]

That's interesting as I've never had to submit photos for a Work Permit. Anyway, it still has nothing to do with the fact that the Immigration Officer did not originally request it and then the suddenly asked for it when I went back with all the other documents (that weren't on the requirements, but she asked me to go get...which I did) to apply for my extension.

Only for the past two years have I had to submit a photo for WP renewal. This is a photo from the waist upwards. We were led to believe that this was more of a recent security issue as we never had to do this previously.

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

In the 21 years I've been in Thailand photographs of me at work have ALWAYS been required for renewals of my work permit.

I think that was for extension of stay applications at immigration not for your work permit. Never heard of them being needed for a work permit application.