Britain cannot be blackmailed by EU over exit bill: minister

[KunMatt]

I don't know what you consider facts. I offered 4 links that were authoritative. You've offered nothing but assertions. I guess you hail from oppositeland. 

Not one of your links says it was a "big Brexit promise". At best it was a poorly worded suggestion written on the side of the bus and if you're the sort of person who thinks vague suggestions written on the side of a bus are some sort of campaign promise that has to happen before the conditions it's sets out are met, then I don't know what to tell you.

Excect that Project Fear was full of promises and threats which immediately proved to be lies. People were literally blackmailed into voting for remain. The government sent a biased pro-EU leaflet to everyone in the UK. I see none of you have any issues with that. But "the bus" is the biggest scandal to ever happen.

Again, I'm so beyond bored of having this stupid argument about something which happened well over a year ago with you crybabies who refuse to accept the referendum.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, KunMatt said:

 

Yawn.

It's been well over a year and you are still flogging this dead horse. You got nothing except this. And this is a great big nothingburger. You want to compare that to all the Project Fear threats, how would it stand?

Again, it's pathetic that this is your biggest issue with the leave campaign.

You Remoaners are all the same, a bunch of crybaby traitors who side with the EU over the UK. I'm glad the majority of the country are better people than you and don't just care about themselves in the short term.

 

"Crybaby traitors who side with the EU over the UK". Really? Because we don't tell you what you'd like to hear?. Given your idea of what constitutes facts, I'm not surprised. Remember all those UK traitors who opposed the UK's involvement in the 2nd Iraq war? Good thing they weren't heeded, right?

Edited September 2, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Thongkorn]

The EU keep banging on  about a divorce, Ok lets pool all the goods and split it 50/50 including  the cost of protecting Europe since 1947, also like Poland ask for Some money back after WE rebuilt Germany, at the cost of selling all Britain's Family jewels, Making Britain nearly bankrupt, Which we are still feeling the effects today,

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

The EU keep banging on  about a divorce, Ok lets pool all the goods and split it 50/50 including  the cost of protecting Europe since 1947, also like Poland ask for Some money back after WE rebuilt Germany, at the cost of selling all Britain's Family jewels, Making Britain nearly bankrupt, Which we are still feeling the effects today,

Actually, it would be fairer to blame the USA which treated the UK very badly after WW2. While pouring tons of money and resources into rebuilding Western Europe, it demanded repayment in full of loans it had extended to the UK to fight the war.

[Thongkorn]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, it would be fairer to blame the USA which treated the UK very badly after WW2. While pouring tons of money and resources into rebuilding Western Europe, it demanded repayment in full of loans it had extended to the UK to fight the war.

Most things where purchased on lease lend, by America, On the last day of the War In Europe, The lease lend ships were turned around returning to America, America forgot Britain stood alone for two years, protecting them  from Germany  and its allies, Cannot remember Britain sending them the bill for it,

[aright]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, it would be fairer to blame the USA which treated the UK very badly after WW2. While pouring tons of money and resources into rebuilding Western Europe, it demanded repayment in full of loans it had extended to the UK to fight the war.

World War 11 ruined the British economy and brought the country close to bankruptcy. Best blame the Germans I feel.

 

[Thongkorn]

Just now, aright said:

World War 11 ruined the British economy and brought the country close to bankruptcy. Best blame the Germans I feel.

 

Yes but our so called special friends made a lot of money from Britain , 

[KunMatt]

"Crybaby traitors who side with the EU over the UK". Really? Because we don't tell you what you'd like to hear?. Given your idea of what constitutes facts, I'm not surprised. Remember all those UK traitors who opposed the UK's involvement in the 2nd Iraq war? Good thing they weren't heeded, right?

 

Did we have a vote on whether to invade Iraq? If we did then we would've voted overwhelming not to go, so your analogy is backwards.

 

Blair lied to us and betrayed us all. And what is the traitor Blair's stance on Brexit? It's the exact same as yours, isn't it?

 

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

Did we have a vote on whether to invade Iraq? If we did then we would've voted overwhelming not to go, so your analogy is backwards.

 

Blair lied to us and betrayed us all. And what is the traitor Blair's stance on Brexit? It's the exact same as yours, isn't it?

 

More fiction from you.

