Myanmar men appeal against death sentences over British murders in Thailand

[JLCrab]

I have said going back to the first trial verdict December 2015 that in my opinion the Prosecution did not prove their cases(s) beyond a reasonable doubt.

I have never said whether I think the B2 are guilty or not. In fact, even before the December 26, 2014 hearing, I said that it was quite possible that other tourists were responsible for the crimes and left the island before anybody knew much of what happened. I have pointed out discrepancies in their testimony that may be some of the reasons that the Court gave the verdict it did.

It's on the record.

Edited August 27, 2017 by JLCrab

[greenchair]

49 minutes ago, balo said:

If Sean were completey innocent he would come forward or write a book about what happened on KT . His complete silence in this case , except the one interview we have seen makes you wonder. Not a word from him.

He was so scared of not being able to get on the plane, because he was terrified of getting caught before he got to the airport. 

[greenchair]

43 minutes ago, jing jing said:

If I were to speculate, I'd say he may well have some information that could put his life in jeopardy.

Put his freedom in jeopardy more like it. The wounds on his arm are the same as David's. 

Some people think he was in on the rape, then it got out of hand and he ran. 

[sambum]

13 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I have said going back to the first trial verdict December 2015 that in my opinion the Prosecution did not prove their cases(s) beyond a reasonable doubt.

I have never said whether I think the B2 are guilty or not. In fact, even before the December 26, 2014 hearing, I said that it was quite possible that other tourists were responsible for the crimes and left the island before anybody knew much of what happened. I have pointed out discrepancies in their testimony that may be some of the reasons that the Court gave the verdict it did.

It's on the record.

 

13 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

 

Only one further thing to say on this:- "all your previous insinuations" 

[JLCrab]

What I have said is that the Court, going back to the December 26 2014 hearing, think that the B2 are a couple of liars and that might be the reason at least in part they ruled as they did. You can call that as you like.

What I have mostly questioned is that, if the B2 are not complicit in these crimes, then everybody knows who is.

Edited August 27, 2017 by JLCrab

[Nemises]

I am completely stunned that you have the audacity to virtually agree (now that the B2 have been proven guilty and sentenced to death) that they did not have a fair trial!!!
 
Coming from you after all your previous insinuations that the B2 were as guilty as sin, your previous post can almost be construed as the work of a troll, as the current topics of disagreement seem to be almost exhausted and they have all been covered before at great length.
 
 

Agree 100%..... the guy is an out-and-out troll.

[JLCrab]

Thank you. I know exactly what I have written and am sticking with it. The Supreme Court is supposed to announce its decision whether to take the case in a week or so. So we'll take it from there.

[sambum]

44 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

What I have said is that the Court, going back to the December 26 2014 hearing, think that the B2 are a couple of liars and that might be the reason at least in part they ruled as they did. You can call that as you like.

What I have mostly questioned is that, if the B2 are not complicit in these crimes, then everybody knows who is.

You may recall that (surprisingly!) I agree with you on one thing. I am sick of hearing certain posters saying "Everybody knows who did/done it".  

 

However, all of your posts that I have read regarding this trial (and I do not profess to have read all of them - they, like certain other members' posts have become very repetitive in their content) certainly give the impression that you believe the B2 to be guilty, always seeming to side with the prosecution, regardless of their failings.

[JLCrab]

I have never sided with Prosecution. I just take it as fact that this is Thailand and they are the Prosecution.

Edited August 27, 2017 by JLCrab

[sambum]

25 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I have never sided with Prosecution. I just take it as fact that this is Thailand and they are the Prosecution.

Absolute garbage! You are saying that you have never agreed with the Prosecution, and there are many, many times when you have defended their statements.

I am going to comment no further on your recent statements before this turns personal, as I find your hypocrisy quite astounding - goodnight. 

[IslandLover]

10 hours ago, bannork said:

I find it strange that since that day Sean McAnna  has remained silent.

They paid him well (sorry, I don't have time to look for that photo of Sean shaking hands with the cop, but it does exist).

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

You may recall that (surprisingly!) I agree with you on one thing. I am sick of hearing certain posters saying "Everybody knows who did/done it".  

 

However, all of your posts that I have read regarding this trial (and I do not profess to have read all of them - they, like certain other members' posts have become very repetitive in their content) certainly give the impression that you believe the B2 to be guilty, always seeming to side with the prosecution, regardless of their failings.

I suppose if you keep broaching the same points that others don't agree with then the answer will seem repetitive. 

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, IslandLover said:

They paid him well (sorry, I don't have time to look for that photo of Sean shaking hands with the cop, but it does exist).

In a documentary that I saw there were pictures of Sean whilst living life to the full.  I can only describe him as appearing to be in wild eyed altered state.  Whatever one believes, it's very difficult to give any legal weight to his evidence.

[IslandLover]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

In a documentary that I saw there were pictures of Sean whilst living life to the full.  I can only describe him as appearing to be in wild eyed altered state.  Whatever one believes, it's very difficult to give any legal weight to his evidence.

