Wife's Thai I.D. wrong name......after 29 years???

[TGIR]

Yesterday we went to the Immigration office for our 12th annual O-Retirement extension.  All the paperwork was prepared and in order, as it has been every year.   Piece of cake......But wait !!!  

 

For the last twenty nine years, my wife has carried around a Thai I.D. card. with the same name. NOW, after 29 freaking years, the officer decided she had the wrong name on her I.D. card so she has to make a three hour one way trip to Bangkok., go to the U.S. Embassy,  go to the Thai Embassy, and God knows where else (I couldn't understand the rest) to fix this egregious error.   I asked her why this had never come up before.   Oh, they always noted it and just let it go she says.  "They know we're married and it's clear on our paperwork that the I.D. card and her passport have different names (one before marriage, one after)".

 

Welcome to Thailand folks.

 

 

[tonray]

Isn't the passport enough, why even present a Thai ID? 

[ubonjoe]

She probably cannot do anything in Bangkok unless that is where here house book registry is for.

She can go to the Amphoe where you are living now to find out what the problem is. She may have to go to the Amphoe where her house book registry is for to get the error corrected.

[TGIR]

1) It isn't an error, it's a petty official being an <deleted>.  If it was an error, why ignore it for 29 years?.

 

2) She and they said Bangkok.....possibly because that's where she got her I.D. card changed.  The process to change it was rather lengthy and involved visits to both the U.S. and Thai Embassy for "permission"....maybe permission to change I.D. registrations of some sort.  Not speaking Thai I missed a bit of it when it got complicated.

 

3) A Thai I.D. card was asked for;  whether that was done in the past I have no idea.  My wife prepares the paperwork.  She's smart enough not to put in anything they don't ask for.

 

 

 

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, TGIR said:

1) It isn't an error, it's a petty official being an <deleted>.  If it was an error, why ignore it for 29 years?.

 

2) She and they said Bangkok.....possibly because that's where she got her I.D. card changed.  The process to change it was rather lengthy and involved visits to both the U.S. and Thai Embassy for "permission"....maybe permission to change I.D. registrations of some sort.  Not speaking Thai I missed a bit of it when it got complicated.

 

3) A Thai I.D. card was asked for;  whether that was done in the past I have no idea.  My wife prepares the paperwork.  She's smart enough not to put in anything they don't ask for.

 

 

 

She is Thai or American?  

[TGIR]

She is Thai, and a naturalized U.S. Citizen

[BEVUP]

3 minutes ago, TGIR said:

She is Thai, and a naturalized U.S. Citizen

Well I would forget what they said & go down to the Amphor in which your wifes Blue Book is registered & just see how you go when asking for a new card due to the error 

[TGIR]

I just checked with her and this will have nothing to do with the blue book.  On her Thai I.D. card her name is N.... P....Duangsawang, her maiden name.  On her U.S. Passport her name is N....P... Che....., her married name. Her blue book remains in her maiden name, at an address where we no longer live, but cannot be changed until we sell that particular property.  That was why the I.D. card became an issue....her blue book didn't match her  passport and they then required her Thai ID to verify she was she.

 

She originally chose this route to avoid problems when purchasing property years ago.   Back then foreign married women weren't  allowed to buy more than one piece of property.   Apparently about 10 years ago that rule was relaxed and is longer a factor. She just told me they wanted her to change last year and she didn't bother to do it because of the hassle;  she does have to have a consultation with both Embassies to get her name changed in their records......since technically, I think, Thailand doesn't allow multiple citizenship.  She always refers to herself in these situations as a "former Thai citizen".

 

We have several arguments many years ago when she went through changing her name after we got married and I kept appealing to her to just change the name everywhere to avoid these kinds of problems.....she was still carrying a Thai passport at the time, not to use, just for a back-up I suppose.   I am reserving my right to say "I told you so" in the interest of my continuing good health.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by TGIR
text correction

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, TGIR said:

I just checked with her and this will have nothing to do with the blue book.  On her Thai I.D. card her name is N.... P....Duangsawang, her maiden name.  On her U.S. Passport her name is N....P... Che....., her married name.  Her blue book remains in her maiden name, which she will also have to change as the property the blue book is 

 

She chose to do this to avoid problems when purchasing property years ago.   Back then foreign married women weren't supposed to be allowed to buy more than one piece of property.   Apparently about 10 years ago that rule was relaxed and is longer a factor. She just told me they wanted her to change last year and she didn't bother to do it because of the hassle;  she does have to have a consultation with both Embassies to get her name changed in their records......since technically, I think, Thailand doesn't allow multiple citizenship.  She always refers to herself in these situations as a "former Thai citizen".

