Proof Of Income - Marriage Visa

[markwhite]

I'm planning for marriage now and looking at the Affirmation of Freedom to Marry, which I have to get notarised at the UK Embassy in Bangkok. On this there is a section where I state my occupation and income, but nowhere does it state what proof is needed to support this.

I'm living off savings in the UK - I just transfer over what I need and when, and get it through the ATM. I describe myself as retired, though I'm well under retirement age so am not eligible to receive a pension. A month ago I decided to transfer a lump sum of more than 40k baht each month to try to use that as my basic for proof of income when I apply for a marriage visa - there will be 3 consecutive monthly deposits of 1000ukp.

But if I'm affirming that I am (essentially) retired and am giving myself an income of 1000ukp a month and that is notarised by the embassy and translated and all of the other doings, will I end up with something that can be used as proof of income for the marriage visa? And am I being accurate enough to not be outright lying on the affirmation?

What haven't I considered? Suddenly it seems like it might be much easier than I thought, which makes me think I'm missing something...

TIA,

Mark...

[kriswillems]

I don't believe that just transferring your savings from one country to the other is going to be considered as a source of income. You'll need to have a prove of income stamped by your embassy. You could try to get your proof of monthly money transfer stamped by the embassy, but it's not sure the immigration officer will fall for that trick. There's a small chance that the immigration officer will be impressed by the stamps of the embassy and maybe his/her English is not good enough to interpret the provided documents and to notice you're just transferring your savings.

[Krub]

I'm planning for marriage now and looking at the Affirmation of Freedom to Marry, which I have to get notarised at the UK Embassy in Bangkok. On this there is a section where I state my occupation and income, but nowhere does it state what proof is needed to support this.

I'm living off savings in the UK - I just transfer over what I need and when, and get it through the ATM. I describe myself as retired, though I'm well under retirement age so am not eligible to receive a pension. A month ago I decided to transfer a lump sum of more than 40k baht each month to try to use that as my basic for proof of income when I apply for a marriage visa - there will be 3 consecutive monthly deposits of 1000ukp.

But if I'm affirming that I am (essentially) retired and am giving myself an income of 1000ukp a month and that is notarised by the embassy and translated and all of the other doings, will I end up with something that can be used as proof of income for the marriage visa? And am I being accurate enough to not be outright lying on the affirmation?

What haven't I considered? Suddenly it seems like it might be much easier than I thought, which makes me think I'm missing something...

TIA,

Mark...

You need to show to immigration a letter from Embassy stating that your income is more than 40k per month.

The UL Embassy needs to see some proof of that income

Immigration will want to see the Embassy letter + maybe the suporting documents

I is quite simple

[Krub]

I don't believe that just transferring your savings from one country to the other is going to be considered as a source of income. You'll need to have a prove of income stamped by your embassy. You could try to get your proof of monthly money transfer stamped by the embassy, but it's not sure the immigration officer will fall for that trick. There's a small chance that the immigration officer will be impressed by the stamps of the embassy and maybe his/her English is not good enough to interpret the provided documents and to notice you're just transferring your savings.

Immigratiom will want to see an Embassy letter if income is from aborad

Suporting documents only will not be enough for immigration but will do for Embassy (to get the letter)

He need sto satisfy Embassy that he has income to issue the letter

Edited May 9, 2007 by Krub

[markwhite]

Immigratiom will want to see an Embassy letter if income is from aborad

Suporting documents only will not be enough for immigration but will do for Embassy (to get the letter)

He need sto satisfy Embassy that he has income to issue the letter

Thanks for quick replies all.

It seemed from previous posts other people had made that it's the usual "It might work, but it might not" and that's what you're (all) saying.

So on the question of completion of the Affirmation - do I be honest and say 'retired, no income' or might that cause problems with the marriage authorisation being issued?

[kriswillems]

On the visa application you would need to fill in: stay with Thai wife.

You're not asking for a visa based on retirement.

If you need to fill in your job, you could state something like "living from investment", income 40K (or more) baht. That's not really lying. I am not sure the embassy and/or immigration will fall for it.

What you're trying to do is to circumvent the Thai law and it will probably not work.

