How to start investing/trading on the Thai Stockexchange for complete newb.

[DLang]

Thanks for the great replies.

 

At the moment I'm also considering Forex, to keep it rather simple (or simpler)

[12DrinkMore]

3 minutes ago, DLang said:

At the moment I'm also considering Forex, to keep it rather simple (or simpler)

 

That is like standing over a barbeque and throwing money on it, whilst stressing yourself out and having a series of minor heart attacks.

 

However, if you can work out why one currency moves against another in a consistent, reproducible and foreseeable way, then you will have found the Holy Grail.

 

 

[DLang]

17 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

That is like standing over a barbeque and throwing money on it,

Haha. Possibly. 

 

Quote

whilst stressing yourself out and having a series of minor heart attacks.

I wouldn't be. It would just be a bit of fun experimentation.

 

 

17 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

However, if you can work out why one currency moves against another in a consistent, reproducible and foreseeable way, then you will have found the Holy Grail.

[khunPer]

On 8/23/2017 at 7:05 AM, DLang said:

For example, is there an online interface where I can sign in, transfer money from my account, place it on different stocks, and if wanting - buy more, sell, move it to other stocks, withdraw to my bank account etc?

 

Thanks. 

If it can help, I can tell you want I've been doing over some years here.

 

An option if you are inexperience, is to use the various Thai bank's so-called Fund Books, which are a variety of mutual funds. Having savings in Thailand, in Thai baht, is often to avoid currency fluctuations, so funds investing in Thai currency should be preferred for US, and European, and other foreign currencies or global. You can choose from either bonds that don't give much more interest (some even little less) than fixed bank accounts, to SET stocks and a mix of specialized divisions thereof – like transportation and construction, or... – and in some cases also a mix between bonds and stocks. Most Thai banks (af not all) have these mutual Fund Books, and they are often explained on their home page (might be a specialized division of the bank). You can buy funds in the bank's local branch – and in some bank's also through their Internet banking – and when selling you'll have the money in the account between next bank day and five bank days, depending of type of funds.

 

I've been using the following three banks – but there are more – which I have English-language links for. You can see the historical performance, but history is not a guarantee of future performance. Some funds pay dividends, other are accumulation (i.e. profits are reinvested in the fund, and will be gained only when selling)...

Bangkok Bank

K-Bank, Kasikorn Bank

SCB, Siam Commercial Bank

 

You can trade directly at SET (Stock exchange of Thailand) either through a broker account or via a bank. I use a bank's trading platform – like I'm use to from my European home country – and that's what I have experience in, and can refer to here. It's not a recommendation, as there might be numerous other possibilities, but an example.

 

I use "SCB-online", which I find extremely easy to use. It require that you have a normal bank account with an ATM-card in SCB. Inside SCB-online you can instantly move money from your ATM-account into your Trading account (during normal bank-hours only). Money deposit in your Trading-account generates pt. a 1% annual interest rate. Taking money out from you trading account, for example when selling equity, takes 3-5 days before the amount is available in your ATM-account. Any dividends are paid directly into you ATM-account.

 

When buying and selling it shall be it lots of 100 shares, so some stocks are not available for 10,000 baht, as the buying price for each stock may be over 100 bath, but you can "save up" in your Trading-account and buy when you have enough; i.e. SCC (Siam Cement Company) sells for over 500 baht each, so you'll need more than 50,000 baht to buy 100 shares.

 

You shall use the letter abbreviation for the companies when placing orders, so you need to get familiar with some of those, the ones of interest for investing in; i.e. SCB = Siam Commercial Bank; ADVANC = AIS, Advanced Info System; etc.

A source to easily check performance of individual companies can be SiamChart; but also Google can be used to find abbreviations and company background; however there might be other homepages that I'm not familiar with.

 

As foreigner you shall normally buy with the "NVR" option, which you can set default in the SCB-online platform. "No Voting Right" let you buy stocks without being inside the 49% allowance for foreign ownership. With the relative small amount we normal individual can afford, it doesn't matter at all with voting rights for a General Meeting. There's a minimum fee for trading, so don't trade too small lots; however 10,000 baht might be fair; otherwise the trading fees are very small.

 

The benefit for using an online-platform and select some stocks yourself is that you dont need to pay a percentage for a mutual fond administrator to manage it for you – often 1 to 1½ percent annually of the capital – however you may need to do some observation about the financial markets to stay updated. Choosing a smaller mix of larger stable and dividend paying companies, which you can check from their performance, you should be able to beat the long-term average stock-market performance of 6-7% annual capital increase.

