Rescuers Seek Rescue From Other Rescuers

[sriracha john]

100 Ruam Katanyu rescuers rally following fight, shooting incidents

About 100 rescuers held a demonstration at a Bangkok petrol station early Sunday morning after their colleagues were shot at by rescuers from a rival foundation.

The rally took place at 3:20 am inside the Petronas petrol station on Sukhapibal 2 Road in Bung Kum district.

While they were rallying inside the petrol station, their rival rescuers from the Siam Ruam Jai Foundation drove their vehicles around the area.

The Ruam Katanyu rescuers demanded police to take legal action against Siam Ruam Jai rescuers who shot and injured two Ruam Katanyu rescuers Saturday night.

The Ruam Katanyu rescuers said a group of over 10 Siam Ruam Jai beat up a Ruam Katanyu rescuer after he rescued a man from a road accident and was about to send the accident victim to a hospital.

Police intervened in the fight and the Siam Ruam Jai rescuers backed off.

But while the Ruam Katanyu rescuers were taking the accident victim to a hospital, a group of Siam Ruam Jai staff followed and opened fire at them twice, injuring two Ruam Katanyu rescuers.

The Ruam Katanyu rescuers ended their rally after police promised to investigate and bring the wrongdoers to justice.

- The Nation

[Mai Krap]

Who is going to stand up to these scum bags? When is Thailand going to get real ambulances and actually train first responders? What happens to all the money Red Cross gives for such training? This situation desperately needs to be addressed!

[naka]

GHOUL's more likely

No way will you ever get to the hospital with your cash still in your pockets.

Angels of mercy in Thai society ? ... Naaaa.

Naka.

Edited September 16, 2007 by naka

[Mid]

Rescuers Seek Rescue From Other Rescuers, the state of Thailand's ambulance services

[sriracha john]

Two Rescuer Foundations Fight to Rival for Injured

Rescuers from two rescuer foundations, Ruamkatanyu and Siam Ruamjai, fought late last night after trying to rescue injured victims from a car accident.

The police revealed two rescuers from the Ruamkatanyoo Foundation were shot and injured by authorities of its rival Siam Ruamjai on Saturday night. The police say the two groups fought to aid an injured victim from a car accident in Bueng Koom area of Meenburi District.

One of the injured rescuers, Pratuan Kerdsri from Ruamkatanyu Foundation, revealed to the police he was attempting to reach for the injured victim, but was hampered by about ten rescuers from the Siam Ruamjai Foundation counterpart.

An argument occured before the two groups began fighting and Pratuan was beat up. Police intervened in the fighting, however, shortly after rescuers from the Siam Ruamjai Foundation opened fire at Pratuan and his colleagues, injuring him and his team mate while they were going to send the victim to the hospital.

More than 100 Ruamkatanyu rescuers staged a rally at the Petronas Patrol Station on Sukapibarn2 Road in Buengkoom late last night. The police officers controlled the situation after finding the fight between the two rival groups might recur.

The police revealed the rally ended after the police vowed to bring the wrongdoers into justice.

- Thailand Outlook

[TAWP]

"The police say the two groups fought to aid an injured victim from a car accident in Bueng Koom area of Meenburi District."

Seriously, this is pathetic...

How about no-one with proper training ever get licensed and only authorised organisations can work with this? I mean, random [payed] hooligans showing up at accidents to drag people out of cars isn't always the best help...

[lazeeboy]

"The police say the two groups fought to aid an injured victim from a car accident in Bueng Koom area of Meenburi District."

Seriously, this is pathetic...

How about no-one with proper training ever get licensed and only authorised organisations can work with this? I mean, random [payed] hooligans showing up at accidents to drag people out of cars isn't always the best help...

well they are fighting ,someone lays dying on the floor ,unbelievable ,only in thailand....

[OlRedEyes]

Another sad comment on morality in Thailand.

[Tony Clifton]

This way, they all get to be on the newspaper's front page, they'll be pointing fingers at each other instead of at a body on the road.

The element of competition has no business in these outdated emergency response services. Some rescue trucks are so rusty you'd surely need tetanus shots for simply riding in the back with open wounds. Siam Paragon, The Emporium, airports, expensive cars everywhere on a fairly well developed modern road system, millions of tourists being part of the economy and on and on. Just one more example of needed and neglected basic infrastructure.

[Artisi]

Ambulance service - ha ha pull the other one.

[Gravelrash]

It truly is deplorable. Read somewhere about a Thai lady who after an accident was taken to a private hospital. Somehow they got her property signed over to cover bills in excess of THB100,000 which has of course bankrupted them. Her father complained as to why the rescuers would take a poor person to a private hospital? Well, certainly a few motivations come to mind.

[ColPyat]

The old tirades against rescue foundations and their volonteers ...