"But more than 10 years of opposition is a long time, and many people now remember things differently. Now only 37% of the public say they believed military action against Saddam Hussein was right at the time, instead of the 54% recorded at the time."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/03/remembering-iraq/

[KunMatt]

More fiction from you.
"But more than 10 years of opposition is a long time, and many people now remember things differently. Now only 37% of the public say they believed military action against Saddam Hussein was right at the time, instead of the 54% recorded at the time."
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/03/remembering-iraq/

So you admit Blair is a traitor to the UK and your stance on Brexit is the same as his?

So that makes you?

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, KunMatt said:

 

So you admit Blair is a traitor to the UK and your stance on Brexit is the same as his?

So that makes you?

 

You know the Autobahn, which is widely considered a masterpiece of road building was a project of Hitler's. So by your logic, if you're in favor of beautiful highways, that makes you a Nazi.

[KunMatt]

You know the Autobahn, which is widely considered a masterpiece of road building was a project of Hitler's. So by your logic, if you're in favor of beautiful highways, that makes you a Nazi.

You are terrible at these analogies.

[stag4]

12 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

More fiction from you.

"But more than 10 years of opposition is a long time, and many people now remember things differently. Now only 37% of the public say they believed military action against Saddam Hussein was right at the time, instead of the 54% recorded at the time."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/03/remembering-iraq/

I'm surprised that your quoting polls, didn't seem to be too reliable at the time of the referendum, did they!

 

[KunMatt]

I'm surprised that your quoting polls, didn't seem to be too reliable at the time of the referendum, did they!
 

Hilarious when people use YouGov as if they mean anything, especially in a Brexit thread.

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

You are terrible at these analogies.

 

Let me put it into small words for you.

Hitler, a bad man, supported building beautiful highways which many people think is a good thing. But since he's a bad man, it must be a bad thing.

Tony Blair, a bad man, supports staying in the EU which many people think is a good thing. But since he's a bad man, it must be a bad thing.

 

Apparently your idea of analysis is to say "You are terrible at analogies without any explanation why.

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[stag4]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Better still if the EU would address some of the issues that resulted in the brexit vote - especially as it's not only the UK electorate that are unhappy.

 

If the EU recognised the things that needed to be changed - and changed them (instead of relying on fear tactics and demanding ridiculous sums of money before talking about anything else.... ) - it would make it far easier for UK politicians to sell 'remain' to the electorate.

You can't negotiate change with these EU gangsters, Cameron tried and got nowhere.

It is not in their interests to give Britain a good deal as that would cause more dissent in remaining states, encouraging others to leave and get the same deal. They will try their best to inflict as much pain on the UK as possible as a warning to others that may dare to want out.

 

Anyway without Britains contributions they are facing a huge black hole in their finances and the whole political project may collapse.

[nabbie]

6 hours ago, KunMatt said:

 

But we've paid our bill. We've paid everything and more for the last 40 years.

To fit in with your analogy, it would be like going drinking in the same bar in Thailand everyday and spending a ton of money there every day. So the owner wants to renovate his bar based on your potential spending in his bar over the next decade. But at some point you tell him that you are leaving Thailand and going back to your home country and he hits you with a bill for what you would've spent in his bar over the next 10 years because he still wants to spend the money fixing up his bar.

Except instead of an itemised statement of what the bill is based on, it just says "100 billion Euros" on a scrap piece of paper.

The owner should not gamble that his potential customer will continue next 10 years. That is his problem - nothing to do with the customer. 

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, stag4 said:

I'm surprised that your quoting polls, didn't seem to be too reliable at the time of the referendum, did they!

 

You're confused. The polls had it very close. Neck in neck. It was the pundits and the prediction markets who got it wrong.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/06/polls-versus-prediction-markets

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/25/upshot/why-the-surprise-over-brexit-dont-blame-the-polls.html

[ilostmypassword]

19 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

Hilarious when people use YouGov as if they mean anything, especially in a Brexit thread.

 

Once again  you confuse your assertions with facts. Show me a better source.

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

Hilarious when people use YouGov as if they mean anything, especially in a Brexit thread.

 

But of course, if you're saying that most people in the UK opposed it, then what does that say about Theresa May? Or David Davis? Or Boris Johnson? They all supported the war against, by your assertion, the overwhelming majority of the British people. And yet these traitors are now supporting Brexit.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

From what i have read the issue regarding the divorce issue is the EU have not actually come up with a figure and explained how they came to that figure.

