Farmers defend Yingluck scheme and ask for help

[halloween]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

http://www.worldwatch.org/agricultural-subsidies-remain-staple-industrial-world-0

 

True and only in Thailand has a PM been charged for a subsidy policy pledged to the people. If that is so, the top 20 food producing countries which has subsidies of USD480 B in 2012 will be similarly be charged. Direct payment that decouple from production is not uniquely Thai too. Direct payment is a common form of subsidy to farmers to produce as much or as little and still receive the subsidy. 

Did you notice this bit? “I understand that the government wants to punish a corrupt politician, ....."

 

Even the farmers getting a handout know/admit she was bent.

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, halloween said:

Did you notice this bit? “I understand that the government wants to punish a corrupt politician, ....."

 

Even the farmers getting a handout know/admit she was bent.

I know you are intelligent enough to know that this is not about corruption. Well unless I am wrong about you. It is about eliminating popular elected officials so that the power and wealth of establishment and military will not be challenged. 

[seajae]

4 hours ago, yellowboat said:

You can sit on your high horse and give a hi-so lecture a very powerful voting block if you would like, pushing hate even further in Thailand, or you can reason with them.  One of the farmers said:

 

He has stated a problem.  If he is telling the truth and is ignored, the viscous cycle will continue.  Is the junta going to do anything for people who support and political adversary?  Perhaps not in today's Thailand. 

not at all, I am simply pointing out the truth, I grew up on a farm and all my uncles had farms so I know what is involved. These farmers in many cases refuse to change the way they do things, why is it other countries get much better tonnage from their fields than thais, simple answer is they changed their methods, no good trying to reason with them because they refuse to listen, they just want more money fro doing bugger all. Maybe if they actually modernized and changed they would see profits instead of losses but you cant help some people, they are just too ignorant

[sawadee1947]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

government to help

soldiers need subs, carrier, tanks aso and are not interested in low class people. They should suffer because of Yingluck!?

[halloween]

29 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I know you are intelligent enough to know that this is not about corruption. Well unless I am wrong about you. It is about eliminating popular elected officials so that the power and wealth of establishment and military will not be challenged. 

I know this IS about corruption, the SOP of the Shinawatras. You can BS about subsidies and helping the poor until you are blue in the face, the facts of the matter are the same - it was a populist appeal to get elected while they continued sucking the life's blood from the nation.

[Golden Triangle]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Eric,

 

When most of the money of taxes is collected in BKK its only fair that it gets put back there too. 

60% of taxes in 2010 64,4% in 2011 and 63,8% in 2012

 

Can't say I agree with your statement there robblok old chap, London's  financial center of the UK makes Billions of pounds for the British exchequer every year, I'll think you'll find that is redistributed through out the whole of the UK. As it should be here, Bangkok isn't a special needs case, the rest of the country is.

[Jonmarleesco]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Farmers say ... rice is very cheap now, and they can’t make enough profit from farming.

That's market forces for you. When - if ever - is the government going to invest in diversifying farmers away from rice?

[robblok]

Just now, Golden Triangle said:

Can't say I agree with your statement there robblok old chap, London's  financial center of the UK makes Billions of pounds for the British exchequer every year, I'll think you'll find that is redistributed through out the whole of the UK. As it should be here, Bangkok isn't a special needs case, the rest of the country is.

No need to agree, its how I see things. Amsterdam in the Netherlands gets more money then smaller cities and farming towns too as that is where the money is made. People who pay tax should at least see their benefits before you redistribute it to others. Keeping BKK as money making place is a good thing neglecting it and losing that source of income would be bad. 

 

If I pay a lot of tax id like to see the street in front of my house fixed before that of some far away town where nobody pays taxes and almost no money is made. Why else would i pay taxes if I don't see some benefit from it. I feel its highly unfair for the Bangkok salary workers to pay the taxes only to see it used on a failing rice program where they dont see any benefits from. 

 

I guess you and I differ in how we see things, if I pay for something i want more say in it then someone who does not pay for it. I guess you as Brit don't mind all those people from other countries coming into your health system without ever having paid a dime for it while those who have get worse and worse care. (see what i mean with people paying in a system should have more rights as those who dont)

[Jonmarleesco]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

At that time, due to the pledging scheme, the price was as high as Bt15,000 per tonne

Of course it was. Helped by the farmers being a Shinawatra support base. The problem was, the taxpayer was propping up the price of a product whose market price was nowhere near the pledging one. 

[Golden Triangle]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

No need to agree, its how I see things.

I understand what you are saying, but that is not how true democracy* works is it, that's is why we have a welfare state in the UK, and yes it annoys me to see people taking advantage of it but that will happen in any society. The wealth still needs to be distributed around the Kingdom, for the good of everyone, it's a bit like saying "Its my football and I'm taking it home" attitude. 

