Red-shirt leader questions Army explanation as soldiers mobilise in Lamphun

[Reigntax]

6 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Not sure how true that is, given she was removed as a direct result of anti-government protests, it doesn't get any more democratic than that, it got so bad she was forced to call a snap election ..that was when she lost her grip,

 

The military only took control because Thailand was descending into chaos due to the Shinawatra family royally shitting the democratic bed.

 

You can read all about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–2014_Thai_political_crisis

 

The military started planning the downfall of the YS government from the moment they were elected. Just as they have done to each elected government in the last 50 years and will continue to do so with the next.

 

The military and both sides of politics are all as corrupt as each other. The country is based on a foundation of corruption and self benefit. Elections/democracy/coups are not for the benefit of moving the country forward. They determine only that those in control get the opportunity to spread a larger portion of the countries wealth amongst their family and those who support them.

 

There is only one important thing. Money!!

[gummy]

2 hours ago, Reigntax said:

 

I believe you have just confirmed my previous point.

 

An elected PM and ministers were removed by the Constitutional Court for the transfer of a senior public servant and replaced by a military appointee.

 

The justification, that the Constitution Court were involved and made a decision to overide the foundation  of their own existence and that which they were duty bound to uphold, then appointing a military general with a record of previous human rights abuses against supporters of democracy is at the very least a hypocritical assessment to justify events that were long in the planning.

 

"The military will always step in when everything goes side ways in society and the civil controls get washed away,

Not just in Thailand but in every functioning country on the planet,

Martial law is the last fail safe before a society descends into absolute chaos"

 

Really? I thought in any civil8sed country the military were under control of the elected representatives.

 

I cant remember in any civilised country the military deciding they were in control even in times of war. The military have neither the intelligence nor the training to effectively make decisions to benefit a country. Surely more than 70 years of Thai military interference confirms such action.

 

Dont worry too much if you missed the history. It will repeat itself many times in the next decade and somewhat coincidentally coincide with a non military aligned political party being elected. It is actually funny to watch because you can see it evolving but there a still those who have no idea, support the false basis of and parrot the same rhetoric as if its true.

All change after October hopefully

[metisdead]

A post containing content from an unattributed source has been removed as being in violation of fair use policy.  The reply was removed as well. 

[Ricardo]

5 hours ago, Reigntax said:

 

But democracy certainly was and by all accounts she was the last representative of a democratic system.

"by all accounts"

 

But wasn't she replaced, as caretaker-PM, by Niwattharrong Boonsongpaisan, who was a DPM and Commerce Minister in PTP's caretaker government, and who was then acting caretaker-PM from 7th May to 22nd May, when the coup took place ?

 

Was he not also a representative of her previously-elected party & now-caretaker government ?  He was previously a Deputy Prime Minister for heavens' sake, surely he too was democratically placed there ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niwatthamrong_Boonsongpaisan

Edited August 19, 2017 by Ricardo

[JAG]

storm troopers = starwars  ? dude read a book now and then . storm troopers were part of the German army , there sole purpose was to put down insurrection , ask the jews they were rounded up and sent to death camps  or the poles that were lined up  and slaughtered . kieran you have showed every one on tv how ill informed you truly are  , i wish you well in the fairy land your mind has you living in ,,,,the knife cuts both ways ,,,,

At the risk of being pedantic, the first " stormtroopers" were formed in the German Army in early 1918 ( First World War); small lightly equipped groups with light automatic weapons and grenades. It was an attempt (fairly successful) to break the deadlock of trench warfare.
The title was subsequently adopted/applied to members of the right wing militias of the "Freikorps" and the Nazi "SA". The putting down of insurrection and murder of Poles and Jews was carried out by other groups with different names.
Whilst the UDD has violent characters associated with it, it is far from being the universally violent organisation that the name implies. To label them as "stormtroopers" is hyperbolic.
Perhaps quite a number of people in this conversation have got hold of the wrong end of various sticks?
?

[baboon]

32 minutes ago, JAG said:

At the risk of being pedantic, the first " stormtroopers" were formed in the German Army in early 1918 ( First World War); small lightly equipped groups with light automatic weapons and grenades. It was an attempt (fairly successful) to break the deadlock of trench warfare.
The title was subsequently adopted/applied to members of the right wing militias of the "Freikorps" and the Nazi "SA". The putting down of insurrection and murder of Poles and Jews was carried out by other groups with different names.
Whilst the UDD has violent characters associated with it, it is far from being the universally violent organisation that the name implies. To label them as "stormtroopers" is hyperbolic.
Perhaps quite a number of people in this conversation have got hold of the wrong end of various sticks?
?