Nobody says that all is in order, and that there is not much to be improved upon, but these foundations are the only functioning rescue system in Thailand. The irony here especially is, that while you rant against them, these volunteers have been busy last night in Phuket getting injured and dead passengers out of the airplane catastrophe.

These volunteers do not get paid, often have to buy their own equipment themselves, and often risk their lives trying to help.

[ColPyat]

In this thread from last year, there are some factual posts (and unfortunately lots of uninformed rants and tirades):

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

[Mid]

the unfortunate fact is that there was enough for all at Phuket ................................

[TAWP]

The old tirades against rescue foundations and their volonteers ...

Listen, it's very simple: If you are a rescue-worker you rescue wounded or distressed people. You don't bring firearms and shoot OTHER rescue workers. Why on earth would you fight over who gets to work? Especially if everyone does it for free.

Something doesn't ring right.

[TAWP]

From the other thread: "Mr. Niroot, who has donned the organization's distinctive jumpsuit uniform for four years, finds great satisfaction in a grim job that earns him 6,000 baht a month, about $135."

Hardly for free. He makes more then some of the workers we have.

So now comes the question: Why would anyone fight? Do they get payed per body they claim?

No, the thread says:

"Many members of the organization are volunteers who believe the work can help them accumulate karma for physical protection in this life and improve their next incarnation."

Yes, fighting and shooting others must give great karma.

"While many in Thailand suggest more worldly motivations for the fights over bodies, Por Tek Tung employees react with indignation at any suggestion of pillage. Thais often conserve a considerable portion of their wealth in thick gold necklaces, but few bodies arrive at morgues with jewelry of any kind."

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. Thiefs in jumpsuits.

Edited September 17, 2007 by TAWP

[ColPyat]

The old tirades against rescue foundations and their volonteers ...

Listen, it's very simple: If you are a rescue-worker you rescue wounded or distressed people. You don't bring firearms and shoot OTHER rescue workers. Why on earth would you fight over who gets to work? Especially if everyone does it for free.

Something doesn't ring right.

Unfortunately it is not very simple. I don't want to repeat my posts from last year, so please read them, and see how i answered then.

Yes, there are many things that are not right there. But this is Thailand - a developing nation with many problems. Many of the areas these foundations work in are very dodgy neighborhoods, and being somewhat armed is not a bad idea, especially when everybody else is.

In the years i have been with the Por Teck Tueng there were more than a few incidents when we received somewhat incorrect radio calls, and accidentally went into some nasty situations where gangs were in the process of fighting each other, and did not want to be disturbed in that wholesome activity, and suddenly turned on us.

It would be nice if there would be more rule of the law here, but what do you expect in a country where staging a military coup is still a "legitimate" change of government?

[TAWP]

You manage to turn it into slagging off a coup against your hero. Amazing.

[ColPyat]

"While many in Thailand suggest more worldly motivations for the fights over bodies, Por Tek Tung employees react with indignation at any suggestion of pillage. Thais often conserve a considerable portion of their wealth in thick gold necklaces, but few bodies arrive at morgues with jewelry of any kind."

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. Thiefs in jumpsuits.

These two comments are uninformed rubbish. Of course the bodies don't arrive with their gold in the morgue. The possessions of the corpses are given to the police, by law.

The foundations have mostly volunteers, but some foundations, like the Por Teck Tueng, have also employees on monthly salary. They are recognisable by their yellow suits (and some in light blue uniforms). The base though is the thousands of volonteers (Por Teck Tueng blue, Ruamkatanyu green).

[Mid]

ColPyat ,

your way out there on this one ,

there's no excuse for the actions in the OP ,

why you would even try to defend here is beyond me .

[Tony Clifton]

"While many in Thailand suggest more worldly motivations for the fights over bodies, Por Tek Tung employees react with indignation at any suggestion of pillage. Thais often conserve a considerable portion of their wealth in thick gold necklaces, but few bodies arrive at morgues with jewelry of any kind."

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. Thiefs in jumpsuits.

These two comments are uninformed rubbish. Of course the bodies don't arrive with their gold in the morgue. The possessions of the corpses are given to the police, by law.

How comforting...

The foundations have mostly volunteers, but some foundations, like the Por Teck Tueng, have also employees on monthly salary. They are recognisable by their yellow suits (and some in light blue uniforms). The base though is the thousands of volonteers (Por Teck Tueng blue, Ruamkatanyu green).

Why don't these organisations ever push together to become one uniform service throughout the country, no wars between crews, one uniform working under one coordinated dispatch service? P-R-O-F-I-T

While some are surely in it out of good heart, the present system allows for way to many in quest of stardom, heroism or profit under many forms.

There's just no excuse. Even hospitals are known to frequently rip off people either by over charging or dispensing unneeded medication for profit. Too many rescue team organizations are bottom dwellers along with others using the medical system for personal gain.

