Unwavering support for their absent heroine

[Jonnapat]

Thais love a "runner", one less Shinawatra to grovel to

[joecoolfrog]

3 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

And the Shinawatras are progressives I suppose? In any western democracy, they would be well to the right.

Which puts the Farang boo boys somewhere on a par with Genghis khan then !

[JAG]

 

Disagree, most of my work colleagues say the opposite.

 

You guys are just write opportunist rubbish. 

If you are as outspoken in demonstrating your hatred of all things Pheu Thai and Shinawatra, and as vitriolic in your contempt for anyone who doesn't share your views, at work as you are here, they probably agree just to have some peace and quiet!

[emoji3]

 

[impulse]

4 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

4 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

She went on to say that now the constraints are off Thaksin, and both he and Yingluck can now go online and conduct their program to get rid of the illegal Junta.  

Exactly what I heard and I think there will be very few Thais who will think otherwise and, maybe, a few right wing farang on here lol.

 

Without passing judgment whether that's good or bad, it could sure get interesting...  

 

Kind of like that old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times".

 

[Samui Bodoh]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

no I dont but the farmers are a different thing, they are uneducated and flocked to the shins due to the financial promises that were made, most are incapable of understanding the truth and again the truth is not readily available in the areas they live in, very hard when reds run the villages etc, in reality there is a lot of brainwashing happening, the educated people know better as they are able to read and understand the truth of it all. I talk to  locals where I live and they see the same things, unfortunately a lot are yellow supporters which doesnt help either, seems very few people have regard for what happens to their country, its more about personal issues, finances chief amongst them

 

"...most are incapable of understanding the truth..."

 

"...the educated people know better..."

 

"...very few people have regard for what happens to their country..."

 

Forgive me, but I find your comments both sad and terrifying. 

 

My experiences here are very different, and much more positive. I wish you had had the same.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

The BBC had and interesting article on this 2 days ago. They correctly IMHO analysed the situation as being essentially a struggle between the rural poor and the urban (Bangkok) rich. Of course the waters are pretty muddy and their are no icons of irreproachable virtue on any side - no surprise there! However the BEEB lost touch with reality when they highlighted Yingluck's estimated $17m assets. This is irrelevant peanuts compared to the riches stored away behind Bangkok's big private houses' high walls. Thailand is third in the world for biggest gap between the rich and poor (After Russia and India), and Bangkok contributes 25% to Thai GDP while consuming 75%. Once again we see the sheer horror of the rich at the idea that they might have to share any of their (Generally) ill gotten gains with the poor. Think Tories and Republicans for a western perspective!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41046993

[calexapic]

5 hours ago, seajae said:

what more can you expect from uneducated masses, when people are incapable of reading and comprehending the truth it doesnt help. All they see are dollar signs, who ever gives the the most money will always be number one,  When the proof is put in front of them they simply cannot accept it and then make excuses, many independent news sources have shown the same proof to people but their bias negates it all, they prefer their innuendo and lies

Sheesh stupid Thais choosing to hope there is something better than what they have now. 

 

You stopped short, just, of calling them the great unwashed. 

[ovi1kanobi]

23 minutes ago, calexapic said:

Sheesh stupid Thais choosing to hope there is something better than what they have now. 

 

You stopped short, just, of calling them the great unwashed. 

The thais that follow Thaksin and lingluck, are basicly uneducated savages!

[Psimbo]

32 minutes ago, calexapic said:

Sheesh stupid Thais choosing to hope there is something better than what they have now. 

 

You stopped short, just, of calling them the great unwashed. 

If you actually read into what he wrote you would understand it better and he has a valid point.

 

A few years back the Bangkokians came out and said only one in ten votes in Issan should be counted as the people were stupid and should not have a say. Unfortunately for them the people of Issan HAD learned to read and the vote was overwhelming. 

 

Education is what poor people crave all over the world- Gov't like the current one prefer people to be ill educated as they are easier to control. I know some extremely poor people in Northern Thailand who put every satang they can into their kids education.

 

Social media in Thailand is changing people as well, allowing them to be better informed. Come the day there is going to be a huge clash of the elites versus the populace- the one thing that held the country together went late last year.

 

Personally I do not like this sycophantic support for Yingluk- it's clearly been bought. 

[calexapic]

1 minute ago, Psimbo said:

If you actually read into what he wrote you would understand it better and he has a valid point.

 

A few years back the Bangkokians came out and said only one in ten votes in Issan should be counted as the people were stupid and should not have a say. Unfortunately for them the people of Issan HAD learned to read and the vote was overwhelming. 