Gradually turning up the heat. Soon it will be UDD organised death squads and atrocities not seen since Pol Pot's Cambodia...

[JAG]

Gradually turning up the heat. Soon it will be UDD organised death squads and atrocities not seen since Pol Pot's Cambodia...

Oh we had that way back in 2014, or maybe before...
I remember the redshirts pinched a tent the army had put up to snooze under and some enthusiast for the slap of firm government was on here claiming that they had all the hallmarks of The Khmer Rouge!
[emoji3]

[Kieran00001]

20 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

 

Any further schooling on the rules of basic English punctuation will require payment in advance.

 

Clearly you need lessons on the function of apologies.

[Kieran00001]

20 hours ago, mikiea said:

storm troopers = starwars  ? dude read a book now and then . storm troopers were part of the German army , there sole purpose was to put down insurrection , ask the jews they were rounded up and sent to death camps  or the poles that were lined up  and slaughtered . kieran you have showed every one on tv how ill informed you truly are  , i wish you well in the fairy land your mind has you living in ,,,,the knife cuts both ways ,,,,

 

There was no "stormtrooper" in Nazi Germany, although there are non German speakers who have erroneously translated Sturmmann and Stoßtruppen mixed together into stormtrooper, which of course actually mean storm man and shock troops.  Anyway, to refer the UDD as such is completely ridiculous, they are a political pressure group who have performed various functions from leafleting to as an acting militia demanding democracy, whereas the Nazi soldiers that they have here been compared to were a specialist regiment trained in trench warfare tactics, obviously completely incomparable.

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

There was no "stormtrooper" in Nazi Germany, although there are non German speakers who have erroneously translated Sturmmann and Stoßtruppen mixed together into stormtrooper, which of course actually mean storm man and shock troops.  Anyway, to refer the UDD as such is completely ridiculous, they are a political pressure group who have performed various functions from leafleting to as an acting militia demanding democracy, whereas the Nazi soldiers that they have here been compared to were a specialist regiment trained in trench warfare tactics, obviously completely incomparable.

Remarkably similar to the wikipedia entry for "stormtrooper". Let us know when you learn something else, like who funds UDD.

[Kieran00001]

6 hours ago, baboon said:

Gradually turning up the heat. Soon it will be UDD organised death squads and atrocities not seen since Pol Pot's Cambodia...

 

Yes, hillarious, isn't it?  And the very same fools comparing them also turn a blind eye to the military being ordered to shoot to kill protesters, highly ironic folk.

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

Remarkably similar to the wikipedia entry for "stormtrooper". Let us know when you learn something else, like who funds UDD.

 

They would be a strange political pressure group if they were not funded by a political party!  

[halloween]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

They would be a strange political pressure group if they were not funded by a political party!  

You're getting there. Now who owns PTP?

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

You're getting there. Now who owns PTP?

 

Does this have something to do with comparing their pressure group to an elite military regiment?

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Does this have something to do with comparing their pressure group to an elite military regiment?

It had to do with very different views of what the UDD are. Yours seems to be straight from the little red handbook or Peace TV, but for a more accurate assessment see post #51.

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, halloween said:

It had to do with very different views of what the UDD are. Yours seems to be straight from the little red handbook or Peace TV, but for a more accurate assessment see post #51.

 

I read the international press rather than go by just anything the 100% censored local press tell you, I presume you have been listening to the latter.

 

[Ricardo]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Yes, hillarious, isn't it?  And the very same fools comparing them also turn a blind eye to the military being ordered to shoot to kill protesters, highly ironic folk.

 

Are you referring to the now-discredited doctored-tape of then-PM Abhisit ?

 

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

They would be a strange political pressure group if they were not funded by a political party!  

 

So in your view, the UDD aren't the grassroots populist movement they always claimed to be, but are in fact funded by PTP ?

[halloween]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I read the international press rather than go by just anything the 100% censored local press tell you, I presume you have been listening to the latter.

 

Absolutely, but I'm not sure how they edit video clips to make UDD "leaders" spew hate speech about their fellow citizens, in particular those 'elite' who happened to live in Bangkok. It was seen quite regularly in 2010, but I assume you weren't here then.

[wakeupplease]

13 hours ago, gummy said:

All change after October hopefully

Wishful thinking as there will be another engineered and another year of ? so now 2020 maybe

[robblok]

14 hours ago, baboon said:

Gradually turning up the heat. Soon it will be UDD organised death squads and atrocities not seen since Pol Pot's Cambodia...

