Pressure Pump For Shower.(not working)

[chiangrai]

I have installed a "self priming peripheral pump" for my gas shower water heater.

The water heater wasn't working because there was not enough water pressure.

 

I have a large water tank slightly above the house and the whole house has gravity

fed plumbing which works great except that it doesn't have quite enough pressure to run the

gas shower water heater.

 

The heater has it's own 3/4" pipe coming from the tank.It's a hose pipe not a pvc pipe

except for the last few meters.I've just installed the pump myself and thought I got it right

until I got to the last stage when all I had to do was prime and bleed it and off she would go

but that didn't happen.

 

The pump just clicks itself on and of every second.Click,click,click and no matter how I tweak it

it won't run steadily.

 

Any one know what I'm doing wrong.

[bankruatsteve]

I think you want a "constant pressure" pump instead.

[wayned]

Could you take a picture of the water pump or post the make and model number.

 

I use a cheap Chinese self priming water pump to pump drinking water from a 1200 liter ong to a faucet in my kitchen.  It has a small accumulator take and a pressure switch that turns off/on the pump when the faucet is opened. If the faucet is fully opened it runs continually, but if the faucet is only opened a little bit, the pump will cycle on and off.  That's normal operation do to the small size of the accumulator tank. 

 

When it is clicking on and off, is it pumping water with the shower turned on?  If it is, turn of the power and unhook the supply line to the shower and turn the power back on, does the pump run normally? If it does,, the water supply is being restricted by the flow control valve in the heater so that it can properly heat the water and do to the reduced flow the pump will cycle on and off, normal operation. I hope that you marked the original setting on the screw  adjustment in the pressure switch.

 

If it is not pumping water and just clicking, I would unhook the input to the shower to see if the pump will prime.  If it's still clicking on and of and not pumping water I would then try shorting out the pressure switch and see if it runs and primes.

 

There are other things that could cause the problem such as a stuck flow valve in the pump so a picture of the beast would help!

 

I tried to attach a picture of my pump  from the net but s usual I can't and I'm too lazy to go take a picture and post it.

[VocalNeal]

You need to build yourself an accumulator/buffer chamber. There is another post here somewhere, where a pump has similar characteristics.  https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/987659-pressure-switch-time-lags/?page=2

 

Quote

Solution , from the delivery exit pipe he changed the 25mm to a 100mm and 2 meters long and then back to the existing 25mm. Problem solved , not the first time he has done it . Water pressure is good and no start stop from the motor .

 

The air trapped in the large horizontal pipe will compress until the pump cuts out, then expand as the water flows through your heater until the pump cuts in again.

 

"proper" home water pumps have an accumulator built in., it is the tank they sit on or in the case of constant pressure ones, the vertical chamber.

Edited August 22, 2017 by VocalNeal

[Crossy]

18 hours ago, chiangrai said:

It's a hose pipe not a pvc pipe except for the last few meters.

 

Is the hose collapsing when the pump fires up, restricting it's supply?

[chiangrai]

 

 This is the machine.

 

When we hooked up the in-pipe and had just the pvc out-pipe left open(not connected to the shower heater) it worked fine.We thought all we had to do was attatch it to the shower heater.

 

But it didn't work out that way.

 

And yes Crossy,the hose seems to be collapsing at some time.I don't know what itdoes when the pipe is running.

Most of it is under ground except about 2 meters from the storage tank.

 

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, chiangrai said:

And yes Crossy,the hose seems to be collapsing at some time.

I suggest that you fix this first, it can't be doing any good.

 

How does it run with the inlet hose disconnected from the heater?

 

Check the heater filter and if it has a flow restrictor.

 

It's a new pump, but it's still worth checking that the accumulator (the round red thing) isn't full of water (unscrew it and shake the water out). If the accumulator has a tyre valve check it's pumped up to the recommended pressure (printed on the outside).

 

 

[chiangrai]

.

How do I fix the  hose pipe so it doesn't collapse.

 

 

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, chiangrai said:

How do I fix the  hose pipe so it doesn't collapse.

Replace it with a rigid pipe I'm afraid.

 

Have you checked the accumulator and how it runs with the inlet off the water heater?

 

[wayned]

1 hour ago, chiangrai said:

 

 This is the machine.

 

When we hooked up the in-pipe and had just the pvc out-pipe left open(not connected to the shower heater) it worked fine.We thought all we had to do was attatch it to the shower heater.

 

But it didn't work out that way.

 

And yes Crossy,the hose seems to be collapsing at some time.I don't know what itdoes when the pipe is running.

Most of it is under ground except about 2 meters from the storage tank.

 

I use the exact same type of pump to pump the water from my water collection ONG to the faucet in the kitchen. My input to the pump is also a hose, the heavy green type that does not collapse.  If the pump is pumping water  when it is not attached to the water heater then as crossy said there might be a restriction on the input, a dirty filter.