Edited May 9, 2007 by kriswillems

[Crossy]

When it comes to visa extension time you'll need to show an income somehow. How about opening a second UK bank account and setting up a monthly standing order into it with the message 'Investment portfolio' or something similar or even just the name of a company. Give the embassy the statement from this account showing regular transfers of over 40k per month tagged with something that looks like income and presto, letter in your sticky mitt

BTW the salary on the affirmation of freedom to marry is nothing to do with visa extension income (you need an embassy letter for that, see above) it's just some pointless data that will be stored somewhere forever, put a realistic value near what you actually make from your investements etc.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Crossy

[astral]

The affirmation is just that.

A statement that certain facts are true.

Lie at you peril.

Income requires proof as Crossy has said.

Regular interest from savings paid to a specified account might be sufficient,

but I very much doubt that living off capital will be.

[englishoak]

so what people here are saying is even though you might have enough savings lets say 300k earning apprx 15k a year interest which would probably be annual. Or a house of approx the same value earning similar rent, that would be considered as not meeting the criteria of 40k per month income unless it was tranferred monthly ? It's not realy a long term winner.

I accept the op could probably fig around and get a letter from the embassy but what about in years to come?. Computer systems in LOS will get better and talk.

A multi visa option is the way to go IMO at the mo and hope it settles down to a sensible system in the future ( which i'm sceptical about )

[SweGuava]

I had the same problem a few months ago when I lost my job.

I had the required income, from the internet, and the embassy was more than happy to write a certificate of income that the Immigration accepted without any questions whatsoever.

[markwhite]

I don't believe that just transferring your savings from one country to the other is going to be considered as a source of income. You'll need to have a prove of income stamped by your embassy. You could try to get your proof of monthly money transfer stamped by the embassy, but it's not sure the immigration officer will fall for that trick. There's a small chance that the immigration officer will be impressed by the stamps of the embassy and maybe his/her English is not good enough to interpret the provided documents and to notice you're just transferring your savings.

I've read in this forum that some people have had success with making transfers to their accounts internally and claiming it as income, getting the embassy to stampt it and getting immigration to accept the embassy's say-so via a translated copy of the embassy's stamped letter. Maybe I will still try, but I'm getting lots of opinions from this thread that will help me decide.

[markwhite]

The UL Embassy needs to see some proof of that income

Will three months bank statements showing the same amount hitting the account on the same day be enough for them do you know?

[markwhite]

Suporting documents only will not be enough for immigration but will do for Embassy (to get the letter)

It's coming down to the question: what supporting evidence is enough?

[markwhite]

On the visa application you would need to fill in: stay with Thai wife.

You're not asking for a visa based on retirement.

I didn't make it clear in the original post: I'll be applying for a marriage visa, not a retirement visa.

From the pinned post in this topic:

12 month validity, multi entry non-immigrant visa: pre-obtained at a Royal Thai Embassy/Consulate (usually) in your home country and will result in the holder obtaining a 90 day 'permission to stay' stamp upon entry. Each time the holder enters the Kingdom whilst the visa is valid, he/she will obtain a further 90 day 'permission to stay stamp'. Such visas can be issued for students/work/family etc. but normally require supporting documentation

So it's the supporting documentation as far as being able to prove income (or not being able to as the case may be) that one of my questions has become.

If you need to fill in your job, you could state something like "living from investment", income 40K (or more) baht.

And some people are saying that's fine for the Affirmation of Freedom to Marry as this information is a non-material disclosure. Which is one question of mine satisfactorily answered.

That's not really lying. I am not sure the embassy and/or immigration will fall for it.

It's the proof of income for the embassy that seems to be key now.

What you're trying to do is to circumvent the Thai law and it will probably not work.

Well I'm trying to establish what is considered as income. I could have income of 1mil baht a month if I wanted to send a standing order to my dad for him to send it back a few days later. It's 'money coming in' to my household, but is it really income?

If income is from an employer's or accountant's reference, or from a pension statement, then that I cannot do without obtaining a completely false employer's reference, which I would agree is not so legal.

[markwhite]

How about opening a second UK bank account and setting up a monthly standing order into it with the message 'Investment portfolio'

I do the transfer each month, well I did my first one last month, but haven't put a descriptive reference on it. Definitely one to think about - cheers.