 

*And yes I know this is not a true Democracy in the fullest sense of the word, but your attitude would be the same if it was a democratically elected government, and in closing I suppose we have all the Bangkokians to blame for the purchase of all the Subs, Tanks and Missiles, afterall you lot paid for them with your taxes (Very tongue in cheek) 

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I understand what you are saying, but that is not how true democracy* works is it, that's is why we have a welfare state in the UK, and yes it annoys me to see people taking advantage of it but that will happen in any society. The wealth still needs to be distributed around the Kingdom, for the good of everyone, it's a bit like saying "Its my football and I'm taking it home" attitude. 

 

*And yes I know this is not a true Democracy in the fullest sense of the word, but your attitude would be the same if it was a democratically elected government, and in closing I suppose we have all the Bangkokians to blame for the purchase of all the Subs, Tanks and Missiles, afterall you lot paid for them with your taxes (Very tongue in cheek) 

I am against those bloody subs and tanks too.. I am against all wastage of tax money. And yes in a real democracy i think exactly the same I also see your point of the argument. Redistributing wealth is always a socialist thing (I am not for full capitalism but more a mix). I am for the middle class not the rich. 

 

Just get bored here when people complain about money being spend on BKK while in reality its also generated here in BKK 

[Ace of Pop]

Abuut time a Farmer was clearly define for the Dumb Ferangs here..They clearly mistake anyone in a Straw Hat as one.AFarmhand here gets called a Farmer here, and believes he is one.Small holdings are more like the truth Thai Real Farmers with big land are like all Farmers,never happy.?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

not at all, I am simply pointing out the truth, I grew up on a farm and all my uncles had farms so I know what is involved. These farmers in many cases refuse to change the way they do things, why is it other countries get much better tonnage from their fields than thais, simple answer is they changed their methods, no good trying to reason with them because they refuse to listen, they just want more money fro doing bugger all. Maybe if they actually modernized and changed they would see profits instead of losses but you cant help some people, they are just too ignorant

What you say might be true, but your methods of persuasion will yield nothing but animosity from the people who decide the future of the next elected leader of the country.  Think you and the junta have trouble seeing the big picture.   Why doesn't some uni set up a non rice farm in the same area ?   Telling a massive voting block they are just plane stupid is not going to help Thailand. 

[yellowboat]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I seen quite a few articles about programs like that and giving knowledge to farmers. I also know that farmers hate change and prefer a handout. 

Seen the same articles but have not seen much actual action.  Why doesn't some uni set up an alternative farm in the same area as a teaching tool ?   Farmers are also the deciding vote in then "next" election.  They need to be persuaded, not berated .   In Thailand one reads and hears a lot, but sees little action. 

[Golden Triangle]

We have a saying in the UK (you may have the same in your home country) 

 

"You never see a farmer on a pushbike"  

[johng]

 
"You never see a farmer on a pushbike"  

Thats right they are too busy blocking the roads with their
"Chelsea Tractors"

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Seen the same articles but have not seen much actual action.  Why doesn't some uni set up an alternative farm in the same area as a teaching tool ?   Farmers are also the deciding vote in then "next" election.  They need to be persuaded, not berated .   In Thailand one reads and hears a lot, but sees little action. 

I actually also seen quite a few articles about successful farmers who marketed their products straight to the end users and so on.  There seem to be quite a few farmers successful but they are adapting.. changing.. not doing the same stuff all the time.

 

I agree about the reading and hearing a lot and little action (not junta or Shin related just general thing). 

 

I also today again drove past a big sluice that they started constructing after the big 2011 floods... and its still not done.. some days you see people working on it (especially during all the flooding fears and so on) then other days like today nobody there. I really wonder how this works.. is it a fault of the central goverment.. has the local goverment diverted the funds... where does it go wrong. 

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

We have a saying in the UK (you may have the same in your home country) 

 

"You never see a farmer on a pushbike"  

Im not so sure about that in my country.. we got more pushbikes then people. I actually know a few tulip farmers that do own pushbikes (and expensive cars)

[ianf]

11 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

Farmers all around the world complain about prices, but with no farmers there is no food so a compromise has to be reached hence subsidies which other countries pay there farmers but here the money just ends up in corrupt pockets including farmers but mainly the HISO.

Well, there's one farmer who fell hook, line and sinker for the Shinawatra con! Makes you laugh....well it would if it wasn't so sad

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

I know this IS about corruption, the SOP of the Shinawatras. You can BS about subsidies and helping the poor until you are blue in the face, the facts of the matter are the same - it was a populist appeal to get elected while they continued sucking the life's blood from the nation.

Talking about sucking the life blood from the nation, give it up for the junta government. They did lots of sucking up of the treasury reserves and left it almost empty and created the biggest budget deficit than previous government and sucked it all up for the increase in defense budget. Now that not in the military SOP rather SOP of a handful of generals. 

[chainarong]

12 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

Farmers all around the world complain about prices, but with no farmers there is no food so a compromise has to be reached hence subsidies which other countries pay there farmers but here the money just ends up in corrupt pockets including farmers but mainly the HISO.

