Van ploughs through crowd in Barcelona, killing about 12

[Kevbo]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

sorry but  where have you been, at least 90% of all terror attacks in Europe have been carried out by people "known to the authorities"

 

The problem is - what defines the point of intervention, well with EU human rights involved  - a person would pretty much need to have a bomb strapped to themselves and you would still need to prove intent and that they weren't out for a pleasant stroll

 

Like I said in my post above, what identifies the threat needs to change, we have muslim clerics preaching that western values are destroying islam - what do they possibly hope to achieve by this, there are only three options that I see

 

- people that support it act on it with a terrorist event

- stop preaching this divisive nonsense and integrate properly into the society 

- the authorities need new legislation and powers to step in and deal with it before it leads to a terrorist event

 

what currently hampers the UK from doing anything ....................... EU human rights laws 

 

I am all for human rights but those propagating hate and division need to be dealt with, this is the age we are now in, the happy happy all together thing is not working any more

 

Time for change and new laws to deal with these people and redefine what needs to be dealt with

Quite agree, multiculturalism is a grotesque social experiment that has failed spectacularly and with dire consequences....

[Orton Rd]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

<deleted> try and lift your thinking above far right PC clap trap

Are you claiming this was not an Islamic attack? it has nothing to do with the left and right in the west, everything to do with a 7th century religion made up by a former terrorist who said he had been made victorious by terror, his followers did this.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Orton Rd

[simple1]

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

Thank you Merkel!

And you (deleted) will probably be reelected instead of paying for your crime and going to prison for betrayal of Europe

 

You are also guilty for the hate of the people that hits innocent and peaceful  refugees because you let the scum in

Exactly what is the factual link with Merkel and the OP attack? 

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Is it just me or are these sort of attacks particularly cowardly? Driving a vehicle into pedestrians! Nor exactly Saladin is it? Why are these beared wonders such softies? I don't think they have the courage to directly attack Western men. In future, I will just laugh at them.

 

Indeed Grousey, very cowardly to attack people like this. But this is the new tactic. Become more difficult to plant bombs and acquire firearms in most Western countries than before. And operatives doing that need some training. But driving a vehicle, or stabbing random passers by, can be done easily be any nutter they can indoctrinate.

This also has the affect of putting suspicion on all Muslims, as potential vehicle or bladed weapon attackers which it turn heightens the mutual distrust and stirs up hatred. Win win for the ISIL scum.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

21 minutes ago, simple1 said:

<deleted> try and lift your thinking above far right PC clap trap

 

So seeing as ISIL have already claimed this attack and the two caught are North African Muslims, what do you think the motivation behind this appalling terror attack was?

 

Please enlighten us? 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

Are you claiming this was not an Islamic attack? it has nothing to do with the left and right in the west, everything to do with a 7th century religion made up by a former terrorist who said he had been made victorious by terror, his followers did this.

Blah, blah. Highly likely the terror cells in Spain are connected to ISIS, an ultra conservatist Salafi sect whose leaders follow the doctrine in "Management of Savagery".  "Management of Savagery" articulates the political ideology on why they utilise very brutal violence against both non Muslim and Muslim, in the West and elsewhere. 

 

[simple1]

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So seeing as ISIL have already claimed this attack and the two caught are North African Muslims, what do you think the motivation behind this appalling terror attack was?

 

Please enlighten us? 

Seems to me Daesh claim every attack, but assuming Daesh ideology is the motivation, if you read "Management of Savagery" it will answer the political questions. The other side of the coin is the religious nonsense of the Sunni version (IMO all versions are nonsense) of the Apocalypse which Daesh claim to believe.

[Tom Cahill]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Blah, blah. Highly likely the terror cells in Spain are connected to ISIS, an ultra conservatist Salafi sect whose leaders follow the doctrine in "Management of Savagery".  "Management of Savagery" articulates the political ideology on why they utilise very brutal violence against both non Muslim and Muslim, in the West and elsewhere. 

 

Correct,  this is either a direct or proxy Israeli Secret Intelligence Service operation.  Tiring retardery abound.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, simple1 said:

Seems to me Daesh claim every attack, but assuming Daesh ideology is the motivation, if you read "Management of Savagery" it will answer the political questions. The other side of the coin is the religious nonsense of the Sunni version (IMO all versions are nonsense) of the Apocalypse which Daesh claim to believe.

 

And that is why this ideology is just as evil as National Socialism and Stalinism and like those should be eradicated.

[FreddieRoyle]

I'm reading the terrorists were wearing suicide belts - very confusing lack of information from authorities. Just how many terrorist attacks are ongoing in Spain?

[tezzainthailand]

6 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Western values are under attack everywhere, and not just by the Muslims. Those who defend those values are labeled fascists, nazis, and racist.  One group hates western values because they are intolerant, the other group because they say those values are intolerant, arrogant, elitist. What is to be done for those in the middle that say western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and we should embrace what has made us great. Freedom of speech, privacy, property rights, rule of law, morality, and a fair bit of caution. The way is not back to the stone age, nor is it to abandon all wisdom and tradition. Everyone is so angry they cannot see we should celebrate that things have never been better for quality of life. Except for for all the protesting and violence demanding change.