[ColPyat]

Why don't these organisations ever push together to become one uniform service throughout the country, no wars between crews, one uniform working under one coordinated dispatch service? P-R-O-F-I-T

While some are surely in it out of good heart, the present system allows for way to many in quest of stardom, heroism or profit under many forms.

There's just no excuse. Even hospitals are known to frequently rip off people either by over charging or dispensing unneeded medication for profit. Too many rescue team organizations are bottom dwellers along with others using the medical system for personal gain.

Yes, this is absolutely true.

But like so many things - it is easier said than done. These foundations have a history, their separate identities, and there is also a very strong religious element. Don't forget - the basics of the foundations did not start with rescue, but with the care taking of unclaimed corpses, including collection, religious rites and funeral. The rescue and disaster management and other social activities such as food for the poor came later.

It is human nature, and how i tried to express it many times - Thailand is a developing nation with many problems. he foundations are improving in many ways. The medical training has improved over the years a lot. And yes, there is much to be desired, and most rescue workers would definitely agree with that.

[ColPyat]

ColPyat ,

your way out there on this one ,

there's no excuse for the actions in the OP ,

why you would even try to defend here is beyond me .

I do not excuse the actions, i try to explain why it comes to those incidents (i have done that in the thread i have provided). What i resent vehemently are the ill informed generalizations based mostly on rumor and not fact or personal experience.

According to those nasty posts here - i personally, and many friends of mine, would be some sort of ghouls stealing from the injured and the dead. I have never done that, and i have not seen my friends doing that in many years i have been with them. I know that this happens, but i do not excuse that.

I have been present at several incidents as described in the OP, and mostly it is a bit more complex than just people fighting over injured and corpses.

Edited September 17, 2007 by ColPyat

[Dupont]

Whilst the OP seems inexcusable, Colpyats views are valuable on here as the post was becoming a Thailand slagging off session again.

As in the UK, ambulance staff are under constant risk of attack and robbery from criminals of all shades anxious to get their hands on drugs etc.

I think Colpyat brought a modicum of balance to the debate. Would any of us fancy midnight calls in Bangkoks murkiest districts? I'd carry a gun for sure and this is why they are armed primarily. If they loose their heads and take pot shots at each other thats a discpiline matter and quite obviously wrong.

Many people think Nana, Cowboy and the like are the bad areas and cannot conceive of how rough the areas around Lat Phrao, Ramkaengheng and Morchit can be in the early hours.

Nana, Cowboy and Patpong are upmarket tourist areas.

[Mid]

I do not excuse the actions, i try to explain why it comes to those incidents (i have done that in the thread i have provided). What i do resent vehemently are the ill informed generalizations based mostly on rumor and not fact or personal experience.

accepted ,

it's up to these angles of mercy to clean up their acts , is it not ?

no mater what the explanation there is no excuse .

[ColPyat]

I do not excuse the actions, i try to explain why it comes to those incidents (i have done that in the thread i have provided). What i do resent vehemently are the ill informed generalizations based mostly on rumor and not fact or personal experience.

accepted ,

it's up to these angles of mercy to clean up their acts , is it not ?

no mater what the explanation there is no excuse .

Again - that is easier said than done.

There is a lot of cleaning up to be done in Thailand. Many of the wrongs in the rescue system lie with a succession of corrupt governments, a far too strong informal power system in the whole country, and these guys who have to work within that messy society. It is easy to blame them for many faults because they are visible, and it makes great headlines. But please, don't forget in which social context they have to function.

Why is nobody supplying them with the necessary equipment?

Many of the territorial conflicts happen because of a disinterested government, why does the government not step in before it comes to conflicts?

They have to cover for and work with a corrupt police and municipality, they have to cover corrupt practices of hospitals, they have to protect themselves when going in very dangerous neighborhoods, etc.

And in the end - they are always on the receiving end. Their many heroic actions are rarely given much attention.

[Mid]

expect it's not something you do for publicity ,

it's their house and passed time they cleaned it up ,

for the better of the country ,

one hopes that the buck stops here sign is found soon .

[TAWP]

It's there an overuse of the word 'heroism'? If your doing your job, be it drag dead bodies out of cars, guard a bank, patroll an armybase or sing karaoke, your not a hero. You are doing your job. Heroism is performing an act that goes above and beyond what is expected of you.

[ColPyat]

It's there an overuse of the word 'heroism'? If your doing your job, be it drag dead bodies out of cars, guard a bank, patroll an armybase or sing karaoke, your not a hero. You are doing your job. Heroism is performing an act that goes above and beyond what is expected of you.

In case of the volunteers - it is not their "job" (definition of "job" being something they get paid for), but social engagement which does go beyond what is expected from them in society.

[Acquiesce]

i knew this one would get tasty once the good colonel was dispatched.