 

If  I fully turn on the water faucet connected to  my water pump the water pump turns on and does not click on and off.  If I reduce the flow it will start clicking on and of.  The frequency of the on/off cycle will increase the more that I reduce the flow..  If I turn the faucet of the pump will stop.  This is normal operation do to the small size of the accumulator tank on the pump,   These cheap pumps are actuality designed for irrigation systems  and are normally operated full on or off. The accumulator tank does have an internal  rubber bladder and the tank is pressurized.  My tank has standard air filler valve on it and it should be pressurized to 2 PSI below the cut on pressure of the pressure switch.  Some tanks do not have a valve and are pressurized with nitrogen.

 

WHEN YOU TURN ON THE WATER HEATER DO YOU GET PRESURIZED WATER FROM IT EVEN IF THE PUMP IS SWITCHING ON AND OFF?

 

If your input hose is collapsing the only fix is to replace it with rigid PVC .

Edited August 22, 2017 by wayned

[chiangrai]

O,K---The hose pipe has stopped collapsing up at the tank.

It then runs down hill to the house where I have a valve before

it enters the house and there is great water pressure there,it is a 3/4" pipe.

 

So when I connect the inlet pipe and open it and go inside nothing happens.

The pump cliks once and that's that.There is no water coming out of the shower

heater.I can not disconnect anything,like the shower heater because every thing is 

set and glued in. 

 

[Crossy]

How did you stop the hose collapsing?

 

OK, remove the outlet pipe from the pump. Temporarily put a tap on the outlet.

 

If you've adjusted the pressure switch do this:-

 

WARNING Many of these pumps have a lot of live metalwork in the pressure switch, take great care!!

WARNING Many of these pumps have a lot of live metalwork in the pressure switch, take great care!! (yes I did mean to say it twice)

 

With the outlet valve closed turn the switch adjustment in the + direction until it clicks (pump starts). The pump should run briefly. Turn the switch more in the same direction, the same should happen. Open the outlet valve and the pump should run and stop when you close the valve.

 

Keep adjusting the pressure switch as above until the pump doesn't stop with the valve closed then back off 1/2-1 turn.

 

Now try with the shower again.

 

Have you verified the accumulator isn't water logged and is at the right pressure?

[chiangrai]

There was a Thai Guy just here and he told me to rip out the PVC that goes into the last

foot of the water heater and replace it with a "thaw nam cow nam yen"which is the flexable pipe that you see going into all wash hand basins in Thailand.

 

Then I would be able to inspect the water going into the water heater when ever I want,like tomorrow.

 

I will be back on the job tomorrow,I have no time this evening ,I have some thing else that I have to do.

 

Crossy thanks for your help.I checked the big red thing and it seems to just   unscrew from the machine and is only held in place by that.I will check it tomorrow after I check the outlet from the pump.

As for the pressure switch,I don't even know where it is.

 

We had a water cut out yesterday and I think the level of the tank went down in the afternoon after we checked it in the morning,lowering the water pressure and that 's what was causing the hose pipe to collapse.What ever it was the problem is gone.

 

Good evening gentlemen,you will hear from me tomorrow no dout.

[wayned]

On 8/21/2017 at 6:59 PM, chiangrai said:

The pump just clicks itself on and of every second.Click,click,click and no matter how I tweak it

it won't run steadily.

In the original post you made the above statement. In the last post you said " As for the pressure switch,I don't even know where it is. "  If you don't even know where the pressure switch is (it's the gray round thingy attached to the vertical pie next to the red tank that has a screw that must be removed to access the adjustment screw), what did you  "TWEAK" to try to get it to run steadily?  It's the only adjustment on the pump that I know of.  It's also the screw that crossy has told you to adjust and is usually set and sealed at the factory.

 

 

[VocalNeal]

I'm intrigued by this "garden hose' plumbing.Never seen of come across it before. Is it very common?

Edited August 23, 2017 by VocalNeal

[wayned]

11 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I'm intrigued by this "garden hose' plumbing.Never seen of come across it before. Is it very common?

I live in the sticks where the local water supply is a tower about 1 km from my house and the supply is very intermittent at times.  I have 12 ONGs behind my house that I collect and store rain water run off from the roof.  It is used for two purposes:

1. I use it to fill the stainless steel tank to supply water to the house when there is no local water.  I pump it into the tank using a submersible pump that is moved to each tank.  It is connected to a green garden hose to allow me to move the pump from ONG to ONG

2. I also have an extra faucet in the kitchen that is attached to a self priming pump.  The input of the pump is connected to a green garden hose and PVC pipe with a foot valve so that I can move it from tank to tank.  This is the water that I use for dri

 

My house is plumbed with normal PVC but I do have some "garden hose" plumbing!

[sometimewoodworker]

The garden hose on the outlet side of the pump is not a problem, though you could be restricting the amount of water flow. If you have it on the inlet side it isn't a great idea. If the inlet (garden hose) is collapsing then the pump is trying to suck more water than is available, as has been mentioned the only cure for that is rigid pipe.

 

it seems as if the pump could be too big for the job or that your water heater is blocked