 

And as they are so corrupt that their account have not been signed off for many years, how can they give an accurate figure?

 

Storm out? It appears that the EU won't discuss further points until we agree to pay an unknown amount. Would you do that?

They want to agree the principles on which the sum will be determined. I see no reason why they don't produce illustrations of how the calculations would work out though.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

You just can't help yourself can you?

 

Back on the old "numpties" tack.

 

Those of us who don't subscribe to your view, and dared to vote in a way of which you disapprove are "numpties".

 

A lot of us "numpties"  think you are a (four letter verb turned into an adjective) arrogant (another four letter word, widely believed to be of Anglo Saxon origin). 

 

I hope that this comment is sufficiently veiled to allow you to exercise your academic superiority (of which I seem to recall you rather like to remind us) in "decoding it".

 

If it offends, feel free to scamper along bleating to the mods about a "numpty" calling you rude names.

Haha!

 

Don't be so touchy (however, if the cap fits...)

 

Not all Brexiteers are numpties (silly people). Some are cunning selfish types who can see a way to make a fast buck. Others are xenophobic racists. There are others but I'll spare you.

 

I stopped using the word numpty even though I consider it a harmless jest. However it has been picked up by others. I still feel it is an appropriate phrase.

 

Brexit is indeed negatively correlated with educational achievement. Don't have a chip on your shoulder though, you're probably an outlier.

 

Brexit is also correlated with age and I'm 63. I guess that makes me an outlier.

 

I'm very thick skinned and can take any brick bats you care to use. So don't worry too much about hurting my feelings!

 

Maybe you would care to demonstrate that you are not a n*mpt* by explaining the huge tangible upside from Brexit.

 

I'll have another cognac while I'm waiting ?

 

(BTW -ing generally indicates a gerund not an adjective)

Edited September 2, 2017 by Grouse
Pedantry

[aright]

Jacob Rees-Mogg..........you have to love him

 

 http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/849149/Brexit-news-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-divorce-bill-blackmail-Juncker-European-Union-video

[chang50]

6 hours ago, KunMatt said:

 

 

It wasn't a big Brexit promise, it wasn't even a Brexit promise, a suggestion cannot be a promise, the only people who pretend it was are Remoaners just for the sake of arguing. It was a suggestion and one which I think everyone agrees with. Let's stop paying the EU fee and fund the NHS. Who wouldn't want that?

Have we stopped paying the EU fee yet? Have we left the EU yet? So even if it was a promise how could it even have happened get?

And is agreeing to pay an extortionate punishment bill going to help us towards helping the NHS in any way?

What I find sad is that Remoaners want Brexit to fail so badly that they are willing to throw the UK under a bus just to prove a point so this is why they are siding with the EU over the UK about extorting 100 billion Euros out of us. You know what that makes you, don't you? I'll give you a clue; it rhymes with "crater".

 

Since it is now considered fair game to generalize all remainers as 'traitors' I guess you would not have a problem with me describing all brexiteers as 'racists'.It wouldn't be true of course but why would that matter to you?

[JAG]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Haha!

 

Don't be so touchy (however, if the cap fits...)

 

Not all Brexiteers are numpties (silly people). Some are cunning selfish types who can see a way to make a fast buck. Others are xenophobic racists. There are others but I'll spare you.

 

I stopped using the word numpty even though I consider it a harmless jest. However it has been picked up by others. I still feel it is an appropriate phrase.

 

Brexit is indeed negatively correlated with educational achievement. Don't have a chip on your shoulder though, you're probably an outlier.

 

Brexit is also correlated with age and I'm 63. I guess that makes me an outlier.

 

I'm very thick skinned and can take any brick bats you care to use. So don't worry too much about hurting my feelings!

 

Maybe you would care to demonstrate that you are not a n*mpt* by explaining the huge tangible upside from Brexit.

 

I'll have another cognac while I waiting ?

You know well my reasons for wanting the UK to leave the EU, we discussed them at some length months ago. In summary I think that the the economic, fiscal, political and judicial system which the EU is developing is not for the UK, and I do not wish for my country to be part of it. I accept that there may be economic "penalties", downsides if you like, to  our disengagement, but I also think that in the longer term we will benefit from not being in the grip of the sclerotic political and economic bureaucracy which holds sway in Brussels. That does not make me, or anyone else who has their own reasons for wishing to leave the EU a xenophobic racist, or a cunning  selfish person.