Can you define Western values?  Are these the same values in America that gives the right for any nutter to take up arms and shoot whoever is in  their way.  Thirteen dead in Barcelona,  that many Americans will be shot to death in the next 24-48 hours but you won't hear much about that unless the perpetrators are all Muslim.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.  

[simple1]

22 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And that is why this ideology is just as evil as National Socialism and Stalinism and like those should be eradicated.

Correct, at least Daesh have little access to Nation State facilities. Unfortunately a number of Western security leaders have indicated it's going to be a long ideological battle with Islamist extremism before the war is won. Currently some estimates are one hundred years or more.

Edited August 18, 2017 by simple1

[zydeco]

49 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

But this is the new tactic. Become more difficult to plant bombs and acquire firearms in most Western countries than before. And operatives doing that need some training. But driving a vehicle, or stabbing random passers by, can be done easily be any nutter they can indoctrinate.

Just wait until they start derailing several high speed trains. That'll bring moving goods and people to a complete stop.  And how are you going to detect what goes on with every meter of railroad track. More vulnerable than these, what shall we call them, not drive-bys but drive-ins.

[tezzainthailand]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

Crazy muslim terrorists. Get rid of them and the world will be alot safer.

Get rid of angry men fullstop!  Whether they are North Korean dictators, egomanical American Presidents,  frustrated directionless Middle Eastern males, frustrated directionless American white supremacists, they are all useless.  The only people who are worse are old filthy rich males who profit off the world's misery.  Narrow that gap between the richest and the poorest and the world might have some chance of settling down a little.  As Bob Marley once sang, 'a hungry man is an angry man'.

[Ace of Pop]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I dispute whether his "rivers of blood" prophecy has been realised. The nearest might have been Toxteth and Brixton in the 1980s but I don't believe he meant the horrors of international Islamist terrorism.

Apologists never do accept anything other than its your fault.

[elliss]

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

Yet another horrendous terror attack in the EU, condolences for the dead & injured. An attack in a Spanish tourist area was forecast by a number of Western security agencies and highly likely will not be the last.

 

 

      Sadly ,  terrorist murders are now expected in Europe .  We are  paying the penalty ,  for our kindness/weakness.

[roobaa01]

condolence to the victims and the families. immdiately after the first attack a second one followed at a different location, hence everything planned. the root of the problem islam.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Naam]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

4 hours ago, sweatalot said:

Thank you Merkel!

And you (deleted) will probably be reelected instead of paying for your crime and going to prison for betrayal of Europe

 

You are also guilty for the hate of the people that hits innocent and peaceful  refugees because you let the scum in

Exactly what is the factual link with Merkel and the OP attack?

Merkel, being the Spanish prime minister, is directly responsible that a French citizen committed a violent crime in Spain. as simple as that.

[canuckamuck]

49 minutes ago, tezzainthailand said:

Can you define Western values?  Are these the same values in America that gives the right for any nutter to take up arms and shoot whoever is in  their way.  Thirteen dead in Barcelona,  that many Americans will be shot to death in the next 24-48 hours but you won't hear much about that unless the perpetrators are all Muslim.

There is a difference between laws and values.

The values being abandoned are charity, empathy, obligation to community, privacy, the right to an opinion, the right to succeed and profit, obligation to pull your own weight, wisdom of elders, respecting your neighbor, and whatever else is conducive to harmony and communication. And overall the value and sanctity of family, and the state remaining the tool of the citizenry.

[balo]

RIP to all the victims. 

 

Unfortunately nothing will happen , rinse and repeat. 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by balo

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, tezzainthailand said:

Get rid of angry men fullstop!  Whether they are North Korean dictators, egomanical American Presidents,  frustrated directionless Middle Eastern males, frustrated directionless American white supremacists, they are all useless.  The only people who are worse are old filthy rich males who profit off the world's misery.  Narrow that gap between the richest and the poorest and the world might have some chance of settling down a little.  As Bob Marley once sang, 'a hungry man is an angry man'.

That's a bit OTT Tez.... if we get rid of all bob marlys hungry men, because hungry men are angry men, then who's gunna mow my lawn.

 

bugger me... that'll make me angry!

 

.... oops.... that's me then, too.... let's just stick to the terrorists for the mo

[Prbkk]

5 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

I can't believe it doesn't happen more often !! Such an easy method of attack...

I think its starting to have the desired effect too... I am certainly more conscious of my surroundings these days, careful about where I sit, study escape routes etc... 

Its not going away, so we need to adapt or drop to their level !! Scary world...

This was an easy, very soft target. Las Ramblas is absolutely packed with tourists at most times of the year, and especially now at the peak of the season....reflected in the fact that citizens of 24 countries are among the injured.

There is little visible security in most parts of Spain. You don't see it on the metro or in the streets the way it is so obvious in Belgium and France ( and more recently in the U.K.)