Nah... they just  drive up with two pickups to a anti goverment protest site, fire automatic weapons on the group lob a few grenades in the crowd. These protesters were far from BKK in Trad, not doing harm to anyone not bothering anyone there but they were willfully sought out and attacked. A few kids died in the protests and on stage the people were cheering about the events (they did not know about the dead kids yet but were perfectly Ok with the others being dead). Only Tida who had half a brain saw that this was  a PR disaster and made sure the guy was led of the stage, better to keep these feeling hidden else people might think that the UDD is indeed a real dangerous organisation.

 

So if anything they were terrorists and kid killers., but your right... not the scale of Pol Pot, but also not the kind of people I like to see in BKK stirring up trouble. The army might be holding a training session.. or they might be showing force to persuade people not to come. Either way if it keeps trouble and violence away I am ok with it. I think enough blood has been spilled and if they really want to spill blood let them fight the army straight on instead of hiding between civilians making sure innocents are killed when they do attack. 

[baboon]

40 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nah... they just  drive up with two pickups to a anti goverment protest site, fire automatic weapons on the group lob a few grenades in the crowd. These protesters were far from BKK in Trad, not doing harm to anyone not bothering anyone there but they were willfully sought out and attacked. A few kids died in the protests and on stage the people were cheering about the events (they did not know about the dead kids yet but were perfectly Ok with the others being dead). Only Tida who had half a brain saw that this was  a PR disaster and made sure the guy was led of the stage, better to keep these feeling hidden else people might think that the UDD is indeed a real dangerous organisation.

 

So if anything they were terrorists and kid killers., but your right... not the scale of Pol Pot, but also not the kind of people I like to see in BKK stirring up trouble. The army might be holding a training session.. or they might be showing force to persuade people not to come. Either way if it keeps trouble and violence away I am ok with it. I think enough blood has been spilled and if they really want to spill blood let them fight the army straight on instead of hiding between civilians making sure innocents are killed when they do attack. 

Just like I said.

How many children were confirmed murdered by them?

[robblok]

9 hours ago, baboon said:

Just like I said.

How many children were confirmed murdered by them?

2 there and 2 at an other event, In my book that is 4 too many. But you keep on defending them... acting like its not so bad. These guys are violent wanted a violent uprising. I am sure you seen the video links on you-tube posted here a few times how their leaders were telling them to burn Bangkok.. to drive over people.. and how they would take all responsibilities. If you got leaders like that promoting violence like that how can the organisation be anything else then violent. 

 

I have nothing against peaceful protests, but these guys are the guys that turn peaceful protests in to violent hateful meetings. I can understand the army not wanting violence and keeping tabs on the ones that incite violence. Making sure that there are no paid for protesters coming in organised tours. (those are the kind that are easily incited to violence the followers / sheep) People coming by their own accord are more free thinking not under control of leaders who paid for their trip and take care of their food and such. 

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

2 there and 2 at an other event, In my book that is 4 too many. But you keep on defending them... acting like its not so bad. These guys are violent wanted a violent uprising. I am sure you seen the video links on you-tube posted here a few times how their leaders were telling them to burn Bangkok.. to drive over people.. and how they would take all responsibilities. If you got leaders like that promoting violence like that how can the organisation be anything else then violent. 

 

I have nothing against peaceful protests, but these guys are the guys that turn peaceful protests in to violent hateful meetings. I can understand the army not wanting violence and keeping tabs on the ones that incite violence. Making sure that there are no paid for protesters coming in organised tours. (those are the kind that are easily incited to violence the followers / sheep) People coming by their own accord are more free thinking not under control of leaders who paid for their trip and take care of their food and such. 

Specifically targeted? Any condemnation by the government / leadership?

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, baboon said:

Specifically targeted? Any condemnation by the government / leadership?

Specifically targeted ? I am thinking your talking about my previous post ? not the one your quoting . Otherwise I need caffeine and lots of it.  

 

Specifically targeted.. yea... I mean all the trouble was in BKK and then you have a protest quite far away in an other province. I would say that is specifically targeting a group of people minding their own business far from all the confrontations.

 

Tida only condemned it after all the cheering... You would probably say it was from the goodness from her heart.. id say it a reaction to bad PR. If she was so concerned she would have at least made sure that her leaders were of a better kind.. not the violent preaching kind they are. 

 

YL condemned it, but what could she do not condemn it and look like a fool. Just because someone says something in public does not mean they mean it baboon. In YL her case I believe it might well be genuine.. Tida.. not so much. But don't forget who finances the UDD.  

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Specifically targeted ? I am thinking your talking about my previous post ? not the one your quoting . Otherwise I need caffeine and lots of it.  