 

Education is what poor people crave all over the world- Gov't like the current one prefer people to be ill educated as they are easier to control. I know some extremely poor people in Northern Thailand who put every satang they can into their kids education.

 

Social media in Thailand is changing people as well, allowing them to be better informed. Come the day there is going to be a huge clash of the elites versus the populace- the one thing that held the country together went late last year.

 

Personally I do not like this sycophantic support for Yingluk- it's clearly been bought. 

I'm no Shin supporter but my point was if you are being oppressed and "kept in your place" it is no wonder you will choose to blindly hope. The post had a superiority air that I objected to. Lack of education in N  is a fact and the quality of the education is under par.

 

I just hope the people don't lose momentum now their hero has gone and that, through social media perhaps, she can continue to perpetuate the belief that there is more for them, whether they ever intended to deliver or not. I hope that as the months pass, her absence does not mean the populace become disheartened and in a state of sad acceptance. Lack of belief and hope (however misplaced) is dangerous.

 

My reply was only to say you really can't blame anyone for needing and believing in a leader that promises hope. 

 

 

[calexapic]

26 minutes ago, ovi1kanobi said:

The thais that follow Thaksin and lingluck, are basicly uneducated savages!

And how is the current govt supposing to address the lack of education? And why do you suppose they follow them?

 

Logical thinking then, dictates that if these people were educated they would not support Shins? That is your implication. Educated people support the coup and the current state of affairs? Why is that?

[Just1Voice]

28 minutes ago, ovi1kanobi said:

The thais that follow Thaksin and lingluck, are basicly uneducated savages!

Oh, really?  Both my wife and my niece have PhD's (wife business - niece Law), and my son has a Master's in Thai Education.  All 3 are devout Lingluck followers, as are most of their HIGHLY EDUCATED friends, so I would hardly call them "uneducated savages".  Be careful, your ignorant, totally uninformed prejudice is showing.)

 

[LannaGuy]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I think you are blurring the distinction between fact and fiction if you think that there was no legitimate case against your heroine.

 

Why 'my heroine'?  I am not Thai and I have no dog in the fight. I do not think Yingluck was a good PM and i think there were mistakes. There was NO case because she was elected PM and decisions she made were in 'good faith'.  She was not prosecuted for any corruption but by a Military Junta. Don't believe me read Forbes:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2017/08/25/thailands-lawless-junta-versus-yingluck-shinawatra-uses-courts-to-punish-political-opponents/#422b21b269a4

[LannaGuy]

2 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

Oh, really?  Both my wife and my niece have PhD's (wife business - niece Law), and my son has a Master's in Thai Education.  All 3 are devout Lingluck followers, as are most of their HIGHLY EDUCATED friends, so I would hardly call them "uneducated savages".  Be careful, your ignorant, totally uninformed prejudice is showing.)

 

Thank you. I know many educated Thais who support them too as do many, many academics and free-thinkers.  Not because Yingluck was some great 'leader' but because this was part of the early 'paradigm shift'.

 

 In years to come, many probably, this will be looked at very differently.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

She was simply a pretty face who served as a useful puppet for her criminal fugitive brother, who came up with the rice subsidies scheme as a way to effectively buy votes from the "ignorant" masses and line their and their cronies' pockets in the process with fake G-to-G rice deals and various other shenanigans.

 

And when I say "ignorant," I don't mean it perjoratively, but rather simply a statement of fact. Great masses of Thai citizens/voters who pay no attention to what goes on with their government and elected officials, who don't care whether their elected officials break the laws or engage in corruption, so long as someone from the government comes around with $ handouts at election time or via schemes like the rice subsidies.

 

The quotes from the YL supporters waiting outside the court (not yet knowing she had scampered) were pretty telling. As one put it, YL surely hadn't done anything wrong or broken any laws, because the local farmers had gotten more money for their rice. A total non-sequitur, of course, because the legality or illegality of her actions have/had nothing to do with whether farmers got more money for their rice. But that was all they cared about. "Democracy" in action!

 

Really, the only thing that any thinking person ought to be able to say in favor of YL and her tenure as PM is that she was "elected" under Thailand's pretty flawed elections system. Other than that, pretty much a zero except for being a pretty face. Unless of course, you want to include returning the passports and seized assets to her brother, and trying to get legislative amnesty for him and a bunch of other criminals -- which is what ultimately led to her downfall.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mark131v]

6 hours ago, seajae said:

what more can you expect from uneducated masses, when people are incapable of reading and comprehending the truth it doesnt help. All they see are dollar signs, who ever gives the the most money will always be number one,  When the proof is put in front of them they simply cannot accept it and then make excuses, many independent news sources have shown the same proof to people but their bias negates it all, they prefer their innuendo and lies

What a sad person you are....