BTW the salary on the affirmation of freedom to marry is nothing to do with visa extension income (you need an embassy letter for that, see above) it's just some pointless data that will be stored somewhere forever, put a realistic value near what you actually make from your investements etc.

Cool - I'll be honest on that and live with a clear conscience then :-)

[markwhite]

The affirmation is just that.

A statement that certain facts are true.

Lie at you peril.

:-)

Looks like I don't need to.

Income requires proof as Crossy has said.

Regular interest from savings paid to a specified account might be sufficient,

but I very much doubt that living off capital will be.

After the change to the 400k rule last year, I was pretty sure than just saying I have a lump sum wouldn't pass. But it still looks like providing myself with an income somehow might be enough to get the embassy's stamp on a letter.

[markwhite]

A multi visa option is the way to go IMO at the mo and hope it settles down to a sensible system in the future ( which i'm sceptical about )

What do you mean by 'multi-visa' option?

It looks like I'm either on a 3 month single entry non-imm with a reason of supporting a family, or a 12 month multi try non-imm with proof of income, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of 'prrof of income' here now.

[markwhite]

I had the required income, from the internet, and the embassy was more than happy to write a certificate of income that the Immigration accepted without any questions whatsoever.

When you say you had the required income from the internet, did you just show them hard-copies of your on-line statements showing the salary of your previous job?

[markwhite]

It looks like I'm either on a 3 month single entry non-imm with a reason of supporting a family, or a 12 month multi try non-imm with proof of income, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of 'prrof of income' here now.

And just looking at www.mfa.gov.th it looks like I need proof of income for a 90 day non-imm O visa too.

So I'm either here on 60 day single entry tourist visas, or I get proof of income somehow...

[lopburi3]

It looks like I'm either on a 3 month single entry non-imm with a reason of supporting a family, or a 12 month multi try non-imm with proof of income, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of 'prrof of income' here now.

And just looking at www.mfa.gov.th it looks like I need proof of income for a 90 day non-imm O visa too.

So I'm either here on 60 day single entry tourist visas, or I get proof of income somehow...

Please provide quote of what you have read and a link. There has never been any such requirement so I am very anxious to see what you have read. Thanks.

[Paul L]

Mark,

I'm just going through the visa extension thing. I do mine at Nong Khai, 27th April was my last visit to immigration. We have a joint account with the Bangkok Bank in Khonkaen, I got the letters from the bank and the bank books prove a monthly income well in excess of the required 40K. Immigration would not accept this, I had to prove I was "working" and they wanted a letter stamped from the British Embassy. Now it gets complicated. I work for a subsidiary of a Japanese company based out of USA, working on rotation in Brazil and paid from Italy, nothing to do with the UK at all, and I've never been to the UK (except in transit) in years. I've got a 3 page contact of employment that really isn't worth the paper it's wrote on. I take said contract to the British Embassy and ask them to stamp it "Seen by". I picked it up the next morning after paying the fee and presented it to immigration. No problem now they are happy!! Immigration are only looking for a "Stamp" regardless of what it proves (in my case) plus banks books and marriage cert.

Hope this helps

Paul

[hill16]

Hi Mark,

I think I may be in a similar situation to you so f.y.i. - For the Affirmation of Freedom to Marry and supporting documentation, I was told by my Embassy to say that I am living from my savings as proof of which you can show an up-to-date bank account statement (assuming it is a reasonable amount). I am not worrying about proof of income of 40k baht per month yet because I am trying to get a Multiple Entry non-immigrant visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen. This will give me 1 year in Thailand, exiting and re-entering every 90 days if I wish to maximise my time in Thailand, with the possibility of an extra 3 months if I exit and re-enter just before the 1 year visa expires. As another poster said it's probably the best option at the moment until we see if things settle down. Also, it is the best option in my opinion if you are not already in Thailand but wish to get married and spend at least the first year of marriage here and if you are not yet near retirement age.

I hope this is of some help.

Regards and good luck,

Hill16

[englishoak]

Immigration are only looking for a "Stamp" regardless of what it proves (in my case) plus banks books and marriage cert.