Even after the Atocha bombings in Madrid ( by far the deadliest terror attack in Europe), security was still low-key.

 

[observer90210]

8 hours ago, smedly said:

sorry but  where have you been, at least 90% of all terror attacks in Europe have been carried out by people "known to the authorities"

 

The problem is - what defines the point of intervention, well with EU human rights involved  - a person would pretty much need to have a bomb strapped to themselves and you would still need to prove intent and that they weren't out for a pleasant stroll

 

Like I said in my post above, what identifies the threat needs to change, we have muslim clerics preaching that western values are destroying islam - what do they possibly hope to achieve by this, there are only three options that I see

 

- people that support it act on it with a terrorist event

- stop preaching this divisive nonsense and integrate properly into the society 

- the authorities need new legislation and powers to step in and deal with it before it leads to a terrorist event

 

what currently hampers the UK from doing anything ....................... EU human rights laws 

 

I am all for human rights but those propagating hate and division need to be dealt with, this is the age we are now in, the happy happy all together thing is not working any more

 

Time for change and new laws to deal with these people and redefine what needs to be dealt with

Well if you have access to the top secret files of european services, I cannot debate on that.

 

With your permission, I prefer a more moderate and pragmatic stance on this issue, rather then to bluntly take it into some muslim cleric bashing.

 

Not arguing that all are not known by national intelligence agencies, as you claim.

 

But I get your point directed against the muslim clerics who preach hate, but the non muslim europeans who joined the ISIS war or terrorist activites had never attended preachings of muslim clerics before and were unknown by national intelligence agencies.

 

In fact YouTube gives out much more on the background and the motivations of terrorists, unfortunately once it is too late, in place of the files of any national intelligence agency.

 

[observer90210]

The rather tragically ironic part of this attack is that the Spaniards, until last week were ranting against tourists, with graffiti and attacks against tourists....

 

It was mostly the tourists from the UK who were under the limelight, the fire and hate from the Spanish extremists.

 

I was in the Alicante area till last week, and noticed an anti UK uprising against  british tourists, fuelled by local Spanish. Obviously, those who were just drinking in tourist bars, watching sportsTv would not have noticed, but those who mix a bit more deep with the locals, know what I am talking about.

 

As usual, on the aftermath of terror attacks, tourists will flee [Spain], and the spanish extremists ranting against tourism (and the revenue it generates), will have full leisure to clean up the mess inside their great homeland!....Stupidity has no limit, no nationality, no religion, skin colour or ideology.....

 

Studipity is something plainly universal..

 

RIP to the innocent people murdered in the Barca attack.

Edited August 18, 2017 by observer90210

[MaksimMislavsky]

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Western values are under attack everywhere, and not just by the Muslims

So-called Western ("Christian/Roman/Imperial/Democratic") values appear to be fundamentally hypocritical in many respects, moreover, they are being brutally (and highly selectively for mostly commercial reasons), blatantly enforced by violent and dishonest means in broad daylight everywhere including fairly well-balanced societies where they neither work nor are welcome ("crusader we-know-better-what-is-good-for-you attitude"). This seems to be in the root of the evil. And it is very difficult to rectify.

(I'm no Muslim, just an observation)

[Orton Rd]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Blah, blah. Highly likely the terror cells in Spain are connected to ISIS, an ultra conservatist Salafi sect whose leaders follow the doctrine in "Management of Savagery".  "Management of Savagery" articulates the political ideology on why they utilise very brutal violence against both non Muslim and Muslim, in the West and elsewhere. 

 

Highly likely they are Muslims who follow the Quran to the letter, we are just lucky more do not, even if they have sympathy with those that do. Giving them quaint little names to try and distance them from the source for their motivation does not work. They are motivated by the Quran and the life of the Prophet.

[tezzainthailand]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

      Sadly ,  terrorist murders are now expected in Europe .  We are  paying the penalty ,  for our kindness/weakness.

Invading a country (Iraq), unsettling it's population, plundering its resources, creating political instability, creating a flow of refugees, sowing the seeds of terrorism (Abu Grahib, etc.) .  You call that kindness?  Weakness, definitely.

 

[tezzainthailand]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

That's a bit OTT Tez.... if we get rid of all bob marlys hungry men, because hungry men are angry men, then who's gunna mow my lawn.

 

bugger me... that'll make me angry!

 

.... oops.... that's me then, too.... let's just stick to the terrorists for the mo

Angry men turn into terrorists whether they are the Islamic  terrorists who killed the 13 in Barcelona or the White supremacist terrorists who mowed down the people in Charlottesville.  

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

So-called Western ("Christian/Roman/Imperial/Democratic") values appear to be fundamentally hypocritical in many respects, moreover, they are being brutally (and highly selectively for mostly commercial reasons), blatantly enforced by violent and dishonest means in broad daylight everywhere including fairly well-balanced societies where they neither work nor are welcome ("crusader we-know-better-what-is-good-for-you attitude"). This seems to be in the root of the evil. And it is very difficult to rectify.

(I'm no Muslim, just an observation)

Please feel free to give me your list of higher values.