 

Most people understand that you need to walk a few paces in a persons footsteps in order to see things from their perspective

 

You are a privileged westerner who believes he knows all the answers, you don't!

 

Two sides to any story but one constant in the case of LoS is that constant interference from the junta and their masters benefits only one group and it certainly aint the majority of the population, can you not see that???

[LannaGuy]

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

She was simply a pretty face who served as a useful puppet for her criminal fugitive brother, who came up with the rice subsidies scheme as a way to effectively buy votes from the "ignorant" masses and line their and their cronies' pockets in the process with fake G-to-G rice deals and various other shenanigans.

 

And when I say "ignorant," I don't mean it perjoratively, but rather simply a statement of fact. Great masses of Thai citizens/voters who pay no attention to what goes on with their government and elected officials, who don't care whether their elected officials break the laws or engage in corruption, so long as someone from the government comes around with $ handouts at election time or via schemes like the rice subsidies.

 

The quotes from the YL supporters waiting outside the court (not yet knowing she had scampered) were pretty telling. As one put it, YL surely hadn't done anything wrong or broken any laws, because the local farmers had gotten more money for their rice. A total non-sequitur, of course, because the legality or illegality of her actions have/had nothing to do with whether farmers got more money for their rice. But that was all they cared about. "Democracy" in action!

 

Really, the only thing that any thinking person ought to be able to say in favor of YL and her tenure as PM is that she was "elected" under Thailand's pretty flawed elections system. Other than that, pretty much a zero except for being a pretty face. Unless of course, you want to include returning the passports and seized assets to her brother, and trying to get legislative amnesty for him and a bunch of other criminals -- which is what ultimately led to her downfall.

 

 

Unlike the Junta who  would NEVER try and get an amnesty... oh wait...

[Just1Voice]

10 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Unlike the Junta who  would NEVER try and get an amnesty... oh wait...

"We're the military!  We're taking over (again).  And this time we grant ourselves total immunity for any and all wrong doings!"  

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Unlike the Junta who  would NEVER try and get an amnesty... oh wait...

 

I never made any comparison between her and them. I simply judged her for what she did and didn't do.

 

Them being bad in many ways doesn't somehow make her good. But not many supposedly educated folks are fawning over the junta and their performance.

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[LannaGuy]

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I never made any comparison between her and them. I simply judged her for what she did and didn't do.

 

Them being bad in many ways doesn't somehow make her good. But not many supposedly educated folks are fawning over the junta and their performance.

 

Fair point and my point was generally about their hypocrisy. Anyhow it is what it is and it will be decades before true democracy gets here.  

[Thian]

7 hours ago, JAG said:

You really don't like the Thai people do you?

Tell us exactly what is it which cements your obvious superiority?

Ah i see, you're one of those who would call people who sell their votes for 500 baht educated ?

And if those same people want to come to BKK and put it all on fire it's also just fine?

 

And of course it's all fine to be corrupt and steal billions of us$ from the country?

 

 

[scorecard]

24 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Fair point and my point was generally about their hypocrisy. Anyhow it is what it is and it will be decades before true democracy gets here.  

 

Strange how you often try to change the point of your post after others have responded.

[LannaGuy]

Just now, scorecard said:

 

Strange how you often try to change the point of your post after others have responded.

Not at all stand by it 100% the hypocrites, who you support, have given themselves an amnesty and posters on here complain about her?  come on you must do better than that

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

Not at all stand by it 100% the hypocrites, who you support, have given themselves an amnesty and posters on here complain about her?  come on you must do better than that

 

Just because someone finds fault with one doesn't mean they love the other. It just so happens that YL is the topic de jour and of this thread.

 

But looking more broadly, unfortunately, Thailand is beset by different factions that all seem mainly interested in enriching themselves and their own interests, and paying little attention to the good of the Thai people or the nation. They're different in various ways, of course, but I wouldn't want to try and compare which one is more odious.

 

[Baerboxer]

12 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Good for them. Guilty? I have no idea. Fair trial? NOPE! 

 

What was unfair about the trial, specifically?