Agreed, and one has to ask how he found the money to get himself to Italy and start a new life.

[TheLobster]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

Absolute garbage! You are saying that you have never agreed with the Prosecution, and there are many, many times when you have defended their statements.

I am going to comment no further on your recent statements before this turns personal, as I find your hypocrisy quite astounding - goodnight. 

True, Crab is just entertaining herself and thinks this is a bit of fun. Saddo!

 

24 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

In a documentary that I saw there were pictures of Sean whilst living life to the full.  I can only describe him as appearing to be in wild eyed altered state.  Whatever one believes, it's very difficult to give any legal weight to his evidence.

 

21 minutes ago, IslandLover said:

Agreed, and one has to ask how he found the money to get himself to Italy and start a new life.

A good point and possibly no one will ever know. I like to think that there will be retribution for Sean should the B2 be executed.

[Krenjai]

49 minutes ago, IslandLover said:

Agreed, and one has to ask how he found the money to get himself to Italy and start a new life.

I believe Sean knows who did it, he even posted that on his FB page while they were chasing him in the supermarket, right? Don't forget the guy was (and is) a complete fruitcake. I am sure he reads these forums, so how can you live with yourself Sean?

 

I never heard a plausible explanation for the blood on your guitar and why you did not wash off the blood? I think it is simply because you didn't realize it was on there, right? You claim it was from falling of a motorbike! Rubbish! 

 

Look at his arm, he had the exact same size stab-wound on his right under arm, like David had so many of. I bet it was a push-knife inflicted wound that sprayed all over the guitar. It was treated at the AC bar that night, remember that rumor (fact?)? 

 

My take on this is very simple! No, he has not overslept, as per her own explanation to meet up with David. That is also rubbish, party animals like Sean do not oversleep! No.....

 

Although Sean did not watch the killings, he was close enough, he heard something and walked on the beach towards the scene in progress and was met by somebody who told him to f* off (by pushknife). The perps who knew Sean, were worried, they knew he had seen/witnessed something and therefore wanted to make sure he kept his mouth shut. They threatened to hang him and Sean did the runner.

 

He has to keep silent, he does not know for sure who did it, but I guess he has a fairly good idea ans I promise you it was not the B2. Sean, care to respond?

 

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Krenjai

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, TheLobster said:

True, Crab is just entertaining herself and thinks this is a bit of fun. Saddo!

 

Yes -- I find reading some of the self-righteous, self-aggrandizing BS that gets posted on here to be very entertaining.

[JLCrab]

9 hours ago, sambum said:

Absolute garbage! You are saying that you have never agreed with the Prosecution, and there are many, many times when you have defended their statements.

I am going to comment no further on your recent statements before this turns personal, as I find your hypocrisy quite astounding - goodnight. 

The Prosecution does not need my support. They are the Prosecution. That's like saying do you support the weather.

I have said since December 2015 that the Prosecution in my opinion did not provide proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So the rest up to you. And your likers as well.

Edited August 27, 2017 by JLCrab

[balo]

5 hours ago, Krenjai said:

Although Sean did not watch the killings, he was close enough, he heard something and walked on the beach towards the scene in progress and was met by somebody who told him to f* off (by pushknife).

 

Really ?  Did Sean talk about that ?  You are just making up what you think happened aren't you?

Sean could actually be even more involved , he could be one of the rapists.  There could be a group of drugged people there and it got out of control .  

 

 

 

 

 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, balo said:

 

Really ?  Did Sean talk about that ?  You are just making up what you think happened aren't you?

Sean could actually be even more involved , he could be one of the rapists.  There could be a group of drugged people there and it got out of control .  

 

 

 

 

 

The court documents start with an unknown number of people attacked the first and second deceased. 

It also says they could not press charges against Muang Muang because even though his dna was on the cigarettes there was none on the victims. So therefore, difficult to prove he was there. 

The same could be said of Sean. 

The interview shows he is lying. The original reports said an Englishman was on the log playing English songs. 

[FreddieRoyle]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

 

 

The Prosecution does not need my support. They are the Prosecution. That's like saying do you support the weather.

I have said since December 2015 that the Prosecution in my opinion did not provide proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So the rest up to you. And your likers as well.

 

 

 The Prosecution - I note you capitalize the P - has interesting form. Have you been over to the Samui section of this very forum where there is a discussion about a murdered German national. Same Prosecution, and it's quite incredible that seemingly well educated farang can agree with and defend these <insert and derogatory term of your choosing>

 

 Did I hear the AC bar has finally been demolished and is now dive offices? It was mothballed for years after the big events that unfolded there, just another sign of guilt.

[stephenterry]

4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- I find reading some of the self-righteous, self-aggrandizing BS that gets posted on here to be very entertaining.

Looked in the mirror, lately? fits to a Tee.

[JLCrab]

I have never defended them. They are the Prosecution. If you are under Thailand's jurisdiction and charged with a crime they are the ones who will prosecute. They don't give you a choice.