 

My initial experience a shorter period (few years) of using with SET – and some almost 10-years experience with Thai mutual funds – is that both are performing just a good as many an equity market. So far both options have been gains for me, and better than a fixed bank account interest rate.

But always remember: the higher gain, the more risk – if you're not prepared for a risk, stick to fixed bank-accounts spread over a number of banks.

Edited August 25, 2017 by khunPer

[JameszBond]

Why have no one mentioned investing those funds in crypto instead?

[Oxx]

25 minutes ago, JameszBond said:

Why have no one mentioned investing those funds in crypto instead?

 

Uh, because they don't pass muster as an investment, but are wild speculation.  The topic here is investment.

[thaifoodruns]

There are too much stocks to choose from, why don't you put that money in a mutual fund or chose an ETF that follows the SET index


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[thaifoodruns]

There are too much stocks to choose from, why don't you put that money in a mutual fund or chose an ETF that follows the SET index (you can also short ETFs), long ago I traded thai stocks, If I remember correctly you can only go long (I could be wrong)

 

 

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[khunPer]

2 hours ago, thaifoodruns said:

There are too much stocks to choose from, why don't you put that money in a mutual fund or chose an ETF that follows the SET index


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With Mutual Funds you'll pay about 1½ percent commission, weather it gains ore loose – selecting stocks at SET all gain and dividends are your own. Look at P/E (Price vs. Earning), and P/BV (Price vs. Book Value), and dividend history and policy, which will give a good guide of what to buy at SET. Select some companies your know (little about) for a beginning, i.e. SCC (Siam Cement Company), or SCB (Siam Commercial Bank), or AOT (Airports of Thailand), or BTS (Bangkok Transport System), or ADVANC (AIS, Advanced Info System), etc. etc.

 

Some places to find information are for example SETtrade or SiamChart.

[janclaes47]

2 hours ago, thaifoodruns said:

There are too much stocks to choose from, why don't you put that money in a mutual fund or chose an ETF that follows the SET index


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That would also be my advice for a newbie, not only in the Thai stock market but worldwide, as it more or less guarantees you of a gain.

 

The gains most probably will be much smaller than when you pick the right stock, but however not big, the gain can be much larger than the loss you make when picking the wrong stock.

 

Stock picking is for professionals, of which I know this forum has no shortage, as I read only winning stories from tvf members.

 

But believe me the 1% you get at the bank these days, isn't hard to beat by choosing an ETF, but it can be difficult to earn if you make just 1 wrong stock pick.

 

Don't worry, someone will be here soon to tell you it's as easy as buying low and selling high.

[thaifoodruns]

With Mutual Funds you'll pay about 1½ percent commission, weather it gains ore loose – selecting stocks at SET all gain and dividends are your own. Look at P/E (Price vs. Earning), and P/BV (Price vs. Book Value), and dividend history and policy, which will give a good guide of what to buy at SET. Select some companies your know (little about) for a beginning, i.e. SCC (Siam Cement Company), or SCB (Siam Commercial Bank), or AOT (Airports of Thailand), or BTS (Bangkok Transport System), or ADVANC (AIS, Advanced Info System), etc. etc.   Some places to find information are for example SETtrade or SiamChart.  

 

 

 

   If you really want to try then pick the banking sector ETF or the Transportation ETF based on what you mentioned above  

there a also trading software that you can filter out stocks based on price, volume, indicators etc, which will make it easier to choose what you want

 

I know a few people that are CONSISTENTLY performing yoy in the LONG RUN that buy into stock a week or so before companies release their earnings and sell a few days later.

 

Remember only 20% with that's strategy are consistently performing in the long run. Even less if your a day trader (using day trading methodologies)

 

Develope a strategy, test it out with a sim account, make sure you don't deviate from your trading plan/methodology, and if it works trade exactly the same with a live account.

 

Also OP investing and trading are completely different

 

 

 

 

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[Orac]

   If you really want to try then pick the banking sector ETF or the Transportation ETF based on what you mentioned above  there a also trading software that you can filter out stocks based on price, volume, indicators etc, which will make it easier to choose what you want
 
I know a few people that are CONSISTENTLY performing yoy in the LONG RUN that buy into stock a week or so before companies release their earnings and sell a few days later.
 
Remember only 20% with that's strategy are consistently performing in the long run. Even less if your a day trader (using day trading methodologies)
 
Develope a strategy, test it out with a sim account, make sure you don't deviate from your trading plan/methodology, and if it works trade exactly the same with a live account.
 