Quite ridiculous and this is the real problem. Total confusion how hard can it realy be to sit down and write a simple guide of requirements and circulate it to all the immigration offices, then make sure a senior officer visits all locations and makes sure they understand and work to that single clear set of guidelines.

I mean with all the people with degrees working in Mc donalds and 7 - 11 you'd think that there would be no shotage of brains to at least run a simple system.

Edited May 10, 2007 by englishoak

[SweGuava]

I had the required income, from the internet, and the embassy was more than happy to write a certificate of income that the Immigration accepted without any questions whatsoever.

When you say you had the required income from the internet, did you just show them hard-copies of your on-line statements showing the salary of your previous job?

I showed the embassy copies of the monthly cheques and the receipts from K Bank that the money had been transferred into my account here in Thailand.

Based on that they wrote me a certificate of income from abroad.

Immigration accepted that without any questions. I had all the bank receipts with me too, but they didn't want to look at them at all. They said the only paper they needed was the one from the embassy. (Swedish Embassy btw)

[markwhite]

Please provide quote of what you have read and a link. There has never been any such requirement so I am very anxious to see what you have read. Thanks.

I got the website wrong - www.mfa.go.th not gov.th

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2489

Under section "3. Non-immigrant visa"

Under "Documents required"

(quote)

- Evidence of adequate finance ( 20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family )

[markwhite]

I've got a 3 page contact of employment that really isn't worth the paper it's wrote on. I take said contract to the British Embassy and ask them to stamp it "Seen by". I picked it up the next morning after paying the fee and presented it to immigration. No problem now they are happy!!

If I were to get something like said contract, I'd be lying through my teeth, something I'd like to avoid if possible. But thanks for taking the time to reply.

[markwhite]

I am not worrying about proof of income of 40k baht per month yet because I am trying to get a Multiple Entry non-immigrant visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen.

This is the visa that I'm asking about. From the link I just posted in answer to lopburi3's question, it states that to get a non-imm visa, you need proof of income.

Whether the website carries up to date info or not, I don't know, which is why I'm asking the experts here.

If you do get the visa, will you post more details of what was involved?

[markwhite]

I showed the embassy copies of the monthly cheques and the receipts from K Bank that the money had been transferred into my account here in Thailand.

Based on that they wrote me a certificate of income from abroad.

Now that's *real* interesting, because it's the sort of answer I was hoping someone would give :-)

It still seems like it's worth a try. If the embassy dude is on the ball that day and wants to give me the third degree about the nature of my income, then maybe it will fail. But if it's someone who looks at three bank statements and is happy to stamp the letter, it could work.

Thanks for this one :-)

[Badbanker]

I showed the embassy copies of the monthly cheques and the receipts from K Bank that the money had been transferred into my account here in Thailand.

Based on that they wrote me a certificate of income from abroad.

Now that's *real* interesting, because it's the sort of answer I was hoping someone would give :-)

It still seems like it's worth a try. If the embassy dude is on the ball that day and wants to give me the third degree about the nature of my income, then maybe it will fail. But if it's someone who looks at three bank statements and is happy to stamp the letter, it could work.

Thanks for this one :-)

At the embassy of hel_l the other day, someone came in and requested a Statutory Declaration as to his retired pension income.  The consul signed and after the person left the consul said to me that she was not sure that Immigration really knew that she had no proof of the autheticity of the documents presented and that she was only witnessing the signature.

The consul said to me that she hoped that the people that sign these statutory declarations have read the condition at the bottom of the document a scanned copy I have attached.  I think every embassy has one of these!  Lie on a statutory declaration at your own peril!

Badbanker

[lopburi3]

I am not worrying about proof of income of 40k baht per month yet because I am trying to get a Multiple Entry non-immigrant visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen.

This is the visa that I'm asking about. From the link I just posted in answer to lopburi3's question, it states that to get a non-imm visa, you need proof of income.

Whether the website carries up to date info or not, I don't know, which is why I'm asking the experts here.

If you do get the visa, will you post more details of what was involved?

It says no such thing. You are required to have funds to support your stay for the period of the entry. For 30 day entry without visa it is 10k and for 60 day tourist visa it is 20k for single person. This has nothing to do with income. It is spending cash.