 

We have several arguments many years ago when she went through changing her name after we got married and I kept appealing to her to just change the name everywhere to avoid these kinds of problems.....she was still carrying a Thai passport at the time, not to use, just for a back-up I suppose.   I am reserving my right to say "I told you so" in the interest of my continuing good health.

 

 

I cannot see what the problem with immigration is. It is perfectly legal for her to keep her maiden name after marriage.

She does not need to do anything at the US embassy since her passport is in her married name. There are no Thai embassies here in the country.

All she has to do is go the Amphoe where her house book registry is for and apply for a name change. 

The law on owning property was changed in 1998 or 1999 after the constitution of 1997 went into effect.

[lopburi3]

1.  There is no Thai Embassy in Thailand - suspect you mean MFA which handles passports and such.

2.  There is no requirement that I am aware of to change name on ID card to husband - believe that is a law and nobody can be forced to do so.  Perhaps immigration officer is requiring for your marriage extension only.  If you can use retirement probably a non issue.

3.  ID card name change is done at District Office she is registered at and only requires Thai marriage certificate - suspect your marriage was not in Thailand and never recorded here.  Trip to Bangkok is for that paperwork to record in her district office I believe.

4.  Law on property was they would not register ownership if foreign name but now will with extra paperwork.

 

Edit:  if a foreign marriage it needs to be recorded here now for extensions of stay so this may actually be the issue rather than a name change on ID card - but if name was yours on ID card it would indicate this had been done or a local marriage.

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by lopburi3

[TGIR]

Just now, lopburi3 said:

1.  There is no Thai Embassy in Thailand - suspect you mean MFA which handles passports and such.

2.  There is no requirement that I am aware of to change name on ID card to husband - believe that is a law and nobody can be forced to do so.  Perhaps immigration officer is requiring for your marriage extension only.  If you can use retirement probably a non issue.

3.  ID card name change is done at District Office she is registered at and only requires Thai marriage certificate - suspect your marriage was not in Thailand and never recorded here.  Trip to Bangkok is for that paperwork to record in her district office I believe.

4.  Law on property was they would not register ownership if foreign name but now will with extra paperwork.

We're going around in circles here, first to lopburi3:n-O

 

1.  Yes, you are correct.  Lost in the minutiae.

2.  I don't make the rules.   Immigration wants it changed so change it we will.   We don't have a marriage extension, we have a Non-O Retirement.

3.  Our marriage was in Bangkok, recorded in Bangkok Oct. 8, 1988.  We were also married again six months later in the U.S.A.

4.  As noted in discussion of applicable law as of when we bought our first property here.

 

Now to ubonjoe:  Again, her blue book has her maiden name on it, as does her I.D. Card.   Immigration wants a Thai I.D.  to match her married name on her American Passport.  

 

This has been a lot of fun and helped me resolve discussions that I thought had died years ago.....now I must go stick my head in a bucket of something alcoholic..............................I.D.s?  We don't need no stinking I.D.s !

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, TGIR said:

Now to ubonjoe:  Again, her blue book has her maiden name on it, as does her I.D. Card.   Immigration wants a Thai I.D.  to match her married name on her American Passport.  

They will first change her name on the blue house book and then do the new ID card after she applies for a name change.

[lopburi3]

Quote

3.  Our marriage was in Bangkok, recorded in Bangkok Oct. 8, 1988.  We were also married again six months later in the U.S.A.

Did you get a divorce?  You can not marry in both Thailand and USA - it is one or the other as both are fully legal in both countries.

 

Sorry I did miss the retirement - she should not even be involved in a retirement extension of stay beyond being perhaps a landlord.  

[Evilbaz]

If a retirement extension it has nothing to do with your wife - leave her at home then they have to deal only with you - The Applicant!

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, Evilbaz said:

If a retirement extension it has nothing to do with your wife - leave her at home then they have to deal only with you - The Applicant!

In which case he'd better brace himself for having to surmount formidable hurdles in communicating with them since immigration officers' grasp of the English language tends to be minimal (at best) or completely non-existent (at worst) in my experience. That is one of the reasons why I always get my wife to accompany me to my local office at retirement extension of stay time.