Also OP investing and trading are completely different
 
 
 
 
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Do you have any details on this transportation ETF you mentioned as I am not aware of one.

The banking ETF has a 0.68 expense ratio but most of its holdings are in the small group of big banks here.


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[thaifoodruns]

Do you have any details on this transportation ETF you mentioned as I am not aware of one.

The banking ETF has a 0.68 expense ratio but most of its holdings are in the small group of big banks here.


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I don't, I was assuming they would have one.





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[Orac]

17 minutes ago, thaifoodruns said:

   

I don't, I was assuming they would have one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ETF options on SET are fairly limited.  

 

 

 

https://www.set.or.th/en/products/etf/etf_investor_corner.html

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Orac

[GarryP]

6 minutes ago, Orac said:

ETF options on SET are fairly limited.  

 

 

 

 

 

The latest one is BSET100. It opened at the beginning of this month.

 

Can you suggest any others?

 

As to Mutual funds, Bangkok Bank has a new one hitting the market soon and is open for purchase between 25 September and 2 October.  B-THAICG.

[scubascuba3]

The latest one is BSET100. It opened at the beginning of this month.
 
Can you suggest any others?
 
As to Mutual funds, Bangkok Bank has a new one hitting the market soon and is open for purchase between 25 September and 2 October.  B-THAICG.

When my company was launching a new fund there was a song and dance about investing at launch, but there is really no point doing it unless the market is in the right place. Easy to buy after launch also

[Orac]

The latest one is BSET100. It opened at the beginning of this month.
 
Can you suggest any others?
 
As to Mutual funds, Bangkok Bank has a new one hitting the market soon and is open for purchase between 25 September and 2 October.  B-THAICG.

I wouldn’t like to recommend anything personally since what you do invest in needs to be tailored to some degree to your personal circumstances and risk profile.

I personally only hold a small basket of shares in 14 different companies directly through the SET using Maybank Kim Eng and rarely sell but hold long term. It is only as small part of my overall investments which I have tried to diversify as much as possible both globally and by asset class. It also removes some currency risk as opposed to investing in a Thai ETF on an overseas stock exchange in a foreign currency.

I do like the dividends here and there are some nice payers. There is an ETF here for dividend stocks, 1DIV, which would interest me if I went the ETF route here as it is made up of some of the big players - SCC, PTTGC, CPF and some of the main banks. Bloomberg show it as having 1.06 % expense ratio and a 7.6 % dividend yield which does sound suspiciously high given the size of its big holdings.


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[thaistocks]

Lots of good and bad information here.  First of all, any non-Thai can buy/invest in any Thai shares, but for non-Thai's its critical to invest only the so called NVDR shares, or market as (R). This gives you all right to dividends and other shareholder benefits, except the right to vote.  You just make sure you get the R shares, all brokers know about this!  Second, many if not most all, do publish their financials in English language which you can access at SET offical web site.  Company news and SET announcements are in English language, if you click on the English icon when you access the SET offical web site.  Many publish their annual-reports and company web sites in English besides Thai language. Many so called self acclaimed investor guru's talk about graphs which is called technical analysis, only because they have little knowledge about anything else. I.e. what the company does, its reputation, or it relative value, their financials etc.. 

 

The Thai stock market in fact has done very well over many years (but little from 2015 to mid year 2017, when it just consolidated), even better if you consider the relative strength of the Thai Baht currency.  There are many companies' here doing well, paying nice dividends (yes foreigners can get these, if you own the R shares) but just beware that many Thai brokers want their customers to trade, so to generate commissions. This can be the trap, as you then sell out your good stock picks, while keeping the laggards... in time to only hold a portfolio of laggards.  

 

In early September '17, the market broke out with gusto and has in recent days set new highs when it moved past 1700...higher then in 25 years! However this latest move-up  has been mostly confined to very large capitalized stocks rocketing up, with many secondary shares having done nothing, yet.  Hence some of the best investment bargains now are to be found in these secondary, smaller and mid cap shares.  But to know those you got to get some professional and unbiased experienced viewpoints, probably beyond the local brokers which focus most only on large cap stocks. 

 

Insider buy/sell transactions are regularly published at the SEC web site;  and yes, like any stock markets around the world, there can be illegal insider trading -some of which has gone noticed and increasingly duly fined -with names then published.  Most expats here have missed, in good part due to misinformation, the overall good returns made on Thai stocks...this over the years through responsible and diversified investing in solid Thai listed companies.