 

What you do, with your talk of "numpties", is to trivialise the views of all those with whom you do not agree. You suggest that they are fools, who should be ignored, that's why I accuse you of arrogance. Like you, I'm not particularly thin skinned, am approaching my sixties (rather too quickly) and would say that I am reasonably well educated. I have also seen what happens when political discourse, both within the UK and elsewhere on the continent of Europe falls back on the assumption that one party is inherently more intelligent, better educated and somehow morally superior to the other(s). It results in an often bloody mess, and interestingly enough those who regard themselves as the betters usually end up displaying the traits you ascribe to "Brexiteers", xenophobia, racism and selfishness.

 

I think on balance though that there is little point in arguing with you, just about everything that there is to be said about the whole Brexit business has been said, many times. I have the distinct impression that (although I accept your commitment to EU membership) , your are mainly driven by a mischievous wish to irritate (wind up?) those who you know your comments will "get to". So, as I said, I will not be bothering to argue with you. 

 

Maybe next time you are tempted to talk about "numpties" or use other clever derogatory phrases you might ponder on how people think of you when you do so? It is a two way street.

 

Enjoy your cognac.

 

Goodnight.

[aright]

Is Jacob Rees-Mogg a reborn Charles Hawtry

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, chang50 said:

Since it is now considered fair game to generalize all remainers as 'traitors' I guess you would not have a problem with me describing all brexiteers as 'racists'.It wouldn't be true of course but why would that matter to you?

Well, considering that dislike of "others" was one of the chief motivating forces of Brexit, it's more likely that the Brexit supporters are racist than remainers are traitors.. Unless somehow opposition to Brexit increases the likelihood that you are also selling state secrets or plotting the violent overthrow of the government.

Edited September 2, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, JAG said:

You know well my reasons for wanting the UK to leave the EU, we discussed them at some length months ago. In summary I think that the the economic, fiscal, political and judicial system which the EU is developing is not for the UK, and I do not wish for my country to be part of it. I accept that there may be economic "penalties", downsides if you like, to  our disengagement, but I also think that in the longer term we will benefit from not being in the grip of the sclerotic political and economic bureaucracy which holds sway in Brussels. That does not make me, or anyone else who has their own reasons for wishing to leave the EU a xenophobic racist, or a cunning  selfish person.

 

What you do, with your talk of "numpties", is to trivialise the views of all those with whom you do not agree. You suggest that they are fools, who should be ignored, that's why I accuse you of arrogance. Like you, I'm not particularly thin skinned, am approaching my sixties (rather too quickly) and would say that I am reasonably well educated. I have also seen what happens when political discourse, both within the UK and elsewhere on the continent of Europe falls back on the assumption that one party is inherently more intelligent, better educated and somehow morally superior to the other(s). It results in an often bloody mess, and interestingly enough those who regard themselves as the betters usually end up displaying the traits you ascribe to "Brexiteers", xenophobia, racism and selfishness.

 

I think on balance though that there is little point in arguing with you, just about everything that there is to be said about the whole Brexit business has been said, many times. I have the distinct impression that (although I accept your commitment to EU membership) , your are mainly driven by a mischievous wish to irritate (wind up?) those who you know your comments will "get to". So, as I said, I will not be bothering to argue with you. 

 

Maybe next time you are tempted to talk about "numpties" or use other clever derogatory phrases you might ponder on how people think of you when you do so? It is a two way street.

 

Enjoy your cognac.

 

Goodnight.

So in conclusion, you are prepared for tangible losses in exchange for unquantified intangible perceived benefits.

 

Great! My conclusion stands!

 

No more questions.

[KunMatt]

Since it is now considered fair game to generalize all remainers as 'traitors' I guess you would not have a problem with me describing all brexiteers as 'racists'.It wouldn't be true of course but why would that matter to you?

 

Anybody from the UK who sides with the EU when they are clearly thing to extort the UK is a traitor, right?

 

But which race are you saying Brexiteers are racist against??

 

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

Anybody who sides with the EU when they are clearly thing to extort the UK is a traitor, right?

But which race are you saying Brexiteers are racist against??

 

Surely the huge economic upside of Brexit exceeds 5% of 1 years GDP? So pay up and move on....If not, what's the point?

 

Pay them with 10 year gilts?

 

As for English racism, I think that applies to any non-Anglo Saxon with or without a British passport ?

Edited September 2, 2017 by Grouse