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

In which case he'd better brace himself for having to surmount formidable hurdles in communicating with them since immigration officers' grasp of the English language tends to be minimal (at best) or completely non-existent (at worst) in my experience. That is one of the reasons why I always get my wife to accompany me to my local office at retirement extension of stay time.

Totally not my experience and always do myself - there is actually very little communication required with passing the required documents and waiting for passport stamp.

[OJAS]

4 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Totally not my experience and always do myself - there is actually very little communication required with passing the required documents and waiting for passport stamp.

Admittedly my experience is only based on my dealings with the Rayong office. I was particularly glad that she was with me last year when they asked for a TM30, which she as the relevant housemaster was to complete. The officer was able to explain to her directly and in their common native language what was required - instead of having to use me as an intermediary, with the consequential risk of linguistic misunderstandings being introduced both on the officer's part (in explaining the requirements to me) and mine (in passing these on to my wife).

 

But I would imagine that the officers tend to be rather more fluent in English at the larger offices such as Chaengwattana (which I gather is yours), Jomtien and Chiang Mai.

[lopburi3]

8 hours ago, OJAS said:

Admittedly my experience is only based on my dealings with the Rayong office. I was particularly glad that she was with me last year when they asked for a TM30, which she as the relevant housemaster was to complete. The officer was able to explain to her directly and in their common native language what was required - instead of having to use me as an intermediary, with the consequential risk of linguistic misunderstandings being introduced both on the officer's part (in explaining the requirements to me) and mine (in passing these on to my wife).

 

But I would imagine that the officers tend to be rather more fluent in English at the larger offices such as Chaengwattana (which I gather is yours), Jomtien and Chiang Mai.

Indeed that could have been an issue trying to explain I suspect (from experience).  Luckily we are not asked for extras here in Bangkok

[Pungdo]

My wifes ID card has the wrong spelling of my surname, the correct spelling which shows on her passport is Cade, but the idiots at the Amphur decided they would try to translate a simple 4 lettered English word into Thai and back to English and came up with Khadi, I have always joked that I will never need to get a divorce because I am not married to a woman with the surname Khadi.

[LukKrueng]

Some strange things in the OP's situation...

1. As mentioned in many replies already - extension for retirements has nothing to do with being married, therefore no documents of the wife should be needed for the process - she can be there as a translator and or landlord.

2. Back in 1988, a married woman had to change her name to her husband's by law, not by choice. That law was only recently changed.

3. Back then, AFAIK, Thai women married to non Thais could not buy any property nor hold more than 49% of a business once she married the non Thai. Properties / businesses owned by her prior to marriage were not effected. She could keep them. 

4. Thailand allows double citizenship and that has been so for many years already, so no issue there.

5. I guess the wife is staying in Thailand as a Thai, otherwise she'd have to have a visa or an extension of stay based on something just like you. Being so, she is not "formerly Thai", she is Thai.

6. Even if she has a role in your retirement application being your Thai wife - her US passport has NOTHING to do with any of it and there is no reason for immigration to ask for it nor even to know she has one

[scorecard]

17 hours ago, TGIR said:

1) It isn't an error, it's a petty official being an <deleted>.  If it was an error, why ignore it for 29 years?.

 

2) She and they said Bangkok.....possibly because that's where she got her I.D. card changed.  The process to change it was rather lengthy and involved visits to both the U.S. and Thai Embassy for "permission"....maybe permission to change I.D. registrations of some sort.  Not speaking Thai I missed a bit of it when it got complicated.

 

3) A Thai I.D. card was asked for;  whether that was done in the past I have no idea.  My wife prepares the paperwork.  She's smart enough not to put in anything they don't ask for.

 

 

 

 

Another example, all my Thai family officially have my Western family name.

 

The family name ends with an 's'.

 

We learned a long time ago to double check any documents from gov't. offices, banks etc., to ensure the 's' has been included and many times it wasn't and after showing my xxx passport, wife and sons Thai passport, with the correct spelling, then the officer then corrected the spelling.

 

But on several occasions, including when my son got married and his Thai wife wanted to change her family name to son's family (Western) name the spelling on her ID card and the spelling of son's family name and his new wife's new family name on the actual amphur marriage certificate was wrong. Response, 'never mind', next please. 

 

My son doesn't accept 'never mind' and he had to stand his ground to get it fixed, amongst several comments from the amphur staff that he was very rude, etc.