[Puwa]

She made the right decision for herself. She never wanted to lead, was terrible at it, and though elected was obviously a stand-in for her brother. The politics of martyrdom-- a few years as model prisoner serving the poor and wretched, never compromising her beliefs-- would not have appealed to her (but the country would have reveled in her jailhouse celebrity). 

 

Thailand before Thaksin had a lot of problems, but a lot of promise as well. In the 1990s we had a much freer press, stronger civil society, a growing middle class, a remarkable new constitution drafted by thoughtful patriots, and an overall sense that the country was progressing towards a brighter future. These were all assets in confronting antidemocratic, corrupt, or traditionalist barriers to change.

 

Thaksin did immense damage to Thailand's fledgling democracy. He bought off competing politicians in flamboyant displays of patronage (remember the Bentley he presented to Sanan K?). He meddled with the independent agencies established by the constitution to provide checks and balances: anti-corruption commission, national human rights commission, auditor-general. He declared a Duterte-style war on drugs that empowered police to kill suspected drug suspects in the street, and cavalierly ignored the immense damage. Copying Lee Kwan Yew's use of defamation laws to silence critics, he sued a young journalist for 400M baht for repeating on air what had already been published in the papers: ShinSat was making money with T in the PM's chair. Thaksin was quite anti-farang, despite a few nods to the wealthy such as exorbitant visas with benefits. These are the underlying reasons why the so-called "elites" rejected him, not some anti-farmer impulse to oppress and exclude the rural poor.

 

Thailand after Thaksin now has thrice the problems: all the longstanding woes (bad education, economic stagnation, wealth gap, environmental suicide); the addition of Thaksin's populist politics founded on a cult of personality, promising much, delivering little, enriching a few (One Child One Tablet, anyone?); and the huge erosion of civil liberties brought on by the military. 

 

But we don't have thrice the promise or hope or optimism, or even as much as we had before the Shins entered national politics. 

 

Yingluck is and always will be a mere sideshow to this historic tragedy. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mister Fixit]

5 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Well that is easy to answer.

Without the coup ( and the planned disturbances that gave it supposed momentum ) the Thai people would still have an elected and accountable government.

 

Which was screwing them every which way.  

[sjaak327]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I never made any comparison between her and them. I simply judged her for what she did and didn't do.

 

Them being bad in many ways doesn't somehow make her good. But not many supposedly educated folks are fawning over the junta and their performance.

 

You are right, them being bad does not make her good. However, them are not on trial, and she is. The fact they them are not on trail is what makes the trail against Yingluck a political witchhunt and any guilty verdict should and will be considered null void useless. 

 

The law should be applied equally to all, not just to the people you happen to dislike.

[Mister Fixit]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

She was simply a pretty face who served as a useful puppet for her criminal fugitive brother, who came up with the rice subsidies scheme as a way to effectively buy votes from the "ignorant" masses and line their and their cronies' pockets in the process with fake G-to-G rice deals and various other shenanigans.

 

And when I say "ignorant," I don't mean it perjoratively, but rather simply a statement of fact. Great masses of Thai citizens/voters who pay no attention to what goes on with their government and elected officials, who don't care whether their elected officials break the laws or engage in corruption, so long as someone from the government comes around with $ handouts at election time or via schemes like the rice subsidies.

 

The quotes from the YL supporters waiting outside the court (not yet knowing she had scampered) were pretty telling. As one put it, YL surely hadn't done anything wrong or broken any laws, because the local farmers had gotten more money for their rice. A total non-sequitur, of course, because the legality or illegality of her actions have/had nothing to do with whether farmers got more money for their rice. But that was all they cared about. "Democracy" in action!

 

Really, the only thing that any thinking person ought to be able to say in favor of YL and her tenure as PM is that she was "elected" under Thailand's pretty flawed elections system. Other than that, pretty much a zero except for being a pretty face. Unless of course, you want to include returning the passports and seized assets to her brother, and trying to get legislative amnesty for him and a bunch of other criminals -- which is what ultimately led to her downfall.

 

 

 

Spot on.

[LannaGuy]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Just because someone finds fault with one doesn't mean they love the other. It just so happens that YL is the topic de jour and of this thread.

 

But looking more broadly, unfortunately, Thailand is beset by different factions that all seem mainly interested in enriching themselves and their own interests, and paying little attention to the good of the Thai people or the nation. They're different in various ways, of course, but I wouldn't want to try and compare which one is more odious.

 

One was elected t'other was not. One was accountable to the electorate who could vote for another the other votes are non-existent. It is clear-cut.