Edited October 13, 2017 by thaistocks

[up-country_sinclair]

Is there a relatively low cost ETF that tracks the SET?  My wife has a mutual fund account with a well known firm that is charging her 1.97% in fees.  When I showed her what this would end up costing her over 20 years, she nearly had a heart attack.

[Oxx]

No ETFs in Thailand are low cost compared to developed markets.  For example, TDEX, which tracks the SET50, charges just over 0.4%.  There's a list of Thai ETFs with factsheets at:

 

https://www.set.or.th/en/products/etf/fund_fact_sheet.html

[thaistocks]

Yes, there likely is but these would most only invest in institutionally required high liquid top 50-100 SET stocks, hence exactly those which have run up already...while all but ignoring the rest which make some 70% of the Thai economy.  These have not moved much (yet!) as they usually catch up post an initial run up.   1.9% fee over 20 years is a bundle for sure, but if you make 10% per year during the same period its an exponentially if far, far bigger amount, especially compared to 1-2% interest in the Bank, taxed at 15%  vs. SET gains have no Thai income tax.  Low cost ETF's are all the rage of late because in good part they have done so well in the US.  No wonder, as that market roared up for years and years..and any money manager which prudently held cash reserves on hand was well, was left behind...evenwhile he/she took less risk.

[Oxx]

58 minutes ago, thaistocks said:

Yes, there likely is but these would most only invest in institutionally required high liquid top 50-100 SET stocks, hence exactly those which have run up already...while all but ignoring the rest which make some 70% of the Thai economy.

 

(1) When investing in stocks one is not investing in the Thai economy.  There is only a loose correlation between the performance of stocks and that of the economy.

 

(2) The "70% of the Thai economy" sounds like a made up, bogus statistic.

 

To quote a real statistic, the top 100 stocks on the SET represent 70.6% of the SET (45,940.63 million baht out of 65,105.02).  Even then top 50 represent 55.3% of the market (36,022.56 million baht).

[thaistocks]

In most countries including Thailand smaller and mid cap companies make-up the bulk of the economy. That's a fact.

Yet, most institutional funds including ETF's only invest in the top tier stocks, so miss out on all the rest.  Further, most mid and small cap

companies grown on average faster then large more mature companies...while in Thailand often paying less in yields/dividends.  Big cap companies are over-analysed and over-chased by brokers and mega institutions alike, and by traders which want nice graphs and have huge liquidity. Hence often the best investor bargains are off the radar screens of most investors, evenwhile as a whole they make up the bulk of the economy. (not market cap), grow faster (on avearage) and here at least, pay nice dividends.

[thaistocks]

I frown upon the SET/SEC and the Thai brokerage industry for issuing IPO's to foreigners living in Thailand while at the same time not making available the IPO prospectus in English.  Gulf Energy (51) this week started trading in what is this years largest Thai IPO. The company confirmed to us it has the English language prospectus which was offered to institutional investors abroad, but why not to individual foreign investors in Thailand!?  Foreign investors  in IPO's are "encouraged to read this before investing" besides clicked a box in their broker accounts that they did read this, even while its not available.   In my professional view, issuing IPO's to a   class of investors without the availability of a readable prospectuses goes against proper international Securities Industry standards regarding this.  

With the economy now accelerating and next year Elections promised, there are select good companies here to invest in, -but for the Thai brokerage community there is allot left to be desired.

[Oxx]

7 hours ago, thaistocks said:

I frown upon the SET/SEC and the Thai brokerage industry for issuing IPO's to foreigners living in Thailand while at the same time not making available the IPO prospectus in English.

 

Frown as much as you want, but this was probably a purely economic decision.  There is only going to be a small handful of non-Thai speakers living in Thailand interested in this IPO.  The ones capable of putting in a lot of money will have no issue with getting their Thai staff to review the documentation for them. However, it simply not worth the candle for companies to provide small players with English versions of their (voluminous) IPO documentation.