[JLCrab]

No because I don't pontificate and tell others what they should understand or don't understand like you do.

Edited August 28, 2017 by JLCrab

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

The court documents start with an unknown number of people attacked the first and second deceased. 

It also says they could not press charges against Muang Muang because even though his dna was on the cigarettes there was none on the victims. So therefore, difficult to prove he was there. 

The same could be said of Sean. 

The interview shows he is lying. The original reports said an Englishman was on the log playing English songs. 

The court judgement states that the attack took place around midnight, which contradicts the evidence, Hannah entered AC bar at midnight, whilst it would be another 2 hours before David was seen entering the same venue.

The court does not adrress the discrepency that Muang Muang stated he arrived home to find the defendants asleep , whilst WP testifies that he met him on the way home 

[boomerangutang]

 

On 8/27/2017 at 8:31 AM, JLCrab said:

You folks can discuss DNA all you want. On this very topic there was one person who claimed to have friends in the bar that night and saw all that went down right up to the crime and another who offered what would have to be a nearly eyewitness account of the crime itself. So good old-fashioned evidence is (presumably) out there.

Who are those eyewitnesses' names, and what did they see?

 

                       Bringing up this case after nearly 2 years (or is it 3?) has stirred up many sad memories of what we discussed prior - pages and pages, single spaced, touching on every tiny detail we could find.  From my view, the only thing that indicates the 2 boys may have been guilty, is them jumping in the sea in the early morning.  They may have washed themselves (and their clothes) off in the sea, but that may have been after possibly looking at the crime scene, seeing what things of value they could steal.  That, in itself, doesn't indicate murder.

 

                  Everything else, of the thousands of bits of evidence and dropping-the-ball and lying by RTP and Brit (non-) investigators, indicates Mon and Spilled Milk were the culprits. Or, at the very least, they were involved and know full well who did it.  Others who knew they were involved:  Mon's brother, both lead cops (Jaktip and Panya) ....other cops, and probably about 20 other locals folks (and Sean) who know for sure who was involved, and just as certainly know it wasn't the two scapegoats.

[JLCrab]

Thanks. The supreme Court should give its indication within a week or so.

My guess is that the big-time Matichon newspaper group spent the better part of a year and who knows what resources trying to prove the SEP 24 & 25, 2014 stories they wrote -- which pretty much conform to the above -- were true. But they couldn't and settled the case.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/08/14/1439558550/

[GOLDBUGGY]

I agree there is no point in rehashing things 2 or 3 years later, as to if they are innocent or guilty. They have been charged and convicted in court of a serious crime, and now are fighting the Death Penalty, and not an Appeal to overturn this case. They already lost that case ages ago. 

 

So the best they can hope for now is life in prison, over the death penalty. Thailand has not exectuted anyone for quite some time, so at least they have that going for them. I guess as long as they remain alive they still have some change of getting out one day. But not one day soon.  

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

The court judgement states that the attack took place around midnight, which contradicts the evidence, Hannah entered AC bar at midnight, whilst it would be another 2 hours before David was seen entering the same venue.

The court does not adrress the discrepency that Muang Muang stated he arrived home to find the defendants asleep , whilst WP testifies that he met him on the way home 

The beginning of the judgement says hannah entered the bar at 1.15 and david at 2.08 they left by the back door so it is presumed they died anywhere between 2.15 and 5 o'clock. I didn't see your time. 

The discrepency you are talking about is the testimony of Mau Mau and defendant 2.

Mau Mau says he found them asleep and later says he woke 2nd defendant up to go and look for guitar. 

2nd defendant says he met Mau Mau on the way back to the room. 

Obviously one of them is lying. 

It would be the prosecution job to call on that, but it looks like he did not bother with their hearsay testimony and focused on the other evidence and cctv. 

In my opinion mau mau tried to leave out the bit that he was back down the beach with the 2nd defendant after they had gone back to the room. 

Who knows. To me it just shows 1 of them lied. "Again"

[rockingrobin]

48 minutes ago, greenchair said:

The beginning of the judgement says hannah entered the bar at 1.15 and david at 2.08 they left by the back door so it is presumed they died anywhere between 2.15 and 5 o'clock. I didn't see your time. 

The discrepency you are talking about is the testimony of Mau Mau and defendant 2.

Mau Mau says he found them asleep and later says he woke 2nd defendant up to go and look for guitar. 

2nd defendant says he met Mau Mau on the way back to the room. 

Obviously one of them is lying. 

It would be the prosecution job to call on that, but it looks like he did not bother with their hearsay testimony and focused on the other evidence and cctv. 

In my opinion mau mau tried to leave out the bit that he was back down the beach with the 2nd defendant after they had gone back to the room. 

Who knows. To me it just shows 1 of them lied. "Again"

 

Hannah walking into the bar 00:15 page 11 or 12

Attacked around midnight page 19

 

It was not hearsay testimony , MM testified during a pre-trial hearing

Edited August 28, 2017 by rockingrobin