 

Specifically targeted.. yea... I mean all the trouble was in BKK and then you have a protest quite far away in an other province. I would say that is specifically targeting a group of people minding their own business far from all the confrontations.

 

Tida only condemned it after all the cheering... You would probably say it was from the goodness from her heart.. id say it a reaction to bad PR. If she was so concerned she would have at least made sure that her leaders were of a better kind.. not the violent preaching kind they are. 

 

YL condemned it, but what could she do not condemn it and look like a fool. Just because someone says something in public does not mean they mean it baboon. In YL her case I believe it might well be genuine.. Tida.. not so much. But don't forget who finances the UDD.  

Aye, planting bombs is a disgusting thing to do. Just had a poke about online but couldn't seem to find a good deal of objective material than this:

https://www.hrw.org/report/2011/05/03/descent-chaos/thailands-2010-red-shirt-protests-and-government-crackdown

Bombing and looting is a terrible thing, but should serve as a reminder to governments everywhere the inherent danger of not addressing the ills of society to the point where swathes of the population resort to such methods: When you've got nothing you've got nothing to lose and all that...

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, baboon said:

Aye, planting bombs is a disgusting thing to do. Just had a poke about online but couldn't seem to find a good deal of objective material than this:

https://www.hrw.org/report/2011/05/03/descent-chaos/thailands-2010-red-shirt-protests-and-government-crackdown

Bombing and looting is a terrible thing, but should serve as a reminder to governments everywhere the inherent danger of not addressing the ills of society to the point where swathes of the population resort to such methods: When you've got nothing you've got nothing to lose and all that...

That link seems to be quite objective, shows faults at both sides.

 

I would say that the people in the south (rubber farmers) are every bit as poor as those in the north and still they never went as far as the UDD / redshirts. So just blaming it on poverty is not 100% correct. It depends on the leaders and as you read in that article they were inciting their people. 

 

I really don't want anymore bloodshed, so I really feel the army is taking the right steps to prevent a mass gathering of supporters. Because if they put a few people in there that incite violence .. maybe a few people with weapons and you got a lot of casualties. 

[Kieran00001]

On 20/08/2017 at 3:19 PM, Ricardo said:

 

Are you referring to the now-discredited doctored-tape of then-PM Abhisit ?

 

 

So in your view, the UDD aren't the grassroots populist movement they always claimed to be, but are in fact funded by PTP ?

 

Someone gave the order for the military to fire on crowds of protesters, on journalists and even on medics, that is what I am referring to, whoever it was who gave that order was worse than the UDD have ever been yet the simple sheeple continue to bleat about the UDD.

 

The UDD are grass roots in membership but admittedly have received funding from Thaksin, what ever you think could be contradictory about those two facts is beyond me.

[Kieran00001]

On 20/08/2017 at 6:24 PM, halloween said:

Absolutely, but I'm not sure how they edit video clips to make UDD "leaders" spew hate speech about their fellow citizens, in particular those 'elite' who happened to live in Bangkok. It was seen quite regularly in 2010, but I assume you weren't here then.

 

I was here, but unlike you I am more concerned with preventing further immoral actions than preventing free speech.

[Ricardo]

10 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

The UDD are grass roots in membership but admittedly have received funding from Thaksin, what ever you think could be contradictory about those two facts is beyond me.

 

I respect your courage, actually stating that Thaksin has funded the UDD, who were involved in the 2009 attack on the then-PM's car, and also led the 3-month armed-occupation of part of Bangkok, in which 90+ people were killed and many more injured.

 

I myself live here and so wouldn't make that claim (even online), given the draconian libel-laws here, and whatever I might privately think.

[Kieran00001]

53 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

I respect your courage, actually stating that Thaksin has funded the UDD, who were involved in the 2009 attack on the then-PM's car, and also led the 3-month armed-occupation of part of Bangkok, in which 90+ people were killed and many more injured.

 

I myself live here and so wouldn't make that claim (even online), given the draconian libel-laws here, and whatever I might privately think.

 

It would be a little hard for them to win a case of defamation, if they even wanted to, seeing as their leader, Jaran Dithapicha, stated that they received funding from Thaksin on the stage at a rally in 2010.  Who funds the yellows?

 

The reds were murdered first, by the way, it was a yellow who killed the first person by ramming their car into the protesters, followed by the army killing many more mostly unarmed protesters but also journalists and medics, but of course it is all the Reds fault for protesting to ask for an election and of course not at all the fault of the murderous opposition who denied the electorate democracy due to the fact that they could never win an election.