[yengec]

thai stocks are pointless in long term. stock investing is a long term investment and why u keep your money in thai baht for a long term? you should keep your money in developed countries cureency like gbp eur usd etc.. the good days might be gone for a long time for developing countries such as thai economy. In Turkey, most of the banks offer %4 interest rate for eur or usd. its a hassle free short term investment and u can jump back in the stock market when they crash(i believe there is a baloon now and not a good time to enter)

[thaistocks]

Not so fast,  the offering of newly to be listed (PO and IPO) shares to a group of investors is a key/essential part of the securities business/industry!   With a long history in fact.. A licensed broker in the US must learn/pass exam allot around this theme as there are many exam questions surround IPO's.  Why?  Because there is a tremendous amount of potential abuse that does not meet the eye of the novice.  Like silent periods, broker research before and after the IPO with potential conflicts of interest by the IPO underwriter,  preliminary prospectus and then the final one, filing dates, pricing, allocations and over allotments restricted shares etc...But one of the key & cornerstone rules is that the prospectus must be delivered to any investor or groups which was offered to invest in it.  Any legitimate/credible stock exchange must abide by this core IPO new shares offered principle(s).  The English language prospectus on Gulf Energy was/is in fact available and was/is given to foreign institutions not in Thailand, so it was hardly a burden to ship a few copies to Thailand...and disseminate these to many foreigners living here which did invest!

 

As to yengec, do realize the Thai Baht is up nearly 10% vs. the US$ year to date, and up nearly 8% vs. the mighty Swiss Frank year to date...and vs the EU the UK pound the Thai Baht has appreciated considerably over the past 5 years, and so anybody whom kept Baht has fared actually rather well in recent times.  As we all know so called developed countries (notably the US) is what created the last global financial crisis.

[thaistocks]

The Thai stock market, like many others around the world, has been buoyant of late.  No least because of a perceived pick-up in Thai economic growth. Also because of the belief there will be elections held say within a year.  The SET benchmark index recently hit an all time high and is hovering just above that around 1830, going into the first days of February. Contrary to many nay-sayers here, Thai stocks have been on a roar... really?  No, not so fast, as the rise of the market has been mostly confined to a bunch of very large capitalized shares which make up the bulk of SET benchmark index.  In fact a closer look shows that not only has the rise been focused on very large SET companies, in fact retail investor participation has lately dropped to below 50% of total market volume.  Alarming.  This is significant as in the past retail investors usually made up some 65 to 80% of total market SET trading volume.

 

The local brokerage industry should ask themselves' why retail investors are in such great numbers recently abandoned investing in the Thai stock market as a savings alternative; evenwhile domestic interest rates remain soo low and the stock market has been bullish. One reason surely must be due to the ineptness of the industry which serves stock investors.  Confidence and trust are among the most important elements required to attract investors, and it seems this is ebbing...at least when as it concerns the local retail investor community.  This is a (big) shame, because here there are many smaller and mid sized listed companies which are attractive -besides make up the bulk of the Thai economy.  Retail investors exiting is bad news for those firms, as they will loose a large percent of people which invest in such companies, vs. institutions which most only consider/invest in large capitalized stocks due to their obsessive liquidity requirements. 

 

[jerry921]

On 8/23/2017 at 8:40 PM, DLang said:

 

A bit of fun and its close to home. 

Investing and gambling are the names for two ends of a single spectrum. Investors that are more toward the gambling end of the spectrum are sometimes called speculators. If you approach investing with the goal of having a little fun, then I suspect you're going to be more toward the gambling end. The goal of investing is plain and simply to make a pile of money bigger. Gamblers often get wiped out at some point. Researching a stock isn't going to be fun unless you're a very special type of person.

 

Your second reason is better. A famous investor, Peter Lynch, always advocated investing in companies you knew. If you buy a company's product, and like the product and your dealings with the company, that's a good starting point. But it's just a starting point, he did the research on each company before he bet money on it. You have to watch out for fads. Planet Hollywood was going to have restaurants everywhere. Crocs were going to be on everybody's feet. Etc. This method of investing misses out on a lot of companies. It's biased toward consumer stocks.

[martijn12345]

A lot of good info in this topic so far. Thanks to all for sharing. I have a couple of questions, hope anyone here can help me on the right track.

Has anyone found a way to compare costs/fees of the different brokers. It seems like pretty much any bank (just like back home) offers accounts from which you can trade, but especially for smaller accounts, it is vital go get a good deal when it comes to fees. Any advice on this. I am looking for what makes sense for an account of say half a million THB to start with.

While I am certainly interested in some Thai stocks/trading SET. I would also like to have the opportunity to invest in major western indices. Do all/any of these brokers give this option?

 

While I do enjoy stock picking, I also realize i might be better off with a mutual fund, especially for my wife as I understand some of them are tax deductible. I'd interested in one with a decent track record and decent dividend yield. Any advise on this?

Any info or pointers would be much appreciated!