[TGIR]

17 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Did you get a divorce?  You can not marry in both Thailand and USA - it is one or the other as both are fully legal in both countries.

 

Sorry I did miss the retirement - she should not even be involved in a retirement extension of stay beyond being perhaps a landlord.  

<removed> NO, we did not get a divorce and we are legally married in both Thailand and America.....have been since 1988.   I don't know what you're talking about on the retirement issue.  She is my dependent and therefor has to submit the same paperwork to immigration I do.  She is carrying an American passport and, as I mentioned, considers herself to be An American citizen, and "former" Thai citizen.  Perhaps that's why the big deal with changing her I.D. card.

Edited August 11, 2017 by ubonjoe
Removed a abusive comment

[Tchooptip]

My wife is seven years younger on her Thai id card, she is afraid it could be problematic sometimes. Why nobody knows.

[lopburi3]

You can not get married in more than one country - you claim you got married in both Thailand and USA.  Marriage in either is marriage in the other. 

 

Most Thai would not be in her position as there is no need for it - she is Thai and can have a Thai passport/ID card and home registration and be here on that passport and not have any need to contact immigration.

 

Even using US passport she can extend her stay on basis of being Thai one year at a time.

[TGIR]

11 hours ago, OJAS said:

In which case he'd better brace himself for having to surmount formidable hurdles in communicating with them since immigration officers' grasp of the English language tends to be minimal (at best) or completely non-existent (at worst) in my experience. That is one of the reasons why I always get my wife to accompany me to my local office at retirement extension of stay time.

 

Wrong on all counts.......I don't know why you don't read the entire thread.  OJAS, did you miss the part where she is Thai?, or the part where she fills out the paperwork every year?

 

14 hours ago, Evilbaz said:

If a retirement extension it has nothing to do with your wife - leave her at home then they have to deal only with you - The Applicant!

I'll make sure to tell the immigration officers that next time when I go without her.  It'll be good for a laugh I'm sure.

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, TGIR said:

NO, we did not get a divorce and we are legally married in both Thailand and America.....have been since 1988.   I don't know what you're talking about on the retirement issue.  She is my dependent and therefor has to submit the same paperwork to immigration I do.  She is carrying an American passport and, as I mentioned, considers herself to be An American citizen, and "former" Thai citizen.  Perhaps that's why the big deal with changing her I.D. card.

You did not have to get married again in the states. Normally it is not considered possible to marry the same person twice. 

Why is she not staying here as a Thai by using her Thai passport for entry?

[glegolo]

Like UbonJoe clarifies - This is an american issue NOT an european. Either we marry in Thailand, send translated documents to swedish gouverment and boom we are married in Sweden as well...

OR

we marry in Sweden thereafter we personally have to go to Amphue in Thailand and marry there (register marriage)..

 

Glegolo

Edited August 11, 2017 by glegolo

[TGIR]

After we were Married (in Bangkok, in Thai) our Attorney suggested she file an application for a Fiance Visa to the U.S.  He explained, rightly so, that applying for a Visa as my wife would mean a long wait.  Applying for a Fiance Visa took only two months and she emigrated to the U.S. having 90 days to get married or go home.  It worked perfectly for us and no-one in the U.S. really gives a crap where we were married and whether or not we also got married in Thailand.  She wanted to be a U.S. citizen, so she took her tests, waited the two years to be naturalized and is now officially a real live American.......until we get to immigration where she apparently is still required to submit with her application for extension of my retirement Visa, both her Blue book and her Thai I.D. card.  

 

I'm happy to know many of you are so well versed in Thai law, and available for answers to a lot of questions raised by TV members, but everyone's experience with immigration is different as we all know.  I've related the facts as I know them and it won't do any good for us to keep trying to litigate what's happened in the past, or why we should do this or that.  We follow the rules as instructed by Thai immigration officials.   

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Like UbonJoe clarifies - This is an american issue NOT an european. Either we marry in Thailand, send translated documents to swedish gouverment and boom we are married in Sweden as well.

Not every european country does that. The UK does not. A Thai marriage certificate  is accepted in the US after it is translated.

2 minutes ago, glegolo said:

we marry in Sweden thereafter we personally have to go to Amphue in Thailand and marry there (register marriage)..

You don't get married here again. You register your foreign marriage at an Amphoe and get a Kor Ror 22 to prove it.

[dotpoom]

It happens. According to my wife's passport in the Thai translation she is a man (she's a female in the English translation).