No farmers or persons producing on the land in Australia get subsidies, not even for fuel,  they were all phased out decades ago

[chainarong]

Money for jam, great if U can get it................................

[ianf]

14 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Talking about sucking the life blood from the nation, give it up for the junta government. They did lots of sucking up of the treasury reserves and left it almost empty and created the biggest budget deficit than previous government and sucked it all up for the increase in defense budget. Now that not in the military SOP rather SOP of a handful of generals. 

Hardly the issue Eric. But a neat diversion

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, ianf said:

Hardly the issue Eric. But a neat diversion

That was a response to your mate Halloween but I think it hit home to junta fans on some reality and inconvenient truth. The coup was about staying in power and unchallenged feeding frenzy and not about corruption.  

[halloween]

56 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Talking about sucking the life blood from the nation, give it up for the junta government. They did lots of sucking up of the treasury reserves and left it almost empty and created the biggest budget deficit than previous government and sucked it all up for the increase in defense budget. Now that not in the military SOP rather SOP of a handful of generals. 

Forget the junta for a while, the topic is the rice scam. Why didn't they just GIVE the poor people the money? B10,000/year for the 15 million Kittirat said needed help without the messing about with rice and the corruption involved?  Cheaper, much more effective, but no agency fees for mates and fake G2G deals - where's the fun in that?

[kaorop]

1 hour ago, chainarong said:

No farmers or persons producing on the land in Australia get subsidies, not even for fuel,  they were all phased out decades ago

Thats false, it takes 10 seconds to find that out, so dont make stuff up.

[ianf]

25 minutes ago, halloween said:

Forget the junta for a while, the topic is the rice scam. Why didn't they just GIVE the poor people the money? B10,000/year for the 15 million Kittirat said needed help without the messing about with rice and the corruption involved?  Cheaper, much more effective, but no agency fees for mates and fake G2G deals - where's the fun in that?

According to Loh, you're my mate. Hello?

The problem with people who take sides is that the truth is always inconvenient. Off course, this is not a question about the junta, this is about the rice 'scam' set up by Thaksin and administered by his stool pigeon, Yingluck.

It is clear, not only to me but also to many other impartial observers, that the rice pledging scheme was based in an attempt to create a world shortage of rice, thus forcing the price up. If this had happened then there would have been two outcomes:

1) Poor people the world over would have had to pay more for their staple diet

2) Thaksin would have won his 'bet' with the rice and from what I understand everyone (except those in (1) above) would have benefitted. Thaksin and his cronies through their own personal interest and the farmers who may (or may not) have been paid for their rice pledged at the higher cost.

 

That this did not happen is, thankfully, due to Vietnam and India who leapt into the void by increasing their exports of rice thus foiling Thaksin's attempt at bribing the farmers and in the process lining his pocket.

 

What also didn't happen was good management of the pledged rice. Inferior rice was shipped across the Cambodia/Laos borders and pledged at the higher price thus making a mockery of this scheme and rice was badly stored causing tonnes to rot away.

 

And the sting in the tail was that there was not enough money in the system to pay all the farmers: so only the farmers in Thaksin's heartlands were paid. The junta promptly found the funds to clear the debt to the farmers created by Thaksin and his incompetent 'sister'.

 

This is what happened. Chapter and verse. I don't care if the junta organised this scheme, I don't care if Thaksin organised it, I don't care if Uncle Tom Cobbly organised it: It stank. And whatever Thaksin's fanboys claim, they cannot escape the facts. If the Junta had organised it I would have made the same criticism of them. The whole scheme was disgusting.

[kaorop]

50 minutes ago, halloween said:

Forget the junta for a while, the topic is the rice scam.

Yeah halloween you go man, make sure every thread you can post in is about blaming the shins for something, never mind what the thread title is ! Oh sorry forgot you already do.

Rice farmers are asking for help, because they are struggling, they referred to YL and that pledging debacle as something that did help them.....which has little to do with the corruption further up the chain...Thats what this topic IS

Edited August 22, 2017 by kaorop

[ianf]

7 minutes ago, kaorop said:

Yeah halloween you go man, make sure every thread you can post in is about blaming the shins for something, never mind what the thread title is ! Oh sorry forgot you already do.

That's not necessarily true. This is an issue that can be debated without taking sides. The facts are so transparent. In fact I reckon it was a pretty dumb thing to do....don't you?

[halloween]

36 minutes ago, kaorop said:

Yeah halloween you go man, make sure every thread you can post in is about blaming the shins for something, never mind what the thread title is ! Oh sorry forgot you already do.

Rice farmers are asking for help, because they are struggling, they referred to YL and that pledging debacle as something that did help them.....which has little to do with the corruption further up the chain...Thats what this topic IS

So we should discuss the pittance paid to poor farmers and ignore the corruption and waste? Did you notice how fast your fellow sycophant Eric disappeared from the thread when a far simpler, and cheaper, method was proposed? That's what he would like too, concentrate on those who got some benefit and ignore everything else, especially the corruption. Tough TIT.